Tom Brady's Suspension Appeal News

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The Albatross said:
Normally I would agree with you if you're shoveling rocks for a living making $9/hour, but one of the unfortunate requirements of high profile athletes is that there are minimum expectations that they're not going to be complete garbage human beings. They perform on the field for 16 Sundays of the year, show up for practice, give an interview or two to the press, and then they're expected not to throw their girlfriends on a stack of guns and drag her by her hair around the house. As long as they fulfill these minimum requirements, they're paid around $10,000,000/year of profits generated by the fans of the NFL.
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Ah so different laws and standards for each class. And who cares if it's one of most competitive industries in the country, you are LUCKY to have that job! It's not from all of those absurd hours you put in for your craft or the hard work, it's just god given talent and luck! Not to mention how short of a career it is and what it does to your body! You're making millions to play a game! You're so lucky! Idc if your boss is making billions and you're actually worth twice what they're paying you due to a salary cap! You're so lucky to work for the NfL!

Ugh. I understand the world isn't fair. We can try though.
 
KHarvey16 said:
Why would they give them paper copies of a conversation they already had?
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Because the ball handlers -- McNally and Jastremski -- deleted text messages from their phones before handing them over to the investigators, too.

From the Wells report concerning one conversation Jastremski had (Jastremski: "Tom is acting crazy about balls", "Ready to vomit"):
According to Renaissance, the recipient cannot be identified (and is referenced as recovered-19) because these messages had been deleted, but were still partially recoverable by the forensic tools used to image Jastremski‟s cell phone. Although Renaissance was able to retrieve limited information about certain deleted messages from Jastremski‟s phone, the contact information could not be fully recovered. In addition, Renaissance was unable to determine with certainty when the recovered messages were deleted or whether there were other relevant deleted messages (i.e., deleted messages that left no recoverable information at all).
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We also don't know with who else Brady might have spoken with concerning Deflategate. All they got were tampered with phones from five or six low-level employees.
 
He destroyed his phone because he was cheating on Giselle and he didn't want to get crucified like Tiger Woods or Bill Clinton. Brady never cheated. In football.

Damn millennials aren't happy until they've had a peak in every phone.
 
TheDrizzlerJ11 said:
I'd almost be okay with that if it wasn't for the monopoly distinction. It's amazes me how my fellow Americans want even more of an oligarchy. I understand where you're coming from but I disagree with it. Your line of thinking is dangerous and undermines our legal system. .
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Is not my line of thinking, is how things are, when you have a high profile employee doing stuff that will make the public opinion condemn such acts, they are going to look at the organization this person belongs to, and by association public perception will go "If Joe Player did X which is repugnant, and Company A is receiving him with open hands, that means Company A supports X act"

When Donald Trump talks he is not only hurting his image, but it also hurting the image of the party he belongs to, and the same exact reason Two TV stations cut ties with him, because the effects are real.
 
Simply Sarah said:
Uh, why the all caps "ALLEGEDLY"? Everything else aside, the Wells report simply said "more likely than not" and it has had its methodology hammered fairly hard by quite reasonable sources. I'm honestly not sure what the truth is but that's far from being caught red handed.

We have a situation where the NFL had an utterly bizarre ball management policy given we want to treat this as such a big deal right now. The default punishment for over and under inflated balls was a tiny fine. It most likely would have gone nowhere outside of a massive media push that got almost all the facts wrong initially and made the situation sound much more extreme than it turned out to be.

I should also point out that the idea that someone can be a fair arbitrator of an appeal on a ruling they made themselves is a bit terrifying to me.
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The allegedly isn't about Brady, it's about the criminals. I was stressing how we love to find celebrities guilty before proven innocent.
 
TheDrizzlerJ11 said:
Ah so different laws and standards for each class. And who cares if it's one of most competitive industries in the country, you are LUCKY to have that job! It's not from all of those absurd hours you put in for your craft or the hard work, it's just god given talent and luck! Not to mention how short of a career it is and what it does to your body! You're making millions to play a game! You're so lucky! Idc if your boss is making billions and you're actually worth twice what they're paying you due to a salary cap! You're so lucky to work for the NfL!

Ugh. I understand the world isn't fair. We can try though.
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You seem to be completely missing the point. Athletes are much much more than their on the job performance, they know that, hence the off the job sponsors, showing up at charity events, paid events, etc. They know the world they are getting into, they signed that contract of course they should be held accountable for what they do 'off the job' (there is no off the job for an professional athlete).
 
chadskin said:
Because the ball handlers -- McNally and Jastremski -- deleted text messages from their phones before handing them over to the investigators, too.

From the Wells report concerning one conversation Jastremski had (Jastremski: "Tom is acting crazy about balls", "Ready to vomit"):


We also don't know with who else Brady might have spoken with concerning Deflategate. All they got were tampered with phones from five or six low-level employees.
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Other conversations or people not identified prior to handing over the phone or transcripts would be outside the scope anyway. They couldn't look at them.

What was the result of the text messages from the handlers being pulled from the wireless provider?
 
This isn't justice. Justice would have been banning Brady from the NFL for one season and stripping the Pats of their Sham Bowls. This is progress.

I hope Brady reveals more and more through his appeals and lawsuits that the Patriots were a Sham Dynasty without morals.
 
If he takes it to court, the NFL should make sure it drags on just long enough so he'd be suspended for the playoffs. Now that would be justice.
 
Zizbuka said:
If he takes it to court, the NFL should make sure it drags on just long enough so he'd be suspended for the playoffs. Now that would be justice.
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NFL Attorney: We call Deflated Ball #3 to the stand.

...

Court Reporter: It's the 190 day on the stand for Deflated Ball #3, and he still hasn't said a word.
 
JABEE said:
This isn't justice. Justice would have been banning Brady from the NFL for one season and stripping the Pats of their Sham Bowls. This is progress.

I hope Brady reveals more and more through his appeals and lawsuits that the Patriots were a Sham Dynasty without morals.
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Zizbuka said:
If he takes it to court, the NFL should make sure it drags on just long enough so he'd be suspended for the playoffs. Now that would be justice.
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Justice wihout logic isnt Justice, is revenge.
 
KHarvey16 said:
Other conversations or people not identified prior to handing over the phone or transcripts would be outside the scope anyway. They couldn't look at them.

What was the result of the text messages from the handlers being pulled from the wireless provider?
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Well, that's what they wanted to do:
Specifically, the investigative team asked for the production of “documents and email/text messages (including on [Mr. Brady’s] phone)” during the period from September 1, 2014 to the present that fell within specified “categories of information,” including “non-privileged communications concerning the preparation of game balls, . .. the ball preparation process, inflation of balls, deflation of balls, providing balls to game officials and the movement of footballs between the officials’ locker room and the playing field.” In addition, investigators requested the production of “text messages or other communications between Mr. Brady, John Jastremski, Dave Schoenfeld and Jim McNally from September 1, 2014 to the present regardless of subject, as well as a log of the above calls between Mr. Brady and those individuals since January 17, 2015.”
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As it's a private investigation, they couldn't just pull the text messages from the carrier. I'm not even sure they'd be allowed to if one of them gave their consent to it.
 
Arrogant Bastard said:
You seem to completely missing the point. Athletes are much much more than their on the job performance, they know that, hence the off the job sponsors, showing up at charity events, paid events, etc. They know the world they are getting into, they signed that contract of course they should be held accountable for what they do 'off the job' (there is no off the job for an professional athlete).
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Losing sponsors isn't the same as being terminated from a company that has a monopoly. And you're all for the possibility of an innocent man losing his career over allegations. It doesn't have to be this way but the people with power have to be willing to change how the public perceives this and educate them on how protecting this criminals rights is the only way to protect our innocent employees as well. Just release a statement saying you respect the legal process.
 
It definitely doesn't reflect well on Brady that he destroyed his phone. If anything that further places a cloud on his claimed innocence.

Having said that Brady was not going to hand over his phone, or any relevant text messages, to the NFL regardless if he destroyed his phone or not. The fact the NFL is focusing so much on this is more of a PR move than anything and so far it is accomplishing its goal.
 
TheDrizzlerJ11 said:
Losing sponsors isn't the same as being terminated from a company that has a monopoly. And you're all for the possibility of an innocent man losing his career over allegations. It doesn't have to be this way but the people with power have to be willing to change how the public perceives this and educate them on how protecting this criminals rights is the only way to protect our innocent employees as well. Just release a statement saying you respect the legal process.
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The USFL case exemplifies how powerful the NFL is.

They agree they have a monopoly and it's unconstitutional, but it was then laughed off as nothing.

The NFL has been having it's PR machine running on overdrive the last two years.
 
TheDrizzlerJ11 said:
Losing sponsors isn't the same as being terminated from a company that has a monopoly. And you're all for the possibility of an innocent man losing his career over allegations. It doesn't have to be this way but the people with power have to be willing to change how the public perceives this and educate them on how protecting this criminals rights is the only way to protect our innocent employees as well. Just release a statement saying you respect the legal process.
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I'm not saying it is the same, I'm setting up the idea that a professional athlete is much more than a standard American worker. You know there is a vast difference between being the QB for an NFL team and a stockboy. Who has lost their career over mere allegations?
 
Caja 117 said:
Justice wihout logic isnt Justice, is revenge.
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No. That is justice to me. This isn't revenge. This is making things right. The Patriots and Brady cheated their way to a Dynasty*.

They were not only caught before the Super Bowl, but they were able to still compete in the league's marquee game. Brady's response to inquiry was to stone wall and destroy evidence.

At least the NFL isn't the party destroying the evidence before public inquiry and the courts could get involved as was seen with SpyGate.

It is very logical to take away championships the Patriots did not earn, and to suspend players that brazenly cheated and destroyed the evidence of said cheating while the investigation was in progress.
 
TheDrizzlerJ11 said:
Losing sponsors isn't the same as being terminated from a company that has a monopoly. And you're all for the possibility of an innocent man losing his career over allegations. It doesn't have to be this way but the people with power have to be willing to change how the public perceives this and educate them on how protecting this criminals rights is the only way to protect our innocent employees as well. Just release a statement saying you respect the legal process.
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Masses are not going to care, is how it works, they will condemn the player and not give them the benefit of the doubt, there is no educating this, and more when you have sensational media that makes money from adding spice to the situation. just like The Whole Deflegate is bigger because of the sensationalist media around it and any other Sports controversy as of recent memory.

JABEE said:
No. That is justice to me. This isn't revenge. This is making things right. The Patriots and Brady cheated their way to a Dynasty*.

They were not only caught before the Super Bowl, but they were able to still compete in the league's marquee game. Their response to inquiry is to shut down and destroy evidence.

At least the NFL isn't the party destroying the evidence before public inquiry and the courts could get involved as was seen with SpyGate.

It is very logical to take away championships the Patriots did not earn, and to suspend players that brazenly cheated and destroyed the evidence of said cheating while the investigation was in progress.
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So glad you are not a Judge, or are you...?.
 
chadskin said:
Well, that's what they wanted to do:


As it's a private investigation, they couldn't just pull the text messages from the carrier. I'm not even sure they'd be allowed to if one of them gave their consent to it.
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The technical inability to do so with Brady's messages was mentioned specifically earlier.
 
Statement from Tom Brady's agent, Don Yee:

"The Commissioner’s decision is deeply disappointing, but not surprising because the appeal process was thoroughly lacking in procedural fairness.

Most importantly, neither Tom nor the Patriots did anything wrong. And the NFL has no evidence that anything inappropriate occurred.

The appeal process was a sham, resulting in the Commissioner rubber-stamping his own decision. For example, the Wells investigative team was given over 100 days to conduct its investigation. Just days prior to the appeal hearing, we were notified that we would only have four hours to present a defense; therefore, we didn’t have enough time to examine important witnesses. Likewise, it was represented to the public that the Wells team was ‘independent’; however, when we requested documents from Wells, our request was rejected on the basis of privilege. We therefore had no idea as to what Wells found from other witnesses, nor did we know what those other witnesses said.

These are just two examples of how the Commissioner failed to ensure a fair process.
Additionally, the science in the Wells Report was junk. It has been thoroughly discredited by independent third parties.

Finally, as to the issue of cooperation, we presented the Commissioner with an unprecedented amount of electronic data, all of which is incontrovertible. I do not think that any private citizen would have agreed to provide anyone with the amount of information that Tom was willing to reveal to the Commissioner. Tom was completely transparent. All of the electronic information was ignored; we don’t know why. The extent to which Tom opened up his private life to the Commissioner will become clear in the coming days.

The Commissioner’s decision and discipline has no precedent in all of NFL history. His decision alters the competitive balance of the upcoming season. The decision is wrong and has no basis, and it diminishes the integrity of the game.”
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Arrogant Bastard said:
I'm not saying it is the same, I'm setting up the idea that a professional athlete is much more than a standard American worker. You know there is a vast difference between being the QB for an NFL team and a stockboy. Who has lost their career over mere allegations?
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My point is their shouldn't be a difference. These guys are athletes and you love them for what they do on the field not off. If you're telling your kids they're also role models you're doing it wrong.

Also, the stock boy Id be more okay with it. Other companies besides the NFL hire stock boys. That Linebacker though, well he just needs to sell all his assets he can no longer afford and be glad he was so lucky to have the time he did! Why are we so okay with giving a monopoly additional power over it's employees?
 
phanphare said:
I hope this goes to court and the NFL gets ripped to shreds


signed,

a Panthers fan
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I'll second this as a Texans fan.

It's bullshit that a lot of people in this thread and elsewhere are all up I'm arms about this. But no one gives a shit when David Carr admits to doing the same thing. Several other qbs have admitted it's pretty common. And that no one even knew of this rule or even cared about the inflation of footballs until this. Add in the fact that the NFL could have stopped it but instead didn't. And the fact that it wasn't 11 out of 12 balls as erroneously reported by Mortensen.

Its a bunch of bullshit from the start, been handled like crap from the start. None od y'all would give a shit if it was some losing team that was caught, like the falcons were for piping in noise to the stadium.
 
TheDrizzlerJ11 said:
Ah so different laws and standards for each class. And who cares if it's one of most competitive industries in the country, you are LUCKY to have that job! It's not from all of those absurd hours you put in for your craft or the hard work, it's just god given talent and luck! Not to mention how short of a career it is and what it does to your body! You're making millions to play a game! You're so lucky! Idc if your boss is making billions and you're actually worth twice what they're paying you due to a salary cap! You're so lucky to work for the NfL!

Ugh. I understand the world isn't fair. We can try though.
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I think you need to step back and remember that you're saying that the world isn't fair for a guy like Greg Hardy, who was paid $13million to do nothing last season as a reward for seriously kicking the shit out of his girlfriend. :p

BUt, you are right, there is a different expectation when you're paid $10million in a very high profile career that requires you to be in the public eye, versus a low paid, low visibility job. If you're shoveling dirt for a living, you can beat the shit out of your girlfriend and expect not to get fired from your job (although some employers might), but when you're a high profile athlete, it's unfortunate for these poor SOBs, but one of the requirements is to try as hard as you can to not b a complete piece of shit human being.
 
captive said:
Its a bunch of bullshit from the start, been handled like crap from the start. None od y'all would give a shit if it was some losing team that was caught, like the falcons were for piping in noise to the stadium.
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Yeah, no one gave a shit about the fake crowd noise. And guess what? They still got punished.
 
TheDrizzlerJ11 said:
My point is their shouldn't be a difference. These guys are athletes and you love them for what they do on the field not off. If you're telling your kids they're also role models you're doing it wrong.
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Uh, many of those athletes are telling our kids they are role models and many of them are. Lets not act like millions of kids throughout the world are suddenly not hanging up posters on their walls, buying jerseys of their player of choice, etc. JJ Watt just showed up at a local YMCA to spend time with kids and tell them about life, football, how making the right decisions is the only way to move forward in life. They are role models to our children.

Why are we so okay with giving a monopoly additional power over it's employees?
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Who has been terminated over mere allegations?
 
JABEE said:
:jnc

You know what else altered the competitive balance of the league. Brady and the Patriots cheating their way through the playoffs over the past 15 years. Despicable organization.
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I've honestly seen this post from you in some form at least 200 times. Keep it up!
 
So much hate for the Patriots. Do people even realize that with the amount of air allegedly loss from the footballs, Brady would've only gained less than ONE millimeter more of a grip. Take out a ruler and see how much that would be. This whole thing has been a fucking circus. The most logical explanation is the balls lost air pressure due to weather and it'll be funny to see this verified this season since refs will be measuring footballs multiple times per game throughout the season.

"We're talking about a lot of nothing," said John Brenkus, host of ESPN Sports Science on our radio show Friday. "It's not a benefit to deflate the balls slightly." If you recall, 11 of the 12 Patriots footballs confiscated before the second half of the AFC Championship Game were found to have been underinflated. The normal air pressure range is 12.5-13.5 PSI (pounds per square inch). Some of these balls tested as low as 10.5. "In our tests at the Sports Science lab", continued Brenkus, "when you deflate a ball from 12.5 to 10.5, a person can only compress the ball an extra millimeter. That's half the width of a dime per side (of the ball). The loss of weight in the ball, equates to the weight of a one dollar bill."
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http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12226086
 
crimzonflame said:
At the end of the day, the Patriots will won the SB.
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Probably not this year. As the Pats fan, the only thing that'll truly annoy me is that the Patriots were looking to have a down year this year and the story will likely be "Pats can't win without deflating footballs!"

They're going to have a very mediocre to below average defense, their running game is significantly depleted, and Miami, New York, and the Bills (as well as conference foes like the Colts) made solid improvements to their teams in the off season. 2015 - 2016 season will definitely not be as good as 2014 - 2015, but because it's the season after the DeflateGate stuff, brainless automatons will post "RINGS SINCE DEFLATEGATE: ZERO" and I can do nothing but eat it.

Such is the unfair lot in life for being a fan of the GOAT.
 
The Albatross said:
I think you need to step back and remember that you're saying that the world isn't fair for a guy like Greg Hardy, who was paid $13million to do nothing last season as a reward for seriously kicking the shit out of his girlfriend. :p

BUt, you are right, there is a different expectation when you're paid $10million in a very high profile career that requires you to be in the public eye, versus a low paid, low visibility job. If you're shoveling dirt for a living, you can beat the shit out of your girlfriend and expect not to get fired from your job (although some employers might), but when you're a high profile athlete, it's unfortunate for these poor SOBs, but one of the requirements is to try as hard as you can to not b a complete piece of shit human being.
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That's not accurate. One of the requirements is to try as hard as you can to not be accused of being a shit human being.

I'm defending our rights, that's what respecting the legal process is. Do not say I'm defending the guilty.
 
TheDrizzlerJ11 said:
That's not accurate. One of the requirements is to try as hard as you can to not be accused of being a shit human being.

I'm defending our rights, that's what respecting the legal process is. Do not say I'm defending the guilty.
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Yes, but you keep talking about someone getting sacked for mere allegations of domestic violence, etc. Who?
 
First of all, I'm a huge Pats fan. I love Brady, Gronk, Edelman, Bill, all of em.


The NFL and ESPN are both businesses. At the end of the day, they are interested in what gets more money into their hands. There's no such thing as honest, unbiased reporting, and there's no such thing as honest, unbiased ruling from the NFL.

There are people who really do care about the game and love football, but those people are on the field or on the sidelines. I'm not arguing that Brady is innocent or guilty. It sounds like he's done some shady shit, but I also recognize that any drama with Brady is basically cash flowing into the hands of ESPN and the NFL. I'll take it all with a grain of salt.

That being said, how fucking cool would it be if Brady's return is in Week 6 @ Indianapolis?! Garoppolo is good enough to get the Pats through the first 5 weeks with a few wins, and then Brady gets to jog onto the field in Indianapolis, shoot a perfect smile at the cameras, flip off Goodell, then just absolutely tear the Colts defense an asshole that will bring a smile to even Belichick's face. I'm entirely convinced that Brady will begin with a small growl at kickoff that will turn into a full-fledged scream once he gets on the field that will somehow get louder and louder batcycle style for the entire game.
 
I dont think he should have been suspended but Brady handled it poorly

He should have just owned it and moved on

Destroying your phone come on now
 
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