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[staticneuron]

I think people are saying they would have liked to know that on stage (even though it really makes zero difference).

But it's also obvious why Sony didn't do that. That looks like really shitty PR to bring someone out on stage and say "hey, we don't really believe in this guy's project, but if you guys show tangible interest, we're down!" So they bit their tongue until they could make a positive announcement.

It really didn't need to be said. If you go to the kickstarter page and say the limit at 2 million then anyone who is even the least bit informed about video games would know that you cannot fund that type of game with 2 million.

I'm sorry but this is completely and utterly unacceptable. Instead of Sony taking the risk you want to pass on that risk to the gamers?

2 million is passing the risk? Sony only publishes IP they own. So in an instance like this where they most likely will not own the IP you can be sure they are only "helping" because they would not fully fund an IP they do not own. They have done it a few times in the past but iirc it didn't work out to well for them.

For the kickstarter to happen, they were already involved with the game. The business world operates based on things called contractual obligations.

What are you talking about? Any individual or company can post a project on kickstarter. Doesn't mean there is any involvement from an a partner.

1. How do you know that there was a contract instead of a gentleman's agreement? How do you know that there wasn't a formal contract until "after" the goal was met? If you are adamant about that being true can you provide proof?

2. A conditional promise of support is just that. There is no support until something is meet. That means no actual involvement on sony side, they aren't helping these people do anything until they hit a goal.

Since you seem to have difficulty understanding a binary choice let me show you a picture.

So when the toggle switch is on that means it cannot be off at the same time. Now the promise is that if you switch a toggle to the off position then it will turn the device off. That means if the toggle remains in the on position, despite any legal documents to the or promises of agreed behavior when toggle is turned off, that the only thing that remains true is the device is on.

 

[vcc]

At the very least it's deliberate misdirection, which I don't see as very distinct from what we're talking about.

Adam Boyes: Hey guys, here is a message we're paying $250 per second to show you; but it's totally not related to us and we're totally not going to invest in it if you guys respond well. Here is Yu Suzuki!

[Later]

Adam Boyes: Well, they fell for it. Step 1 is complete. They've backed it for 2m. We will take that 2m, and invest a further 30m in development funds and 15m in advertising and make Shenmue 3. Which will be the most diabolical mid budget trap in the universe! It will finish the story of shenmue 3; and it'll be somewhat mediocre. Literally hundreds of thousands will be mildly disappointed. muahahahahahah

and w'ell lose $25m because they all bought it on PC durign a 90% off steam sale.

 

[Littlefang]

Are you guys being serious? Sony's support most likely depended on the success of the kickstarter meaning if it didn't hit a certain goal they would not get involved with the game.

It is as simple as that. When they helped announced it they were not involved.

Why is that a hard concept to grasp. Do you need some sort of a graph or infographic? Even if the deal was, if you hit a goal we will help, that still means.... they weren't involved until the starter hit the goal. It is a binary choice.

But that's the thing, when they announced it they clearly had a deal to fund the game if it was successful on kickstarter. It's not like they were all oh we're so happy you made a kickstarter we will help you market it! And then retroactively decide to fund it. This was a business deal that was made prior to the announcement.

The Kickstarter has been funded, the game will be made, and those who wanted the game are happy. If you're not a fan and don't like it, ignore it and stop overreacting (as you say so yourself). They're not forcing you to donate. If for some reason the game fails to be made, you lose nothing. The fans who participated in the Kickstarter knew the risk when they pledged. At least they had a chance to do something about it than not at all.

Okay I get that and maybe that's okay then if people are pledging for the chance to get a game made. I guess I probably have some fundamental disagreement with what kickstarter has evolved into.

No offense, but I feel like you overreacted and now you keep talking in circles. You say a game like COD won't ever be Kickstarted...Shenmue 3 isn't anything near COD. It's a niche game. You mention Deadly Premonition...a niche game. The precedent that was set, and NOT by Sony, is that some projects on Kickstarter are for showing a publisher/manufacturer that there is a concrete and identifiable baseline amount of consumers for a product. It's for niche games and risky projects. It's ridiculous to blame Sony for using Kickstarter for a very risky product.

Plus, I'm sure there is this thing called a contract. Pretty commonplace in business transactions. Sony is very, very unlikely to get upset with Yu and just take their metaphorical ball and go home. Not only would it be a breach on contract, but it would engender a tremendous amount of ire.

All of these things you are "worried" about are illogical on many levels. Sony announced The Last Guardian, a game that has been in development hell since 2007. They even had the director, who I believe quit the game and was brought back as a contractor (or some other variation), sitting near the front row so they could give him his spotlight.

I think you really need to reflect on why you are being so cynical and paranoid.

I'm probably being cynical because of being burned with games being vastly different from their initial concept. But I really don't think that niche games should all be funded by kickstarter or for them to be denied funding if they don't have a kickstarter first. I wouldn't be so worried but the Bloodstained kickstarter was very recent as well.

 

[kuroshiki]

Nah MS blow back would be WAY WAY worse. Most people are aware Sony have recently faced financial hardships, losings billions upon billions of dollars for several years now and had their credit downgraded to junk status. MS on the other hand has the cash on hand to fund a GTA budgeted Shenmue 1000 times over.

and instead MS spent 400 million dollars for NFL exclusive deal.

So please, MS fanboys, don't blame sony for this. Blame your overlord.

 

[It's Reyn Time!]

God, everything about this is just... slimy. I can't think of a better word for it.

I really wish I could get my hate on, but hey, Shenmue 3. Here's hoping it's true to the originals.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I'm sorry but this is completely and utterly unacceptable. Instead of Sony taking the risk you want to pass on that risk to the gamers?

Why should Sony take the risk from a IP that is not there own and has sold badly twice before ?

 

[Vaga]

You have a game. Its fans have been begging for it for, what, 14 years. You say okay, to do this, you, you and you, we need your money. You? We dont need yours, even if you were as passsionate about seeing the series return as the rest of them. Why? Because we made a deal with a single publisher who , by the way, dont give a shit about whether this game returns unless you own their console and pony up the cash up front to ensure they get a return.

It is hilarious to me that Sony are being held up as heroes of the hardcore gaming community or, better yet, champions of the hardcore Shenmue fans. This is just good old fashioned dirty business. As usual.

Me? I'm no longer a diehard shenmue fan per this community because i wont play ball, pay for a ps4, and turn around and hand money over to reward shady behind the curtain deals

One of the dumbest posts I've read in long time.

 

[BuffetChamp]

This confirms no Xbox then

PC version will do just fine then.

 

[TrutaS]

I don't understand the outcry.. pay for the digital release if you like and get the game for cheaper, knowing you helped make it happen. Also I'm glad Sony is helping out, it means the game will run better and look better than it would otherwise.

 

[Polari]

I'm stoked. $2 mil was never going to make Shenmue III. If a bunch of pre-orders is what Sony needs to get on board, so be it.

 

[Aenima]

You have a game. Its fans have been begging for it for, what, 14 years. You say okay, to do this, you, you and you, we need your money. You? We dont need yours, even if you were as passsionate about seeing the series return as the rest of them. Why? Because we made a deal with a single publisher who , by the way, dont give a shit about whether this game returns unless you own their console and pony up the cash up front to ensure they get a return.

It is hilarious to me that Sony are being held up as heroes of the hardcore gaming community or, better yet, champions of the hardcore Shenmue fans. This is just good old fashioned dirty business. As usual.

Me? I'm no longer a diehard shenmue fan per this community because i wont play ball, pay for a ps4, and turn around and hand money over to reward shady behind the curtain deals

The amount of salt in this post gave me high blood pressure.

 

[dark10x]

I hope this means a physical PS4 release. This is not a game I want to own digitally.

 

[Felessan]

I'm sorry but this is completely and utterly unacceptable. Instead of Sony taking the risk you want to pass on that risk to the gamers?

Because there is a simple choice - whether there will be no game at all or consumers will share a tiny bit of a risk.
It's a risky project, and Sony understand this. So they do share it with some hardcore fans and I see no wrong in it. You are not actually forced to participate.

I don't want the game to fail, but it's basically inevitable for a game that is funded this way (a small portion by kickstarter and a large portion by a single external source) is going to fail. And why should consumers be so accepting for this to happen?

Because game will be made (probably) in this case and will not be made (surely) otherwise?

And clearly this is not a huge issue if this only occurs with a handful of games, but what is stopping this from being commonplace in a few years?

For obvious reasons it doesn't work for every project, only for small particular part of gaming franchise. And for them - I see no wrong if it will become commonplace, it's better than all those franchise will be left to oblivion (as it is now).
Game (or developer) should have established history and it should be relatively small (there is no point in KSing CoD or Uncharted, it will give your nothing but eat away some profits) - so it's a mid-tier games. Those now considered to be a very risky investment (and thus largely ignored) and I see no problem if KS will easy things a bit for them.

 

[dracula_x]

I'm sorry but this is completely and utterly unacceptable. Instead of Sony taking the risk you want to pass on that risk to the gamers?

What about PC then? Ok, let's imagine, there's no Kickstarter campaign and, as a result, no Shenmue III on PC. Are you fine with that?

And "risk", lol. Kickstarter campaign only is a risk. With Sony there's no risk or, at least, the risk at minimum. They fund the rest and this is a good thing.

 

[staticneuron]

But that's the thing, when they announced it they clearly had a deal to fund the game if it was successful on kickstarter. It's not like they were all oh we're so happy you made a kickstarter we will help you market it! And then retroactively decide to fund it. This was a business deal that was made prior to the announcement.

Which means at the point in time before kickstarter was launched. They were not involved. If their involvement was conditional then you are proving the point.

 

[nasax]

Gotta love some of the responses. Do people not realize that NOBODY touched this IP for the last FOURTEEN years? I wonder fucking why. Sony will probably lose money on this shit lol.

Shh... don't let the others hear you. Don't you know that Sony is a billion dollar conglomerate just wanting to make millions of dollars in investments on a product that has failed in the past just to appease a certain niche/cult following fanbase.

 

[Jabba]

Gotta love some of the responses. Do people not realize that NOBODY touched this IP for the last FOURTEEN years? I wonder fucking why. Sony will probably lose money on this shit lol.

Yeah, imo the 14 years part is crucial and likely not being weighed fairly in some responses.

 

[thekiddfran]

This fucking thread man:

Why can't people be happy this game is becoming a reality thanks to Sony?

 

[leroidys]

It really didn't need to be said. If you go to the kickstarter page and say the limit at 2 million then anyone who is even the least bit informed about video games would know that you cannot fund that type of game with 2 million.



2 million is passing the risk? Sony only publishes IP they own. So in an instance like this where they most likely will not own the IP you can be sure they are only "helping" because they would not fully fund an IP they do not own. They have done it a few times in the past but iirc it didn't work out to well for them.



What are you talking about? Any individual or company can post a project on kickstarter. Doesn't mean there is any involvement from an a partner.

1. How do you know that there was a contract instead of a gentleman's agreement? How do you know that there wasn't a formal contract until "after" the goal was met? If you are adamant about that being true can you provide proof?

2. A conditional promise of support is just that. There is no support until something is meet. That means no actual involvement on sony side, they aren't helping these people do anything until they hit a goal.

Since you seem to have difficulty understanding a binary choice let me show you a picture.



So when the toggle switch is on that means it cannot be off at the same time. No the promise is that if you switch a toggle to the off position then it will turn the device off. That means if the toggle remains in the on position, despite any legal documents to the or promises of agreed behavior when toggle is turned off, that the only thing that remains true is the device is on.

Thanks for the completely condescending bullshit "explanation" that just underlines your willful ignorance on the issue. It's not which position the lightswitch is in, it's the existence of the lightswitch. Thanks for doing everything in your capacity to turn this thread into a console warrior flamewar.

I've been trying to conduct this discussion so far in a constructive and polite manner, but at this point I'm about to Segata Sanshiro the fuck out of here.

 

[Caipirinha]

Honestly don't know on what planet the people ITT that think anything unfair has just occurred are living on, I guess one in which standard modern business practices, and Kickstarter, does not exist?!

There is no issue here, and if you're salty it's not coming to your console then you knew from the moment the KS was announced that you would be investing in a PS4 and PC release.

The KS was a litmus test. It passed it. Thanks to that we are now getting a major mainstream Shenmue 3.

 

[GavinGT]

Sony found a way to get a risky game made in a less risky fashion. I have zero problem with their approach.

We're getting Shenmue 3, and we have Sony to thank for making it possible. That's where this starts and stops for me.

 

[dark10x]

Sony found a way to get a risky game made in a less risky fashion. I have zero problem with their approach.

We're getting Shenmue 3, and we have Sony to thank for making it possible. That's where this starts and stops for me.

I'm there 100%.

 

[4Tran]

What if bloodstained was revealed to be konami published after it reached it's goals? As a backer I would be fucking pissed. Even worse, what if you had kicked a couple hundred or even thousand to your dream game only to find out once it reaches its goals that it is funded by a publisher with easily enough money to avoid needing a kickstarter- moreover one that stands to gain a lot of money from its success?

Welcome to how Kickstarter works. Almost all big Kickstarter projects are funded by outside sources usually equaling if not greatly exceeding the amount garnered by the actual campaign. Kickstarter is good for a certain level of funds, but any more ambitious games have to get the rest of their money somewhere. Investors are a lot more willing to invest when they're sure that there's a certain amount of interest in a title, and a successful Kickstarter is a good indicator of that. In your example, Bloodstained is probably owned and published by Deep Silver, so are you upset?

 

[kuroshiki]

Thanks for the completely condescending bullshit "explanation" that just underlines your willful ignorance on the issue. It's not which position the lightswitch is in, it's the existence of the lightswitch. Thanks for doing everything in your capacity to turn this thread into a console warrior flamewar.

I've been trying to conduct this discussion so far in a constructive and polite manner, but at this point I'm about to Segata Sanshiro the fuck out of here.

Please never come back. for past couple of pages number of ppl tried to tell you that Sony and Yu has done nothing wrong and we are getting shenmue 3 after 14 fucking years, and you just went around circle and circle.

That's not a constructive by any chance, that's just trolling.

 

[Bl@de]

People bring console wars and salt into a thread about a niche game that hasn't been made for 14 years (!) because nobody thought it would sell? Now Sony helps (but at the same time wants confirmation if someone really has interest) and people get mad? Lol ... fuck off. Really ... some really sad answers here. If it were up to those people they rather want Ubisofts Assassins Creed 10 AAA tower climb simulator instead of a classic.

 

[mrklaw]

I don't get it. for those that just backed it as a basic level, you're getting the game for $29. And by backing he game you proved to Siny that this is something worth investing in - a property that has been beloved but financially nobody had been able to make it work for the last 14 years. So what exactly does anyone feel is bad about this?

How about oculus rift, where we literally funded the production of a proto that then made the creator a billionaire?

 

[Discotheque]

lol they literally took the the definition of "voting with your wallet" to heart

i want the first two games as a playable port (don't need to be remastered if they don't want to) but i wonder if that would even be possible or if it might get tied up in a rights dispute with MS or something.

 

[leroidys]

Please never come back. for past couple of pages number of ppl tried to tell you that Sony and Yu has done nothing wrong and we are getting shenmue 3 after 14 fucking years, and you just went around circle and circle.

That's not a constructive by any chance, that's just trolling.

and instead MS spent 400 million dollars for NFL exclusive deal.

So please, MS fanboys, don't blame sony for this. Blame your overlord.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Nah MS blow back would be WAY WAY worse. Most people are aware Sony have recently faced financial hardships, losings billions upon billions of dollars for several years now and had their credit downgraded to junk status. MS on the other hand has the cash to fund a Quadruple-A GTA budgeted Shenmue 1000 times over. MS have literally spent as much on disposable CG E3 reveal trailers the last 2 years alone to fund what Sony/Yu have agreed to.

You misinterpreted what I said.

I am saying most who are negative in here would have a different tune, and I admitted there would be blow-back because of how rich MSFT is from the other camp.

Point is MSFT had ample opportunity to. Hell, Peter Moore had Shenmue 2 on his cover letter and resume for MSFT. So if these people are pissed, it should be a different narrative than what is really playing out here.

I personally think this is a healthy for the business if we are to expect a constant flow of games we want from all facets of genres and niches.

Sony found a way to get a risky game made in a less risky fashion. I have zero problem with their approach.

We're getting Shenmue 3, and we have Sony to thank for making it possible. That's where this starts and stops for me.

Yep. I am not even a Shenmue fan (never played it, since I sold the DC before it hit), and I think this is a good thing for gamers as a whole.

 

[Undead]

I am seriously lost how people could be so stupid as to think that Sony wouldn't be funding this, considering it was announced at their conference but it's the idiocy that a game like Shenmue 3 could be made for only $2m that I really cannot get over.

 

[PdotMichael]

For the kickstarter to happen, they were already involved with the game. The business world operates based on things called contractual obligations.

If Sony was already involved and is already the main publisher for the game then it would no fucking sense to use Kickstarter in whatever ways. They are selling the full game for $30 (worldwide even - ignoring the higher European price) and giving up additional 5% of the Kickstarter money.

 

[Paz]

I'm there 100%.

Yep me too.

So incredibly happy that this is happening.

 

[kuroshiki]

lol they literally took the the definition of "voting with your wallet" to heart

i want the first two games as a playable port (don't need to be remastered if they don't want to) but i wonder if that would even be possible or if it might get tied up in a rights dispute with MS or something.

Ask sega, not ms. and given sega's recent track record I don't think it will come true.

 

[mrklaw]

I hope this means a physical PS4 release. This is not a game I want to own digitally.

I'd say that would be guaranteed now. Sony will market this like one of their big releases. It'll get the full treatment.

lol they literally took the the definition of "voting with your wallet" to heart

i want the first two games as a playable port (don't need to be remastered if they don't want to) but i wonder if that would even be possible or if it might get tied up in a rights dispute with MS or something.

This is a great pont. If the massive reaction to the kickstarter proves the value of Shenmue to Sony, then they should also bring remasters of I&II because they have never been in a Sony console before.

 

[staticneuron]

Thanks for the completely condescending bullshit "explanation" that just underlines your willful ignorance on the issue. It's not which position the lightswitch is in, it's the existence of the lightswitch. Thanks for doing everything in your capacity to turn this thread into a console warrior flamewar.

I've been trying to conduct this discussion so far in a constructive and polite manner, but at this point I'm about to Segata Sanshiro the fuck out of here.

Again

Which means at the point in time before kickstarter was launched, they were not involved. If their involvement was conditional then you are proving the point.

Just stating they will get involved if a target is met doesn't by itself mean they are actually involved. That is totally illogical. This is similar to Star Citizen where they supposedly needed to meet a goal to take to investors. When they surpassed that in spades they decided to forgo the investors and tackle the entire release themselves. As with many other projects, there doesn't mean there is a firm contractual agreements even if the promise is shown to exist.


Again if you have proof to the contrary by all means..... show us.

EDIT: To be more exact even if the lightswitch exist that is not a guarantee that it will be toggled on or off. Someone could create the lightswitch, leave it the on position, put it in a vault, and dump it in the middle of the ocean. Any considerations or promises for the switch being turned off will be for naught if no one ever turns the switch off. And I don't know why I am getting blamed for console warrior anything because I have not mentioned a console in my posts. Getting a bit "too" defensive are we?

 

[RealityCheque]

Really not a fan of this approach.

 

[vcc]

I thought you were done with this after the condescension?

 

[Captain Smirk]

Can understand both sides of the argument but when it's over a game like Shenmue which has been idle for the last 14 years...I've gotta support the Sony backing.

 

[kuroshiki]

I thought you were done with this after the condescension?

lol. you really believed it?

 

[Littlefang]

Read this carefully: the risk for consumers who back a Kickstarted game is exactly the same as one Kickstarted with help from a publisher. You pledge money and hope the game is made. Stop being delusional! If Shenmue is cancelled despite Sony's help, the people who pledged money will get nothing just the same as if Sony were never involved. And since Yu owns the rights to make the game, he presumably could do another Kickstarter and ask for enough money to finish the game.

Serious question here, do you own any Sony consoles?

I currently own a ps2, ps3, and ps4. And I honestly doubt that everyone would be totally accepting if the game fell through. Fuck people get angry at the changes made between e3 trailers and the final game haha. I honestly hope you guys end up with an awesome game and it sells well and I hope that the amount of games funded this way doesn't increase exponentially!

 

[Sjefen]

Damn I walked right into a salt mine. I thought people would be over the moon Sony is funding development, I know I am. Sony can help in so many ways.

 

[Aenima]

I'm sorry but this is completely and utterly unacceptable. Instead of Sony taking the risk you want to pass on that risk to the gamers?

What risk for the gamers? If u backed it and the game for some reason cant get finished, everyone will be refunded. It has happened before, dunno if was in kickstart or other crowdfunding service but the backers of a project that achieve a goal are protected by law. Thers absolutly no risk for the backers.

 

[Zerojul]

Sony found a way to get a risky game made in a less risky fashion. I have zero problem with their approach.

We're getting Shenmue 3, and we have Sony to thank for making it possible. That's where this starts and stops for me.

This a hundred times.
Fans have been waiting for this for fourteen fucking years. You'd think people would be happy to be able to play the damn game, but noooo we have to read about scam and outrage and indignity and shit. It's depressing.

 

[kuroshiki]

I currently own a ps2, ps3, and ps4. And I honestly doubt that everyone would be totally accepting if the game fell through. Fuck people get angry at the changes made between e3 trailers and the final game haha. I honestly hope you guys end up with an awesome game and it sells well and I hope that the amount of games funded this way doesn't increase exponentially!

If this gauging interest thru kickstarter is only way to bring impossible dead franchises into reality like:

Suikoden 6
Xenogears 2
Zone of Enders 3
Silent Hills

and countless others...

THEN I HOPE BY ALL MEANS THIS KIND OF SHIT INCREASE EXPONENTIALLY.

I rather take games than no games at all.

 

[Zerojul]

If this gauging interest thru kickstarter is only way to bring impossible dead franchises into reality like:

Suikoden 6
Xenogears 2
Zone of Enders 3
Silent Hills

and countless others...

THEN I HOPE BY ALL MEANS THIS KIND OF SHIT INCREASE EXPONENTIALLY.

I rather take games than no games at all.

Amen.

 

[rouken]

they did Kickstarter to gauge interest or in more true to life reasoning, they want guaranteed money.

 

[leroidys]

I thought you were done with this after the condescension?

lol. you really believed it?

I said "I'm about to Segata Sanshiro out of here" and then posted a Segata Sanshiro gif.

Shenmue fans that don't know who Segata Sanshiro is? OK.

 

[Lord Panda]

Really not a fan of this approach.

What's the alternative?

 

[kuroshiki]

What's the alternative?

thousand times this. lol.

Amen.

Yeah man.

 

[Pez]

Chrono Trigger Remake/sequel on Kickstarter, please.