KOMANI
KOMANI
That's fine, but it doesn't erase the fact it's a sentence not delivered well for western audience.
Edit: actually, it's not better than "let the legend live on"
SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
- Thread starter Love Deterrence
- Start date
- Status
Edit: actually, it's not better than "let the legend live on"
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
That entire conversation is awkward when you really think about it. Kiefer isn't talking at all while Ocelot monologues.
I don't really understand the opposition to the playable character in this game being the Medic or somebody else. I actually don't see the difference whether we play as Big Boss or the Medic because Big Boss's characterization is almost nil anyway. I'm sure for most of this game he will barely emote and have no attachment to anybody else besides "you're a good soldier m8." The most emotion you get from this guy is when he's going on about how much he loves war. I just don't see what difference it makes if we find out it was Medic or anybody else the entire time.
The thing about Big Boss is that everybody around him is more interesting. The real story in MGS3 was about the Boss, not Naked Snake. He sucks and he didn't deserve more than one game, but I guess here we are.
The thing about Big Boss is that everybody around him is more interesting. The real story in MGS3 was about the Boss, not Naked Snake. He sucks and he didn't deserve more than one game, but I guess here we are.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Yeah. He's batman.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
the Boss is a frowny face plot device with a bunch of retroactive development backloaded in the last 20 minutes.
What? This game was meant to show us exactly how Big Boss went from a tragically used pawn to an evil mercenary group leader. This game would have characterised WHO Big Boss was. Having us play as a guy who simply looks like Big Boss turns everything we thought we new about him being evil and turns that on its head.
It means Big Boss was never this "evil" guy, he never did any of the bad and evil things he was accused of, such as kill child soldiers and raise an army of child soldiers.
The only bad thing he did was stand back and let some other dude do everything for him.
BossDarkseid
Member
It wouldn't if he was still th master manipulator, making things happen from behind the curtain and manipulating friends and soldiers into laying down their lives for him and I don't think anyone's suggesting that he doesn't do the child soldier angle or stuff like that. I'm not sure anyone's expecting TPP to end at MG1 but at least end with us "knowing" what will happen to BB next because we can see the slippery slope yes on and know what happens to him.
It could work but it could easily torpedo.
Did you only read half of the spoilers? If it all turns out to be true, the reveal of true Big Boss will coincide with him performing a Bad Deed. And in typical Kojima fashion, you wouldn't have a reveal without an hour long cutscene explaining the subterfuge. I'm sure if the story plays out like the spoilers say, Big Boss will pop out and go on endlessly about what he's been doing while Pretend Boss has been doing whatever.
maybe the people who claimed BB was a monster, like Kaz, never knew there was a phony. I don't know, after seeing all the crap that BB has seen, I might turn to the dark side too.
Emedan
Member
Well I don't think it'd take away the rest of the game in the way the relative uniform of ME3's "endings" made the choices matter little at the climax but I understand your point. I don't mean this in a dick way but I still think you should calm down (unless it's just how internet stuff reads) and wait for reviews or the game because this is largely speculation and theories. I mean the "What's the point" could be answered in hte game, or simply by saying that you're just a puppet of BB and it's not WHO you are that's important (which would be the case if the player character was a blank slate rather than Jaeger or Solidus) but what you do and did during the game. That would all still could and wouldn't suddenly not matter because the proverbial rug was pulled out from under our feet.
THAT said...most of the speculation here in terms of the overarching plot could still work even if you play as BB the whole way through. I feel like for BB to become a monster their probably needs to be some element of duology because it'd be a lot harder for people to dislike, hate and demonize someone they played as because the actively participated in those actions. I know GTA is kinda big dumb fun but, not trying to be some white knight, but by the time I finished GTAV I didn't really like any of the main characters because of the awful things they did, even though in 99% of games you amy still kill a billion identikit bad guys etc.
Anyhoo i really don't mean it to sound like lecture mode or that I'm being condescending (apologies if it does), I just...probably get a bit Kojima when I try to explain something
Edit: As to your edit...one of the running theories would be that Kaz and Ocelot would be the only MB staff in on it so they'd err and coerce Player Character towards drawing Zero's attention through various things so BB would absolutely still be the puppet master...buut yeah. If you never got the sense BB was a presence even if he wasn't there (sorta like how you are well aware of the Emperor in Star Wars even tho I don't think he physically appears till Ep VI).
First off don't worry I find you very balanced haha, I don't see any animosity :>
I am quite upset to be honest but I hope it doesn't make me sound too rude, it's not directed to any of the readers here in this thread.
But to keep on with the SW reference - if this turns out to be true the impact on the series will be like that of the prequels - it will ruin the series for me and they will never go away, it can't be undone. I think it was much the same in a sense with MGS4, some things in there was just too much. After MGS3 the story seems to fall apart on its own weight - it is made needlessly complicated. As crazy as it might sound but to MGS3 I think the story was pretty coherent for the most part.
With that being the case, I don't agree that there needs to be a duality - cause the fact is Big Boss was never the true villain in a sense. He simply got screwed and it made him bitter, but not evil. Many MG plots have been rather limited in scope, it's about breaking free of control from this massive organisation that controls the world and the renegade's cause is quite admirable in that sense.
How Big Boss became the villain in MG 1-2 doesn't need a convoluted explanation. He simply tried to break free from his puppet masters- not liking how men in power used soldiers as their tools in exercising control with no regards of their lifes. MGS5 should've been about Big Boss's first fight with these people, cause it's the same people who declares him a villain, and makes him out to be one - just cause he didn't wanted to be their puppet anymore. In the Metal Gear games where he is the villain for the first time the same people in power sends another man to do their dirty work and take care of it - Solid Snake. (Granted BB fooled them)
A story about how this world reaching organisation runs the whole world and you as a player unknowingly as a soldier aid them in doing so just doing your job is a great story. How this organisation came to be could also be interesting, how they started to meet resistance is also interesting - especially since these all things are connected. But Kojima is a hack and can't write for shit so he ruined it all... Or so it feels (God I love MG)
I don't know if this really is how the story was supposed to be initially but it's always how I saw it.
Mercutiouk
Neo Member
This is exactly why this theory sucks if it is confirmed. There was always a subtle line dividing what BB has done and what was plain propaganda from Zero/Patriots. The child soldiers are good examples. MG2 and MGS always put it in a dubious position, he was supposed to save them but also raise them as soldiers. Which falls in line with the fact that he was trying to fix the mistake he did by helping Zero and the creation of the Patriots.
But now that means that he was never there? So basically from GZ all the way until MGS4 he is hiding in the shadows like Zero? That is a hell of a retcon in the story.
Two things to mention: 1) The trailers are worth peanuts when it comes to building theories. Yong that showed that Kojima removed the Boss AI from a scene inside MB in one trailer, just to show it again in a different one. Which means that he might insert/remove things just to mislead us.
2) This sentence might have a whole new meaning now; https://youtu.be/L7p7hOltWLg?t=5m42s
But having an army with ought a nation isn't evil though, in his eyes these kids would have been killed anyway so he took them, raised them as trained soldiers and let them have a home. That's not exactly evil.
Basically Kojima has retconned Big Boss into a hero who was only trying to rid Zero's AI system.
Did I read only half the spoilers? Dude I was here posting the spoilers as they came out, I even translated a couple and made a list of them.
Nothing is certain, but what I have gathered from the spoilers is that near the end of the game the base is infected so the real Big Boss comes out and kills everyone to save the world. This causes him to be consumed with guilt and becomes obsessed with finding and killing Skullface as well as becoming determined to create his "Outer Heaven" a place without government and a place where soldiers are free to fight.
The only dark thing we will witness is Big Boss killing his soldiers, not exactly evil if he was killing the infection and saving the world.
Apparently Kaz is in on it but it could explain why Kaz thought Big Boss was a monster if he was against BB having a body double?
Exactly, Big Boss was never the evil ruler he was made out to be, we was just taught the patriots lies through out the series. If Venom truly isn't Big Boss then I take that to mean Big Boss was actually a hero of the series along with Solod Snake.
BossDarkseid
Member
I don't think anyone was suggesting that BB was in the shadows till MGS4, just till the attack on MB but regardless...it's theories now and people who have played it and the guide says from the attack onwards you're in know doubt about e path BB is on so I wouldn't worry too much. As ambitious as Kojima is I'm not sure he'd even want to try the body double theory. Even with rhyming in his work I don't think he's made heavy use of the body doubles before so...yeah...we can only wait and see.
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
If the spoilers are correct, he's basically making the player character into an unknowing, and in the end, disposable puppet just to further his own goals, lure Skullface out of hiding or whatever it is he's trying to achieve, while he actually controls things in the background. Probably with the help of Ocelot who strings the player along. It's not what you'd have expected, it's not Big Boss gradually turning into a power-hungry child killing maniac, but it's an interesting idea, as he basically dicks over you, the player, in the end. It's one of those 4th wall breaking moments.
I dunno, it could work and it's a nice parallel to Raiden in MGS2, or Ocelot making himself believe he's Liquid to fool the AI system or whatever.
Pretty much official confrmation that there is a Big Boss with his left arm intact in The Phantom Pain:
http://www.game.co.uk/en/metal-gear...rs-edition-strategy-guide-only-at-game-653197
Which is a cleaner version of this picture from the leaked guide:
(Right click and open image in new window/tab to see full size version)
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20150823013609/metalgear/images/2/20/S0FRdxk.jpg
Interestingly, instead of shrapnel, this version of Big Boss appears to have a "V" shaped scar on the right side of his forehead.
Also, new Shinkawa artwork:
http://www.game.co.uk/en/metal-gear...rs-edition-strategy-guide-only-at-game-653197
Which is a cleaner version of this picture from the leaked guide:
(Right click and open image in new window/tab to see full size version)
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20150823013609/metalgear/images/2/20/S0FRdxk.jpg
Interestingly, instead of shrapnel, this version of Big Boss appears to have a "V" shaped scar on the right side of his forehead.
Also, new Shinkawa artwork:
Personally I still think the guide is throwing us off. It say it can't tell us who Ishmael is or if we play as anyone else other than Big Boss, then goes on to list evidence as to why they think Venom isn't Big Boss.
Kojima and KojiPro knew full well what the theories were and I wouldn't be surprised if it was intended to throw us off the scent.
For example, it's like me saying to the Chinese, "Hey, I've been explicitly told not to tell you how the U.S. Make their nukes, but let me just tell you how I think they make them".
It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever does it.
BossDarkseid
Member
Agreed. The way the guide conveys info is weird to say the least. Still looking forward to my CE version arriving and seeing what it says.
Just to let everyone know that PumaWarrior/Batmariafg, the guy who owns and took pictures of the original guide says "hi". He'd do it himself, but he's waiting for his account to get approved.
He's on Twitter here if you wanna say "hi" back:
http://twitter.com/batmariafg
He's on Twitter here if you wanna say "hi" back:
http://twitter.com/batmariafg
Pretty much official confrmation that there is a Big Boss with his left arm intact in The Phantom Pain:
http://www.game.co.uk/en/metal-gear...rs-edition-strategy-guide-only-at-game-653197
Which is a cleaner version of the this from the guide:
(Right click and open image in new window/tab to see full size version)
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20150823013609/metalgear/images/2/20/S0FRdxk.jpg
Interestingly, instead of shrapnel, this version of Big Boss appears to have a "V" shaped scar on the right side of his forehead.
Also, new Shinkawa artwork:
MY GOD I LOVE SHINKAWA ARTWORK!
Yeah it's truly weird, what I found the most weird was the evidence presented was evidence that came from places like GAF, Reddit, Yong, Pythonselkan etc. In my eyes it's throwing us off. Kojima knew SOMETHING would leak, he's not stupid.
His hair is also longer it seems.Just realised that in the above pictures, in addition to having a left arm and no shrapnel, Big Boss is smoking a real cigar, not an e-cigar
Indeed, good spot ;-)
The E-cigar is just used to speed up time though, it's description says it got "Medicinal herbs" inside to speed up Big Boss's perception of time.
Edit: It's great to see Kojima's love of Manchester bands though, Joy division, New Order etc. It's good to see something from where I was born, raised and live.
But, these herbs could be easily rolled into a real cigar and I'm sure the real Big Boss would prefer to be smoking a real stogie while waiting for the time to pass and than e-cigar ;-)
True, also Big Boss did say that he didn't like fake cigars to Huey in PW.
That's not the point, the E-cigar was a sign that things weren't as they seem.
Big Boss's opinion on Electronic Cigarettes
"I don't like imitations, the real thing is always better."
Indeed, good shout!
There's also the fact that Punished "Venom" Snake a piece shrapnel lodged right next to his heart, which can't be removed or he'll die.
So he probably shouldn't be smoking any tobacco, let alone a real cigar.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
There's supposed to be-
Quiet
Skulls
Fog Skulls
Armored Skulls
ST-84
Eli
And Mantis controlling ST-84.
Mercutiouk
Neo Member
Pretty much official confrmation that there is a Big Boss with his left arm intact in The Phantom Pain:
http://www.game.co.uk/en/metal-gear...rs-edition-strategy-guide-only-at-game-653197
Which is a cleaner version of this picture from the leaked guide:
(Right click and open image in new window/tab to see full size version)
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20150823013609/metalgear/images/2/20/S0FRdxk.jpg
Interestingly, instead of shrapnel, this version of Big Boss appears to have a "V" shaped scar on the right side of his forehead.
Also, new Shinkawa artwork:
Damn it, Thabto! Now I have to buy this!
MAX PAYMENT
Member
That sounds like....
- The End/Sniper Wolf style long distance fight taking advantage of open world. Expected.
- Grunt unit fight like the Ocelot Unit. Zzzzz.
- Grunt unit fight like the Ocelot Unit. Zzzzzzzzz.
- Grunt unit fight like the Ocelot Unit. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
- Giant mech/vehicle fight.
- ????
- Giant mech/vehicle fight.
Pretty much what I expected. Disappointing on this front.
To be fair most of the Shinkawa art depicting Big Boss (both with horn, hornless, and mechanical arm) show longer hair than what he has in-game.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
That sounds like....
- The End/Sniper Wolf style long distance fight taking advantage of open world. Expected.
- Grunt unit fight like the Ocelot Unit. Zzzzz.
- Grunt unit fight like the Ocelot Unit. Zzzzzzzzz.
- Grunt unit fight like the Ocelot Unit. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
- Giant mech/vehicle fight.
- ????
- Giant mech/vehicle fight.
Pretty much what I expected. Disappointing on this front.
Yeah, the boss list feels pretty weak.
Oh I forgot to mention, Flame Man/Volgin is also a boss fight in 2 missions apparently. On the horse in the hospital(According to the early trailer, maybe more?) and one when you're recovering his body.
That's a pretty huge one I suppose.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The Quiet boss fight sounds tense since her AI is OP as hell, ten times the hearing of regular guards, she knows where you are if you shoot a gun, vision isn't affected by TOD, can possibly go invisible, has an instakill move, I mean goddamn. The third type of skull fights are like fighting multiple of that.
The one in the prologue is scripted, he has unlimited health.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Yeah. The "story" is so far off the deep end, who fuckin cares any more?
I'm showing up for the gameplay and the characters. Whatever else happens is irrelevant to me.
Mercutiouk
Neo Member
That sounds like....
- The End/Sniper Wolf style long distance fight taking advantage of open world. Expected.
- Grunt unit fight like the Ocelot Unit. Zzzzz.
- Grunt unit fight like the Ocelot Unit. Zzzzzzzzz.
- Grunt unit fight like the Ocelot Unit. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
- Giant mech/vehicle fight.
- ????
- Giant mech/vehicle fight.
Pretty much what I expected. Disappointing on this front.
There must be a bit of a fight with Skull Face. As much as the spoilers regarding him are the ones I believe the most, I'm pretty sure that a man who cannot feel pain is just built to be a boss.
I can't wait to fight her. Especially on hard difficulty.
Sorry if it wasn't clear, I'm specifically interested in knowing about character boss battles. As in, classic one on one MGS boss battles where you fight a named character with cool abilities and unique attacks. Don't really care about boss encounters where you fight a giant vehicle or a squad of "special" enemies because I already expect those.
It seems like forever since we've had boss fights like The Fear, The Fury, Volgin, Ocelot, Vamp, etc. Even the fights in MGS4 were mostly either gimmick battles or a boss character + a squad of "special" scrubs just to fill up space. Peace Walker was entirely vehicle battles and you don't even get to fight Galvaz. :/
It seems like forever since we've had boss fights like The Fear, The Fury, Volgin, Ocelot, Vamp, etc. Even the fights in MGS4 were mostly either gimmick battles or a boss character + a squad of "special" scrubs just to fill up space. Peace Walker was entirely vehicle battles and you don't even get to fight Galvaz. :/
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Other than the insta-kill move, it sounds pretty sweet.
I LOVE the boss fights on the MG universe where you are having to go against a master of his/her craft on their own terms.
It adds a lot tension for me to countersnipe a master sniper, or pistol duel a master pistol marksmen, etc.
Exactly. I'm not a diehard fan though.
CreeperBlocks
Banned
I have this suspicion that Ishmael is Big Boss. I'm probably wrong though
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Quiet seems like the only confirmed one.
At no point do the leaks from the official guide mention a cline.
The guide does however give strong clues that the Medic from Ground Zeroes is the version of Big Boss we play as in The Phantom Pain. This version is also known as Ahab.
It also gives clues that Ishmael is the real Big Boss.
Click here for the details:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...postcount=2198
And apologies to everyone else for posting this again, just annoys me a little that people are confusing speculation with what's actually printed in the official guide
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll