Vincent Alexander
Member
This was my first question, though I'm not sure which version of Jones I'd be more afraid of.
Video shows FSU QB throwing a punch at a woman at a bar
- Thread starter MIMIC
- Start date
- Status
TatteredHat
Member
Any thrown punch can cause a freak accident resulting in all manner of injury or even death, they're both fools for resorting to violence of that degree.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Well she could of definitely did that and thus all could have been avoided since, you know she started it. and secondly, if you are apart of bar culture, you would know that people brushing by you is proper etiquette as most people are trying to get a drink and move from the spot.
She could've used some of that before she tried attacking a guy for bumping next to her in a bar.
Icewear Vezzo
Banned
I feel like only on GAF do people have these opinions. I work at a bar and literally don't know these people some posters speak of when they say "normal" like I said it's a cultural thing. What may be normal in one culture may be abnormal in another. Doesn't make anyone better than another tbh
Strangelove77
Member
This thread has, like, all the types of sexism possible. Against women, against men, reverse sexism, backwards racism, loop de loop sexism, 1080 spin sexism, etc.
I'm impressed. And also pretty sad.
I'm impressed. And also pretty sad.
We ain't talking about who started it lmao. They were both dumbasses, he was just the bigger dumbass.
He was clearly brushing her hard into the bar, but W/E.
No fucking shit.
Jawbreaker
Member
I mean, we can reasonably assume and gauge when such force is necessary. If you're a male athlete with a height and size advantage over a woman at a bar and she just finishes throwing a half-assed punch that barely hits you along with a weak knee, there's no reason to immediately fear for your safety and clock her with force. You also presumably have security or a bouncer in the area, so you have the option of stepping away and reporting the incident. She wasn't getting into a boxing stance and making some room to brawl with the guy—she appeared to be responding to him putting his hands on her after she tells him to back off. She wasn't chasing after him, either.
For whatever reason, she had a problem with him being in her space and hitting up against her. She looks to be telling him to back off and threatening to punch if he keeps getting in her space, which then leads him to escalate by doing exactly that: putting his hands on her. Would you say she was justified in punching and kneeing him because he put his hands on her? He was trying to restrict her ability to move her arms, after all. Up until he grabbed her, all we had physically was his body either brushing or pushing hers. She responds to this verbally and with the threat of throwing a punch if he gets in her space again, but she did not put her hands on him nor throw a punch at this point in time. It wasn't until he grabbed her that she retaliated rather meagerly, perhaps in an attempt to break free or deliver on her promise.
In what sense would the guy's following action be justified? You can argue that it happened in the heat of the moment, but that doesn't excuse him from acting disproportionately.
It doesn't appear that way to me. It seems like she warns him to back away from her space which then leads him to double down and attempt to restrain her arms. It doesn't look like she's about to attack him or getting ready to fight.
Intheflorsh
Banned
Stop trying to appropriate your sober values on bar culture!
do you not see how ironic it is to talk about culture and superior tones and then criticize GAF as a place where only these people "have these opinions?"
Icewear Vezzo
Banned
The culture part? Yes. The superior tones thing is a laughable attempt at finding something that's not there but okay.
Obviously the force he used was unnecessary and disproportionate, but I'm guessing it was a split second of rage, from being struck in the face himself, and threatened several times. It's not like he laid in to her after that. It was one punch, and even then it didn't look like a major haymaker or anything like that. Just a reactionary hit. He should get fined, maybe a temporary suspension, but I don't think he should be thrown off the team or face any serious criminal charges.
Same for her really. She should also face some sort of minor punishment only, for starting the whole thing, by initially threatening and striking him.
Same for her really. She should also face some sort of minor punishment only, for starting the whole thing, by initially threatening and striking him.
Kitsunebaby
Member
No I don't. See, I'm a delicate woman and could never actually cause any harm, right?
Did I say anything about the law? I just said that if you're the kind of piece of shit to go around hitting people for no reason, don't be surprised when someone hits you back.
I also hold a special hatred for women who rely on sexist social norms to get away with unprovoked violence, and for the people who defend them. Because I actually do want both sexes to be held to the same standard.
Punches come fast from a raised position, especially in that close range. It's not something to be ignored like, "Oh, she certainly won't use them, she can't be that crazy, right?"
*swoon*
Still her fault even if we take this into account.
If a guy does the same thing no one would excuse it with that crap thats for sure.
unknownstranger
Member
Fixed. Star athletes can get away with basically anything in high school because of how much their play helps their school. Once they go to college things they got away in high school they can't do in college because of the national attention they get. Not saying he's punched a woman before but he probably honestly feels like he did nothing wrong.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Definitely overreacted and escalated violence level.
At least not a complete crazy sucker punch and she definitely acted violently.
Guilty but not the worst
At least not a complete crazy sucker punch and she definitely acted violently.
Guilty but not the worst
CliqWriter
Member
If Im at a bar/club and some woman calls me the n word then hits me.
I would hit her back. Yes, in self defense.. how do I know that second
punch isn't coming?
On the other hand, be a gentleman. This guy was using too much force to
get to the bar. Or better yet, ask to squeeze in for a second. or wait.
I would hit her back. Yes, in self defense.. how do I know that second
punch isn't coming?
On the other hand, be a gentleman. This guy was using too much force to
get to the bar. Or better yet, ask to squeeze in for a second. or wait.
He would of gotten away with this too, if it wasn't for the vid. Remember this is the Tallahassee PD who did nothing with Jameis Winston.
If she was telling him to back off by just slightly pushing him back or with her hand out, then yeah. But she moves into that spot, turns, says something to him, he doesn't respond. He continues to move into the spot next to where she's standing, she turns, places her hand on him, raises her first, all because "he's in her bubble." That already comes off as either drunk as fuck or just incredibly irrational and hostile. He goes "get the fuck away from me" and tries to get restrain and push her away, she kicks, punches, misses, and then he punches back.
I mean I absolutely think a college football player hits a lot fucking harder than average girl at a bar, but I also don't think a) a college football player b) dude who's probably had afew drinks is able to make that call and scale his reaction in the span of a 3-second encounter. If it was a way smaller dude in that situation, I don't think there'd be nearly as much of an issue. This is purely an issue of scale. But simultaneously, you have to be really drunk or really stupid to actively threaten someone way bigger than you with a raised fist.
She raises a fist to him escalating the situation with a threat of violence. Restraining., especially in a confined space where he cannot move away, is appropriate. She again escalates by kneeing and punching. He responds with one punch.
It's an unfortunate situation, maybe she didn't mean to escalate, but that how these things go sometimes with alcohol an aggressive personality.
LizardKing
Member
The people who think this was the right outcome are sexist plain and simple. It is not okay for a woman to hit a man, it's assault on her part. The fact that she wasn't charged is sexist. Put it this way, reverse the situation and put him in her place and her in his, then you'd support her being charged and not him or would you say she was defending herself? It's time to start treating men and women equally under the law.
Thats not quite how it looks to me.
- Both are headed to the same empty space at the bar.
- Both try squeezing through, she gets through by shoving the guy to her right (who doesnt throw any punches..wtf), she arches backward and says something to the football guy.
- He continues trying to squeeze through, she continues to move over into the space hes trying to get into.
- She gets agitated and puts her elbow between them and pushes him back, says some words, and cocks her fist at him.
- He grabs her arm, she jerks back and follows up with a knee and throws a punch with her free hand.
- He retaliates with a punch of his own.
I'm not sure how someone "clearly not looking for a fight" threatens the other person with a cocked fist and attempts two offensive attacks before the other person has made any.
If it were reversed and she punched him so hard that he bled onto the bar when he did no harm to her, then she should definitely be charged for such an overuse of force. I would have no problems with that.
You said you didn't care what's proportional:
"I don't really care what's proportional. When someone hits you for no reason your rationality dissipates and all that's left is rage."
Talk of proportional self defense is important in law. For instance, you can't just shoot someone who slapped you and try and excuse it because of rage.
Arondight
Member
People squeeze through crowds all the time in bars. If everyone took that as a sign of assault, every bar in the world would be in devastation because 100% people squeeze past people all the time to reach the counter.
There's clearly enough space at the counter. People tend to notice the grab the hand part as the first escalation but it's pretty clear that she first goes at his face the first time round then shuffles a little towards the space he's trying to reach and then turns around again and this time, stretches her left arm out to block his passage and preventing him from reaching into that space at the counter while at the same time raising a fist. That's a threat.
He seems to grab her arm which she raised with fists clenched held in a threatening manner as a way to prevent getting hit as she's aggressive, she proceeds to be the first to attack by kneeing the groin and then going for the swing. It's after this swinging where he throws a punch as a means to defend himself who just got attacked twice.
It's pretty clear that she's the biggest cause of the situation. She's the first to create the encounter, she's the first to create the second encounter when the guy is clearly facing the other way reaching the bar, she's the first to throw a threatening pose and she's the first to attack. The other woman who was there before at the counter before either of them reached the counter (which they happen to arrive at the same time) recognized the man trying to move past and squeezing through and proceeds to move away without incident.
What the man did was wrong. He's an athlete which means he's physically more capable than an average person which means that punch was a little much but pinning the blame solely on the guy is pretty wrong.
There's clearly enough space at the counter. People tend to notice the grab the hand part as the first escalation but it's pretty clear that she first goes at his face the first time round then shuffles a little towards the space he's trying to reach and then turns around again and this time, stretches her left arm out to block his passage and preventing him from reaching into that space at the counter while at the same time raising a fist. That's a threat.
He seems to grab her arm which she raised with fists clenched held in a threatening manner as a way to prevent getting hit as she's aggressive, she proceeds to be the first to attack by kneeing the groin and then going for the swing. It's after this swinging where he throws a punch as a means to defend himself who just got attacked twice.
It's pretty clear that she's the biggest cause of the situation. She's the first to create the encounter, she's the first to create the second encounter when the guy is clearly facing the other way reaching the bar, she's the first to throw a threatening pose and she's the first to attack. The other woman who was there before at the counter before either of them reached the counter (which they happen to arrive at the same time) recognized the man trying to move past and squeezing through and proceeds to move away without incident.
What the man did was wrong. He's an athlete which means he's physically more capable than an average person which means that punch was a little much but pinning the blame solely on the guy is pretty wrong.
captjohnboyd
Member
From what it looks like to me he was trying to squeeze in (it looks like he says to both this girl he hit and the girl to his left that hes trying to squeeze in) and the victim just flips her shit. Under no circumstances is what he did okay, but seriously what is wrong with that girl?
I've been punched in the face several times by women. One violent ex girlfriend (she thought I texted an ex), a woman who thought I was trying to cop a feel when I placed my hand on her shoulder to try and pass by in a crowded club and another girl who didn't like the fact that I said I was okay with homosexuals. In each case the woman was trashed. In each case I either walked away or attempted to restrain their hands. So in no way am I okay with him doing this.
They hit hard though. Particularly my ex. She was 5 9' and swung like she meant it. I had a good size welt under my eye for a couple days. Women shouldn't be excused from doing this any more than men even if the punch is some wildly swung half slap that doesn't cause real damage. Is the distinction made if it's a man who throws a sloppy punch? Perhaps I don't know for sure but I wouldn't think so
It's obvious however they were both wasted. Neither one of them can stand up, they're both swaying in place, and from what I can see she's clearly kicking him in the bottom of the video frame.
Whatever. I don't want to sound like some apologist here. He got what he deserved and if I could manage not to ever hit a woman back (and I was good and drunk every time) there's no reason why he couldn't restrain himself. I would just like to call it what it is. Two drunk idiots who both acted out of line and assaulted one another.
I also have no issue with him taking the larger punishment since he's clearly much larger and stronger than her and did the most damage but there should be some way to educate the girl on her poor decision making as well
I've been punched in the face several times by women. One violent ex girlfriend (she thought I texted an ex), a woman who thought I was trying to cop a feel when I placed my hand on her shoulder to try and pass by in a crowded club and another girl who didn't like the fact that I said I was okay with homosexuals. In each case the woman was trashed. In each case I either walked away or attempted to restrain their hands. So in no way am I okay with him doing this.
They hit hard though. Particularly my ex. She was 5 9' and swung like she meant it. I had a good size welt under my eye for a couple days. Women shouldn't be excused from doing this any more than men even if the punch is some wildly swung half slap that doesn't cause real damage. Is the distinction made if it's a man who throws a sloppy punch? Perhaps I don't know for sure but I wouldn't think so
It's obvious however they were both wasted. Neither one of them can stand up, they're both swaying in place, and from what I can see she's clearly kicking him in the bottom of the video frame.
Whatever. I don't want to sound like some apologist here. He got what he deserved and if I could manage not to ever hit a woman back (and I was good and drunk every time) there's no reason why he couldn't restrain himself. I would just like to call it what it is. Two drunk idiots who both acted out of line and assaulted one another.
I also have no issue with him taking the larger punishment since he's clearly much larger and stronger than her and did the most damage but there should be some way to educate the girl on her poor decision making as well
Miles Quaritch
Member
Based on the gifs (can't watch the video right now), it seems she's the aggressor and the guy was simply defending himself.
Do I think he could have could have used a little more restraint? Like a slap or pushed her back using his weight? Maybe, but it's not really on him to hold back when he's facing someone who is trying to attack him without any real provocation.
Better to end the situation quickly than allow her to reach for a glass or bottle.
Do I think he could have could have used a little more restraint? Like a slap or pushed her back using his weight? Maybe, but it's not really on him to hold back when he's facing someone who is trying to attack him without any real provocation.
Better to end the situation quickly than allow her to reach for a glass or bottle.
Jawbreaker
Member
Oh, of course; I'm not saying all of her actions were rational. She just as easily could have told him she felt uncomfortable or that he was in her way without the raised fist. My point isn't to say she's a saint who was accosted by some random guy, but that I believe he used disproportionate force in a situation that didn't necessitate putting his hands on her without her even attempting to assault him in the first place.
If I'm at a bar and I'm bumping into a woman who then is taken aback, raises her fist and tells me to back off, I'm not going to escalate the situation or grab her arms. I'm not going to punch her in the face if she gets upset and knees/throws a punch at me because I'm trying to restrain her. Both would be disproportionate because at no point in time was I in any sort of danger. She's not pursuing me? I can walk away, tell a bouncer, go home, find another spot. She's not throwing a flurry of punches my way? Okay, what would landing a much stronger blow on her do? It's not going to do anything for my ego because quite frankly, violence is a last resort for me. It's not going to make matters better for me because now I face an assault charge.
There are times when it's necessary to throw punches and lay someone down, man or woman; I agree with that. I'm not above hitting a woman if she's trying to seriously hurt me. In this case, though? There are non-violent options. He wasn't contending with a capable fighter who's throwing multiple punches at him. He saw that the woman threw an arm and a knee, got heated, and punched her in the face. He didn't punch her out of necessity.
What? This type of thinking just isn't rational. Your response should be reasonable, not made up prophecy of what could have happen. She could have reach for a gun too, so maybe he should have just shot her to make sure and end the situation quickly.
It's really simple guys.
Dude was shoving his way into the bar.
His side was pressing against that girl as he was trying to get to the bar, she didn't like someone trying to get to the bar and raised her fist at him (threat of violence).
He restrained her fist as not to get punched.
She threw a punch at him with her other arm.
He threw a punch at her.
1. Don't threaten someone with physical violence expecting them to not defend themselves.
2. Don't throw a punch at someone if you can't handle them throwing one back.
3. Don't start fights over stupid shit.
Dude was shoving his way into the bar.
His side was pressing against that girl as he was trying to get to the bar, she didn't like someone trying to get to the bar and raised her fist at him (threat of violence).
He restrained her fist as not to get punched.
She threw a punch at him with her other arm.
He threw a punch at her.
1. Don't threaten someone with physical violence expecting them to not defend themselves.
2. Don't throw a punch at someone if you can't handle them throwing one back.
3. Don't start fights over stupid shit.
EightBitNate
Member
Or maybe "sexism" doesn't mean what it's supposed to mean.
IchigoSharingan
Member
Why did he go full on GTX 980Ti on her? She's only a 1080p, but he went 4k. An AMD 7950 would have sufficed. Not cool bruv.
Err no, he restrained her because she had a clenched fist and was threatening to punch him, which in the end she did, along with kneeing him in the groin. The initial cause for restraint is clear to see here.
She clearly instigated, which the law takes into consideration. Doubt she gets in trouble.
So imagine this Prost.
You push your way up to an open space at a bar and right when you get there you bump into someone to your right.
They turn to you and get in your face. Literally you are inside of a foot to each other.
They then start yelling at you and then they raise their fist motioning "I'm going to fucking punch you in the face" - their fist literally inches away from your face.
What is your reaction? You restrain the hand about to hit you in the face.
Then this person knees you in the groin and throws a punch at you.
Whether or not it lands, your body is in fight or flight and probably screaming to punch this person in the fucking head.
You just came to order a drink at a bar, and then someone quickly blows up at you waving their fist in your face.
It is that simple.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
...............................................................................
Your edits have left me speechless.
How so? It's what happened? Change open space to semi open, or inches to several inches, but it's still essentially exactly what happened...
Err no, he restrained her because she had a clenched fist and was threatening to punch him, which in the end she did. Clear to see her.
Can you legally initiate a grab with someone who hasn't actually touched you yet in a confrontation? I'm not so sure. Also, she may have felt threatened from his pushing her against the bar and was also responding in self defense. Honestly, I think the beginning of the confrontation is rather grey (whether she felt provoked/threatened by his pushing or she was the aggressor turning on him), but I feel his overwhelming force is what's problematic. Ultimately, they could have both handled it better, but he stepped over the line by inflicting serious damage to her.
Watch the video and not the gifs, she put her left hand on his chest before he grabbed her arm.
Does the same apply to children?
Pretty sure she is already touching him, you can see her arm stretching to his body, it's just the contact is off shot. And can you restrain someone's arm who's got a clenched fist and is threatening to punch you? Probably. Common sense would dictate as much anyway, though it may not necessarily be the sensible thing to do.
I do think his force was disproportionate, but I doubt he thought it through. Just looked like an instant reaction to getting punched in the face and knee'd in the groin.
On a side note, contact at a busy bar is pretty much guaranteed and expected, someone turning around and threatening to punch you for it is not. I've personally never been to a busy bar where I haven't had some minor pushing and shoving involved getting in to get served.
Whilst I would not have reacted the way he did, a grown adult woman is not a child.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Interesting posts, the problem is that we're no longer dealing with reality here but instead internet armchair bizarro world where humans have the computational capacities and speeds of supercomputers.
Yes, if you feel threatened.
- Status