"See you at the next Critical darlings that you hate or Widely panned games you like thread?"
Kotaku: A Lot Of People Are Getting Refunds On Steam
- Thread starter Hip Hop
- Start date
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Man I live and hope (even if its just for steam wallet cash), i would have said it will never come - but 2 weeks ago i said a decent refund policy on Steam will never come.
It would be kinda janky because of all the sales would really devalue the game, unless it's based on a % of the original price you paid. But even then.....'trading in' a game when it's on sale would be an issue.
Yeah it's the consumers fault they didn't watch a full playthrough and read reviews of a game they've never played before and they want to experience.
Maybe...just maybe...the game doesn't turn out how they wanted it to or how they thought it would?
TheSlySoul
Member
I must know how much is Bad Rats...
BassForever
Member
Does it? Thats cool I haven't tried to do any refunds yet as I've nothing that I've wanted to refund
Maintenance
Member
On PSN USA it was easier than it was with Steam, before this change. At least for me, I understand that Europe had it harder. XBL I don't know and Nintendo is Nintendo.
The Cowboy
Member
To be fair, Steam should have it listed that Bad Rats is exempt from the refund policy - if you have it your stuck with it
.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
I've only actually bought six games on Steam, everything else has been Humble Bundles.
NullPointer
Member
Good. A lot of people weren't able to get refunds before.
The sooner the wild west age of total control and zero responsibility for digital content and services ends the better.
The sooner the wild west age of total control and zero responsibility for digital content and services ends the better.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yup, it even has a disclaimer that the reason might be shared with the developer.
Gipsy Danger
Member
So what about my Driveclub situation? The only reason I don't like the game is because I hate the way the driving feels. Pretty sure I can't feel the game through a Let's Play or review, and as of right now there is no demo for it. But fuck me, right?
Jacksinthe
Banned
Developers that make short, focused games for a specific crowd are "tricking" people, eh? Fascinating.
You typically do not see these types of games marketed to anyone but those who have a spot for them.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Yeah but what if they don't like the controls? Like there's a lot of reasons that this is a poor argument but controls can't be understood from reviews or YouTube or any of that shit. And controls can ruin a game.
1. Since when are all niche games short?
2. If a person buying a niche game wants to return it, they obviously aren't interested in that niche. So yeah, if you had your way they'd be tricked into keeping a game they didn't want.
Glitchesarecool
Member
What is this thread?
For years, people have been decrying Steam's terrible policy of game returns, especially in situations where games are outright broken or unplayable. Steam introduces a method to get refunds on games, people decry Steam anyway.
Of course in the first week it's available it's going to be tested. Steam's also keeping track of how many refunds a person requests, and will revoke the refund privilege if it becomes clear that the system is being abused. It allows a person to buy a game worry free that they might be wasting their money on something that will sit in the library.
Origin often doesn't have a problem refunding your money for games that fall into their guidelines, but I don't see threads talking about how "damaging" a system that is.
For years, people have been decrying Steam's terrible policy of game returns, especially in situations where games are outright broken or unplayable. Steam introduces a method to get refunds on games, people decry Steam anyway.
Of course in the first week it's available it's going to be tested. Steam's also keeping track of how many refunds a person requests, and will revoke the refund privilege if it becomes clear that the system is being abused. It allows a person to buy a game worry free that they might be wasting their money on something that will sit in the library.
Origin often doesn't have a problem refunding your money for games that fall into their guidelines, but I don't see threads talking about how "damaging" a system that is.
Dr. Black Jack
Member
...which is why you do your goddamn research. No excuse.
Ah I see, some of the wording seemed like it was being used for games purchased far before the six month period. Just wish The Stomping Land was included in that time limit.
I'm all for refunding of the product. Its actually in our consumer protection laws here in Australia, and if worse came to worse we'd just go through our system to get a refund if Steam didn't offer one beforehand. Now its actually being handled properly I can go through Steam itself, making the issue far less of a headache. Then again, I'd only refund a game that is legitimately broken, and not just because "I didn't like it."
Felix Lighter
Member
Things haven't normalized yet. I'm sure refund rates are higher now than they will ever be again. I'm curious about how things will be handled during the Steam sale for those who buy a game before it gets a daily deal. I'm sure they will be able to get a refund but I can't imagine how hectic it will be on the back end.
I was referring to regular wallet purchases. But either way it doesn't hurt valve in any significant way. In fact there is always a chance you respend your money again on something Valve related instead. So they'll get even a bigger cut lol.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I think that specific crowd will keep the game? Because if they don't, then maybe the devs who made that game for that specific audience should rethink their strategy of making a game to an audience who won't appreciate it and will return it once done with the game.
Yeah fuck consumer rights! You have the internet, do your goddamn research on this game! If you can't decide whether you'll enjoy it or not by reading or watching someone else play, it's your own damn fault!</s>
Gipsy Danger
Member
Chances are that crowd will want to give the developer some money. The post you quoted is in response to devs who make games like what Jim Sterling keeps shouting about, pretty sure you know that though.
flaxknuckles
Member
Except for the fact that you can get a Steam refund to your original payment method.
CambriaRising
Member
You can keep saying that, but it still doesn't make it a valid argument against refunds.
What's with the attitude?
And yes, I've worked retail. It depends on the product type. I've returned plenty of products myself as well, and had some returns denied too.
My point is that this is not a god-given consumer right. Some of the times it should be allowed. Sometimes it shouldn't. Maybe it's fine for digital sales - I don't know. But it's not some written in stone thing that we should be entitled to having our mistakes erased every time we buy something and realize whoops, should have done more research.
Slackbladder
Member
Surely it's simple. If sales increase but returns increase then likely nothing changes. If sales remain the same but returns affect these sales then developers will lose revenue.
Of course if a developer makes a bad game their revenue should decrease. But I wonder what the percentage of their revenue comes from games sold to customers who never liked/played the game? Guess that's what they'll be losing.
Of course if a developer makes a bad game their revenue should decrease. But I wonder what the percentage of their revenue comes from games sold to customers who never liked/played the game? Guess that's what they'll be losing.
Sir Blaming
Member
Sometimes I wonder if valve actually took pr into account and was thinking about the bad press that they will get releasing a refund system.
That or they were just lazy.
It's a good thing that it's working as intended, and now I want to see how it will work on the coming weeks. I can see some way abuse the system, hopefully they do have a way to counter that.
That or they were just lazy.
It's a good thing that it's working as intended, and now I want to see how it will work on the coming weeks. I can see some way abuse the system, hopefully they do have a way to counter that.
Watching a let's play or reading about a game can give me an idea of whether I will like a game or not, but I can never be certain until I've played it. Being informed in important but it's no substitute for actual hands-on experience with the game itself.
This is so obvious. I can't understand why you are taking this absurd absolutist stance on this issue.
Beelzebufo
Banned
We need a GIf of that John Oliver line:
"'Why did you let us fuck you over?' Isn't a good excuse for fucking people over"
"'Why did you let us fuck you over?' Isn't a good excuse for fucking people over"
Gipsy Danger
Member
It's not, because doing research and actually playing the game isn't the same thing. Research doesn't always equate to your experience. Seems silly to say: too bad the research didn't line up with your end experience, deal with it.
Also, acting hostile towards consumers as if they are being lazy or are too stupid to do things in these instances, is bizarre.
Maintenance
Member
How can you do research on something that works for some people and doesn't work for others? How do you know if it will work on yours?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yeah, if a retail store doesn't allow returns, then that's where the consumer can stop shopping at that store and go elsewhere for their business. Unlike many retail stores, Steam has a major grip on the PC. No other service matches it. So to have a refund system is good, because that ensures it's continued success on PC.(Sorry if it came off like I had an attitude, it just makes me rustle that some people are against something good for consumers).
CambriaRising
Member
His answer will be "too bad, so sad"
Beelzebufo
Banned
He should have watched a YouTube video to learn if he liked the controls are not. Or read a thread on GAF to get a good feel for what the game feels like. No excuse.
lol
Joseph Merrick
Member
We're not getting fucked over anymore. We can get refunds.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Video games are an interactive medium. Watching someone play something on Youtube is not the same as playing it yourself in most case. It's entirely possible for someone to still be disappointed with a purchase even after doing their own research.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Dont make your game <2 hours of gameplay
Lower your game's price to combat refunds. Not a lot of people are going to refund 1 dollar games.
Early Access beware
Lower your game's price to combat refunds. Not a lot of people are going to refund 1 dollar games.
Early Access beware
Beelzebufo
Banned
Oh, exactly! That was directed towards the two people saying things like "why didn't you see if you liked the game or not before you bought it?"
Jacksinthe
Banned
Consumer rights are fine. I took offense to the "tricking" part which, by all accounts, the larger more homogenous games do.
See below so I don't type twice.
That crowd will, thats not my point. My point (sigh, again) was the "tricking" part - which is nowhere near the norm for niche titles who are more often than not aimed directly at people who enjoy them, not tricking the lumbering masses into buying something they have no clue about.
Edit: quoted and typed a response without seeing the previous edit.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
This is technically going to sort itself out over the next few weeks, no? Like, imagine I've sold 100,000 units total, and sell 50 units per week going forward. This is not atypical of a product that's basically done selling. It would be logical that over the first few weeks of refunds, I'd have "negative sales" as my existing install base take advantage of the refunds. So even if all 50 of my new sales keep the game, I'd still see relatively high return rates, right?
Not me, that's for damn sure. I'm staying the fuck out of the summer sale thread this year.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Too bad time and time again we've been shown that people don't give a shit about how good something is or how low the price is. For anything, not just video games.
Beelzebufo
Banned
It's 100% tricking haha. If your sales rely on selling your game to people who don't like it, there's some dishonesty going on.
If it's not the norm, then all niche titles aren't doomed to fail, like you insisted refunds will cause.
Crayon
Member
They could have gotten away with never allowing returns but it's a brilliant move in the long run and really benefits everyone.
I think this may also have something to do with steam machines. They're pretty console like until a one day a new game doesn't work. And it will happen. Letting someone have their money back almost ensures they'll turn around and spend it on something else in your store. Letting a user hang with a game that needs so much as an "easy fix omg 5 min thx google" would really hurt a steam branded console. The refund policy dodges the issue completely.
I think this may also have something to do with steam machines. They're pretty console like until a one day a new game doesn't work. And it will happen. Letting someone have their money back almost ensures they'll turn around and spend it on something else in your store. Letting a user hang with a game that needs so much as an "easy fix omg 5 min thx google" would really hurt a steam branded console. The refund policy dodges the issue completely.
GhostWriter24
Member
It's nice to want things.
If steam/valve has one failure for me it's their unwillingness to simply slog through a problem. Hire a bunch of customer reps and slog through consumer problems. Handle things case by case. Instead they would rather come up with a clever solution, for better AND worse.
Still 1 week is no basis for analysis at all for a scenario consumers have yet to see for ANY digital gaming content EVER on any sort of mass scale.
Devs are used to seeing their coffers filled and being able to count that as money earned. Now it gets more complicated for them than that.
Right now everyone is hitting the button just to see if it works. I wouldn't be surprised if many tested it just to see if it works. I had a few games I wanted to return but I bought them years ago and aren't eligible.
Ps to those talking about honesty, if honesty were a requisite of business we'd all be employed by the state.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I was responding to the 'Specific crowd' part, not the tricking part.
If you're making a game for a specific audience, then it should come to no surprise when someone outside of that audience dislikes the game. Like, I'm sure Life is Strange will tickle those who like adventure games, but if someone picks it up and it's not their type of game, they're not 'tricked', they probably didn't just expect what they were getting.