Destiny |OT26| Like a Hat

LifEndz said:
Here's hoping you're right. I mean, this is the same company that thought shot package and hammer forged on a shotgun was a good idea.
Click to expand...

Bungie's learning curve is on full display with Destiny, aye.

FWIW, they did mention a longer term update to the vault space back when they announced the initial expansion:

We know there are a bunch of players in the world who don’t have enough space for Armor and General items. We’ll have a solution for you in the future.
Click to expand...
https://www.bungie.net/7_Bungie-Weekly-Update---03262015/en/News/News?aid=12707

Changes are coming with TTK.
 
Dumb question about raids.

Is there any benefit to running them on normal and then hard? I thought it was two separate things, but when I did a VoG on normal after hard I wasn't getting anything.

Seems like that answers my question, but I didn't feel like I was getting twice the drops during hard mode. So would doing normal then hard be different?
 
Vault Dweller 111 said:
Dumb question about raids.

Is there any benefit to running them on normal and then hard? I thought it was two separate things, but when I did a VoG on normal after hard I wasn't getting anything.

Seems like that answers my question, but I didn't feel like I was getting twice the drops during hard mode. So would doing normal then hard be different?
Click to expand...

If you do normal first, you get normal drops.

If you do hard second, you get hard drops.

If you do hard first, you get two rolls of hard drops, but it also means you can't do normal afterwards for normal drops.

It's most time efficient to do one hard.
 
Vault Dweller 111 said:
Dumb question about raids.

Is there any benefit to running them on normal and then hard? I thought it was two separate things, but when I did a VoG on normal after hard I wasn't getting anything.

Seems like that answers my question, but I didn't feel like I was getting twice the drops during hard mode. So would doing normal then hard be different?
Click to expand...

VoG hard mode gives you the drops for both normal and hard. Crota's End has separate drops for Normal and Hard. So yes and no?
 
lt519 said:
Skolas School:
1. SheHateMe
2. Boombloxer
3. Sengar
4. Inco (sunsinger warlock)
5. KINGofCRA5H-
6. Nightzoor
7. Reluctant-hero (courtesy of drizz and bomb)
8. matmanx1
9. DeviantBoi
10. Dark1421
11. juanbumo
12. Samphire
13. DaveS78
14. gmrtom7
15. TheWorthyEdge
16. Unknown_Hero (courtesy of Soss and ReignofSparrows)
17. ori0n378e

I think I'll have time tonight for another, starting at 8:00 EST. If your on the list speak up and I'll start sending PSN messages around then.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind getting on the list :)

And I may be around tonight, but would still like to get through this at some point!
 
I would think Rodeo would be a decent first perk since stability is low.

Boguester said:
Read the discussion in the last page :P

Although it sounds like Casket Mag might be garbage. I think having the element you want is most important (probably Arc or Void since BHam exists and will still be good post-nerf imo just not god tier). Surplus is excellent for the last perk and I think Speed Reload will be very nice in the middle column given the small mag. Performance Bonus is also nice for the last perk, but getting extra heavy per pack is hard to beat with Surplus. I'm mainly using Spear to DPS bosses, not kill a bunch of trash where PBonus would proc more.

For the first perk, I know that Hidden Hand's value is debated but I've personally seen it give me head shots that clearly weren't headshots when re-watching my saved videos. Frankly I don't believe that Planet Destiny video that tried to claim it was borderline useless. It's not a good test to have some goofball stand stationary while you shoot near his head. It doesn't replicate real game usage.

Besides HH, Outlaw is always decent although once again it doesn't play to Spear's strengths of boss DPS. Personally I don't like Triple Tap especially if you're stuck with a 3 mag since you'd have to crit every shot just to get one extra round before reloading. All of the first perks are debatable I guess.
Click to expand...
 
Vault Dweller 111 said:
Dumb question about raids.

Is there any benefit to running them on normal and then hard? I thought it was two separate things, but when I did a VoG on normal after hard I wasn't getting anything.

Seems like that answers my question, but I didn't feel like I was getting twice the drops during hard mode. So would doing normal then hard be different?
Click to expand...

Doing Hard first gives double drops so you'd get nothing for doing Normal later. In VoG you might have just been getting 6 shards instead of 3 so it didn't feel like double drops.

You can do Normal followed by Hard but the only place this is really worthwhile is the Normal Crota final boss fight since the secondary and heavy weapons only drop here. Doing Hard Crota first would mean you could never get these weapons. Technically there are minor reasons why people might do normal VoG first but it's really not worth your time.

Most long time players do Hard VoG, Normal Deathsinger and Crota, then Hard Crota if they want to clear the weekly raids.
 
noomi said:
Everything has the same chance.

- Gorgon Chest
- Mercury Chest
- PoE Chest
- Deathsinger
- Crota
- Atheon
- Nightfall
- Trials 6 Package
- Trials 8 Package
- Crucible
- Iron Banner
- Strike Playlists

Am I missing anything here guys?
Click to expand...

This is unknown. And most likely everything does not have the same chance. Let me comment on each thing below. Specific probabilities about certain things are unclear to me, others are stated from my memory of reading reddit posts about people who claimed to have collected a lot of data on peoples drops.

- Crucible
- Iron Banner
- Strike Playlists

It has been well documented that these three above have about a 1% chance to drop an exotic in any given single activity.



- Nightfall

It has also been well documented that NF has about a 40% chance to drop an exotic but this also includes exotic armor so the chance of any specific exotic is lower.




- Gorgon Chest
- Atheon

These have a higher chance to drop old exotics but they can't drop any DLC exotics from Year 1. And only exotic weapons. Best guess is that these have a lower chance to drop an exotic weapon than from NF. No chance to drop exotic armor.




- PoE Chest
- Mercury Chest

My guess is that the PoE chest and the Mercury chest both has the same chance to drop both exotic weapons and armor. So the chance of getting hawkmoon is lower because the pool is bigger. It also seems anecdotally like the PoE exotic chance is only once per week per account, or after that first try your chance at an exotic is much much lower than the first time.




- Deathsinger
- Crota


It has been documented that these have a higher chance to drop exotic weaponss than Atheon/Gorgons but also the exotics weapons drop possibility is more likely to be a TDB exotic than a vanilla exotic weapon.


- Trials 6 Package
- Trials 8 Package

I am not sure do these drop both weapons and armor? (EDIT: Drizzay says they only drop weapons.) I am not sure about these probabilities but you may have a higher chance at Hawkmoon because no armor drops.
 
It's a design choice more than a tech limitation. Their offered explanation satisfies the question of why we don't have a bigger Vault: visualizing such a large amount of weapons at once is beyond PS360's memory capabilities.

It doesn't, however, explain why we only have one Vault. If making a bigger Vault is not possible, then the logical solution would just be to give us more than one Vault of the current size. There's multiple terminals in the Tower and Reef and they all point to the same element - the generic Vault.

If one of those terminals let us open an Armory with all of our armor, another terminal for a Weapons Cache with all our guns, and a Stash of sorts for items we'd effectively get 3x the current space with better organization instead of the cramped mess we have now. Or just Vault 1, Vault 2 etc. with the current scheme if they want to half ass it.

Perhaps there's some other limitation they haven't told us about, but with the information they've provided so far I understand having a small vault but I still don't see why there's only one.

Then Deej's comments during E3 seem to suggest that picking and choosing is part of the experience they want us to have, and it clicked. It's not tech holding us back, it's just a design decision that follows their vision of the game. Our completionism is apparently not what they had in mind. So far it's possible, barely, to own every Exotic armor piece, every Raid armor set, PoE armor for all 4 factions, Iron Banner and Trials of Osiris sets for each of the three classes. Doing so requires you leave some stuff in the Vault though, you can't have every set on your character. If TK brings more gear than Vanilla did, then this sort of Pokédex achievement will just not be possible for multiple characters.

Weapons: several of us have every Exotic weapon, every Raid weapon, plus standout Legendaries (some Iron Banner/Trials stuff, some random drops, some Vendor items). But our inventory management is only possible with load out apps because every character and the Vault is usually just full of stuff. Passing around your "Raid load out" from one character to another involves a ton of "move to vault, take from vault, move to vault, take from vault" which, without an app automatizing it, would be beyond ridiculous. But it's still possible. With TK, our seams will burst and we'll have to make strange choices. I really can't imagine a single scenario where having to chose between keeping one weapon or another because I'm out of space would be a positive experience.

It's truly a shame. I always considered that the fact that you can eventually own every single piece of unique endgame loot in this game was a positive differentiator when compared to similar games. Seems they're throwing that out the window.
 
Boguester said:
Read the discussion in the last page :P

Although it sounds like Casket Mag might be garbage. I think having the element you want is most important (probably Arc or Void since BHam exists and will still be good post-nerf imo just not god tier). Surplus is excellent for the last perk and I think Speed Reload will be very nice in the middle column given the small mag. Performance Bonus is also nice for the last perk, but getting extra heavy per pack is hard to beat with Surplus. I'm mainly using Spear to DPS bosses, not kill a bunch of trash where PBonus would proc more.

For the first perk, I know that Hidden Hand's value is debated but I've personally seen it give me head shots that clearly weren't headshots when re-watching my saved videos. Frankly I don't believe that Planet Destiny video that tried to claim it was borderline useless. It's not a good test to have some goofball stand stationary while you shoot near his head. It doesn't replicate real game usage.

Besides HH, Outlaw is always decent although once again it doesn't play to Spear's strengths of boss DPS. Personally I don't like Triple Tap especially if you're stuck with a 3 mag since you'd have to crit every shot just to get one extra round before reloading. All of the first perks are debatable I guess.
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I missed that somehow, reading it now!
 
So here was my morning DGAF...

Take apart my entertainment system and move all of my living room into the dining room so the hardwood floor could be repaired. Floor guys come and find that the central air is leaking causing the issue. So now, I have to let the AC guy come tomorrow and then the floor guys.

Tonight I will have to use my monitor for gaming I guess...but I will sadly miss the surround sound. Life.

And in case anyone missed it, I got three, count em, three Suros' last night. One from a NF, one from 3x HM Crota Clears(shoutouts to all the GAFers that made those runs super fast and easy!), and one for coming in last place in IB. Come on game.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Bungie's learning curve is on full display with Destiny, aye.

FWIW, they did mention a longer term update to the vault space back when they announced the initial expansion:


https://www.bungie.net/7_Bungie-Weekly-Update---03262015/en/News/News?aid=12707

Changes are coming with TTK.
Click to expand...

Destiny
Pokemon
Bank.

Guns are now pokes and you store the stuff you don't want to delete in the app. Simply Transfer over once new weapon patch hits and your old guns are now good.
 
Deku Tree said:
- PoE Chest
- Mercury Chest

My guess is that the PoE chest and the Mercury chest both has the same chance to drop both exotic weapons and armor. So the chance of getting hawkmoon is lower because the pool is bigger.
Click to expand...

Yay, I'm a statistic! That's where I got my Hawkmoon, first ever PoE I ran. Then last night my Celestial Nighthawk dropped from PoE after I was gone for the weekend Xur sold it. All is right with the world.
 
The only checkpoint worth doing on normal is Crota. If you want something normal Crota drops (Black Hammer, Swordbreaker, etc.), you must run that (Crota, not the whole raid) before you run hard that week.

For everything else, just do hard.
 
A PvE Speer must have surplus. It is like having ruin wings for every class except it works.


Watch them fix surplus in TTK. I don't think the current behavior of the perk is intended.
 
To add another stupid/newbie question on the Raid stuff; I get the reward differences, but I'm not clear on how people keep and pass around checkpoints exactly. Does someone just get to that checkpoint on a alt character, then leaves it so he can just give it to others?
 
noomi said:
Everything has the same chance.

- Gorgon Chest
- Mercury Chest
- PoE Chest
- Deathsinger
- Crota
- Atheon
- Nightfall
- Trials 6 Package
- Trials 8 Package
- Crucible
- Iron Banner
- Strike Playlists

Am I missing anything here guys?
Click to expand...

Damn, okay so I guess keep doing what I've been doing, then. :-/

zewone said:
If you do normal first, you get normal drops.

If you do hard second, you get hard drops.

If you do hard first, you get two rolls of hard drops, but it also means you can't do normal afterwards for normal drops.

It's most time efficient to do one hard.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by two rolls of hard drops?

I'm still chasing Gjallarhorn and Hawkmoon, I only recently discovered you can do NM before HM to double your chances. Am I better off just going back to doing HM?

ReignofSparrows said:
The only checkpoint worth doing on normal is Crota. If you want something normal Crota drops (Black Hammer, Swordbreaker, etc.), you must run that (Crota, not the whole raid) before you run hard that week.

For everything else, just do hard.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's true, I've seen Gjallarhorns drop at Deathsingers NM.
 
ReignofSparrows said:
The only checkpoint worth doing on normal is Crota. If you want something normal Crota drops (Black Hammer, Swordbreaker, etc.), you must run that (Crota, not the whole raid) before you run hard that week.

For everything else, just do hard.
Click to expand...
Wait so if I've killed Crota on hard this week. I can't go to normal and try to get a Black Hammer or something?
 
Navy Bean said:
I'm sure one of you techno-geeks can explain why the old systems can't handle more vault space but it makes no sense to me. There are tons of RPG's on the old systems with page after page of inventory items/space... I assume it has to do with how the game manages inventory...
Click to expand...

Personally, I can not fully comprehend the failure to increase vault space, but I have talked with Bungie devs on several occasions.
The dumbed down version that I heard was that it is a memory management constraint.
Basically, they are using all available memory to show you all your vault items, with quick item overviews(PS3 and xbox360 lost these in the vault upgrade).
They also contributed "some" of the problem on the way they handle user data.
The database for items seems to be time sensitive, and they are trying to keep the size of the inventory low to make up for this.

If a Bungie employee wants to elaborate, or correct me, by all means, please do.
 
WipedOut said:
I would think Rodeo would be a decent first perk since stability is low.
Click to expand...

My personal opinion is that stability is not important for high impact, low RoF weapons. You have plenty of time to readjust the reticle before being able to shoot again. Some people like Ghaleon really hate recoil so stability has more value to them, everyone's mileage will vary.

Specifically for Rodeo: I don't think it does anything. Datto made a decent video that showed Rodeo didn't noticeably affect the recoil pattern for a higher RoF machine gun whereas Counterbalance significantly improved the left/right recoil movement. I have to imagine Rodeo would be even more useless for snipers although it's worth testing.
 
OkayRene said:
What do you mean by two rolls of hard drops?

I'm still chasing Gjallarhorn and Hawkmoon, I only recently discovered you can do NM before HM to double your chances. Am I better off just going back to doing HM?
Click to expand...

What I mean by two rolls of hard drops is that some people think you get normal and hard drops, but it's actually two chances at the hard drops.

So if you did hard Templar, you get two chances at a Fatebringer ( a hard mode only drop) or if you beat hard Crota, you get two chances at Word of Crota (a hard mode only drop), but 0 chances at a Black Hammer since it's a normal mode only drop.

You probably have a better chance at certain exotics by doing normal and then hard. Especially for Gorgon's chest.
 
noomi said:
Everything has the same chance.

- Gorgon Chest
- Mercury Chest
- PoE Chest
- Deathsinger
- Crota
- Atheon
- Nightfall
- Trials 6 Package
- Trials 8 Package
- Crucible
- Iron Banner
- Strike Playlists

Am I missing anything here guys?
Click to expand...
Nothing in the game is that simple though. Let's go into detail and complicate it a bit:

1. Nightfalls have a higher Exotic drop rate than playlist activities. But then they also have the unique chance of dropping armor (there's 4 armor pieces for every 3 weapons in the exotic table). Once you remove impossible weapon drops (8 bounty weapons + 2 Raid weapons) you end up with an Exotic loot table made up of 36 armor pieces and just 17 weapons. You're more likely to get an armor piece than a Hawkmoon from a Nightfall, assuming there isn't a specific weapon/armor weight distribution that I'm not aware of.

2. Deathsinger/Crota loot tables have a skewed distribution weighed with a strong bias for The Dark Below exotics - No Land Beyond, Dragon's Breath and 4th Horseman are more likely to drop than Hawkmoon there.

3. Gorgon Chest/Atheon (that's 4 rolls per reset with Normal/Hard) have a better chance than (2.) of dropping Hawkmoon because they draw from a smaller loot table (only Vanilla weapons with no specific weights that I'm aware of). There's only 14 Exotic Weapons in this table, but chances of actually having an Exotic drop are lowish (10-20% anecdotally?

4. Mercury chest in my experience has a very high Exotic drop rate, but it's coupled with an extremely large table (like Nightfall, it's Vanilla through HoW weapons + armor) so chances of getting a specific drop are not great. Silver/Gold packages are a good shot since they only drop weapons and HoW are all bounties so it's just 17 choices like DS/Crota but without the TDB bias.

You get the point. Not only is this game random as hell, it's also super hard to keep track of the crazy amount of small details and obscure loot table differences across activities.
 
lt519 said:
Skolas School:
1. SheHateMe
2. Boombloxer
3. Sengar
4. Inco (sunsinger warlock)
5. KINGofCRA5H-
6. Nightzoor
7. Reluctant-hero (courtesy of drizz and bomb)
8. matmanx1
9. DeviantBoi
10. Dark1421
11. juanbumo
12. Samphire
13. DaveS78
14. gmrtom7
15. TheWorthyEdge
16. Unknown_Hero (courtesy of Soss and ReignofSparrows)
17. ori0n378e

I think I'll have time tonight for another, starting at 8:00 EST. If your on the list speak up and I'll start sending PSN messages around then.
Click to expand...

Put me on the list too please

Really want to get one kill for my moments of triumph

Im getting close. Made round 4 with my close buddies before we burned out lol

Watched a few vids and I am feeling much better. Just have to optimize my loadout
 
What's the best Elder Cipher weapon? I think they're all kind of rubbish, right? Just finished the bounty and I'm not sure which one to pick..
 
Navy Bean said:
I'm sure one of you techno-geeks can explain why the old systems can't handle more vault space but it makes no sense to me. There are tons of RPG's on the old systems with page after page of inventory items/space... I assume it has to do with how the game manages inventory...
Click to expand...

Speculation based on what they've said and how the game works:

Unlike an SNES RPG with a 17 page inventory, Destiny's is different in a few non-trivial ways:

  • Your inventory is not a locally stored part of your game save file but rather pulled from their servers constantly. This is why you can move stuff around with websites and apps.
  • When opening the vault, it does more than just load the square icons with the gear you own. It's also loading the weapon models and stats so you can glance over them. While this sounds super simple, remember PS3 is marching along like a champ with less than 5% the system RAM as PS4.

Again, this explains why the Vault isn't bigger. It does not, however, address why there's only one Vault.
 
This thread is disgusting... we really need 2 threads for destiny. One for discussing the game, and one for matchmaking...

You can't hold a conversation in this thread... it moves 10+ pages per day.

We should not be on |OT| #26 for crying out loud...

Any time we try to open a new thread to discuss the game, it just gets locked...
 
Vault Dweller 111 said:
The last gen console thing seems like a lame excuse. If you want it to be 'fair' then just make it a $5 thing or something.

"Upgrade your vault storage to 1000 for just $5! Only available on Ps4 and Xbone"
Click to expand...

I'd pay lol.

--

I am very tempted to purchase the Titan figurine from the Bungie store. It just sucks it comes out next year - keeping my impulse purchase in check.
 
ethomaz said:
Kinda like... the final damage will be the same but they will change how the DoT works making it hard to kill you in 2 headshots + DoT.
Click to expand...

What is DOT

I hate acronyms man you guys all use them I never know what your talking about.

DOT
DPs him
AD's..................Im like speak English man.
 
^DoT = damage over time (like Thorn)

DPS = damage per second, how quickly you can do damage

ADS = aim down sights, zooming in with your weapon

Sometimes stuff gets complicated and it would take much longer to type out every word, lol.

zewone said:
So if you did hard Templar, you get two chances at a Fatebringer ( a hard mode only drop) or if you beat hard Crota, you get two chances at Word of Crota (a hard mode only drop), but 0 chances at a Black Hammer since it's a normal mode only drop..
Click to expand...

Plenty of people have gotten double Fate Bringers @Templar or double helmet drops @Atheon but I've never seen or heard of this happening in Crota's End. I've gotten Abyss Defiant and a chest piece at the bridge, or Word of Crota and a helmet at Crota but never 2x of the same item.

Has that happened to anyone? I wonder if they made some minor tweaks to the loot tables there.
 
Boguester said:
Plenty of people have gotten double Fate Bringers @Templar or double helmet drops @Atheon but I've never seen or heard of this happening in Crota's End. I've gotten Abyss Defiant and a chest piece at the bridge, or Word of Crota and a helmet at Crota but never 2x of the same item.

Has that happened to anyone? I wonder if they made some minor tweaks to the loot tables there.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think they tweaked it in CE so that if you do land on the same roll, it will re-roll one of them.
 
Wait...

so I've been mashing my R2 trigger with The Last Word and wondering why I'm not seeing much success...

then my friend tells me it has auto fire....

..............oh.................
 
Z3M0G said:
This thread is disgusting... we really need 2 threads for destiny. One for discussing the game, and one for matchmaking...

You can't hold a conversation in this thread... it moves 10+ pages per day.

We should not be on |OT| #26 for crying out loud...

Any time we try to open a new thread to discuss the game, it just gets locked...
Click to expand...

We had a separate matchmaking thread for a while. Just wasn't used much.

If the game allowed matchmaking, then this wouldn't be an issue. But apparently Bungie thinks it is not in our best interest to allow us to use matchmaking on content we've all completed 1000 times, e.g., a nightfall.
 
Liquidsnake said:
Why are you guys playing Iron Banner? For what reason?
Click to expand...

Etheric Light, completing Iron Banner armor set because fashion, getting a Spear for PvE (one in each element should be a standard part of everyone's load out for Nightfalls) all seem like valid reasons. I'd also say because PvP is fun, but Iron Banner lag has gotten so bad that it's a dicey statement :( didn't used to be this way...
 
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