CrashSimonFaye
Banned
The scene where Batman stands up to Superman like Viscant stands up to LTG had me going like...
What's Viscant and LTG?
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Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Comic-Con Trailer
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What's Viscant and LTG?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's some fighting game bullshit.
Rice-Eater
Member
The part where Snyder says the armored suit is more for buying him time(basically protecting him) and not enhancing his strength really bugs me. So when the two fight, Batman is still punching him with the strength of a normal man. It might be a pretty strong man, but it's still the strength of a man instead of like the strength of a cannonball or something like that. We can buy Superman being knocked away by a cannonball if he's not prepared to take it. But a normal man throwing a punch, and him being sent flying backwards is just too ridiculous.
Part of me thinks that the only reason Snyder said that was because he didn't want everybody thinking that Batman has his own Iron Man suit. Their was that one leaked scene where the two are charging at each other when Batman is in the armored suit. One man is probably moving with the force of a 1,000 pounds while the other is moving with the force of a million and they just clash equally?
Part of me thinks that the only reason Snyder said that was because he didn't want everybody thinking that Batman has his own Iron Man suit. Their was that one leaked scene where the two are charging at each other when Batman is in the armored suit. One man is probably moving with the force of a 1,000 pounds while the other is moving with the force of a million and they just clash equally?
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Batman has kryptonite, so I assume normal man punches do the job alright
In all likelihood it'll make a ton of money. Whether it receives good reviews or not is another thing entirely.
I can understand that. I'll never forget those last few seconds of Batman Begins. Better than any post credit teaser I've waited after a movie for.
BossDarkseid, is that a BvS ending spoiler? I'm trying to avoid specific story beats. Just want to be sure.
He's been on record saying that, then? Aren't post-credits sequences just fun little teasers for the more invested members of the movie-going audience? That's an awfully strong stance to take on something so harmless.
There are a few things that make it look super-unnatural.
1. This whole thing is on a blue screen stage. It looks like it's from 300 aesthetically. Not really faulting anyone for this, it's what Snyder does. It's all supposed to be fake because you can't throw someone into concrete amidst a burning city.
2. When filming this, I seriously doubt they threw her backwards into anything with any kind of force. This is definitely her on a blue screen stage stumbling backwards onto a short prop wall and throwing her hair and shoulders back. When your actual filmed action is no where close to what you're trying to depict you have to close the gap somehow...(see 4)
3. The concrete surface 3d asset that they have her being thrown into is super low quality. Like it's really really bad. It doesn't look like concrete at all, it's too damn shiny and the way the cracks and breaks look - they're really amateurish. Whoever created that asset didn't do their research. At all.
4. The camera is not moving with speed as Gadot is pushed back into a wall. Instead they opted for a quick zoom with a mild camera shake (because they didn't wire work toss her into a soft wall), which as you can expect makes it look more forceful. But it also looks more fake. Combine that really fucking hard zoom with a really bad 3D asset sitting against the subject of the shot and it draws huge scrutinizing attention to everything that isn't Gal Gadot. Also the motion blur...
Throw all of those together and viola it looks really bad.
I hope that's not how it looks in final cut.
The purpose of the suit may be to primarily buy him time, but basic physics give him a stronger than usual punch even if it's a complete side effect. The armored suit is made of metal. Metal has more density. Moved with equal force to a normal punch, it will produce more power than a punch of similar mass made of flesh and bone.
It'd be a kind of landmark for a film to break the laws of physics specifically to disempower it's hero, but probably not a good one, so you can rest assured he's now throwing normal punches.
Snyder does not have a sense of humour. He thinks he made a serious film with Sucker Punch, not realising it's a stealth comedy.
EroticSushi
Member
Yeah I know what you mean. It does have that "fake" feel to it when you look at it and it's probably is due to her not actually being physically thrown back.
But like you said it's what Zach does. He always has that look in his action scenes and it's too emphasize the power and impact being thrown around.
I think it's just an excuse to not make them look like they're coping Marvel or whatever. I don't see a problem with them doing it. The after credit scene is usually targetted to those who are more invested in it and understand the lore a bit more. They usually hint at a single topic/character and I don't see why can't do that with the DCCU. Give a hint for future characters, Justice League or villains.
Then again Zach does seem like someone who's just going to spread Easter eggs throughout the entire movie the way he did for Man of Steel so they'll probably do the same for this.
Any kind of fight between Batman vs Superman shouldn't be taken TOO seriously. Because it always comes down to:
"Oh but Superman can just punch him once and kill him!"
"Why doesn't he just use heat vision until Batman dies?"
"Superman is just being nice and isn't fighting seriously."
"Kryptonite"
"Red suns"
There's always going to be some kind of problem when you have a regular man going toe to toe with someone who's basically a God but I guess that's what makes it a fun fight.
I'm guessing the comment Zach made about the suit is being interpretating differently than what he wanted to get across. I can't imagine the suit not giving him some kind of physical enhancement.
No way this hunk of armor is just there for protection.
Messypandas
Member
Snyder put a post credit (or mid credit, can't remember) scene in DOTD. If its worth doing, he'll probably do it. I think that hard and fast rule came from Nolans end, and he was misquoted.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Really hope they snug up that CG because there are some rough shots in the trailer
Just because it does a better job protecting him than being an offensive weapon doesn't mean that he's fighting at a normal human's strength while in it.
Looks pretty good. Kind of expected a little more that would "wow" me, not in spectacle, but in imagery. The teaser had more of that and some of the best moments from this were just from that. The heat vision slicing up the skyscraper while Bruce watched was one of those moments. Some cool BvS fight scenes. Wonder Woman thrown in for some unexplained (in the trailer) reason.
Don't know if it will be great. I think it will be good.
Lex Luther casting looks like a big miss atm. I am not convinced.
Don't know if it will be great. I think it will be good.
Lex Luther casting looks like a big miss atm. I am not convinced.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
True, but I think that was the only time he's done it - and it was done to fuck with convention. I believe it was like, 10 seconds from the credits starting and then the *actual* ending plays out.
I'm pretty sure he hasn't done it since. I could be wrong though. I don't remember it happening on Sucker Punch, and I left the theater the instant the fuckin' owl movie ended.
Sucker Punch and owl movie probably weren't franchise material. It would be apropos here, but as someone mentioned, they probably don't want any more Marvel comparisons than they already get.
Lex Luthor looks horrible. Not even talking about the hair.
This movie... eugh. Something about it just seems like it's trying too hard. Too hard to be iconic, too hard to be dark. Then again, that's my problem with a lot of comic books, so I'm certainly not the target demographic here.
This movie... eugh. Something about it just seems like it's trying too hard. Too hard to be iconic, too hard to be dark. Then again, that's my problem with a lot of comic books, so I'm certainly not the target demographic here.
Easily the most hype moment in the trailer. The grappling gun scene was too CG but this. THIS is what I live for.Any kind of fight between Batman vs Superman shouldn't be taken TOO seriously. Because it always comes down to:
"Oh but Superman can just punch him once and kill him!"
"Why doesn't he just use heat vision until Batman dies?"
"Superman is just being nice and isn't fighting seriously."
"Kryptonite"
"Red suns"
There's always going to be some kind of problem when you have a regular man going toe to toe with someone who's basically a God but I guess that's what makes it a fun fight.
I'm guessing the comment Zach made about the suit is being interpretating differently than what he wanted to get across. I can't imagine the suit not giving him some kind of physical enhancement.
No way this hunk of armor is just there for protection.
lovely ladies
Member
Rice-Eater
Member
I get that physics plays a role in this suit. I think of it like a normal man swinging a sledge hammer. Now if he was to hit something with that, the impact would be much much more powerful than him punching it with his fist. But it's still just a man doing it. I'm guessing the suit does enhance his strength greatly, Snyder just didn't want to put too much emphasis on that because in the end it won't matter when he's up against Superman. I just didn't like his response about the suit though.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That's right, that's how it goes. Thanks.
There's a lot to appreciate in this trailer even if I remain skeptical due to Snyder's track record.
Affleck looks like an excellent fit for both Bruce and Bats. I was positive on the news of his casting previously but he's managed to raise my expectations even more. Add to this that the trailer manages to establish his motivation and why this is indeed a "Vs." movie without coming off as cheesy, and I've got to admit I'm encouraged.
I'm also enjoying that they've turned one of the stupidest criticisms of a comic book movie I've ever heard on its head. The "Superman unintentionally killed all those people and the failure to address that is why Man of Steel's final act is bad" argument is manufactured nonsense, and misses the point almost as much as when people say the prequel trilogy is bad because politics is boring. Now not only has Snyder addressed the criticism, he has actually disarmed it and pulled off a Kojima "you will feel ashamed of your words and deeds" moment.
Affleck looks like an excellent fit for both Bruce and Bats. I was positive on the news of his casting previously but he's managed to raise my expectations even more. Add to this that the trailer manages to establish his motivation and why this is indeed a "Vs." movie without coming off as cheesy, and I've got to admit I'm encouraged.
I'm also enjoying that they've turned one of the stupidest criticisms of a comic book movie I've ever heard on its head. The "Superman unintentionally killed all those people and the failure to address that is why Man of Steel's final act is bad" argument is manufactured nonsense, and misses the point almost as much as when people say the prequel trilogy is bad because politics is boring. Now not only has Snyder addressed the criticism, he has actually disarmed it and pulled off a Kojima "you will feel ashamed of your words and deeds" moment.
You make it sound like Superman is good enough to fight Zod while multitasking. He wasn't. Zod was his equivalent if not more powerful. I don't see him being able to juggle this. The primary concern was to stop Zod period so that he didn't you know destroy the planet.
If Superman didn't have his undivided attention on Zod who knows how that might have turned out. It's some nearby civilians, or the world. I liked the movie mostly because it finally gave Superman some pretty crazy odds. I mean that's just how I saw it, Zod wasn't fucking around and it took all of Superman's power and focus to win.
Ugh this argument has never and will never make sense. "Who knows what would have happened?!!" Whatever Goyer and Snyder wanted to happen, THAT'S what would have happened. If they wanted Superman to successfully keep Zod at bay while taking civilians into consideration, he would have. If they wanted Superman to beat Zod with the power of love, that would have happened too. These aren't real people, they're fictional characters operating within a narrative entirely dependent on the whims of their creators.
BossDarkseid
Member
Something I read, yeah....buuuut what I read can't be 100% true because story details clash with the trailer and other bite etc.
Ugh having him rescue people while fighting a military comander would have lessened the threat considerably. Seeing as this was only Clark's 2nd fight ever that would have been silly and out of place. But yay for the MoS debate! I feel that it hasn't been thoroughly covered yet.
MoS scene synched with trailer scene
That's pretty cool.
EroticSushi
Member
Someone mashed up the scenes from the trailer and MoS pretty well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=40&v=nyUp0u_8I_I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=40&v=nyUp0u_8I_I
You take all discussion away with this mentality. The whole point is to discuss character motive. In any movie. Why did he do this? Why did she do that? What was the motivation?
To say "Cuz that's how they wrote it" is extremely lazy and nothing more than an excuse to back out of discussion when you have nothing to add.
BlackGhost
Banned
Definitely gonna watch MoS again in preparation for this.
You only think these things after the fact in order to defend the movie. Why not complain that he saves soldiers while fighting Faora? Oh right, because you don't want to. It may have been less believable or enjoyable to see him save civilians during the Zod fight but there's absolutely nothing other than blind devotion that says it would have to be worse than what we ended up getting.
Also, the movie doesn't play up Clark's inexperience at being Superman whatsoever. We get no moments showcasing Clark being unsure about how to use his abilities. The most we get is Zod pointing out Clark had no military training and then proceeding to lose to him in a fight. The movie does nothing to support the "first day on the job!" angle in any meaningful way. It's just an excuse drummed up by fans that's never even brought up by the movie.
You make it sound like Superman is good enough to fight Zod while multitasking. He wasn't. Zod was his equivalent if not more powerful. I don't see him being able to juggle this. The primary concern was to stop Zod period so that he didn't you know destroy the planet.
If Superman didn't have his undivided attention on Zod who knows how that might have turned out. It's some nearby civilians, or the world. I liked the movie mostly because it finally gave Superman some pretty crazy odds. I mean that's just how I saw it, Zod wasn't fucking around and it took all of Superman's power and focus to win.
Zod being equal to Superman was utter bullshit. Superman had been dealing with his Earth-Sun powers ALL HIS LIFE, and he still apparently had trouble with them from time to time.
Zod arrives, spends all of five minutes acting like he's drunk, and suddenly he and his goons fight evenly with Supes?
Bull. Shit.
But of course, Snyder knows what sells, and the fanboys ate it up...
So the movie has to tell you it's his first day? Isn't that just a defense for your viewpoint same as the poster you're replying to?
Not at all. The crux of the criticism comes from the lack of consistency in having Superman defend humanity while seemingly paying no attention to the humans surrounding him and then pretending like Zod heat raying a family is suddenly a big deal. It's not lazy to point out poor writing. I'd rather analyze what's actually in the movie than make up motivations and character development out of thin air.
Anywho, I'm honestly not interested in yet another MoS debate. I shouldn't have replied to begin with, so consider me lazy or a troll or whatever.
Vincent Alexander
Member
God no. This is what god awful writers do---write whatever, because they're the writers. If everyone wants to be nitpicky as shit, it still makes more sense that Superman can't deal with Zod at the same time as saving civilians. And you're assuming Superman even thought about civilians. What if his focus was just to beat Zod? Some might say "Well, that's not supes" but in the end---too damn bad. What he is is what he is in Man of Steel. The rest is just people making crap up for why they love or hate it.
This times a million. Both sides are silly. Love it or hate it. Anything more is getting into crazy town with these excuses both ways.
lmao, jesus dude, get off your high horse.
Messofanego
Banned
The Iron Giant is the best possible superman movie.
There's this weird dissonance where people defending Man of Steel claim it's a serious movie, but whenever someone starts critically analyzing any part of it, they balk at having that discussion.
I've never seen that before, not with any other comic book movie, a genre that's been fighting to be critiqued legitimately rather than be dismissed as nothing but entertainment for the lowest common denominator. I don't understand why Man of Steel gets to have it both ways.
But how do you know that's poor writing and wasn't intentional? You think it was an accident that Goyer didn't write Superman to save civilians while fighting Zod? How could you possibly know one way or the other?
What you mean to say is "I thought it was a bad choice on the writer's part." That doesn't mean the writing itself was bad.
Zeyphersan
Banned
God I hope that's not true
CambriaRising
Member
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Did you summon me?
Messypandas
Member
Where has this even come from? Man of steel must be on the most polarizing movies on gaf, precisely because of endless discussion like this.
Of course it's not; there are dozens of direct-to-video Superman animated movies that work significantly better in almost every aspect.
Shamrock7r
Member
That really is load of crap. Man of Steel has rarely been given any benefit. It has had more nit picking criticisms and ignorant discussions about character motive and intent than the last 10 Marvel movies combined.
Messypandas
Member
No now its 'lol MOS fans', because they wither over 'deeper analysis'.
Angelus Errare
Banned
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