Kotaku: A Lot Of People Are Getting Refunds On Steam
- Thread starter Hip Hop
- Start date
Well shit. If I every go to the newest Marvel movie and it doesn't live up to the gaf hype, or my team loses at the baseball game I better get my damn money back.
Piracy says they are.
Pocky4Th3Win
Member
I don't have much faith in the average consumer. I worked retail in a game store and even for a mobile company, consumers will say anything to get what they want. They will always go the cheapest route and abuse whatever loopholes are available to get their way. The mentality given to them that they are always right in the end always hurts the retailer and in the long run the consumers again.
Valve should have better policies to prevent those games for ever being sold.
Are they? I feel there have been a ton of electronic stores closing up shop in the last 10 years. I feel that the ones still in business are making their profit through other means. Steam just has to start expanding their store beyond gaming.
Gipsy Danger
Member
The false equivalence is strong with this one.
I requested refunds for all 4 games I purchased on Steam this year (mostly buy stuff on GMG)
-Hunniepop- 14 minutes played (refund approved)
-Project Nimbus- 18 minutes played (truthfully said that the controller options were not acceptable)
-Besiege- 1 minute played
-Crypt of the Necrodancer- 27 minutes played (I hated it)
Plenty of games that I wish I had bought on Steam instead of other services, but lesson learned
-Hunniepop- 14 minutes played (refund approved)
-Project Nimbus- 18 minutes played (truthfully said that the controller options were not acceptable)
-Besiege- 1 minute played
-Crypt of the Necrodancer- 27 minutes played (I hated it)
Plenty of games that I wish I had bought on Steam instead of other services, but lesson learned
I totally think this is a problem, it should not be this easy
EmeraldSwords
Banned
Good. Hopefully devs start releasing good games instead of bad ones.
I'm sure that along with more people asking for refunds, there's also more people actually buying the games since they can try it without feeling like they wasted their money if they don't like it.
Instead of:
'I won't buy X because I might not like it.'
we have:
'I'll buy X, and if I don't like it I'll refund it.'
Instead of:
'I won't buy X because I might not like it.'
we have:
'I'll buy X, and if I don't like it I'll refund it.'
Cars usually have a cooling off period, most theaters will refund you if you leave the movie partway through and, yes, you can return food to the store if you don't like it.
I mean, fuck, do people really not know that they can return food to a store?
Woo-Fu
Banned
It isn't that simple. Take for instance books. How do you police something like that? How do you stop somebody from returning every book after they've read it because "I didn't like it."?
You return books if they're poorly bound or printed, manufacturing defects, whatever, not because you didn't particularly care for the content. I think games should be the same way. If it works, if it provides the features it promised, then it doesn't matter if I like it or not, I'm not returning it. It's my fault for not doing more research before making the purchase and I'm the one who should bear the burden of my own poor judgment.
How about food? Can I take an empty bag of chips to the store and ask for a refund because, "I didn't like them."? Sure, you can probably return a mostly full bag to the store because they're stale or whatever, but how about an empty one?
They know it but they typically only do it because the food is spoiled/stale/rotten/damaged/whatever, not because "I didn't like it."
For new cars in the US they do not. It is very rare to have this option.
NickFire
Member
This has to be the most pro-gamer decision in the history of gaming. Great day for gamers, and if devs and pubs don't like it sell somewhere else. Gamers have been getting hoodwinked for decades and it's about time a big player put a balance in to protect its consumers.
Edit - just because other industries may screw consumers over doesn't mean this decision is wrong. It just means devs and pubs need to put out working and good games or get hammered with refunds. And if you ask me, any dev who thinks this is a horrible an idea is probably making shit to begin with in the eyes of most consumers.
Edit - just because other industries may screw consumers over doesn't mean this decision is wrong. It just means devs and pubs need to put out working and good games or get hammered with refunds. And if you ask me, any dev who thinks this is a horrible an idea is probably making shit to begin with in the eyes of most consumers.
Entryhazard
Banned
US in general has horrible tutelage of consumers
You can actually contact the company that made your chips if they were spoiled or bad and they will send you coupons or a refund.
I don't agree with refunding "games you don't like" either but I don't think you can compare it to anything else. Games are their own category and with Steam greenlight and early access it really complicates the picture. Considering there is little control on Steam's side of the thing for EA and Greenlit games, this refund policy acts a way to counter scam imo. The burden is not always on the buyer for poor judgement but also on the store itself. When you buy a product in a retail store the store usually try to make sure the products are in working order or not spoiled if edible.
CambriaRising
Member
It absolutely is that simple. For books, games, movies, food, whatever.
CadetMahoney
Member
Woo-Fu
Banned
Maybe in a Utopia. Not in a world filled with assholes who will get over on everybody else any way they can.
What people who want to live in that Utopia don't realize is that business as we know it wouldn't even work in that world.
If such a system were implemented in this world businesses would implement and maintain do-not-sell-to databases. People with suspiciously---accurately or coincidentally---high return rates would end up on do-not-sell-to lists. "We're not going to sell anything to you because your history and our research show that you are most likely going to return it. Instead we'll save your time/money and ours and not sell anything to you. Have a nice day."
With brick&mortar returns are typically a bit of a hassle, that hassle naturally keeps most people in check. There just aren't that many ballsy assholes willing to walk into the same store over and over again returning the stuff they've already received full value in terms of use from. Not face to face. Do that enough times and a manager comes out and calmly tells you that they no longer want your business and do not expect to see you in their store again, at which point the proverbial jig is up. Let them do it painlessly over the 'net and the balance shifts.
You'd be surprised at what the dealer might be willing to do. There may be some financial penalty as the car can no longer be sold as new but that's no different than paying a restocking fee, albeit at a much higher ticket price.
EVERYBODY PANIC
I suppose it would be nice if Steam could lower than 2 hour limit for certain games or maybe restrict refunds on certain types of game... Maybe?
But really, refunds are still a novelty. Of course people will be trying out the system. Wait a few months before coming out with articles like this.
I suppose it would be nice if Steam could lower than 2 hour limit for certain games or maybe restrict refunds on certain types of game... Maybe?
But really, refunds are still a novelty. Of course people will be trying out the system. Wait a few months before coming out with articles like this.
Eyemus Lutt
Member
In your example of food you mention that you can return a mostly full item which is the exact same case as these games that have been played for sometimes minutes.
I'm not sure which country you're in, but in Australia consumers have a lot of rights and can get refunds on nearly anything for a period of time and a warranty for a set period as well. I don't see the issue of asking for your money back if the item is broken or you barely used it.
Yeah, I fully agree that some games should be protected from this if it's a special experience that lasts less than 2 hours. On the other hand, I think it will force devs to be honest about their game upfront.
PaulExcellent
Member
I actually forgot this was a thing until today.
I returned Dead Rising 2 because it runs terribly on my system and Transistor since I apparently already owned it. :/
I returned Dead Rising 2 because it runs terribly on my system and Transistor since I apparently already owned it. :/
Woo-Fu
Banned
I wasn't saying it was about games, though, was I? I was pointing out it wasn't as simple as games. What is your limiter on food. It can't be time because I can eat a bag of chips pretty damn quick. How many chips do I get to eat before determining whether or not "I like them."? How are you going to determine how many chips I ate?
I'm not complaining about the return policy on steam. I'm saying such policies don't work equally as well for all types of products and I was doing so in a reply to somebody who seemed to believe they would.
And again, you're talking about returns for something that is broken, which I covered in my statement. I'm not saying there is a problem with returning broken things. I'm saying there is a problem with returning some sorts of products simply because, "I didn't like it."
I thought I was pretty clear about all of that, I guess not.
Of course refunds are going to spike within the first few weeks of the option being available to users.
With that said, I really hope this pushes devs (indie devs in particular) to put out games in a more complete state, and actually work on making a quality product (I'm looking at you, Stainless Games ... Goddamn lucky I couldn't get a refund for Carmageddon Reincarnation <-<
With that said, I really hope this pushes devs (indie devs in particular) to put out games in a more complete state, and actually work on making a quality product (I'm looking at you, Stainless Games ... Goddamn lucky I couldn't get a refund for Carmageddon Reincarnation <-<
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
People are comparing 180 days of potential refunds vs a few days of sales. Of course, the refund percentages are going to seem high in that kind of comparison. 13 refunds over 3 days when you sold 18 copies that day sounds high. 13 refunds covering a period of 180 days during which you've sold 1,000 copies is much less impressive.
For us, Day 1 Refunds > Day 2 Refunds > Day 3 Refunds. They're dropping each day and they're dropping fast. I don't know when the refunds/day will stabilize, but it's way too soon to draw much of any conclusion.
For us, Day 1 Refunds > Day 2 Refunds > Day 3 Refunds. They're dropping each day and they're dropping fast. I don't know when the refunds/day will stabilize, but it's way too soon to draw much of any conclusion.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
A few assholes being crazy enough to do nothing but 2 hour speedruns of "free" games is a very small price to pay for giving the vast majority of consumers a good safety net in their digital purchases. People are seriously overestimating how generous the limitations for this service is.
Eyemus Lutt
Member
I wasn't necessarily talking only about broken items, but items that don't work for your setup like a Video card or monitor that works fine but not compatible with your setup so you return it, or clothes that don't fit. However you can also return clothes if you don't like like them within a certain time which doesn't really apply to food because you're returning less than you were given so in that case you can only return it if there is something wrong with the food. I would put games much closer to clothes than food in refund policy.
Yes I would be very surprised, but either way I'd highly suggest getting this in writing. Once you sign the paper work you are shit out of luck and I'd be very surprised if they did this and you are financing your car.
I'm sure it happens, and I am for it happening. I just believe it happens in a very small amount of cases, and I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a car and expect to return it without getting a "cooling down period" in writing.
Eh, I don't really consider satisfaction guaranteed as some inalienable human right.
That said, I don't really have a problem with Steam allowing refunds. It seems like a step in the right direction, and until there's more concrete evidence that this move actively hurts developers, I'm okay with it.
OH MY FUCKING GOD I WILL GET MY MORTAL KOMBAT REFUND *---*
I really don't agree with this. A purchase isn't a guarantee of quality, it's a guarantee of functionality. The agreement upon purchase is that for $x, you will get a functioning product. If it doesn't function you should absolutely feel entitled to a refund, but if you simply didn't like it I don't think a refund should be an absolute expectation. That creates a system where creators aren't allowed to set the value of their works because consumers can simply decide they don't agree with the value, post consumption, and take the money back from the creator. Then the result is the creator basically fulfilling their end of the obligation and the consumer not.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Wait till a large Triple A title comes out and refunds are at 30% or higher due to GOTY edition being inevitable.
You're going to see an even darker side of the consumer now.
Buy a game, start a timer, quit at 1:59:00, ask for a refund, wait till Steam sale, rinse and repeat.
Small indie games will not profit or they'll get even less now.
You're going to see an even darker side of the consumer now.
Buy a game, start a timer, quit at 1:59:00, ask for a refund, wait till Steam sale, rinse and repeat.
Small indie games will not profit or they'll get even less now.
Allforce
Member
This is essentially what I look at the policy as, a safety net to demo a game on my laptop and see if it'll even run properly. Been burned once and that was one too many.
I've had a Steam account for like 10 years, and up until last week when I bit the bullet and spend 1.99 on some arcade shmup it had been a good 2-3 years since I bought anything at all. Now I can at least give games a shot and if they don't work I get my money back.
ThatStupidLion
Member
im guessing a lot of people are buying the game to try like a demo and are returning it after seeing what it's all about
I wish there was more emphasis on this in the articles I'm seeing, as well as a focus on Valves promise to prevent abuse by carefully monitoring system usage over time.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Got a refund for killing floor 2 (early access, should have waited for full version)
Bought a $28 M4A1S skin.
Valve wins in all this, i guess.
Bought a $28 M4A1S skin.
Valve wins in all this, i guess.
All we're seeing is the dumber side of the gamer with all these theories.
Why would this person in your scenario buy a game, play for 2 hours, then refund and wait when they could just as easily pirate the game and play it without restrictions?
texhnolyze
Banned
You think Valve will do nothing to those abusers?
A pattern that is incredibly easy to pick up on using data analysis, and incredibly stupid on the users behalf because they could just type the game name in to google search and download it for free instead. Why the hell would you risk damaging your steam account and putting money up front if your goal was to play free games?
We need to stop assuming all players are evil assholes, this is the very mindset that has dominated AAA for years and caused so many problems.
Cave Johnson
Member
There are situations where you can buy a whole pack that is essentially cheaper or as remotely cheap than to buy them individually. This was the case with Civ4. I would definitely call for a refund for "single-copy" duplicates I don't need simply because STEAM REFUSES to let me trade these useless copies.
Uh oh. This will make a lot of people more comfortable with going digital. And cheap mofos will abuse the living daylights out of it. It's a good thing for sure but we'll soon see why we can't have good things, and so will valve, expecting a hardcore scaling back of these policiea. 2 weeks is longer than any brick and mortar company will give for any software.
Netherscourge
Banned
The Steam Summer Sale is going to be interesting with this.
No it's not. It's not like 99% of people will ever actually play what they buy.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
*sigh*
Once again, it's not the devs fault if you personally do not enjoy their game.
Refunds do not exist to "teach devs a lesson".