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[cajunator]

I'm finished speaking on the matter because really it doesn't affect me much and I came here with the intent of a sober discussion from a Christian perspective and how it's good that government is separate from religion. But it's a topic by which many people become emotionally charged and can't really have a rational exchange over.

The thing that is really going to end the division and hate is the ability to stay calm when expressing ourselves, not one side forcing themselves on the other.

But it does affect many people in the world. I have my own crosses to bear and this is not one of them for me either personally, but I know how people feel and that you cannot simply tell someone to stop being who they are because you do not agree with it.
What you also cannot do is force people to live a lie and try to mold themselves into a heterosexual lifestyle that you agree to, when their entire being tells them to do otherwise.

 

[slit]

I'm finished speaking on the matter because really it doesn't affect me much and I came here with the intent of a sober discussion from a Christian perspective and how it's good that government is separate from religion. But it's a topic by which many people become emotionally charged and can't really have a rational exchange over.

The thing that is really going to end the division and hate is the ability to stay calm when expressing ourselves, not one side forcing themselves on the other.

Oh yeah, there is the cop out. If you want to leave a debate fine, but don't throw the old "I'm leaving because everyone is too emotional" garbage. Of course people get passionate about issues that are near and dear to them. The reality is you're leaving because you can't get people to agree with you. At least be honest.

 

[CrazyDude]

I will never understand why people put so much faith in the Bible. Even if there is a God, what makes so many Christians believe that anything in the Bible is accurate? You are putting all of you faith in the hands of something humans wrote a long time ago. How can you be so sure that it was God who came up with those words and not some who believed he was talking for him?

 

[F0rneus]

My friends on Facebook are on full fucking moron mode. I am keeping them there, just to laugh at their fucking idiocy. The amount of confederate flags, pics of black people with confederate flags and Straight Pride pictures is astounding. This whole Share if you are proud to be straight thing, is downright astounding.

 

[FullMetalx117]

/shrug. If other people are doing that, it's really not my problem.

Homosexuality is well documented in biology, and in other animals. It's natural, as we can assume no one taught goats to be sinful.

So, homosexuality is biologically natural in living creatures. God made all living creatures.

With that, you can follow the rest of my argument.

To suddenly claim that something biological is sinful because it is sexual would be to also include sex w/your wife, and the process of having children would also be sinful.

To claim that God created some biology to be right, and others to be wrong, would be really damning on God. You would then have to admit God is pretty fucked up if He created some people with the natural urge to damn themselves to hell. Since God is perfect, though, and not a horrible sadist like that, it would make a whole lot more sense if God actually doesn't condemn human sexuality... including both hetero and homo relations (and was all about love and respect and honoring your partner).

In Biology, it is also taught that the ultimate goal of a species is reproduction- to pass on genes to the next generation and ensure that species' does not go extinct. It is not so farfetched to think why other people may have deferring opinions.

 

[metalslimer]

You can act as calm as possible but no matter how calm you put the words you are insulting a part of people they can't change. You wouldn't expect someone to remain ok with someone calmly stating that they believe black people are arrogant for wanting equal rights

 

[cajunator]

Why so defensive? Nobody hates you. We're just having a disagreement on whether or not you're a bigot. I know it might sound offensive to you but it's just my opinion. You should try and respect my opinion more.

Hate the bigoted ideas not the bigoted person.

The interesting thing is that people will say things, claim they are not a bigot and how hurtful it is to be called one, and then miss the irony of being hurt by being labeled as something bad.

 

[OboroShogun]

/shrug. If other people are doing that, it's really not my problem.

Homosexuality is well documented in biology, and in other animals. It's natural, as we can assume no one taught goats to be sinful.

So, homosexuality is biologically natural in living creatures. God made all living creatures.

With that, you can follow the rest of my argument.

To suddenly claim that something biological is sinful because it is sexual would be to also include sex w/your wife, and the process of having children would also be sinful.

To claim that God created some biology to be right, and others to be wrong, would be really damning on God. You would then have to admit God is pretty fucked up if He created some people with the natural urge to damn themselves to hell. Since God is perfect, though, and not a horrible sadist like that, it would make a whole lot more sense if God actually doesn't condemn human sexuality... including both hetero and homo relations (and was all about love and respect and honoring your partner the way the church should honor God).

This is just too funny to resist. Animals rape to procreate and cannibalize the young of competing males. Are we really using them as a moral compass haha??

 

[Rich!]

This is just too funny to resist. Animals rape to procreate and cannibalize the young of competing males. Are we really using them as a moral compass haha??

You state each page that you are quitting the thread, get you keep posting.

What's up with that man

 

[wild wild rice]

This discussion just made me google "contradictions in the bible."

 

[Mermandala]

Here, this is pretty funny too... don't resist it, answer it.

OboroShogun, would you be happy to give wedding ring tattoos to a married gay couple?

 

[Captain Europe]

This is just too funny to resist. Animals rape to procreate and cannibalize the young of competing males. Are we really using them as a moral compass haha??

There are animals who don't rape and cannibalise, but are homosexual, do some research before you say foolish things.

 

[metalslimer]

This is just too funny to resist. Animals rape to procreate and cannibalize the young of competing males. Are we really using them as a moral compass haha??

This is a terrible argument as both of those things cause harm to another member of the species. The fact that homosexuality is brought up in animals is to show that it isn't some strange thing that humans decided to do all of a sudden.

 

[Perspicacity]

This is just too funny to resist. Animals rape to procreate and cannibalize the young of competing males. Are we really using them as a moral compass haha??

Gods kinda a shit head for making those animals that way tbh

 

[Siegcram]

In Biology, it is also taught that the ultimate goal of a species is reproduction- to pass on genes to the next generation and ensure that species' does not go extinct. It is not so farfetched to think why other people may have deferring opinions.

Homosexuality exists throughout the entire animal kingdom. And for humans, sex has long evolved beyond a purely reproductive purpose.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

I can understand a lot of the righteous indignation and anger against this guy, but I don't think it's helping our cause to insult him by hurling names. Yes, his views are intolerant and hurtful. But you aren't changing anyone's mind by attacking.

I'm going to admit to something here: I was a bigot once. I was raised in an extremely religious household (throughout my youth, I was forced to read the bible like a novel daily--I've read it front-to-back four times). So my formative years were spent believing homosexuality is a choice, and homosexuals are arrogant sinners.

What led to me changing my mind? Someone encouraging me to rethink my position, by pointing out the logical fallacies and detrimental flaws in my beliefs. But the key is that he challenged my beliefs in a respectful manner (far more respectful than I likely deserved), with a calm appeal to my rational side. If he had called me a hateful bigot (which, looking back, he would have been absolutely right to do), I would never have considered challenging my beliefs. I would never have looked into myself and realized that I was blaming homosexuals for something that was a part of their genetic makeup. And I would never have found myself cheering and tearing up when SCOTUS made same sex marriage a reality nationwide.

Am I saying give all bigots hugs and kisses? Of course not. I'm not even saying this guy could have been reached and learned to rethink his position. I'm just saying you'll draw far more flies with honey than with vinegar.

This is just too funny to resist. Animals rape to procreate and cannibalize the young of competing males. Are we really using them as a moral compass haha??

Why is it that every time I get done writing something trying to semi-defend you, you say something absolutely fucking stupid and I regret what I just wrote?

 

[OboroShogun]

You state each page that you are quitting the thread, get you keep posting.

What's up with that man

You are right. I need to ignore the updated responses. I am officially 100% leaving. I'm going to get a hamburger or something so I don't look anymore but that was just too flawed of an argument to leave alone.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Has any christian crusader ever explained why the homosexuality thing is the one thing they are so vehemently against out of the bible while ignoring all of the other outlandish and crazy shit that passes for sins in the Old Testament? Like, where is the outrage for outlawing shellfish? Where are the people stoning their daughters to death for losing their virginity before marriage?

God changed his mind on those.

No seriously no one ever has because no one ever can.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

This is just too funny to resist. Animals rape to procreate and cannibalize the young of competing males. Are we really using them as a moral compass haha??

Who used it as a moral compass? Do you even know what moral compass means?

 

[Rich!]

You are right. I need to ignore the updated responses. I am officially 100% leaving. I'm going to get a hamburger or something so I don't look anymore but that was just too flawed of an argument to leave alone.

The only flawed argument shown so far is the one you are promoting.

Disregarding the rights of millions of people because of something an old book written by fuck knows who says? It's insane.

But whatever. Bye!

 

[Captain Europe]

You are right. I need to ignore the updated responses. I am officially 100% leaving. I'm going to get a hamburger or something so I don't look anymore but that was just too flawed of an argument to leave alone.

Don't forget to pour your salt on the hamburger bruh.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

You are right. I need to ignore the updated responses. I am officially 100% leaving. I'm going to get a hamburger or something so I don't look anymore but that was just too flawed of an argument to leave alone.

what does the bible say about gluttony?

 

[Ambitious]

This is just too funny to resist. Animals rape to procreate and cannibalize the young of competing males. Are we really using them as a moral compass haha??

Let's use God as moral compass, then. You know, the guy who murdered thousands of Egyptian children and caused many more of their people to die of starvation and sickness after his plagues ravaged the land. All of this because the pharao wouldn't let Moses' people leave... after God deliberately "hardened his heart" so he wouldn't let them leave.

But he loved them!

 

[Siegcram]

Who used it as a moral compass? Do you even know what moral compass means?

He doesn't have to, his is conveniently written down.

 

[Karl_Dilkington7]

He could eat a knob at night.

"If your not happy looking a knob in the face, then something is wrong with you."

"Mr. K. Dilkington?!?!"

BTW you guys probably don't want to turn this into the homosexuality Bible debate thread. Nobody wins that.

I have no idea why that make be laugh so hard...maybe because is sounds like Dickington??? I don't know lol.

True. No point fighting over this; and this is coming from an atheist. I'd hate to see this thread derail...although I'm now I'm part of the problem thanks to Karl Pilkington lol. However, if people want to start a new thread over this, I think it's welcome on Gaf (I don't know honestly).

 

[excelsiorlef]

In Biology, it is also taught that the ultimate goal of a species is reproduction- to pass on genes to the next generation and ensure that species' does not go extinct. It is not so farfetched to think why other people may have deferring opinions.

The legitimacy of LGBT folk is not just a matter of opinion.

Stop acting like opinions are some sort of get out of being a bigot card.

 

[Jane Mansfield]

on that day, humanity received new hope

 

[Canucked]

This is just too funny to resist. Animals rape to procreate and cannibalize the young of competing males. Are we really using them as a moral compass haha??

The topic was biology not morality. People don't need to eat the young of others to survive.

They also don't need to be bigots, but morality doesn't apply to you, no?

See what I did. Don't twist words.

 

[Razmos]

But don't you see how hurtful and unnecessary it is to call something a person can't control a sin? And that when they don't stop being the person they were born as, they're somehow arrogant?

Let's say you have brown hair. Stop doing that. Hide it. For the rest of your life, you can't show a single brown hair. Ever. Why? Because my God said so. And if you refuse, you're an arrogant sinner. You must come to my God on bowed knee and beg His forgiveness for your brown-haired sin. To refuse is to be labelled an outcast by a large swath of society and be condemned to a life of shame and self-loathing.

I know my little scenario makes little sense. But to those of us who aren't Christian, neither do the proclamations of tent-dwellers from over a millennia ago who still believed the Earth was flat and the sun rotated around it.

I absolutely adore this post. I want to marry it.

 

[Aselith]

I'm not sure how you've read that from what I've said. Jesus reiterated the truth of the Old Testament and defined marriage in a heterosexual manner himself. To wish that people would not live sinfully in accordance to what Jesus taught is in no way unlike Jesus, not that I'm claiming to be Christ-like as that would be immeasurably arrogant.

I stated that I wish all people well but believe that Jesus is the truth and ultimately living our lives in accordance to his teaching is what is best for everyone, though it is something not to be forced on others as then they have not truly changed sincerely in their hearts.

As far as I know, Jesus never mentioned homosexuality at all. Care to find me a verse?

 

[excelsiorlef]

This is just too funny to resist. Animals rape to procreate and cannibalize the young of competing males. Are we really using them as a moral compass haha??

So just to be clear you've now equated being gay with:

Lying
Cheating
Stealing
Raping
Killing
Cannibalism.

 

[ChouGoku]

I have family who are part of the clergy and am quite well acquainted with the bible. And your arguments are nothing I haven't heard before, and they're hateful bullshit. You pick and choose what people should adhere to so that you can feel good about yourself and condemn others. As it has already been pointed out, your reading of the bible isn't somehow the true one.

Just because you wrap your hate in kind words doesn't lessen the hatred behind them.

Wouldnt it be the true version of the bible? The bible clearly says "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them."I grew up in this as well. There were a lot of parts, especially in the old testament where I tried to ignore them, or say it was a different time. But the bible says "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows." When people say that God would be against it I wonder if they have read the book they claim to follow because he is clearly against it. I guess the jesus loophole would mean you wouldnt have to kill them anymore, but it still is considered a sin in the bible.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

As far as I know, Jesus never mentioned homosexuality at all. Care to find me a verse?

Even if he found a verse:

1. The Bible is proof of nothing.

2. He wouldn't understand it as he's blindly quoting without understanding.

 

[cajunator]

I can understand a lot of the righteous indignation and anger against this guy, but I don't think it's helping our cause to insult him by hurling names. Yes, his views are intolerant and hurtful. But you aren't changing anyone's mind by attacking.

I'm going to admit to something here: I was a bigot once. I was raised in an extremely religious household (throughout my youth, I was forced to read the bible like a novel daily--I've read it front-to-back four times). So my formative years were spent believing homosexuality is a choice, and homosexuals are arrogant sinners.

What led to me changing my mind? Someone encouraging me to rethink my position, by pointing out the logical fallacies and detrimental flaws in my beliefs. But the key is that he challenged my beliefs in a respectful manner (far more respectful than I likely deserved), with a calm appeal to my rational side. If he had called me a hateful bigot (which, looking back, he would have been absolutely right to do), I would never have considered challenging my beliefs. I would never have looked into myself and realized that I was blaming homosexuals for something that was a part of their genetic makeup. And I would never have found myself cheering and tearing up when SCOTUS made same sex marriage a reality nationwide.

Am I saying give all bigots hugs and kisses? Of course not. I'm not even saying this guy could have been reached and learned to rethink his position. I'm just saying you'll draw far more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Dude I even brought somebody (granted they asked to go) to one of those "Pray away the gay" programs. I used to be a huge bigot because of my faith. Then I began to meet people and understand their side of the story. How much pain it causes them, especially if they are Christian. Imagine fighting against who you are because of what you believe. He almost killed himself because of it. No fucking way was I going to continue supporting a program that did nothing to make someone truly feel more accepting of themselves.
I never brought that up again and my friend is much happier now as a result of accepting who he actually is. He also isnt the sort to sleep around. He is like any good natured person with respect for others. Great great person.

 

[wild wild rice]

So just to be clear you've now equated being gay with:

Lying
Cheating
Stealing
Raping
Killing
Cannibalism.

Literally just loled.

 

[Captain Europe]

In Biology, it is also taught that the ultimate goal of a species is reproduction- to pass on genes to the next generation and ensure that species' does not go extinct. It is not so farfetched to think why other people may have deferring opinions.

Then they need to educate themselves, because the world is overpopulated and most people don't even know when their next meal is going to be.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

So just to be clear you've now equated being gay with:

Lying
Cheating
Stealing
Raping
Killing
Cannibalism.

Almost the 10 commandments. Almost.

 

[Mermandala]

So just to be clear you've now equated being gay with:

Lying
Cheating
Stealing
Raping
Killing
Cannibalism.

All that's left is pirating. You wouldn't downlow a marriage so don't copy that floppy boys.

 

[Doorman]

This is just too funny to resist. Animals rape to procreate and cannibalize the young of competing males. Are we really using them as a moral compass haha??

So.....wars, then? Because humanity actually does do all of that, too.

What I find most interesting about the responses is that, to a person, they damn near all seem to be based in religious belief. And that's fine! But that's also not something we should be basing our secular laws on. Some do have origins in religion, like national holidays and the like, but those are made for convenience as much as morality, and don't involve restricting the legal rights of an entire group of people.

Allowing two people of the same sex to share the benefits of legal marriage when they're abiding by the same terms as straight couples doesn't do any damage to those straight couples, it's only expanding the sort of personal liberty that those opposing SSM claim to be in favor of, and it has nothing to do with what goes on in the church.

 

[slit]

This is just too funny to resist. Animals rape to procreate and cannibalize the young of competing males. Are we really using them as a moral compass haha??

Do you know what a moral compass is? It is not biological and comparing biological aggression which we can control to biological make-up that we cannot is very sick. We have evolved as a species to make choices in aggressive instincts. Most people don't act on them, some do. We do not have that same choice when it comes to sexual preferences. Making comparisons to homosexuality preferences and rape instincts is so insincere, it's down there with OJ looking for the "real killers" speech.

 

[Miles X]

I'm finished speaking on the matter because really it doesn't affect me much and I came here with the intent of a sober discussion from a Christian perspective and how it's good that government is separate from religion. But it's a topic by which many people become emotionally charged and can't really have a rational exchange over.

The thing that is really going to end the division and hate is the ability to stay calm when expressing ourselves, not one side forcing themselves on the other.

Is when you guys go extinct, and slowly does it, but we're getting there ;-)

And the big difference with LGBT and supporters, is that you deserve the hate.

 

[pgtl_10]

Anyone notice that anti-equality people keep mentioning Muslims in their comments? It's like they are trying to get people to join their movement by hating on another group.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

In Biology, it is also taught that the ultimate goal of a species is reproduction- to pass on genes to the next generation and ensure that species' does not go extinct. It is not so farfetched to think why other people may have deferring opinions.

Hear that guys? If you're born sterile, you're not helping our species and are therefore barely human. And don't even get me started on post-menopausal women...

 

[Captain Europe]

Anyone notice that anti-equality people keep mentioning Muslims in their comments? It's like they are trying to get people to join their movement by hating on another group.

Of course they are, they hate anything that is slightly different from them.

 

[Miles X]

In Biology, it is also taught that the ultimate goal of a species is reproduction- to pass on genes to the next generation and ensure that species' does not go extinct. It is not so farfetched to think why other people may have deferring opinions.

Another idiotic view. Gay people are gay, not allowing them to get married does not suddenly stop them from being gay. Also, we're not obligated, not any one of us, to have children.

And that's ignoring the fact that many gay couples are becoming families having children in many different ways.

 

[excelsiorlef]

No to mention you could make the argument that homosexuality serves a purpose of population control. If a certain % of humanity doesn't reproduce it lowers the exponential rate of population growth, and I'm talking about since the beginning of civilization. Think about it.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Another idiotic view. Gay people are gay, not allowing them to get married does not suddenly stop them from being gay. Also, we're not obligated, not any one of us, to have children.

And that's ignoring the fact that many gay couples are becoming families having children in many different ways.

Exactly. Populations are booming and we have a lot of orphaned kids who need good families.

 

[cajunator]

So.....wars, then? Because humanity actually does do all of that, too.

What I find most interesting about the responses is that, to a person, they damn near all seem to be based in religious belief. And that's fine! But that's also not something we should be basing our secular laws on. Some do have origins in religion, like national holidays and the like, but those are made for convenience as much as morality, and don't involve restricting the legal rights of an entire group of people.

Allowing two people of the same sex to share the benefits of legal marriage when they're abiding by the same terms as straight couples doesn't do any damage to those straight couples, it's only expanding the sort of personal liberty that those opposing SSM claim to be in favor of, and it has nothing to do with what goes on in the church.

Exactly. Once I realized that I was no longer opposed to it.
Christianity isnt the only religion in existence and doesnt even apply in many cases. A lot of people are not beholden to it, and in their religion (or non) it is perfectly acceptable.
This is not "playing God" it is enacting laws protecting the rights of gays and the civil definition of marriage as government deals with it. Giving them tax breaks and other benefits that heterosexual marriages afford.
Whether religions agree or not is an entirely different battle and not even related to this ruling to be honest. It doesnt concern them,

 

[FullMetalx117]

Hear that guys? If you're born sterile, you're not helping our species and are therefore barely human. And don't even get me started on post-menopausal women...

Okay now you're just putting words in my mouth... "barely human" wtf I don't know how you ended up getting that out of my post, it's almost insulting to me for you to even think I have those views.

 

[sn00zer]

https://twitter.com/rwsurfergirl is going to overdose on salt.

Is this the same person who leaked awesome videogame stuff for years?