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[Napoleonthechimp]

I just took it as her being dramatic about how she wants to abolish the system in place where certain families rule and have power and instead instate one where all people--common or otherwise--are equal.

The difference is that Essos is built on a slave/master culture. There the slaves will be quick to reject the established order, but in Westeros people have been loyal to their respective noble houses for many thousands of years, even way before the Targaryens arrived.

As Tyrion points out she's going to be in for a surprise if she thinks the people of Westeros will welcome her with open arms.

 

[Vagabundo]

The thing is Westeros doesn't need Dany, it just needs her Dragons.

Dany isn't even all that bright really. She's been lucky.

 

[Bko]

So Dany is ultimately aiming for a governance system akin to ancient China (no gentry but a sophisticated administration)? Fuck being Queen, let's be empress instead!

 

[Phat Michael]

How did the giant get away? i saw him walking through the water but pretty sure he wouldnt be able to get on the boat as he would be too heavy and the water would be too deep? Not sure if i missed anything at the end,

 

[diggmcbadass]

Yeah, I thought he was going to freeze the water so they could walk on it. That scene was intense though. Really gave them that "we're so fucked" moment.

Worst thing about that scene was all the intense stare downs that went on for five minutes, and when the camera zoomed out it showed that their boat was like ten feet from the shore. They could have rowed half a mile in that time.

How did the giant get away? i saw him walking through the water but pretty sure he wouldnt be able to get on the boat as he would be too heavy and the water would be too deep? Not sure if i missed anything at the end,

He could get on one of the ships I guess. They are surely big enough for him.

 

[Metal B]

Worst thing about that scene was all the intense stare downs that went on for five minutes, and when the camera zoomed out it showed that their boat was like ten feet from the shore. They could have rowed half a mile in that time.

I guess, they didn't wanted to row away to properly stop them, in the case they could swim or do other magical stuff.

 

[Zaph]

Yeah I just don't know about Dany. There's something wrong when I'm more looking forward to finding out what a fucking psycho like Ramsay is up to next, rather than one of the main players who is obviously in this until the end game.

Even having Tyrion by her side I don't think will help either - if he does join her in earnest, it'll almost feel like a betrayal to his character in order to advance the plot of another who's had so much time invested in them but still fails to be compelling in any way.

Or maybe GoT will completely pull the rug from under us and have Tyrion's arc be the slow realisation she's not worthy and the time of Targaryen is truly over?

 

[Kinyou]

How did the giant get away? i saw him walking through the water but pretty sure he wouldnt be able to get on the boat as he would be too heavy and the water would be too deep? Not sure if i missed anything at the end,

My guess is that he'll swim to one of the ships. Though a bit unsure considering the amount of armor he was wearing and the rough sea that was going on.

btw. Is this the last giant now?

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

Wun Wun!

Run Run!

Just watched Ex Machina recently and Wun Wun was a missed opportunity for Tormund to tell him to run run, lol.

 

[Dragon1893]

Worst thing about that scene was all the intense stare downs that went on for five minutes, and when the camera zoomed out it showed that their boat was like ten feet from the shore. They could have rowed half a mile in that time.

Yeah, I noticed that, it actually really bothered me. Was a weird oversight because it was really fucking obvious.

 

[Lazlo Woodbine]

btw. Is this the last giant now?

Yeah, was wondering this as well. Two other things I was wondering:

1) What was the significance of

Spoiler

the blade Jon picked up to kill he white walker with?

2) Are the white walker designs something well established before the TV show because they look remarkably like the drugur from Skyrim. I'm guessing this is just a well established fantasy lore design or something (with the blue emancipated frames and such) but it's just so similar I had to ask.

 

[Zaptruder]

Yeah, was wondering this as well. Two other things I was wondering:

1) What was the significance of

Spoiler

the blade Jon picked up to kill he white walker with?

2) Are the white walker designs something well established before the TV show because they look remarkably like the drugur from Skyrim. I'm guessing this is just a well established fantasy lore design or something (with the blue emancipated frames and such) but it's just so similar I had to ask.

There's a whole spectrum of undead in fantasy lore to draw upon.

Ranging from skeletons to zombies to revenants, wights, liches and vampires.

White walker bosses are akin to a Wight or a lich... high on the intelligence scale, not pretty, reanimated magical beings.

Infact, the white walkers that the bosses rez are called wights in GoT lore too.

Popular media could do well to mine a broader range of fantasy tropes. Although they're kinda trade marked by D&D, I quite like the idea of Beholders.... nasty floating eye balls that just destroy shit with magic and petrification.

 

[Metal B]

Even having Tyrion by her side I don't think will help either - if he does join her in earnest, it'll almost feel like a betrayal to his character in order to advance the plot of another who's had so much time invested in them but still fails to be compelling in any way.

Or maybe GoT will completely pull the rug from under us and have Tyrion's arc be the slow realisation she's not worthy and the time of Targaryen is truly over?

His character arc finished in the last session. His motivation was to be accepted by his father, which completely failed and backfired hard. Him being in the box for the whole trip, was a rebirth metaphor and the start of a his new arc.
Varys told him, that people like them will always only be on the side of rulers, but still be able to change the world for the better. Tyrion loves politics and he is completely fine in being a counsellor. He just finally needs someone, who he can truly believe in.

Dany's string of bad decision and failures was also important. She needed to learn, that you can't just rule with good attentions. She was surrendering herself with warriors, slaves and merchants, who have no idea of politics. Here story to this point shows, shows the importance of politic, if you want to manage people and power.

Tyrion's and Dany's arcs fit together like puzzles pieces. I also could see Snow being the last piece and becoming her admiral against the White Walkers.

The series will end like World War 2. Everybody uniting against one opponent. But just like history, the alliance will only last until they achieve their goal. Then the Known World will fall back to the power struggle of man.

 

[neorej]

Yeah, was wondering this as well. Two other things I was wondering:

1) What was the significance of

Spoiler

the blade Jon picked up to kill he white walker with?

2) Are the white walker designs something well established before the TV show because they look remarkably like the drugur from Skyrim. I'm guessing this is just a well established fantasy lore design or something (with the blue emancipated frames and such) but it's just so similar I had to ask.

The blade was a gift to Jon, it's a sword of legend and now Jon knows why; other weapons got smashed to bits when blocking that White Walker's spear-blade thing. Jon's sword stayed in one piece, and even killed the Walker. Which means Valyrian Steel can also kill the Walkers, not just Dragonglass.

 

[Tuffty]

One thing I don't get is that when Sam stabbed the walker with the Dragonglass dagger in Season 3, it disintegrated into dust afterwards. You would have thought if Jon's sword was also made of Dragonglass it would do the same? Is the difference in just the way it's made into Valyrian steel?

 

[Derwind]

I just took it as her being dramatic about how she wants to abolish the system in place where certain families rule and have power and instead instate one where all people--common or otherwise--are equal.

I took it the same way as well. A metaphor for changing the system that enables nobility to rule as they have for so long.

How she plans to accomplish that I don't know.

 

[soundscream]

Spoiler

The blade was a gift to Jon, it's a sword of legend and now Jon knows why; other weapons got smashed to bits when blocking that White Walker's spear-blade thing. Jon's sword stayed in one piece, and even killed the Walker. Which means Valyrian Steel can also kill the Walkers, not just Dragonglass.

This is all information provided in the show, no need to tag this.

 

[neorej]

One thing I don't get is that when Sam stabbed the walker with the Dragonglass dagger in Season 3, it disintegrated into dust afterwards. You would have thought if Jon's sword was also made of Dragonglass it would do the same? Is the difference in just the way it's made into Valyrian steel?

Perhaps a difference purely for dramatic effect. They pulled the same with the disintegrating vampires in the Blade movies.

This is all information provided in the show, no need to tag this.

Changed it, thanks.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

One thing I don't get is that when Sam stabbed the walker with the Dragonglass dagger in Season 3, it disintegrated into dust afterwards. You would have thought if Jon's sword was also made of Dragonglass it would do the same? Is the difference in just the way it's made into Valyrian steel?

Valyrian Steel...I suppose would be extremely different from dragonglass. After all the Steel survived the Doom.

 

[Jackpot]

The budget constraints make it seem very unlikely for there to be a Stannis/Bolton battle. Ramsey's "20 good men" thing pretty much cemented that for me. After Hardhome it's hard to complain, but Ramsay just surprise killing Stannis would be the most anticlimactic thing ever.

Pretty much. It's going to take place inside tents with no external shots and sound effects of fighting outside in the background.

 

[Dragon1893]

Pretty much. It's going to take place inside tents with no external shots and sound effects of fighting outside in the background.

Hopefully it'll be the other way around and Ramsey's arrogance will get him killed at Stannis' hands.

 

[neorej]

That final shot of the shore was beautifully done, BTW. Seeing all the fallen Freemen rise again, now in service of the White Walkers, with no sound but the howling wind... so awesomely done.

 

[Bananajama]

Lets just flip it on its head as everyones assuming Ramsays going to go in and be successful.

What if Stannis captures Ramsay and provides the witch with the Royal Blood she needs?

 

[Lyng]

Lets just flip it on its head as everyones assuming Ramsays going to go in and be successful.

What if Stannis captures Ramsay and provides the witch with the Royal Blood she needs?

Well Ramsay certainly deserves beeing burned alive.

 

[storafötter]

Honestly this episode was truly amazing for me during the last 15 minutes. I have actually gone tired of the battles sequences or duels of Game of Thrones since they can be pretty dull at times. I was honestly a bit bored while watching the wall get attacked last season. However this episode was unexpected, terrifying and pretty well done in comparison. We have waited for so long for some winter action and I am glad that they finally showed how serious the threat is and on what scale it is.

Lets just flip it on its head as everyones assuming Ramsays going to go in and be successful.

What if Stannis captures Ramsay and provides the witch with the Royal Blood she needs?

Honestly I would think if something happens to Ramsay it would be Theons fault. I would be curious if he will bring him fighting with him but I doubt it. I think it is more plausible what others have been thinking that Stannis gets killed before they even reach Winterfell.

 

[Prine]

That final shot of the shore was beautifully done, BTW. Seeing all the fallen Freemen rise again, now in service of the White Walkers, with no sound but the howling wind... so awesomely done.

Agreed. Really felt as if mankind days are numbered, the futility of survival was just being realised at that moment for all to see. Beautiful as it was harrowing.

Lets just flip it on its head as everyones assuming Ramsays going to go in and be successful.

What if Stannis captures Ramsay and provides the witch with the Royal Blood she needs?

WOW! That would be an incredible twist!

 

[KooopaKid]

Worst thing about that scene was all the intense stare downs that went on for five minutes, and when the camera zoomed out it showed that their boat was like ten feet from the shore. They could have rowed half a mile in that time.

lol yeah that jumped at me too. They should have been a lot further away from the coast.

 

[water_wendi]

Thats what the White Walkers are going to sound like when they finally have dialogue. When the Night King kills Jon hes gonna be all STAY COOL BIRD BOY.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Lets just flip it on its head as everyones assuming Ramsays going to go in and be successful.

What if Stannis captures Ramsay and provides the witch with the Royal Blood she needs?

In what universe is Ramsay of royal descent?

 

[Bananajama]

In what universe is Ramsay of royal descent?

Isn't he of the blood of House Bolton?
Is that not good enough?

 

[water_wendi]

Lets just flip it on its head as everyones assuming Ramsays going to go in and be successful.

What if Stannis captures Ramsay and provides the witch with the Royal Blood she needs?

i have a feeling something like this is going to happen. im feeling that Winterfell is going to fall to a surprise attack on its gates. Ramsay will elude capture because he is out on his mission.

edit
And by surprise i mean "Surprise! We have magic!" Davros is gonna be whining and bitching about how the snow is too deep or some shit and Mels is gonna bring out a genuine Red God miracle.

 

[Can Crusher]

Ramsey gets got, Sansa is used as leverage, Stannis kills everyone in house bolton.

 

[Chopper]

Isn't he of the blood of House Bolton?
Is that not good enough?

No?

 

[neoism]

The goofy CGI of the white walkers really ruins it for me. I also don't like long action sequences, but I'm glad that side of the story is progressing somewhat.

wow I thought the cgi looked good... the twitching and really fast speed was weird looking though...

 

[dead monkey uk]

Isn't he of the blood of House Bolton?
Is that not good enough?

If it is we have opened a 'Six degrees of Kevin Bacon' situation, where any of the main characters blood would do.

I think Stannis daughter will be his downfall, he is keeping her so close this season. The actress is doing such a great job of making her someone you want to protect.

 

[IAmRandom31]

I have a problem with the "break the wheel" statement. She claims to be all about creating a better world but her comment implies she's going to march into Westeros and smash everything to shit. How the hell does she think that is going to inspire the people there after that?

She's going to be hated.

But hey, we all know she's not going to end up Queen, right? Her entire purpose - whether she knows it or not - seems to be orientated around repelling the White Walkers (dragons and their fire being their Kryptonite).

" The Wheel " is meant as a representation of how the powerful will continually rise to power and then fall again, all the while rolling over and trampling those underneath them. She stated she is going to break that cycle entirely and destroy the wheel.

So basically she wants to destroy the powerful, set herself up as the most powerful to the point of never again being lowered. So there will never again be a powerful family attempting to take her down, thus starting a war and thus killing countless innocents.

As Tyrion said, it is a fine dream. But a dream nonetheless

 

[Vagabundo]

Two things I'm wondering about:

I know it was mentioned in the show at some point, but how long has it been since the last winter? I think Ned mentioned about there was one at some point when he was warden of the north.

During last nights episode, before the undead arrived at the gates, there was an avalanche or something in the distance. Anyone know what that was?

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Isn't he of the blood of House Bolton?
Is that not good enough?

This is how I picture the Lord of Light with blood.

"Hmmm, yummy yummy royal blood. Oh my, it seems I've run out of Robbert's bastard blood, time to go down into the blood cellar and see what Melasandra has brought over for me, it's been a while."

"Ramsey Bolton? She's giving me Bolton blood?

takes sip, instantly spits it out

"What in the fuck is this shit, I was promised royal blood, does she think I'm daft in the head. Ramsay Snow, a fucking bastard of a non royal family??" "You're fucked Melisandra! You here me, the next vision you see is my foot going up your ass!"

 

[Bananajama]

Do not see why it would be a problem

Obviously we disagree

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Do not see why it would be a problem

Obviously we disagree

You said royal blood.

There isn't anything to disagree about, Ramsey isn't royal blood.

 

[Bananajama]

You said royal blood.

There isn't anything to disagree about, Ramsey isn't royal blood.

Terminology

He's part of a great house

I think his blood will be perfectly fine

 

[Donos]

Worst thing about that scene was all the intense stare downs that went on for five minutes, and when the camera zoomed out it showed that their boat was like ten feet from the shore. They could have rowed half a mile in that time.

Yep, that scene was poorly done. Zoomed out and the boat looked like 2 meters from the shore. Said "wtf" out loud. Good for them that zombies don't use bows.

Rest of the action was good besides some obvious cuts in the scenes.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Yep, that scene was poorly done. Zoomed out and the boat looked like 2 meters from the shore. Said "wtf" out loud. Good for them that zombies don't use bows.

Rest of the action was good besides some obvious cuts in the scenes.

They let Sam live when they saw him cowering by himself.

They could have easily have thought that letting Jon live to witness the resurrection of the whole city/port to be far more valuable than him dying.

Ya know, mind games.

 

[Sheroking]

Terminology

He's part of a great house

I think his blood will be perfectly fine

They're not building Ramsay up to have Stannis of all people get him.

 

[Kinyou]

No?

I don't care. Let's squeeze him like a sponge and see if his blood does any good.

 

[neorej]

They let Sam live when they saw him cowering by himself.

They could have easily have thought that letting Jon live to witness the resurrection of the whole city/port to be far more valuable than him dying.

Ya know, mind games.

Fear is a powerful weapon and a useful ally.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Fear is a powerful weapon and a useful ally.

Seriously, most men after seeing that would go back to camp and be like, "Alright guys, pack it up, it's over. You're all relieved of duty, enjoy your lives while they last, ain't nothing stoppin this train".

Or rather, I'll use an old song I know.

But on the eve of great battle with the infantry in dream
The young general tossed in his sleep and wrestled with it's meaning
He returned from the night to just tell what he had seen
And walked slowly into the gate

All the men held tall with thier chests in the air
with the courage in their blood and a fire in their stare
and it was a gray morning and they all wondered how they would fare
Till the young crow told them to go home

He said,
I have seen The Others, and I have discovered that this fight is not worth fighting
And I've seen dead mothers and I will no other to ever go back up past that fucking wall because shit is fucked yo

Or something like that.

 

[HeisenbergLannister]

I kept waiting for Benjen Stark to show back up as a Walker there at the end.

 

[Funky Papa]

I kept waiting for Benjen Stark to show back up as a Walker there at the end.

Riding Nymeria for maximum shook.

 

[mokeyjoe]

Not sure if these zombies carry all the typical Undead characteristics.
One of these is that the Undead cannot cross water at all. (no swimming, no boats, no bridges)

Which maybe is why Jon and crew didn't row like crazy once they were on the water?
and
That they WW will now have to take the long way back around, buying Jon some time to get back to the Wall and prepare

That might be the case but there were plenty willing to wade around in the water. I just think they didn't follow them because:

1. Who knows how well they float - they're at varying stages of decay maybe some do and some don't. Also they were carrying metal weapons and in some cases armour, swimming would be awkward or they'd sink.

2. Can they even swim? Swimming wasn't a universal skill in medieval times, so probably not in GoT either. Even if some of them could when they were alive, would they know how now? And even a good swimmer would have difficulty outpacing a boat - it seems like a lost cause, especially to chase a handful of people - they would never have reached the rest of the ships. I doubt a living army would swim after an enemy either.

3. Even if they could swim and catch up to the boat, treading water while flailing around with an axe is not a particularly effective combat technique, they'd be sitting ducks. (Or floating ducks).

Swimming just didn't seem an realistic option - but I don't see why they can't just use boats. Unless there's some plot device of which I'm not aware. (Probably is.)

I'm more interested in what it takes to kill a wight. I doubt zombie rules apply (destroy the brain) as they're animated by magic and some of them are little more than skeletons. So at what point do they 'die'? Do you just have to hit them enough and they go down? Most of them are so fucked up anyway it'd be hard to envisage a 'killing blow'. Do you have to dismember or decapitate them?