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[DryEyeRelief]

"People don't play KI because there isn't a heavy execution character like Viper in it."

...Is that really believable? I mean, I'm not going to say that is invalid opinion by itself. But is there a sizable amount of people that chose to pass on KI for that reason alone?

 

[Karsticles]

"People don't play KI because there isn't a heavy execution character like Viper in it."

...Is that really believable?

There's a small minority that is drawn to that sort of character, but I don't think it has a substantial impact on a game's audience.

 

[Dahbomb]

"People don't play KI because there isn't a heavy execution character like Viper in it."

...Is that really believable? I mean, I'm not going to say that is invalid opinion by itself. But is there a sizable amount of people that chose to pass on KI for that reason alone?

I have never heard of this until now.

I have however heard of people playing certain characters mainly because they are execution heavy and technical.


Main reason I have heard on people skipping KI is that it's on XB1 and they don't like the combo breaker stuff.

 

[NEO0MJ]

"People don't play KI because there isn't a heavy execution character like Viper in it."

...Is that really believable? I mean, I'm not going to say that is invalid opinion by itself. But is there a sizable amount of people that chose to pass on KI for that reason alone?

Dude, haven't you seen all those Viper players in Tournies, as well as both ranked and player matches online?

 

[mbpm1]

I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not.

 

[Dahbomb]

You would think then that the reverse is true... that people aren't playing KI because there's no execution heavy character but they should be flocking to play Mishima characters in Tekken.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not.

https://twitter.com/jchensor/status/620769619788173314

 

[Dahbomb]

https://twitter.com/jchensor/status/620769619788173314

LMAO @ the Ultradavid comment.

That's where I fall on that end.

 

[Karsticles]

https://twitter.com/jchensor/status/620769619788173314

I suppose a portion of the community could find the "autocombos" portion of KI uninteresting. It feels a bit...QTE-ish.

I totally sympathize with this, though:

what about the players who like the gameplay of a character but can't do the execution required? Tell them too bad?

I wanted to play Morrigan when Marvel launched, but she was WAY beyond my abilities back then. It took about a year before I could play her competently. I don't think I could handle someone like C. Viper in Marvel, ever. I'm just not that consistent in what I do.

Maybe I'm crazy and out of the loop, but I feel like 3F is still difficult enough to add hype moments and risk. Am I wrong?

 

[Sheroking]

James is that dude who will sit there and does the mission combos until he can get them four times in a row. I think execution and the ability to pull off tight links is what he prides himself on most as a fighting game player, so I can see why he's a bit put off by SF5's mission statement of "fuck hard links".

That said, there's certainly going to be character somewhere down the line who is more difficult to execute with than the others. Maybe that comes from juggle combos where precise movement is needed or it's a character that will have something like the super jump cancel shennangins of Viper, but I have to imagine it will happen.

 

[vocab]

Every combo should be a 1 frame link. It will totally help grow the genre.

 

[mbpm1]

Every combo should be a 1 frame link. It will totally help grow the genre.

pre-patch Elena life

 

[vocab]

I wish everything in real life was a 1f link. Getting out of bed would be a struggle.

 

[mbpm1]

I wish everything in real life was a 1f link. Gettimg out of bed would be a struggle.

Miss the frame for turning over to get out.

Fall off bed and lose 1/4 life.

I'd play it.

 

[Karsticles]

I wish everything in real life was a 1f link. Getting out of bed would be a struggle.

Teenage pregnancy rates would plummet.

 

[mbpm1]

Teenage pregnancy rates would plummet.

Forget teenage pregnancy, the human race would need to lab up

 

[DryEyeRelief]

LMAO @ the Ultradavid comment.

That's where I fall on that end.

David actually tweets a lot of gold during this execution discussion
https://twitter.com/ultradavid/status/620798565791633413
https://twitter.com/ultradavid/status/620773670080753664
https://twitter.com/ultradavid/status/620780037692723200

 

[Dahbomb]

I suppose a portion of the community could find the "autocombos" portion of KI uninteresting. It feels a bit...QTE-ish.

I totally sympathize with this, though:


I wanted to play Morrigan when Marvel launched, but she was WAY beyond my abilities back then. It took about a year before I could play her competently. I don't think I could handle someone like C. Viper in Marvel, ever. I'm just not that consistent in what I do.

Maybe I'm crazy and out of the loop, but I feel like 3F is still difficult enough to add hype moments and risk. Am I wrong?

You know what games have more than 3f buffers and are still techical and hype?

Tekken, Blazblue, UMVC3, KOFXIII and VF.

 

[SolarPowered]

I wish everything in real life was a 1f link. Getting out of bed would be a struggle.

I always wondered what Ted Cruz or Donald Trump would sound like if they played fighting games. This is it.

GGPO is stifling the competition of delay based netcode. Fuck this online matchmaking rollback regulation.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

pre-patch Elena life

are you serious?

 

[Rhapsody]

UMvC3 has a 3 frame buffer for links? I never knew that.

 

[mbpm1]

are you serious?

Exaggerating lol

 

[CountBlack]

Exaggerating lol

life as an elena main shouldn't be so rough

 

[mbpm1]

life as an elena main shouldn't be so rough

Go back to deejay if it's so hard

Kappa

 

[Dahbomb]

UMvC3 has a 3 frame buffer for links? I never knew that.

Yeah it's about that much. Otherwise doing stuff like Spencer Overhead into Armor Piercer would be like trying to do a 1 frame link (but when you actually try to do it, it's a lot easier than actually doing a 1f link).

Game has some hard execution mostly due to the sheer number of inputs you are doing at times in a short time. Stuff like Plink Mag Blasts, Morrigan fly cancels, rapid Seismos etc.

 

[Sayad]

https://twitter.com/jchensor/status/620769619788173314

"execution creativity in SFV. I'm sure there will be, but I'd hate to lose ALL the Dudley/Viper/Ibuki characters."

I know Dudley is very dependent on links, but would a 3 frames buffer make Viper/Ibuki(Actually, what's so hard about Ibuki outside her jump cancel ultra?!) any easier, like, at all?! SFIV already have a buffer for special attacks and special attacks is all that C-Viper ever does, yet she's still the highest execution character in the game!

 

[QisTopTier]

Miss the frame for turning over to get out.

Fall off bed and lose 1/4 life.

I'd play it.

I play this game every day

 

[CountBlack]

Go back to deejay if it's so hard

Kappa

you don't want dis DJ

 

[Anne]

"execution creativity in SFV. I'm sure there will be, but I'd hate to lose ALL the Dudley/Viper/Ibuki characters."
I know Dudley is very dependent on links, but would a 3 frames buffer make Viper/Ibuki(Actually, what's so hard about Ibuki outside her jump cancel ultra?!) any easier, like, at all?! SFIV already have a buffer for special attacks and special attacks is all that C-Viper ever does, yet she's still the highest execution character in the game!!!!

Tsumuji loop is make or break on maximizing the reward that she needs to justify her overall strength.

 

[mbpm1]

you don't want dis DJ

take anything over elena at this point tbh

 

[Sayad]

Yeah it's about that much. Otherwise doing stuff like Spencer Overhead into Armor Piercer would be like trying to do a 1 frame link (but when you actually try to do it, it's a lot easier than actually doing a 1f link).

Armor Piercer is a special attack, even SFIV have a buffer for special attacks! Does it actually have one for normal attacks?!

 

[CountBlack]

take anything over elena at this point tbh

u don't want dis

 

[DryEyeRelief]

"execution creativity in SFV. I'm sure there will be, but I'd hate to lose ALL the Dudley/Viper/Ibuki characters."

I know Dudley is very dependent on links, but would a 3 frames buffer make Viper/Ibuki(Actually, what's so hard about Ibuki outside her jump cancel ultra?!) any easier, like, at all?! SFIV already have a buffer for special attacks and special attacks is all that C-Viper ever does, yet she's still the highest execution character in the game!

I think James is arguing for the value of execution in general. With this change, I guess he sees sort of changing tide.

 

[Dahbomb]

Armor Piercer is a special attack, even SFIV have a buffer for special attacks! Does it actually have one for normal attacks?!

Pretty much everything related to Iron Man are tight links involving his normals. Some are 1 framers.

Many of the TAC infinites you see people using involve some very specific timings as well and are made easier because of the buffer.

So yea there's definitely buffer on normals too otherwise you would see way more combo drops in this game.

People also claim that Vergil's Judgment Cut into cr.H is technically a 1f link but I don't believe that.

 

[Skilletor]

3 frame links definitely means the types of characters I enjoy will be easier and therefore less interesting for me for sf.


Edit: waiting for southwest to open. Evo bound! Getting married tomorrow 8n Vegas! #hype

 

[Zissou]

If you get hit by Foot Dive then you were out played.

He also has some substantial stones.

 

[jerry1594]

Man fuck Makoto... Fuerte tier character

 

[KidA Seven]

Working on it rn

Kadey is making it dude

 

[Sayad]

Man fuck Makoto... Fuerte tier character

Dude, no.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Yeah it's about that much. Otherwise doing stuff like Spencer Overhead into Armor Piercer would be like trying to do a 1 frame link (but when you actually try to do it, it's a lot easier than actually doing a 1f link).

Game has some hard execution mostly due to the sheer number of inputs you are doing at times in a short time. Stuff like Plink Mag Blasts, Morrigan fly cancels, rapid Seismos etc.

Not to mention character specific combos and height management etc. Even the top pros are dropping combos on Shuma. Marvel 3 has the highest baseline for execution of the major games being played just to function at a competitive level. It's just not really about links.

 

[petghost]

Man fuck Makoto... Fuerte tier character

Makoto is rad.


3s makoto is some shit I can imagine getting pissed about tho.

 

[Rhapsody]

Yeah it's about that much. Otherwise doing stuff like Spencer Overhead into Armor Piercer would be like trying to do a 1 frame link (but when you actually try to do it, it's a lot easier than actually doing a 1f link).

Game has some hard execution mostly due to the sheer number of inputs you are doing at times in a short time. Stuff like Plink Mag Blasts, Morrigan fly cancels, rapid Seismos etc.

That's pretty neat. I guess with those examples, it does make sense that there's a buffer.

 

[Azure J]

Man fuck Makoto... Fuerte tier character

Makoto is best Street Fighter tho.

 

[KidA Seven]

I hope EVO does a similar intro for SF4 as this one to show the audience all the previous sf4 winners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGEdW_tdjO4

 

[alstein]

https://twitter.com/jchensor/status/620769619788173314

Simply put, f--k what he said. It's a shit attitude that hurts the genre.

Nothing against him personally, but that attitude and the people who believe it- they hurt the genre.

I guarantee execution will still matter heavily in high level SFV.

Look at HDR. Sirlin simplified inputs in that. Execution still mattered. (don't say it didn't)
Look at KOF98. Simple inputs- execution matters.
VF5FS. Some simple input stuff is very high execution. (there are a few things on a couple of characters needlessly complex in VF)

Look at Damn Skullgirls- Mike Z intentionally designed inputs to be as easy as possible, and that game is VERY technical.

The only thing intentionally hard characters is often take cool characters and make them inaccessible for average players- and reduce character diversity. That wasn't a big problem in SFIV due to 40+ chars, but it would be a bigass problem in SFV.

I'll gladly sacrifice James Chen for more newer players sticking with it, and ultimately, James Chen types aren't going to do anything other than grumble- they're not going to quit.

I really hope Capcom sticks to its guns on this- I bet doing things this way is going to lead to more people sticking with it, and learning actual fundamentals instead of what we got with SFIV, which was just unfun to play against.

 

[Coffeeling]

This. If fun was all that mattered to all of you, you'd all be playing Yata right now.

Sadly, work matters and I can't be playing Yata right now ;__;

 

[Mr. X]

I really want to see Mike Z and James discuss that since they are both combo vid creators who love finding those super hard combos but Mike Z designed his game with a generous buffer and it still has enough freedom for super tight timing intensive shit if you explore.

If SFV is juggling combos, height and spacing will be strict. Not to mention meaty combos and having moves hitting on later active frames. 3f buffer doesn't matter if you have to hold forward to get in the right spot in time.

I say good riddance and I have really good execution and like high execution stuff and I think it's stupid (especially just frame shit like SCV Cervy).

 

[Coffeeling]

I've really begun hating long buffers. Just gets to the point where the game stops obeying you, even if you do your stuff clean.

 

[Mr. X]

I've really begun hating long buffers. Just gets to the point where the game stops obeying you, even if you do your stuff clean.

Stop mashing

 

[Lostconfused]

James is that dude who will sit there and does the mission combos until he can get them four times in a row. I think execution and the ability to pull off tight links is what he prides himself on most as a fighting game player, so I can see why he's a bit put off by SF5's mission statement of "fuck hard links".

Should play ASW games more.

David actually tweets a lot of gold during this execution discussion
https://twitter.com/ultradavid/status/620798565791633413
https://twitter.com/ultradavid/status/620773670080753664
https://twitter.com/ultradavid/status/620780037692723200

These are pretty good.