July Wrasslin' |OT|

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FlammableD said:
Tell me times Punk lied, go ahead. Not his word against someone else's word, provably lied.
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I'm a huge fan of the guy. However, Amann is going to do him. Wait until court, he'll win it. No way would Amann ever sign a person off if he was in that bad of a state, given his great record of care since he's been with WWE. Wrestlers now are probably the healthiest and they've ever been in WWE now.

Don't even start me on the horrific "Look at the fatty deposit on my back in the Rumble" thing, I personally couldn't see a thing as much as I wanted to.
 
I don't really care who wins the Punk/Amann lawsuit but I like to think there would be potential fireworks should it actually make it to trial

Maaaaaardy said:
Wrestlers now are probably the healthiest and they've ever been in WWE now.
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w4rV1q2.gif
 
Punk probably did have all those issues, but that information maybe never came across.

Whether it's Punks lack of communications skills, or people not listening don't know.
 
FlammableD said:
Tell me times Punk lied, go ahead. Not his word against someone else's word, provably lied.
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Punk says he was treated for a cyst on his back. The doctor says no, he wasnt.


That's all that has to be proven in this case and will be easily proven with accessible medical records. The doctor would not pursue this case otherwise if these records actually existed.
 
Sephzilla said:
I don't really care who wins the Punk/Amann lawsuit but I like to think there would be potential fireworks should it actually make it to trial



w4rV1q2.gif
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Lol, point taken but please watch Danielson in ROH. There's your answer why he's in the predicament he's in now. Cannot abuse the body like that...look at McGuinness and Morishima. Both retired and fucked.
 
So nothing then?

Punk presumably also has medical records to submit you forget.

Besides, we already know Punk got a settlement out of WWE. Clearly he had some sort of case against them then.
 
Fox318 said:
Except eveyone has talked about the medical team and vince pushing guys to often.

Mark Henry had that same issue with WWE.

They need to give guys time off. It should be mandatory.

I hope the lawsuit forced them to open up their medical records and really examine their work schedule.

Guys should not be traveling and wrestling 4-5 days a week.
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Fox telling the truth again.
 
Vince McMahon said:
It's a strange thing, because Vince's insistence on "no black or white, shades of grey characters" is what's also causing thing. I think we need more CLEAR directions on characters.
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Agreed that the shades of grey mentality encourages this sort of middle-of-the-road lack of commitment to a character's alignment and just breeds "generic A v. generic B" matchups where the crowd reaction is to near falls, spots, and chanting "this is awesome" sometimes.

But Bray is clearly defined as an evil asshole. That's on him. He needs to stop playing the super cool villain dude and just be evil.
 
Vince McMahon said:
Well, this case has nothing to do with his injury time, or someone else's issues with WWE - strictly what Punk said on a public platform. So...I think he's pretty screwed. I don't think anything else really comes into play here. I'd like to see WWE take more care as well, however.
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Punk said that he left due to not getting the money/position he was promised or deserved and he wanted time off which they refused to give him even when he gave advance notice.

Vince fucks over all of his guys with the independent contractor bullshit and no health care plans.

They need an off season and the company needs a better direction to make their product popular. Adding more content and more PPVs is only showing that they don't have any ideas anymore on how to make more money.

How long will it be before they try and get a tv deal to air Superstars, Main Event, and house shows?

Them forcing guys to work so much only shows that they lack vision in the creative department and their last 2 mania's are prime examples of that. Long planned out visions and feuds dropped because the head creative was so out of touch that people believed a blind rumor that surfaced.

Look at the sea of midcard guys they had holding back undertaker and bork. There is no reason why those guys can't have tv matches and give guys like Rollins and Cena.

Hell Brock was the most over guy last year and that was because he was off tv and away from this creative team.
 
FlammableD said:
Punk presumably also has medical records to submit you forget.
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Yeah, this. Amann can show up and say "Here, I diagnosed it as a cyst and did everything I could. I wasn't negligent." But if Punk's doctor who diagnosed the staph infection shows up and says "this was a staph infection and I don't understand how it was missed", I'm pretty sure that trumps Amann and his records. Basically the entire thing pivots around whether or not the staph infection shit was legit or not.

FlammableD said:
Besides, we already know Punk got a settlement out of WWE. Clearly he had some sort of case against them then.
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That was unrelated to this, most likely. That was about Punk not getting paid money he was owed.
 
FlammableD said:
So nothing then?

Punk presumably also has medical records to submit you forget.

Besides, we already know Punk got a settlement out of WWE. Clearly he had some sort of case against them then.
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Alright, fine.

"They just kept giving me zpaks" - The treatment for Staphs are zpaks, they were doing the right thing medically. They were at fault when they didn't take different action when it didn't work.

"I asked them to just cut it out numerous time and they flat out refused" - Staph infections cannot be cured by being cut out, they'll come back stronger than ever. It's one step of treatment, not a cure.

"It turned into MRSA" - Not saying he's lying, but he's got no proof other than words on a podcast in which he moans for 2 hours about literally everyone and everything.

So, there's two things he's at minimum mistaken with and a third in which he's given no proof. Hell, i've had MRSA from WWE's poor treatment of me. As much validity as Punk's claim, right?
 
Fox318 said:
Punk said that he left due to not getting the money/position he was promised or deserved and he wanted time off which they refused to give him even when he gave advance notice.

Vince fucks over all of his guys with the independent contractor bullshit and no health care plans.

They need an off season and the company needs a better direction to make their product popular. Adding more content and more PPVs is only showing that they don't have any ideas anymore on how to make more money.

How long will it be before they try and get a tv deal to air Superstars, Main Event, and house shows?

Them forcing guys to work so much only shows that they lack vision in the creative department and their last 2 mania's are prime examples of that. Long planned out visions and feuds dropped because the head creative was so out of touch that people believed a blind rumor that surfaced.

Look at the sea of midcard guys they had holding back undertaker and bork. There is no reason why those guys can't have tv matches and give guys like Rollins and Cena.

Hell Brock was the most over guy last year and that was because he was off tv and away from this creative team.
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No one is forcing wrestlers to do anything. However, if they got more benefits and health care, it's a win for everyone. Maybe more people would want to be wrestlers which leads to more chances finding stars.

Vince however sees it as losing money and lazyness. How can you get wrestlers motivated if they are part of a darn union!
 
Maaaaaardy said:
Alright, fine.

"They just kept giving me zpaks" - The treatment for Staphs are zpaks, they were doing the right thing medically. They were at fault when they didn't take different action when it didn't work.

"I asked them to just cut it out numerous time and they flat out refused" - Staph infections cannot be cured by being cut out, they'll come back stronger than ever. It's one step of treatment, not a cure.

"It turned into MRSA" - Not saying he's lying, but he's got no proof other than words on a podcast in which he moans for 2 hours about literally everyone and everything.

So, there's two things he's at minimum mistaken with and a third in which he's given no proof. Hell, i've had MRSA from WWE's poor treatment of me. As much validity as Punk's claim, right?
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A doctor told him it turned into MRSA. That doctor is his proof.
 
jmdajr said:
No one is forcing wrestlers to do anything. However, if they got more benefits and health care, it's a win for everyone. Maybe more people would want to be wrestlers which leads to more chances finding stars.

Vince however sees it as losing money and lazyness. How can you get wrestlers motivated if they are part of a darn union!
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By booking them better?
 
Sephzilla said:
A doctor told him it turned into MRSA. That doctor is his proof.
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WHICH doctor? Where's the medical records? Exactly. Until it appears to light, and not saying I think he's lying, he's more likely right than wrong, but he hasn't proven shit. This is why the trial will be interesting. It's sometimes easy for even the most skilled doctors in the world to miss things, this was a progression. But even so, they should of gone on from zpak treatment and realised it wasn't working. Wrong on both sides, Punk is notoriously hard headed and temperamental, it's easy to think they just broke communication down to be perfectly honest. I doubt Punk was one for sticking around if he didn't get his own way with the cutting out, which would of been a stupid move.
 
Maaaaaardy said:
Alright, fine.

"They just kept giving me zpaks" - The treatment for Staphs are zpaks, they were doing the right thing medically. They were at fault when they didn't take different action when it didn't work.

"I asked them to just cut it out numerous time and they flat out refused" - Staph infections cannot be cured by being cut out, they'll come back stronger than ever. It's one step of treatment, not a cure.

"It turned into MRSA" - Not saying he's lying, but he's got no proof other than words on a podcast in which he moans for 2 hours about literally everyone and everything.

So, there's two things he's at minimum mistaken with and a third in which he's given no proof. Hell, i've had MRSA from WWE's poor treatment of me. As much validity as Punk's claim, right?
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Do you have a doctor who treated you for MRSA you can get your records from?

Maaaaaardy said:
WHICH doctor? Where's the medical records? Exactly. Until it appears to light, and not saying I think he's lying, he's more likely right than wrong, but he hasn't proven shit. This is why the trial will be interesting. It's sometimes easy for even the most skilled doctors in the world to miss things, this was a progression. But even so, they should of gone on from zpak treatment and realised it wasn't working. Wrong on both sides, Punk is notoriously hard headed and temperamental, it's easy to think they just broke communication down to be perfectly honest. I doubt Punk was one for sticking around if he didn't get his own way with the cutting out, which would of been a stupid move.
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I'm not sure why you're acting like he's in court with you, right now, in this thread.
 
Fox318 said:
Except eveyone has talked about the medical team and vince pushing guys to often.

Mark Henry had that same issue with WWE.

They need to give guys time off. It should be mandatory.

I hope the lawsuit forced them to open up their medical records and really examine their work schedule.

Guys should not be traveling and wrestling 4-5 days a week.
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And Punk and his legal team have 24 months to "get a leg" to stand on, which is plenty of time to dig up dirt.
 
BFG package is nice: I'll let others handle the obvious jokes about the arena tour showing things like the backside of the bleachers in whatever high school they'll be in, but fan-focused perks like this help out a company's image and TNA needs that badly.
 
¡HarlequinPanic!;172659461 said:
BFG package is nice: I'll let others handle the obvious jokes about the arena tour showing things like the backside of the bleachers in whatever high school they'll be in, but fan-focused perks like this help out a company's image and TNA needs that badly.
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I just can not think of one person left in TNA that I would be hyped enough to pay to meet
 
Maaaaaardy said:
WHICH doctor? Where's the medical records? Exactly. Until it appears to light, and not saying I think he's lying, he's more likely right than wrong, but he hasn't proven shit. This is why the trial will be interesting. It's sometimes easy for even the most skilled doctors in the world to miss things, this was a progression. But even so, they should of gone on from zpak treatment and realised it wasn't working. Wrong on both sides, Punk is notoriously hard headed and temperamental, it's easy to think they just broke communication down to be perfectly honest. I doubt Punk was one for sticking around if he didn't get his own way with the cutting out, which would of been a stupid move.
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Why would he ever publicly reveal that information? There's no reason for him to ever do that beyond getting taken to court for it.
 
I thought TNA TV airings ended in September. Not sure what the point of them putting on a show in October would be. Unless this show isn't in October.
 
Tour - Looking at bleachers, yay!

Fantasy booking - Could be great, could be awful. And it's probably with Corgan so he'll just be a mark the whole time talking about "Hey, I was in ECW!"

Q&A - Outside of Angle, would you really want to hear from anyone else...

Lunch! - At this rate everyone's off to McDonalds.

Walk down the ramp - So, Axxess then.

Photo with the title - Not my sort of thing.

Sit with Josh Matthews - Aside from being a dickhead, why would you just want to...sit next to him?

Get my star promo - Get my what?

TNA Main Event Contender Credential - A what?

Poster - $2.

All of this can't be worth more than...100$ surely? Half of it is just cheap pictures and stuff that makes no sense. Like my STAR promo!
 
Cagey said:
Agreed that the shades of grey mentality encourages this sort of middle-of-the-road lack of commitment to a character's alignment and just breeds "generic A v. generic B" matchups where the crowd reaction is to near falls, spots, and chanting "this is awesome" sometimes.

But Bray is clearly defined as an evil asshole. That's on him. He needs to stop playing the super cool villain dude and just be evil.
Click to expand...

WWE isn't helping matters by encouraging people to hold up their phones with the lights on.
 
jmdajr said:
No one is forcing wrestlers to do anything. However, if they got more benefits and health care, it's a win for everyone. Maybe more people would want to be wrestlers which leads to more chances finding stars.

Vince however sees it as losing money and lazyness. How can you get wrestlers motivated if they are part of a darn union!
Click to expand...

Except the wrestlers are being forced:

  • to show up at TV at 1 for a 6 pm taping
  • they are forced to show up even if they have no match planned
  • forced to show up for things like going to Iraq during their off time(see RVD)
  • they are forced to sign away their health care right
  • they are forced to sign their name away (I wouldn't have a problem with this but see next point)
  • They are independent contractors that can't work other events in their field. Keith Olbermann can work on a Netflix show and do his TV show but wrestlers can't do such a thing.

Most of these things would be fine but WWE controls the marketplace and seeks to destroys anything that looks like it might compete. Its similar to what the NFL did with the USFL except those organizations had player unions.

WWE doesn't have player unions because Vince pays his few stars good money (Cena, Orton, Brock) and the other people who could move the ball would have no value in any other wrestling organization (Kane and Big Show)

I'm more inclined to believe Punk simply because every person who has left WWE has never had anything good to say about the schedule or working conditions.
 
Jamie OD said:
Definitely because of the injuries. Nigel was so beaten up he was never the same after it. As awesome as that match was he became a physical wreck and Danielson's shoulder problems began around that period too if I remember correctly.
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Maaaaaardy said:
But the hep stuff of McGuinness too, i've heard of him being on steroids, never thought that myself due to his look but not saying it's wrong. And heard about an infamous spot where he headbutted the post? Never seen that either though. UK, so the DVDs aren't readily available here, especially back during that feud.

Danielson's shoulder issues were pressing yeah, but it was more his Morishima matches that fucked him up royally, they were BRUTAL.
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I think the shoulder got fucked up during the hour long title match against Cabana.
 
Fox318 said:
Except the wrestlers are being forced:

  • to show up at TV at 1 for a 6 pm taping
  • they are forced to show up even if they have no match planned
  • forced to show up for things like going to Iraq during their off time(see RVD)
  • they are forced to sign away their health care right
  • they are forced to sign their name away (I wouldn't have a problem with this but see next point)
  • They are independent contractors that can't work other events in their field. Keith Olbermann can work on a Netflix show and do his TV show but wrestlers can't do such a thing.

Most of these things would be fine but WWE controls the marketplace and seeks to destroys anything that looks like it might compete. Its similar to what the NFL did with the USFL except those organizations had player unions.

WWE doesn't have player unions because Vince pays his few stars good money (Cena, Orton, Brock) and the other people who could move the ball would have no value in any other wrestling organization (Kane and Big Show)

I'm more inclined to believe Punk simply because every person who has left WWE has never had anything good to say about the schedule or working conditions.
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This is my issue though, the schedule is brutal but people manage. It's a brutal sport anywhere, WWE, NJPW, indies, it's not easy. If you can't hack WWE then leave like Gabriel did. He's making enough money on the indies. Work the indies if you want. You don't see Bryan, Cesaro, Cena, Orton, Ziggler or anyone else complaining.

I'm sure it is hard, but i'm also sure it's not impossible, plenty of people do it. Including a man in his 70's.
 
Toki767 said:
I thought TNA TV airings ended in September. Not sure what the point of them putting on a show in October would be. Unless this show isn't in October.
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It does end in Sept, and BFG is in Oct. They're optimistic they'll survive and have a PPV roster and distribution ready, plus get TV to hype it (but I guess hype can be done on youtube, twitter, and their site so that's probably the most minor thing they have to worry about).
 
Ziggler has the same problem Zack Ryder has. If they spent a fraction of the time they spend complaining on actually improving their character they'd be higher up in the company
 
Ithil said:
Ziggler spends 90% of his time complaining.
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Still hits the gym, makes the towns, wrestles his matches every single week. With WWE you know what you sign up to, and you have your option to leave.

Anyway, if we're all moaning about work conditions in WWE what about crap like IWA:MS and CZW, their guys are WAY worse off.
 
Fox318 said:
Except the wrestlers are being forced:

  • to show up at TV at 1 for a 6 pm taping
  • they are forced to show up even if they have no match planned
  • forced to show up for things like going to Iraq during their off time(see RVD)
  • they are forced to sign away their health care right
  • they are forced to sign their name away (I wouldn't have a problem with this but see next point)
  • They are independent contractors that can't work other events in their field. Keith Olbermann can work on a Netflix show and do his TV show but wrestlers can't do such a thing.

Most of these things would be fine but WWE controls the marketplace and seeks to destroys anything that looks like it might compete. Its similar to what the NFL did with the USFL except those organizations had player unions.

WWE doesn't have player unions because Vince pays his few stars good money (Cena, Orton, Brock) and the other people who could move the ball would have no value in any other wrestling organization (Kane and Big Show)

I'm more inclined to believe Punk simply because every person who has left WWE has never had anything good to say about the schedule or working conditions.
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They ain't forced. You can quit! :)

I understand your point though. If you want to work there it's hell.
 
Maaaaaardy said:
This is my issue though, the schedule is brutal but people manage. It's a brutal sport anywhere, WWE, NJPW, indies, it's not easy. If you can't hack WWE then leave like Gabriel did. He's making enough money on the indies. Work the indies if you want. You don't see Bryan, Cesaro, Cena, Orton, Ziggler or anyone else complaining.

I'm sure it is hard, but i'm also sure it's not impossible, plenty of people do it. Including a man in his 70's.
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No, you don't. But when you do, ask Cesaro or Ziggler what happens. Ask Bryan what happens when you DON'T complain. He just seemed to go along with everything and now he possibly doesn't even have a future wrestling.

That's the mindset of these people from what I can tell. If you complain, you get punished, if you don't complain enough, you could get hurt. "it's a brutal sport anywhere" is a terrible excuse, because it doesn't HAVE to be a brutal sport. There are plenty of ways to change it and make it safe for the performers.
 
Zigglers issue is the same issue many of the guys have.

He is sub 6'2" and if Vince and HHH feel like they can beat you up (remember this is their fantasy brain where a bodybuilder is the best fighter) they can't see you on top.
 
Ithil said:
Ziggler spends 90% of his time complaining.
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When you were presented as a star during the brand split era, and then given shit all to do after it ended, I think I would complain a lot too. Especially after they take away your only shot at getting a top title by combining the two world titles in the company.
 
Maaaaaardy said:
Anyway, if we're all moaning about work conditions in WWE what about crap like IWA:MS and CZW, their guys are WAY worse off.
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Hitting the same spots 5 days a week with little downtime is far worse than hitting big spots once every 3 or so weeks. Imagine hitting a bone constantly every single day as opposed to having several days off to rest said bone.

Jun Kasai would be dead if he worked as often as a WWE schedule doing what he does. It is the worst schedule to have, and it's why I don't knock guys like Kane or Nash working lightly and not taking as many bumps as often as the young guys. Fuck killing myself for this job.
 
jmdajr said:
They ain't forced. You can quit! :)

I understand your point though. If you want to work there it's hell.
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Except even when they do quit they still try to own your rights (See Brock Lesnar)

They took Brock to court saying he couldn't work in any field but they would take him back but not on his original deal.
 
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