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[Lokaum D+]

The Painter family as far as the game lore tells you is one of the few people that can use their Pictomancy and anyone else with similar abilities would be on the Painter's Council that they only namedrop like once or twice.

There are theories that either the Writer's used Alicia to set fire to the home or perhaps with the imagery showing only Verso in a flaming room, Verso actually set the house on fire due to the disapproval towards his passion towards music.

Danjin44 Canvas and Aionios is very similar. I agree that no matter what Lumiere was doomed from the start.

This is plausible. Verso's disapproval of the song is ridiculous. Maybe the writer's power is to control people through writing/reading, so Alicia herself throwing fire is more plausible.

 

[Last Hearth]

The Painter family as far as the game lore tells you is one of the few people that can use their Pictomancy and anyone else with similar abilities would be on the Painter's Council that they only namedrop like once or twice.

There are theories that either the Writer's used Alicia to set fire to the home or perhaps with the imagery showing only Verso in a flaming room, Verso actually set the house on fire due to the disapproval towards his passion towards music.

Danjin44 Canvas and Aionios is very similar. I agree that no matter what Lumiere was doomed from the start.

It's interesting that the Lumiere brothers were considered the first commercial motion picture released in Paris in 1895( in our world), when Verso died in 1905 in this story, so 1895 could be when he started to paint the city of Lumiere in his canvas.

So in a way, this was like a war between the writers who could create worlds with their words for the reader, being threatened by a rise of a new group that can create worlds with moving pictures, so they plot to destroy them.

 

[Lokaum D+]

It's interesting that the Lumiere brothers were considered the first commercial motion picture released in Paris in 1895, when Verso died in 1905 in this story. So 1895 could be when he started to paint the city of Lumiere in his canvas.

So in a way, this was like a war between the writers who could create worlds with their words for the reader, being threatened by a rise of a new group that can create worlds with moving pictures, so they plot to destroy them.

To be honest painting is old than writing, so for me this dosent make sense, also as long as i know regular ppl cant interact or enter the painted world.

 

[Last Hearth]

To be honest painting is old than writing, so for me this dosent make sense, also as long as i know regular ppl cant Interact or enter the painted world.

I'm just saying the game has a meta narrative on the rise of motion pictures replacing the written word as the main mode of artistic creation to the public.
Except in this fictional world it's not motion pictures, but magical painting instead, and the painters are fighting a war against the Writers.
I don't think it's an accident that they chose Lumiere as the name of the city in the painting.

 

[Lokaum D+]

I'm just saying the game has a meta narrative on the rise of motion pictures replacing the written word as the main mode of artistic creation to the public.
Except in this fictional world it's not motion pictures, but magical painting instead, and the painters are fighting a war against the Writers.
I don't think it's an accident that they chose Lumiere as the name of the city in the painting.

Lumiere is just another way to call Paris, if you and Google La ville Lumiere you ll get Paris.

 

[calico]

Anyone else disappointed that the world/game turned out to be just some make-believe fantasy world essential in someone's head or the equivalent of someone loading into a simulation?

You can take it that way, but you don't have to and I don't consider the game to portray it that way.

 

[calico]

Imagine that...a Canvas within a Canvas full of other Canvas's.

I half expected this reveal in the game (Lune, iirc, explicitly brings up the idea of a canvas within a canvas).

It would work pretty well with the theme of 'what does it mean to be real?', especially after many players have based their decision on a -as far as I can tell- baseless assumption that the OG Family World is 'real' while the Canvas World is 'fake'.

 

[calico]

No, it's dying because Verso died and they were on borrowed time.

Where is it implied that OG Verso's death means the Canvas is on borrowed time?

If a Canvas requires that soul of it's creator to function, then this suggest every world has a natural lifespan.

What makes you think that? I think it's more common for people who consider souls to exist to consider them to be the eternal element of a person (see most major religions).

The way the game portrays it I think we are supposed to infer that the part of OG Verso's soul which is maintaining the Canvas became independent from the rest of OG Verso at the time the Canvas was created, which is why he is presented as a young boy rather than as an entity which 'aged' along with OG Verso.

We know that OG Verso dying didn't immediately destroy the Canvas, so I don't know why we would assume it started a countdown on how long the Canvas has left to survive. My interpretation is the Canvas would continue to exist until it is physically destroyed or until the soul remnant maintaining the Canvas (the genesis) stops or is forced to stop maintaining it.

 

[ssringo]

I went with Maelle even though it was obviously the "bad" choice. I fall on the side of seeing the family as gods of their creations but the creations are still "real" and sentient. In the end I didn't want to erase their existence for the sake of the "gods". I do like the moral/ethic dilemma it presents though.

Speaking of, I like how this game's story is ultimately boils down to another "group of friends go out to defeat god and save the world" only it turns out that that's impossible and they need a god of their own to do so and the fate of the world is ultimately decided without their input. That's very reductive of course.

 

[Fbh]

Just finished the game yesterday. Loved the ending and the choice at the end.
I went with the Maelle ending, I did like the bittersweet nature of it. That final scene with the piano is one of the most memorable last moments I've seen in a game.
It has been a while since a game has presented a choice that made me pause it for a few minutes to really think about it.

Ultimately I think a lot of it comes down to how "real" or not you consider the people and beings in the painting to be.
If you see them as fake imaginary beings then yeah, Maelle is basically unable to accept the death of her brother, and she is basically escaping from her pain and grief by staying in this fantasy world (further hurting her grieving father and sister in the process). There's also the fact Verso probably wouldn't have wanted his sister and mother to loose their lives clinging to the last remaining "piece" of him.

Personally though, I don't see the people in the painting as fake. They clearly are fully sentient beings with their own feeling, desires, hopes, etc. The nature of their creation isn't entirely relevant IMO, for all we know the world of the "real" Maelle might be a painting too, or the creation of some higher being. That doesn't negate the reality of their existence.
Your entire journey has been paved by the sacrifice of previous expeditions not only wanting to survive, but also hoping to give a future to their loved ones back home. Essentially killing everyone in this world, including your party that helped you get here, just didn't feel right.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

If the created inhabitants are sentient and the world you created imposes real limitations upon them then I would consider it a real world you have created, yes. How would this be different to God (assume he exists) creating our world?

I don't agree with you that 'real' vs 'not real' should be defined by perspective (in the sense of where someone is looking from), though people may ofc have different perspectives on what defines 'real'.

Why would immortality (not even really immortality in this case) define somebody as 'not real' or the world they inhabit as 'not real'? It may suggest a different set of rules between one world and the other, but I don't think it tells us they aren't real.

The story of Omelas, is that of a prosperous eternally happy city. But its citizens when reached adulthood, are shown that the city's prosperity is maintained by the suffering of a single forsaken child, in a dark room left barely alive. The citizens either accept that that child had to suffer for everyone else's happiness, or they run away.

In this case, instead of a frail and easily sympathetic child, the linchpin is that of a god. A god needs to sacrifice him or herself in order to keep the painting alive.

A god need to suffer? Most people had no problem with that, in fact some gods are made that way. Nevermind how often we kill gods in RPGs, the idea that we should be sympathetic to a god but a high class aristocratic god family is inherently difficult. There is less to self insert with these beings because "they have so much, we have so little, why shouldn't we take from them to make us feel better"?

That was an actual conversation I have with a phone scammer who said he is robbing the wealthy countries to feed his family.

But in the end, the deities in this game weren't trying to hurt anyone. But not being in the same plane of existence it is easy to dismiss these gods like their lives don't matter. But of course you CAN do that, just remember that there is no real difference between exploiting the paintress and exploiting the forsaken child in Omelas.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

Picked Verso's ending first, then rewound and played Maelle's.

Canonically, I prefer the latter. The final shot of the paintress and the sound of the piano is a haunting final moment. I have questions about the independence creations enjoy while at the disposal of a pictomancer, but I'll sleep on it first, try and answer those loose ends myself.

All in all a lovely examination of the emotions that accompany the grief of one's loss. Well done Sandfall Interactive, what a marvel you've managed.

 

[calico]

The story of Omelas, is that of a prosperous eternally happy city. But its citizens when reached adulthood, are shown that the city's prosperity is maintained by the suffering of a single forsaken child, in a dark room left barely alive. The citizens either accept that that child had to suffer for everyone else's happiness, or they run away.

I'm not familiar with it but it seems likely that was a strong influence here. In Exp33 however it is not just comfort and happiness but a matter of survival, and the citizens are having the decision imposed upon them rather than deciding for themselves. These are significant differences to the equation.

Another thing worth considering is whether the population learning of Bad Thing X and accepting it continuing for their own survival is morally the equivalent of them actively doing it in the first place.

Let's say for sake of argument that OG Verso's soul is suffering (which I don't think it is inherently, but let's say it is) to maintain the Canvas: would learning this fact impose a moral obligation upon the denizens of the Canvas to sacrifice themselves and their children to end that suffering? My inclination is that it would not. However, if some society was facing imminent destruction and only torturing a child could prevent it from happening, would doing so be morally justified? I would also say that is not justified, even though the outcome is effectively the same in both scenarios.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I'm not familiar with it but it seems likely that was a strong influence here. In Exp33 however it is not just comfort and happiness but a matter of survival, and the citizens are having the decision imposed upon them rather than deciding for themselves. These are significant differences to the equation.

Another thing worth considering is whether the population learning of Bad Thing X and accepting it continuing for their own survival is morally the equivalent of them actively doing it in the first place.

Let's say for sake of argument that OG Verso's soul is suffering (which I don't think it is inherently, but let's say it is) to maintain the Canvas: would learning this fact impose a moral obligation upon the denizens of the Canvas to sacrifice themselves and their children to end that suffering? My inclination is that it would not. However, if some society was facing imminent destruction and only torturing a child could prevent it from happening, would doing so be morally justified? I would also say that is not justified, even though the outcome is effectively the same in both scenarios.

And i am saying the reason you are feeling justified, is because the ones suffering are effectively "gods", probably the most abused creatures in fantasy. They are there to give mortal what they want, and what the god wants is usually ignored. They are the ultimate 1%, the elite beings that you are able to use and abuse because they are so much higher above us and it feels good to hurt them. Gods have their own problems, but because you are a a mortal you know you can ignore that entirely because it is too big for you.

That the only reason you feel justified that the Canvas should destroy an entire family for its survival, is because you care about gods even less than you do demons. At least you kill demons, gods are just there to serve mortals and dismissed when not needed.

 

[calico]

And i am saying the reason you are feeling justified, is because the ones suffering are effectively "gods", probably the most abused creatures in fantasy.

I don't think that's the case. I don't think the equation is altered for me whether we consider the Dessendres to be gods or normal people, it is simply that I can't place what would be good for a few people over the survival of everyone in the Canvas (obviously this doesn't matter for those who consider Painted people to not be real anyway).

OG Verso's soul is the only one of the OG family I have much real consideration for in this decision, because the others are ultimately suffering the consequences of their own actions so far as the Canvas goes. It's sad that the other OG family members are suffering, just not sad enough to murder everyone in the Canvas to resolve it.

That 'needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few' factor can be overcome where 'the many' (the Canvas people in this case) are the ones performing an evil act against 'the few' for their own benefit, but that is not the case here. The Canvas people didn't choose the circumstances of their existence and aren't carrying out evil acts to make sure it continues.

The 'few' in this case created the situation, and they assumed a moral responsibility when they created all of these people. If the 'few' continuing to suffer is now the price which has to be paid in lieu of murdering all of the people they created then, well, so be it imo.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

The 'few' in this case created the situation, and they assumed a moral responsibility when they created all of these people. If the 'few' continuing to suffer is now the price which has to be paid in lieu of murdering all of the people they created then, well, so be it imo.

You are assuming there is no consequences for the paintress to be in the canvas all day. Quite normal because the painting people do not have power outside the painting. They don't understand what is outside their dimension.

I guess I don't WANT the painting destroyed, but the painting is not going to survive if the family does not. The canvas can only keep existing if the house it is stored is maintained, and the war of the gods between painters and writers don't progress further. Since the family is the leader of the Painter's guild, by dooming the family you are dooming the painters guild, and that means the Writers will win the war and one day destroy ALL the paintings.

The Paint People can pretend the outside world doesn't concern them. But just because they are ignorant of what is outsider their world, doesn't defend them from what's to come. At no point did the game ask what the Paint People want, because we all know they want to live. The master stroke is that they never get to make the call because they have no leverage. They might be real people but they don't have the real power. Painters and only painters can decide.

 

[Thesnipergecko]

Maelle for me. I couldn't forgive Verso for arriving late and not saving Gustave.

I refused to use Verso in my party for the rest of the game.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Maelle for me. I couldn't forgive Verso for arriving late and not saving Gustave.

I refused to use Verso in my party for the rest of the game.

did you finished the game ?

cause he didn't arrived later, he just let Renoir kill Gustave, he was there all the time.

 

[poppabk]

Choosing Verso is to choose Renoir, who is a massive dick. If he had let his family process their grief like they wanted, instead of trying to force them to move on before they were ready, then things could have turned out so much different.

 

[calico]

You are assuming there is no consequences for the paintress to be in the canvas all day.

Who are you referring to as the paintress? I don't think there is a requirement for anyone (alive) from outside the Canvas to be inside the Canvas.

The canvas can only keep existing if the house it is stored is maintained

When is that is said in the game?

Painters and only painters can decide.

The game asks an even more powerful arbitrator to decide: the player, and the player has no obligation to adopt a position of 'might makes right' and side with the stronger party. It is the view of the player/s about what is right that I am most interested in.

Ironically, out of our two choices, it is a Painter seeking to preserve the Canvas and a Painted seeking to end it. In the genocide ending, a Painted overcomes a Painter and is able to impose his will upon the situation, so it's not quite as simple as saying they have no leverage.

 

[reinking]

I finally dared to open this thread after completing the story (both endings) but I have not read all of it so forgive me if I am repeating something. My short take.

Verso was selfish all the way to the end when he jumped into the portal to do what HE wanted to do. I do have some sympathy for the real Verso since we see the piece of his soul that is trapped in the canvas but fuck painted Verso. There was little about the character that was redeeming. It boiled down to him being created and wanting it to end regardless of the impact on Alicia/Maelle. IMO, he was more of a villain than Renoir. At least Renoir relented in the end to allow Alicia to come out when she was ready and Renoir was fighting for his family. Even if we are to believe (the known liar liar pants on fire) painted Verso that she would never leave, Renoir left it to her. I sort of wish I had done the endings in the opposite order so the last ending I watched would have been painted Verso being forced to be a puppet.

These are just my thoughts on the ending choices. I do have some other thoughts that relate to the story but current endings, I am #TeamMaelle #TeamAlicia #TeamFuckOffPaintedVerso.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Choosing Verso is to choose Renoir, who is a massive dick. If he had let his family process their grief like they wanted, instead of trying to force them to move on before they were ready, then things could have turned out so much different.

What ? Renoir is the only logic person and def not the bad guy in the game, is the only one that is trying to keep things together by not been overly emotional, he is literally a man being a man.

"my son is dead, i wont let my wife grief to death and my daughter lost her self in the world cause she is felling guilty " he is literally doing what a family man must do, being the hard rock of the family even if he have to give up his own grieving,

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Maelle's ending was actually horrifying, really well done

 

[poppabk]

What ? Renoir is the only logic person and def not the bad guy in the game, is the only one that is trying to keep things together by not been overly emotional, he is literally a man being a man.

"my son is dead, i wont let my wife grief to death and my daughter lost her self in the world cause she is felling guilty " he is literally doing what a family man must do, being the hard rock of the family even if he have to give up his own grieving,

He is keeping people locked in the painting because he is so hell bent on destroying it. We only have his word that his wife wouldn't have left if he hadn't started his 'war'. Maelle never felt like she belonged in the painting world and was eager to get out, although without understanding what 'out' was. She might have truly being able to visit the painting form time to time if Renoir wasn't so dogmatic about the paintings destruction forcing her to stay.

 

[Lokaum D+]

He is keeping people locked in the painting because he is so hell bent on destroying it. We only have his word that his wife wouldn't have left if he hadn't started his 'war'. Maelle never felt like she belonged in the painting world and was eager to get out, although without understanding what 'out' was. She might have truly being able to visit the painting form time to time if Renoir wasn't so dogmatic about the paintings destruction forcing her to stay.

he is keeping no one locked in the painting, Aline is the one locking him beneath the monolith, he got free once the party cast Aline out of the painting, there is no "war" is just a couple fighting, he explain a lot of time that ( Aline ) his risking her life been too long inside the canvas and in order to help her move on he need to destroy the canvas even if he dont wanna or she ll be getting back time after time, and this actually happen during the final fight when she enters the canvas again to fight Sirene. Even painted Alicia says that he is doing all of this out of love.

Renoir didnt even know that Alicia/Maelle was is the painting until he encounters with her in Lumiere.

Maelle has basically double personality cause she lived two lifes ( in and out the canvas ), her mom painted over her locking her into Maelle life, the problem wasnt Renoir, the problem is that his family didnt no how to move on, he was trying to help the better he could, this i so true that in the end he let Maelle stay in the canvas, Maelle could have left and entered again, nothing was stopping her once Renoir was out.

 

[poppabk]

Maelle could have left and entered again, nothing was stopping her once Renoir was out.

Except he intends to destroy the canvas as soon as she leaves.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Except he intends to destroy the canvas as soon as she leaves.

no, he dont XD

He just got out and convinced Aline to move on since apparently she didnt returned to the canvas, he is way stronger than Maelle, the party didnt "defeated" him, he let things go cause of his daughter and he is respecting Maelle wish since he didnt entered the canvas to save his diying daughter, the canvas is there, in their house, Renoir, Aline and Clea can enter the canvas whenever they want to kick Maelle out of there, but they arent entering.

Also he fought with his way more powerfull wife for 67 years, if he really wanted to dentroy the canvas, believe me, Maelle would never be able stop him even if she wanted.

 

[Sacred]

I think Noco being brought back and what Monoco said when he died really hammered home how the ending was supposed to play out.

However I still chose Maelle because I had grown to attached to these characters to simply have their existence burned when they had no say.

 

[Reaseru]

I don't think the canvas is a physical thing, like a literal canvas. It's like a magical thing, a piece of magic, a bit of someone's soul (in this case Verso), that any painter can claim for themselves. I also believe that it may become a material canvas if its owner dies until someone claims it again. Because if Renoir wanted to destroy the canvas, he didn't need to fight with Aline over it inside the canvas. He would just smash it in their own world (the real one).

 

[Lokaum D+]

I don't think the canvas is a physical thing, like a literal canvas. It's like a magical thing, a piece of magic, a bit of someone's soul (in this case Verso), that any painter can claim for themselves. I also believe that it may become a material canvas if its owner dies until someone claims it again. Because if Renoir wanted to destroy the canvas, he didn't need to fight with Aline over it inside the canvas. He would just smash it in their own world (the real one).

and trap the wife he is trying to save inside of it ? and how you think the canvas isnt physical if Maelle hid the damn thing before entering it ?

 

[Madflavor]

Choosing Verso is to choose Renoir, who is a massive dick. If he had let his family process their grief like they wanted, instead of trying to force them to move on before they were ready, then things could have turned out so much different.

Choosing Verso is to reach the Acceptance stage of Grief, and pave the only path that actually allows Maelle to move on.

The game is not subtle at all in letting the player know they fucked up if they chose the Maelle ending. But seeing some players choose Maelle over Verso, just to say "screw you Verso" or because they can't let go of the people of Lumiere, shows how brilliant the ending is. Throughout the whole game it shows you how destructive and self consuming grief is, and how it's affected so many characters. The ending choice is essentially a test to see if the player has learned the right lessons. There's a reason Maelle's face at the end is dead center in the frame.

It's a reflection of the Player.

Maelle's face shows that she is already destroying herself, will become the new Paintress, and continue the cycle. Her life will either burn out, and then Renoir destroys the Canvas, or Renoir goes to get her, finds a far more mentally broken daughter, forces her out and destroys the Canvas. Either way, all you accomplish is buying more time for Lumiere, while dooming Maelle and torturing Verso in the process.

 

[reinking]

But seeing some players choose Maelle over Verso, just to say "screw you Verso"

I am talking about canvas Verso. The guy that lied, let Maelle suffer alone when she was abandoned, let the person that did look after Maelle die right in front of her (to entrench himself into the party?) and stole one of Esquie's stones (unforgivable), among other things. He was very selfish at every turn. F that guy. I only wish he was stuck at a piano bar instead of an opera house.

Keep in mind, this is a fictional story so I am not going to be too philosophical about it. It was a good story regardless of what ending people choose. Many horror/sci-fi stories end in tragedy and it does not make them bad stories or bad endings to those stories. Both make us think and I am glad they included both endings.

 

[calico]

I don't think the canvas is a physical thing, like a literal canvas. It's like a magical thing, a piece of magic, a bit of someone's soul (in this case Verso), that any painter can claim for themselves. I also believe that it may become a material canvas if its owner dies until someone claims it again. Because if Renoir wanted to destroy the canvas, he didn't need to fight with Aline over it inside the canvas. He would just smash it in their own world (the real one).

The original Painter's death irl doesn't seem to matter. The part of their soul which went into the Canvas upon its creation remains there maintaining it and the Canvas persists until either that soul remnant stops maintaining it or -presumably- until the Canvas is physically destroyed. Other Painters can evidently come in and mess around, but the founding soul is always the entity maintaining its existence.

I think their vandalism of his Canvas is more what OG Verso is tired of rather than just his role maintaining it. He created a joyful world and his family keeps ruining it with their endless misery and fighting.

I'm assuming there are bad consequences for any Painters who are inside if the Canvas gets physically destroyed / erased, otherwise yeah I assume Renoir would have just done that already. Maelle assumes he will do that as soon as she leaves, which I take to mean he cannot do it safely while one of his family is inside.

 

[calico]

The ending choice is essentially a test to see if the player has learned the right lessons.

At best in what the creators consider to be the right lessons. If the creators consider committing genocide a morally acceptable step in processing grief they are also wrong. If they don't consider the Verso ending to involve committing a genocide then they do not understand the story they wrote.

It is not uncommon for there to be a difference between the story an author was trying to tell and the story they actually told, which may well be the case here if they do in fact consider the Verso ending to be the 'good' ending.

On the other hand it may have been a test to see if the player had the self-conviction to decide for themselves what is right, and not be told what is right by sinister framing and a musical sting.

 

[Lokaum D+]

At best in what the creators consider to be the right lessons. If the creators consider committing genocide a morally acceptable step in processing grief they are also wrong. If they don't consider the Verso ending to involve committing a genocide then they do not understand the story they wrote.

It is not uncommon for there to be a difference between the story an author was trying to tell and the story they actually told, which may well be the case here if they do in fact consider the Verso ending to be the 'good' ending.

On the other hand it may have been a test to see if the player had the self-conviction to decide for themselves what is right, and not be told what is right by sinister framing and a musical sting.

 

[rofif]

About verso ending.... this a real dude or a render?
If it's ue5 render, that's impressive
Because he looks like alan wake

 

[Wilhelm_85]

The reveal at the end of Act 2 / beginning of Act 3 really killed my interest in the game's story and the universe. Made everything that happened narratively up until that point feel absolutely pointless for me.

Still a great game and I enjoyed the combat enough to get my main party to level 99 and destroy all of the optional content with some game breaking builds, but I really wish they didn't take such a postmodern and almost nihilistic approach for their narrative. This could have been the beginning of an awesome setting and and instead they just threw it all away for some more sUbVeRtInG eXpEcTaTiOnS.

Is it that hard for modern people to just have a straightforward and sincere story?

 

[Madflavor]

I am talking about canvas Verso. The guy that lied, let Maelle suffer alone when she was abandoned, let the person that did look after Maelle die right in front of her (to entrench himself into the party?) and stole one of Esquie's stones (unforgivable), among other things. He was very selfish at every turn. F that guy. I only wish he was stuck at a piano bar instead of an opera house.

Try to see things from Verso's perspective. He's somewhere between 67-100 years old, has died multiple times (sometimes in horrific fashion), has watched people he's cared about die multiple times, has been tortured over and over, and his entire existance is to be a facsimile of someone's son, because she can't accept he's dead.

Yeah. No fucking shit he's not a selfless heroic boy scout. This is a guy who has spent almost a century witnessing first hand what a family's grief has done to themselves, and a bunch of sentient people they created. Of course he wanted to end it all. If he doesn't help stop the Paintress, everyone will continue to Gommage every year, until there's none left. If he stops the Paintress, Renoir will Gommage everyone at once. If he goes after Renoir, all he does is kick him out of the Canvas that he can one day jump back into. If he manages to beat Renoir everytime, Aline/Maelle will eventually burn themselves out, and then Renoir destroys the Canvas.

In terms of saving the people in the Canvas, it's literally a no win situation. So why the fuck should he care?

 

[Danjin44]

In terms of saving the people in the Canvas, it's literally a no win situation. So why the fuck should he care?

This is key, Canvas world is doomed world, same way Aionios was in Xenoblade 3.

 

[reinking]

Try to see things from Verso's perspective. He's somewhere between 67-100 years old, has died multiple times (sometimes in horrific fashion), has watched people he's cared about die multiple times, has been tortured over and over, and his entire existance is to be a facsimile of someone's son, because she can't accept he's dead.

Yeah. No fucking shit he's not a selfless heroic boy scout. This is a guy who has spent almost a century witnessing first hand what a family's grief has done to themselves, and a bunch of sentient people they created. Of course he wanted to end it all. If he doesn't help stop the Paintress, everyone will continue to Gommage every year, until there's none left. If he stops the Paintress, Renoir will Gommage everyone at once. If he goes after Renoir, all he does is kick him out of the Canvas that he can one day jump back into. If he manages to beat Renoir everytime, Aline/Maelle will eventually burn themselves out, and then Renoir destroys the Canvas.

In terms of saving the people in the Canvas, it's literally a no win situation. So why the fuck should he care?

LOL. You seem upset about this. You dropped this part out of the quote...

Keep in mind, this is a fictional story so I am not going to be too philosophical about it. It was a good story regardless of what ending people choose. Many horror/sci-fi stories end in tragedy and it does not make them bad stories or bad endings to those stories. Both make us think and I am glad they included both endings.

You are acting as if I did not give credit for the other ending. I might have posted it in the other thread but I do understand why the "good" ending is considered the good ending.

At the end of the day (weeks), I played a video game and think one of the characters was an ass. I enjoyed watching him play a puppet in one of the endings... ...because why the fuck should I care?

 

[Lokaum D+]

Try to see things from Verso's perspective. He's somewhere between 67-100 years old, 1- has died multiple times (sometimes in horrific fashion), 2- has watched people he's cared about die multiple times, has been tortured over and over, and his entire existance is to be a facsimile of someone's son, because she can't accept he's dead.

Yeah. No fucking shit he's not a selfless heroic boy scout. This is a guy who has spent almost a century witnessing first hand what a family's grief has done to themselves, and a bunch of sentient people they created. Of course he wanted to end it all. If he doesn't help stop the Paintress, everyone will continue to Gommage every year, until there's none left. If he stops the Paintress, Renoir will Gommage everyone at once. If he goes after Renoir, all he does is kick him out of the Canvas that he can one day jump back into. If he manages to beat Renoir everytime, Aline/Maelle will eventually burn themselves out, and then Renoir destroys the Canvas.

In terms of saving the people in the Canvas, it's literally a no win situation. So why the fuck should he care?

1- How dafuq Verso died multiple times if Aline painted him immortal ??????

2 - Who ? What ?

 

[Lokaum D+]

This is key, Canvas world is doomed world, same way Aionios was in Xenoblade 3.

No, Canvas world isnt doomed worlds, Verso painted the canvas as a kid, until his death the Canvas and ppl inside the canvas lived their lives without a problem, everything stared when he died.

 

[poppabk]

no, he dont XD

He just got out and convinced Aline to move on since apparently she didnt returned to the canvas, he is way stronger than Maelle, the party didnt "defeated" him, he let things go cause of his daughter and he is respecting Maelle wish since he didnt entered the canvas to save his diying daughter, the canvas is there, in their house, Renoir, Aline and Clea can enter the canvas whenever they want to kick Maelle out of there, but they arent entering.

Also he fought with his way more powerfull wife for 67 years, if he really wanted to dentroy the canvas, believe me, Maelle would never be able stop him even if she wanted.

I thought he left to save his wife after she returned to the canvas and he was saying it is too early for her to return to any canvas in her weakened state? He wasn't accepting of Maelle's decision, he just had succeded in getting his wife out and it was clear she would return even if it killed her to help Maelle.
The point is Renoir still plans to destroy the canvas as soon as he can - meaning once none of his family is at risk. As far as I understood it was he who caused the fracture and if you chose the good ending then he is proven wrong and Aline may have left the canvas whenever she felt ready to move on. It's only if you chose the bad ending can you assume that Renoir was right and Aline wouldn't have left of her own accord.

 

[Danjin44]

No, Canvas world isnt doomed worlds, Verso painted the canvas as a kid, until his death the Canvas and ppl inside the canvas lived their lives without a problem, everything stared when he died.

From I can understand from the ending a piece soul real Verso was keeping that place going but his very much tired of painting and wants to rest.

 

[Lokaum D+]

From I can understand from the ending a piece soul real Verso was keeping that place going but his very much tired of painting and wants to rest.

Verso Soul could've kept the Canvas going forever, but the problem was that his own family stole his joy, especially Clea, who created the Nevrons to destroy the people and everything they had painted together ( Verso and Clea ). If his family hadn't turned against each other inside the Canvas, Verso Soul would've stayed as joyful as he once was. Painted Verso wanted to destroy the canvas cause he was a selfish bastard, my theory is that at the end of Maelle ending, that little boy is Verso soul ( or at least a young painted Verso ) that isnt fractured anymore and is happy since all conflict ceased inside the canvas.

 

[Lokaum D+]

I thought he left to save his wife after she returned to the canvas and he was saying it is too early for her to return to any canvas in her weakened state? He wasn't accepting of Maelle's decision, he just had succeded in getting his wife out and it was clear she would return even if it killed her to help Maelle.
The point is Renoir still plans to destroy the canvas as soon as he can - meaning once none of his family is at risk. As far as I understood it was he who caused the fracture and if you chose the good ending then he is proven wrong and Aline may have left the canvas whenever she felt ready to move on. It's only if you chose the bad ending can you assume that Renoir was right and Aline wouldn't have left of her own accord.

No, he and Aline caused the fracture by fighting inside the canvas, He was just tired, you can see in his face during the final scene, when he hugs Maelle and pretend to believe her about she leaving the canvas. Renoir is the only one trying to make the hard choices, everyone else wants easy way outs, he is far from a villain imo.

Witch one is the good ending and bad ending in your opinion ??? the good ending is Verso ending, the bad ending is Maelle ending.

 

[Madflavor]

LOL. You seem upset about this. You dropped this part out of the quote...


You are acting as if I did not give credit for the other ending. I might have posted it in the other thread but I do understand why the "good" ending is considered the good ending.

At the end of the day (weeks), I played a video game and think one of the characters was an ass. I enjoyed watching him play a puppet in one of the endings... ...because why the fuck should I care?

We're in a thread for people to discuss and debate the two endings, and you responded to me first. I'm allowed to respond back. Was "anyway it's just make belive" your way of shielding yourself from me have a further discussion with you?

Not sure why you think I'm upset, unless the cussing bothered you.

1- How dafuq Verso died multiple times if Aline painted him immortal ??????

2 - Who ? What ?

1. He has been "killed" multiple times which incapacitates him until he heals and reforms. From Julie's Journal:

"I KNOW what I saw. He DIED. He fucking DIED. That attack destroyed half his torso, there's no walking away from that. But when I found him, he was unconscious but whole. His uniform was destroyed, yes, but his chest was merely bruised!
He says the blast just missed him and it was chaotic during battle so I probably misunderstood what I saw. BULLSHIT. Absolute BLOODY bullshit."

I mean I don't want to get bogged down in semantics, so I when I say "died" I don't mean he has permanently died multiple times.

2. A .If you're referring to me mentioning he's been tortured many times, yeah he has. The finest example is probably that one time he got eaten by that Sky Serpent and was continuously digested for a long time. My memory is a bit fuzzy but I recall he mentioned it lasted many months, possibly a year.
B. If you're referring to him watching people he's cared about die a lot, there's a few mentions of him befriending other expeditioners, and even getting close with some of them.

 

[reinking]

We're in a thread for people to discuss and debate the two endings, and you responded to me first. I'm allowed to respond back. Was "anyway it's just make belive" your way of shielding yourself from me have a further discussion with you?

Not sure why you think I'm upset, unless the cussing bothered you.

"anyway it's just make believe"

Isn't that part of your defense for Verso?

I did respond you first because you made the comment about some people choosing Maelle over Verso to say "screw you Verso." I thought that opening with a Simpson's gif would be a pretty big indication that I am taking the conversation about the ending lightly. You also left out the part of the quote that was very clear how I was approaching my thoughts on the thread.

Keep in mind, this is a fictional story so I am not going to be too philosophical about it. It was a good story regardless of what ending people choose.

It is a discussion about a video game ending. I have no reason to take any of it personally. If you are trying to have a deep philosophical conversation about it though, I am probably not going to be your guy. I actually liked both endings but went with Maelle because... ...fuck painted Verso.

 

[Lokaum D+]

We're in a thread for people to discuss and debate the two endings, and you responded to me first. I'm allowed to respond back. Was "anyway it's just make belive" your way of shielding yourself from me have a further discussion with you?

Not sure why you think I'm upset, unless the cussing bothered you.




1. He has been "killed" multiple times which incapacitates him until he heals and reforms. From Julie's Journal:

"I KNOW what I saw. He DIED. He fucking DIED. That attack destroyed half his torso, there's no walking away from that. But when I found him, he was unconscious but whole. His uniform was destroyed, yes, but his chest was merely bruised!
He says the blast just missed him and it was chaotic during battle so I probably misunderstood what I saw. BULLSHIT. Absolute BLOODY bullshit."

I mean I don't want to get bogged down in semantics, so I when I say "died" I don't mean he has permanently died multiple times.

2. A .If you're referring to me mentioning he's been tortured many times, yeah he has. The finest example is probably that one time he got eaten by that Sky Serpent and was continuously digested for a long time. My memory is a bit fuzzy but I recall he mentioned it lasted many months, possibly a year.
B. If you're referring to him watching people he's cared about die a lot, there's a few mentions of him befriending other expeditioners, and even getting close with some of them.

you are reaching too much on this "dying" "tortured" "lost loved ones", Verso and Renoir killed ( or got them killed ) most of the expeditioners they got in contact, it was only after he butchered Julie ( the love of his life ) himself that he became "tired" of living and started to help expeditioner, I have no empathy for Verso or Renoir ( painted ) both killed numbers of ppl for they own sake.

 

[Danjin44]

you are reaching too much on this "dying" "tortured" "lost loved ones", Verso and Renoir killed ( or got them killed ) most of the expeditioners they got in contact, it was only after he butchered Julie ( the love of his life ) himself that he became "tired" of living and started to help expeditioner, I have no empathy for Verso or Renoir ( painted ) both killed numbers of ppl for they own sake.

To me Verso is very similar to Nier Replicant….he did kill for his cause and even wipe entire humanity for it but I do understand his cause.

That's how feel about Verso, I like him and understand his cause but at the same time I don consider him to be a "good guy" either.