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[Grizzled Ghost]

During the flashback at the end of Act 2 when real-life Maelle hides the canvas, Clea makes an ominous comment about what a clever hiding space she has found, and the characters are shown to be in like a black void with candles. I was very surprised that plot thread never came up again.

Maelle then enters the canvas right away. She's immediately noticed by her mother and send to be reborn as a baby. But how? Isn't Aline out of the canvas at this moment? isn't that how they were able to move and hide the canvas in the first place? What's the point of hiding the canvas is Aline can stay remotely connected? Can someone explain this to me?

(I'm talking about during the flashback, not when Maelle is later talking about hiding the canvas again to Renoir and he shoots her down)

 

[Lokaum D+]

During the flashback at the end of Act 2 when real-life Maelle hides the canvas, Clea makes an ominous comment about what a clever hiding space she has found, and the characters are shown to be in like a black void with candles. I was very surprised that plot thread never came up again.

Maelle then enters the canvas right away. She's immediately noticed by her mother and send to be reborn as a baby. But how? Isn't Aline out of the canvas at this moment? isn't that how they were able to move and hide the canvas in the first place? What's the point of hiding the canvas is Aline can stay remotely connected? Can someone explain this to me?

(I'm talking about during the flashback, not when Maelle is later talking about hiding the canvas again to Renoir and he shoots her down)

They prob hid the Canvas in the basement.

They need the Canvas to enter the Canvas, but once they are inside you can move the Canvas, when Alicia entered the Canvas Aline chroma painted over Alicia creating Maelle since her was weak and didnt know to control herself, the flash back happens at year 49, the story of the game happens at the year 33, so when Alicia entered the Canvas Aline was inside. The point of hiding the Canvas is for Aline to stay out once they cast her out, she need the Canvas to re-enter.

 

[Grizzled Ghost]

They prob hid the Canvas in the basement.

They need the Canvas to enter the Canvas, but once they are inside you can move the Canvas, when Alicia entered the Canvas Aline chroma painted over Alicia creating Maelle since her was weak and didnt know to control herself, the flash back happens at year 49, the story of the game happens at the year 33, so when Alicia entered the Canvas Aline was inside. The point of hiding the Canvas is for Aline to stay out once they cast her out, she need the Canvas to re-enter.

What basement

We see the lowest levels of the manor and it doesn't look like that. Also, that doesn't really strike me as very clever.

They should've put it in the secret room by the fireplace you can unlock earlier to find the record. That would've been a nice callback and made players who uncovered it feel "clever".


As a tangent. Fuck that one Mario 64 painting in the Manor with the flask upgrade behind it. I guess it's the only one hung at a height you can easily jump into, but it needed to have more of an indicator than that. I can't imagine even 5% of players who get to that point will find that organically.

 

[Boss Mog]

At first glance Maelle's ending might seem like the "good" ending and Verso's the "bad" ending but it's obvious that it's the other way around. Glad I originally picked Verso, his is the true good ending.

It almost feels like a choice between woke and based. Continue living in your delusional safe space or break free and face the real world with all its challenges and difficulties.

 

[PonyStation4]

At first glance Maelle's ending might seem like the "good" ending and Verso's the "bad" ending but it's obvious that it's the other way around. Glad I originally picked Verso, his is the true good ending.

It almost feels like a choice between woke and based. Continue living in your delusional safe space or break free and face the real world with all its challenges and difficulties.

It should also be considered that in the Maelle ending she repaints everyone from her memories. Meaning that they aren't the same people and most of them likely have things made up, since she didn't know everything about them. Same as when she revived Lune and Sciel the first time, they're not the same people. Bias should also be considered, because Maelle is painting how she thinks they should be, just as Verso told her to. For example, she held Gustave to a high standard. So his new painted version could be more honest, smarter and kinder than he actually was. In reality, you can never know a persons full personality, because everyone hides their true selves.

Maelle's ending just cemented that the world was make believe, held up by her own standards of how people are.

 

[calico]

It's not a doomed world in the sense that it is naturally going to end sometime soon. It is directly under threat of being nuked by Renoir, but even he has no real animus towards it. Ironically it is the threat he poses which makes Maelle feel unable to ever leave the Canvas - the exact opposite of what he wants.

It does not seem like it should be impossible for them to arrive at an agreement whereby her Canvas time is strictly limited and he agrees not to destroy it while she is not inside. I think he would probably stick to that, because reneging would be the end of any relationship with his daughter, and because it gives a chance that she will be weaned off and she might find meaning in her non-Canvas life.

The sticking points would likely be that she just can't trust him enough / is already too addicted to ever leave willingly / the time flow issues, but if her choice is between accepting that arrangement or Renoir and Clea will keep coming in there and trying to beat her ass / fuck shit up, she might have to accept it. Maelle does not seem to be driven mad by grief like Aline has been (impossible to reason with), she just thinks her non-Canvas life sucks.

 

[calico]

It should also be considered that in the Maelle ending she repaints everyone from her memories. Meaning that they aren't the same people and most of them likely have things made up, since she didn't know everything about them. Same as when she revived Lune and Sciel the first time, they're not the same people. Bias should also be considered, because Maelle is painting how she thinks they should be, just as Verso told her to. For example, she held Gustave to a high standard. So his new painted version could be more honest, smarter and kinder than he actually was.

It could work that way, but I think 'remember the truth of their essence' or whatever Verso says is just the key for her being able to successfully bring Sciel & Lune back. If the game wanted us to infer they were new, not-quite-right copies -rather than a straightforward resurrection- I think it could (and imo, would) have hinted at that at some point (in some behavioural quirk or detail) but afaik it never does.

We know the Painted family members work as you describe (the first time they were created), but they are Painted versions of people from outside the Canvas, so they have to work that way I guess.

I think when a Painted person gommages, their chroma goes to the big paint pot in the sky, from where it can be retrieved and the person resurrected. Painted people killed by Nevrons have to have their chroma retrieved manually - it seems they can then be resurrected but not fully or permanently (this part is not very clear).

Gustav's status in the Maelle ending is unclear. Gustav does not gommage and his body doesn't petal off into the sky when he dies, which presumably is why Maelle does not resurrect him at the same time as Sciel and Lune: she is unable to. He does not die to gommage or Nevron and we don't know what happens to his body or his chroma. If she is just creating a memory version of Sciel and Lune, I see no reason she wouldn't create Gustav at this time, and probably before either of them. By the Maelle end cutscene she may have gained control of all chroma in the Canvas -and be able to resurrect Gustav properly- or he may well be a new version from memory, like Verso.

 

[Madflavor]

"anyway it's just make believe"

Isn't that part of your defense for Verso?

No, it's an oversimplification of my defense for him and under a very different context. Just saying, people are allowed to agree/disagree no matter how casual you thoughts are on the ending.

you are reaching too much on this "dying" "tortured" "lost loved ones", Verso and Renoir killed ( or got them killed ) most of the expeditioners they got in contact, it was only after he butchered Julie ( the love of his life ) himself that he became "tired" of living and started to help expeditioner, I have no empathy for Verso or Renoir ( painted ) both killed numbers of ppl for they own sake.

I'm absolutely not reaching, and if anything it sounds a lot more like you're being dismissive. Verso lived a miserable exisistance. He mentioned befriending other expeditioners and frequently visiting Lumiere. He recounts many tales throughout the many conversations in the game of the shit he's been through. You don't have to like him, but I'm saying I understand his perspective on things.

I also accept that the Canvas is doomed one way or another, which is part of why I gravitate more towards his ending. You're pulling the cord on the Canvas that's essentially on life support. The whole theme of Clair Obscur is Grief, and Verso's ending is literally Acceptance, the final stage of Grief.

 

[calico]

It is as much about what it means to be real as it is about grief. For Aline it is entirely about grief, and her grief is like a rock dropped in a pond which sets ripples spreading outwards, but it becomes less and less directly about grief the further we get from her. By the time we get to say, Clea, we would have to be speaking very indirectly to say she is dealing with grief.

I don't think Verso or Maelle are strictly speaking motivated by grief or their acceptance of grief at the end of the game. Verso is incapable of considering himself to be a real person, and thus incapable of any real connections, and this has made him suicidally depressed to the point he is willing to take everyone with him if he has to. Maelle's desire to escape into the Canvas does not seem directly motivated by a wish to avoid dealing with grief per se, but by her belief that a life in the Canvas will simply be better than her depressing no-face, no-voice life outside.

 

[Ribi]

I destroyed it. So then why did I fight papa? What was the point of we wanted the same thing

 

[reinking]

No, it's an oversimplification of my defense for him and under a very different context. Just saying, people are allowed to agree/disagree no matter how casual you thoughts are on the ending.

When did I ever say people are not allowed to agree/disagree? In fact, I said, and for some reason you keep ignoring it…

"It was a good story regardless of what ending people choose." You seem to be the one that are not allowing people to disagree with the Verso ending. Also, to be fair, I tossed in an emoji to show that it was a light hearted jab about Verso.

 

[calico]

I destroyed it. So then why did I fight papa? What was the point of we wanted the same thing

Verso because he is making impulsive and irrational decisions which are guided by emotion rather than any firmly held beliefs.

The player because the game hasn't decided it's time to give you agency yet.

 

[Lokaum D+]

I destroyed it. So then why did I fight papa? What was the point of we wanted the same thing

 

[Fbh]

During the flashback at the end of Act 2 when real-life Maelle hides the canvas, Clea makes an ominous comment about what a clever hiding space she has found, and the characters are shown to be in like a black void with candles. I was very surprised that plot thread never came up again.

Maelle then enters the canvas right away. She's immediately noticed by her mother and send to be reborn as a baby. But how? Isn't Aline out of the canvas at this moment? isn't that how they were able to move and hide the canvas in the first place? What's the point of hiding the canvas is Aline can stay remotely connected? Can someone explain this to me?

(I'm talking about during the flashback, not when Maelle is later talking about hiding the canvas again to Renoir and he shoots her down)

From what we are shown and what is implied by the story, you only need the canvas physically to enter it, once you are inside you'll remain inside even if the canvas gets moved.
Otherwise Renoir could have just moved the canvas to get his wife out of it and spared himself decades worth of struggle.

Maelle and her sister apparently do a pretty shit job of hiding it though. Given how much slower time moves outside the canvas, the fact Aline re-enters the canvas for the final boss battle would imply she found it minutes (hours?) after being expelled from it (unless Clea helped her find it, but I don't think that'd make sense).

It should also be considered that in the Maelle ending she repaints everyone from her memories. Meaning that they aren't the same people and most of them likely have things made up, since she didn't know everything about them. Same as when she revived Lune and Sciel the first time, they're not the same people. Bias should also be considered, because Maelle is painting how she thinks they should be, just as Verso told her to. For example, she held Gustave to a high standard. So his new painted version could be more honest, smarter and kinder than he actually was. In reality, you can never know a persons full personality, because everyone hides their true selves.

Maelle's ending just cemented that the world was make believe, held up by her own standards of how people are.

IMO it's a bit unclear.
Painted Verso and his family are copies created from memories because they are based on people in the "real" world, over which Aline has no power.
The mechanics of how things work with people from the painted world aren't really explained (at least in the main story) . Skilled enough painters might just be able to ctrl + Z people back into existence within the canvas (with enough Chroma).

At the beginning of act 3, when Maelle and Verso escape from the real Renoir, she sees these 2 swirls of petals flying around, then she says "I can see them" and seemingly absorbs them into herself. I interpreted that as her seemingly being able to interact with the "essence" or "soul" of Lune and Sciel. It's also why she doesn't bring back Gustave alongside them.
That said, when she is trying to bring them back, Verso also advises her to "remember them" and mentions that painting is more about essence than verisimilitude.
So it's a bit unclear, memories do seem to play a role, but it's also implied there is a sort of "soul" (or essence, or data or whatever you want to call it) that's unique to each person in the painted world.

 

[Madflavor]

When did I ever say people are not allowed to agree/disagree? In fact, I said, and for some reason you keep ignoring it…

"It was a good story regardless of what ending people choose."

You don't need to say it, it's implied with how you've been dismissive with my responses. I'm not ignoring anything, it's just not the smoking gun response that you think it is. I too think both endings are great. I'll take a page out of your playbook and bring up the fact that in the first post of mine that you responded to with your Simpsons gif, I literally said in one of my posts that Maelle's ending is brilliant.

Just because I think it's brilliant and a good ending, doesn't mean I think it's the right ending.

You seem to be the one that are not allowing people to disagree with the Verso ending. Also, to be fair, I tossed in an emoji to show that it was a light hearted jab about Verso.

Now you're trying to paint (heh) me like I'm the only one arguing a case for an ending choice and theories about the game, in a thread to discuss the game's endings. Cool bro. People can like whatever ending they want, and if they stand by it they're free to make their case. But this is a thread to discuss the endings of the game.

 

[mayham2199]

At first glance Maelle's ending might seem like the "good" ending and Verso's the "bad" ending but it's obvious that it's the other way around. Glad I originally picked Verso, his is the true good ending.

It almost feels like a choice between woke and based. Continue living in your delusional safe space or break free and face the real world with all its challenges and difficulties.

I never thought Maelle was the good ending. I did want to save the painting at first but once I saw what was happening to Maelle's mother I was out and wanted to destroy the painting. When I had to choose between Verso or Maelle it was an easy pick.

I really don't see how anyone could pick Verso and every single reason I've seen hasn't been good.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

Verso wants to save his family. He sees all the the damage that is done in his "name", watches his mother turn into a husk, his father into a tyrant, and his two sisters take similar, destructive, paths. At least Cleia decides to take her pain out on the writers and is out of the painting (for the most part) but she has become cold and single minded in terms of her "mission".

I do think Cleia's painted version gives Alicia/Maelle the best advice when you complete the endless tower..."Deal with your shit how you want to deal with it but remember mom and dad are NOT a model for how to deal with grief...do what you want but keep your eyes open to what is going on around you. You've matured...just don't backslide...or do, your life is your own."

Verso is the hero, Maelle is a scared teenager who would rather play in painting than deal with the real world pain (both physical and emotional) that she knows is waiting for her.

I hated when Verso (painted) hugged Esquie and Monoco goodbye and told him he would miss them...that was gut wrenching.
On the flip side Maelle painting a "younger brother Verso" that you see in the Theater in her ending was just as painful. She didn't fix anything, didn't reverse the fracture, hell she only brought back the people that she KNEW in terms of repainting evertyone (this is just my opinion based on seeing the small number of folks who were in Lumier and in front of the opera house). She repainted just enough to make her happy, or thought made her happy. You can see the strain/worry in her eyes and face when grown up Verso sits down to start playing.

I adore this game and the way both endings give you the "hope and despair of your decisions" at the same time.

 

[reinking]

You don't need to say it, it's implied with how you've been dismissive with my responses. I'm not ignoring anything, it's just not the smoking gun response that you think it is. I too think both endings are great. I'll take a page out of your playbook and bring up the fact that in the first post of mine that you responded to with your Simpsons gif, I literally said in one of my posts that Maelle's ending is brilliant.

Just because I think it's brilliant and a good ending, doesn't mean I think it's the right ending.



Now you're trying to paint (heh) me like I'm the only one arguing a case for an ending choice and theories about the game, in a thread to discuss the game's endings. Cool bro. People can like whatever ending they want, and if they stand by it they're free to make their case. But this is a thread to discuss the endings of the game.

I have not meant to attack you or your opinion and definitely did not mean to be dismissive. I have zero problems with the good ending and it being the good ending and I have zero problems with what ending people choose. Yes, the story was great and emotional but it is still a story and meant to entertain even if it leaves us with something to think about. If I was coming across as dismissive, it was intended for painted Verso… ..why? Because fuck that guy . <-truly meant to silly.

 

[calico]

I really don't see how anyone could pick Verso and every single reason I've seen hasn't been good.

True.

 

[calico]

I hated when Verso (painted) hugged Esquie and Monoco goodbye and told him he would miss them...that was gut wrenching.

Because of his duplicity?

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

Because of his duplicity?

Um, no, at least not in my opinion anyway.

Because the only way he could save the real Verso's ACTUAL family and stop the cycle of hurt/pain/abuse/whatever was to destroy the canvas. He knew that would never happen until he forced his sister out of the canvas and let his dad destroy the painting. To do that he had to kill creations that the actual Verso had created and that he, the painted version, formed close relationships with.

He watched his "real dad" DIE inside when he was finally defeated and Maelle basically said "trust me dad...I can handle my drug problem here, TRUST ME BRO...NO PROBLEM! Ill just be here for a little bit longer...." painted Verso knew what was really going to happen and so he made a decision.

 

[calico]

Um, no, at least not in my opinion anyway.

Because the only way he could save the real Verso's ACTUAL family and stop the cycle of hurt/pain/abuse/whatever was to destroy the canvas. He knew that would never happen until he forced his sister out of the canvas and let his dad destroy the painting. To do that he had to kill creations that the actual Verso had created and that he, the painted version, formed close relationships with.

He watched his "real dad" DIE inside when he was finally defeated and Maelle basically said "trust me dad...I can handle my drug problem here, TRUST ME BRO...NO PROBLEM! Ill just be here for a little bit longer...." painted Verso knew what was really going to happen and so he made a decision.

I didn't like it. Either he considers Painted bros to be fake (which to my mind would be the only way he can possibly justify what he's doing) in which case it's tantamount to saying an emotional goodbye to chatgpt, or he considers them to be real and is currently in the process of murdering them and everyone else in the Canvas.

I guess Esquie is incapable of ever being mad at anyone, but I would have liked it more if Monoco told Verso to get fucked, or asked him if he even spared a thought for Noco, or the other Gestrals, or the Grandis, or Lune, or Sciel. The most pushback he gets from any of the people he is killing is an accusatory stare from Lune - it would have been nice if somebody had asked him to justify his sacrificing everyone.

 

[Danjin44]

I guess Esquie is incapable of ever being mad at anyone, but I would have liked it more if Monoco told Verso to get fucked, or asked him if he even spared a thought for Noco, or the other Gestrals, or the Grandis, or Lune, or Sciel. The most pushback he gets from any of the people he is killing is an accusatory stare from Lune - it would have been nice if somebody had asked him to justify his sacrificing everyone.

I think Monoco already knew the truth and knew where journey going to end and same with Esquie.

painted Verso might not be real Verso but still had real Verso's memory and love for his family.

He wants to save his mother and sister and don't see them turn in to empty tusk over their grief.

I compare him to Nier Replicant, just like Verso he will do what it takes to save his sister.

And also like Verso, his fake Replicant version of real Nier.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

I didn't like it. Either he considers Painted bros to be fake (which to my mind would be the only way he can possibly justify what he's doing) in which case it's tantamount to saying an emotional goodbye to chatgpt, or he considers them to be real and is currently in the process of murdering them and everyone else in the Canvas.

I guess Esquie is incapable of ever being mad at anyone, but I would have liked it more if Monoco told Verso to get fucked, or asked him if he even spared a thought for Noco, or the other Gestrals, or the Grandis, or Lune, or Sciel. The most pushback he gets from any of the people he is killing is an accusatory stare from Lune - it would have been nice if somebody had asked him to justify his sacrificing everyone.

Esquie knew the truth and so did Monoco, there are several times in the game where Verso has conversations with them along the lines of "hey...they don't know the truth" and both of those characters said "nah bru, we got you...we didn't say shit" (paraphrasing).

He is also a painted bro so he is killing himself at the same time, I guess I read it like this: he (painted version) cannot live his own life, just a shadow of a life of another person who has long since been dead. Everyone here is a figment of Verso, Eline, Cliea, Maelle, or Renoir's imagination. If none of them are real, and the painting will be destroyed at some point in the future when one of two things happen: 1) He kicks out the real verso's sister so she can live an actual life and the painting is destroyed, 2) his sister dies of exposure and then the painting gets destroyed at that point.

Damned is you do damned if you don't. I just think he wanted the overall sacrifice of the painting to matter.

 

[calico]

Esquie knew the truth and so did Monoco, there are several times in the game where Verso has conversations with them along the lines of "hey...they don't know the truth" and both of those characters said "nah bru, we got you...we didn't say shit" (paraphrasing).

Which 'truth' do you believe this was referring to?

He is also a painted bro so he is killing himself at the same time

Yeah he is suicidal, that doesn't mean everyone else he's sacrificing is.

Everyone here is a figment of Verso, Eline, Cliea, Maelle, or Renoir's imagination.

I don't consider that to be the case, but fair enough if you do. Not sure why you'd find two imaginary (imaginary in-narrative) characters saying goodbye to each other to be gut wrenching though.

the painting will be destroyed at some point in the future

We will all die at some point in the future. Even if we assume the Canvas dies with Maelle -which is far from a given as even Renoir isn't seeking to destroy it just for the sake of it- this could be whole lifetimes for people in the Canvas.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

My take on this is somewhat "Wizard of Oz".

Esquie was/is a teddy bear of Alicia's as she was growing up. Monoco was the family's dog.

Both of those characters are in the world because Verso painted them into the world when he was alive. The Ghestrals were referred to as "dolls" at one point in the game and later you see them as dolls in the Manor when you unlock certain rooms...they were toys.

I think Verso painted those things to life for his sister and they spent time in that world together, much like all the other worlds that were painted, before Verso was killed/murdered by the writers in the fire.

I also think it is great folks can have so many different interpretations/impressions of the story too! Overall I thought it was extremely well executed and it is the first game in a long time for me that has me still thinking about it after I finished it.

 

[Grizzled Ghost]

My take on this is somewhat "Wizard of Oz".

Esquie was/is a teddy bear of Alicia's as she was growing up. Monoco was the family's dog.

Both of those characters are in the world because Verso painted them into the world when he was alive. The Ghestrals were referred to as "dolls" at one point in the game and later you see them as dolls in the Manor when you unlock certain rooms...they were toys.

I think Verso painted those things to life for his sister and they spent time in that world together, much like all the other worlds that were painted, before Verso was killed/murdered by the writers in the fire.

I also think it is great folks can have so many different interpretations/impressions of the story too! Overall I thought it was extremely well executed and it is the first game in a long time for me that has me still thinking about it after I finished it.

They were Verso's toys, not Alicia's. You can see them in his room, and the canvas was likely completed before Alicia was born.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

They were Verso's toys, not Alicia's. You can see them in his room, and the canvas was likely completed before Alicia was born.

It was my impression that the canvas was a work in progress and was never completed since art wasn't Verso's creative passion.

Versos or Alicia's toys, I also feel this doesn't matter they as they were still toys. As the youngest child Alicia could have played with the ghestrals as a kid growing up, I know I played with my older siblings toys and made up my own fantasies when I played with them. Verso as the older brother could have brought those to life in the canvas for Alicia.

Overall I don't think it matters, I'm trying to rationalize portions of the story by adding my impressions/takes but those are not necessary to appreciate the game. I enjoyed the world/over all experience and just trying to extend my time with the game by talking about it a bit.

Anyway, I hope folks got as much out of the game as I did!

Have fun!!

 

[Synless]

False Verso and Renoir are the only two sane people in the game. I went with them without hesitation.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

All the people inside the canvas were erased at the end of act 2. If you choose Maelle's ending, the people are all brought back but all act according to Maelle's will.

Does that imply that the people inside the canvas always existed only in the minds of Aline/Renoir/Maelle? Or are the resurrected people in Maelle's ending somehow lesser/less real than they were before?

 

[Fbh]

All the people inside the canvas were erased at the end of act 2. If you choose Maelle's ending, the people are all brought back but all act according to Maelle's will.

Does that imply that the people inside the canvas always existed only in the minds of Aline/Renoir/Maelle? Or are the resurrected people in Maelle's ending somehow lesser/less real than they were before?

IMO it's not quite clear.
Like at the beginning of act 3 when Maelle and Verso escape from the real Renoir, just before they fly away she sees these 2 "swarms" of petals flying around and says something like "I can see them". She then absorbs them into herself.
That seems to imply there is some sort of essence, "data" or soul to the people in the canvas and she isn't just bringing them back from thin air, it's also why she only brings back Lune and Sciel and not Gustave right away.
We also don't really see any change in the way Lune and Sciel behave during act 3, and in the act 3 camp conversations Verso can have with them they reference previous encounters and conversations they had in private without Maelle around, if they were simple recreations based on Maelle's memories they shouldn't have knowledge that Maelle herself doesn't have.

I know it's a bit of a silly analogy, but to me it sort of read like going into the Recycle Bin in your computer and restoring some files. Except when other painters are around Maelle is lacking the energy and admin privileges to do so with everyone.

To me the 2 endings basically read as one being positive for the Dessendre family and one being positive for the people in the Canvas (except Verso). I think how real or not you consider the people in the Canvas to be will have a big effect on how you interpret the Maelle ending.

I also think it is great folks can have so many different interpretations/impressions of the story too! Overall I thought it was extremely well executed and it is the first game in a long time for me that has me still thinking about it after I finished it.

Yup. You know the ending is great when we can have a 5 pages thread of people discussing about it

 

[calico]

If you choose Maelle's ending, the people are all brought back but all act according to Maelle's will.

I don't think so. Painted Verso at least seems to have no trouble acting in direct opposition to his Painter's wishes throughout the whole game. He is acting in what he considers to be her best interests, but he still has to exercise free will to impose his will over his creator's will.

Does that imply that the people inside the canvas always existed only in the minds of Aline/Renoir/Maelle? Or are the resurrected people in Maelle's ending somehow lesser/less real than they were before?

I don't think you are supposed to consider the Canvas and the people within to be imaginary / simulations, but the player can choose to interpret it that way if they wish. I would consider the game to have zero replay value (in terms of narrative) if I viewed it that way, because there would be no reason to care about most of the 'people' who are on screen most of the time.

I think Lune and Sciel at least are direct resurrections and the same as before. For the others (including Gustav) it's open to interpretation whether Maelle had to make new Maelle-ized versions from memory or if gaining control of 'all the chroma in the Canvas' allows her to resurrect them properly.

I can't think of any time where we see someone who has been 'brought back' behaving in a way that's intended to make it clear to the player that their original character has been subverted by Maelle. I know that doesn't prove that they haven't been, but it's something I would expect the game to make a point of showing if they wanted to make it clear that's what's happening, rather than leaving it open to interpretation.

 

[rofif]

The reveal at the end of Act 2 / beginning of Act 3 really killed my interest in the game's story and the universe. Made everything that happened narratively up until that point feel absolutely pointless for me.

Still a great game and I enjoyed the combat enough to get my main party to level 99 and destroy all of the optional content with some game breaking builds, but I really wish they didn't take such a postmodern and almost nihilistic approach for their narrative. This could have been the beginning of an awesome setting and and instead they just threw it all away for some more sUbVeRtInG eXpEcTaTiOnS.

Is it that hard for modern people to just have a straightforward and sincere story?

I see what you mean.
tis all a painting painted by magical people can do that. But that's kinda the point of it. Verso feels the same way.
Although I was hoping this is the real world and they will explain why stuff is floating. But since it's not, anything goes

 

[Memati187]

Verso was a hypocrite. He cried a river when maelle fulfilled Alicia's wish to be depainted, but had no problem forcing his own desire against everyones wish to exist, even knowing they are painted.

He also purposely didn't save gustave and kept the letter from alicia to himself to manipulate the outcome. If there was a villain, then he was the closest one.

Both Renoirs had reasonable motives in doing what they did, but verso was the the most selfish out of them all. That's why the maelle ending where he suffers for eternity, while everyone enjoys living on is my favourite ending.

 

[Jinxed]

Verso was a hypocrite. He cried a river when maelle fulfilled Alicia's wish to be depainted, but had no problem forcing his own desire against everyones wish to exist, even knowing they are painted.

He also purposely didn't save gustave and kept the letter from alicia to himself to manipulate the outcome. If there was a villain, then he was the closest one.

Both Renoirs had reasonable motives in doing what they did, but verso was the the most selfish out of them all. That's why the maelle ending where he suffers for eternity, while everyone enjoys living on is my favourite ending.

Verso also had a reasonable motive. He was a creation and trapped to live this life. He was tired of it, he was at the end of the rope and also wanted the Descendre family to move on and face the grief.

There is no villain or good guy in this game. There is no black or white, that's what the director and writer wanted. Everyone was right in their own way.

 

[manlisten]

Verso was a hypocrite. He cried a river when maelle fulfilled Alicia's wish to be depainted, but had no problem forcing his own desire against everyones wish to exist, even knowing they are painted.

He also purposely didn't save gustave and kept the letter from alicia to himself to manipulate the outcome. If there was a villain, then he was the closest one.

Both Renoirs had reasonable motives in doing what they did, but verso was the the most selfish out of them all. That's why the maelle ending where he suffers for eternity, while everyone enjoys living on is my favourite ending.

I didn't get the impression that Verso continues living for eternity in Maelle's ending. The scene cuts to black just before the epilogue and Maelle asks, "If you could grow old, would you find a reason to smile?" The impression I got is that Maelle granted him mortality, which is why he appears older during the epilogue. Essentially, Verso agreed to a compromise where Maelle/Alicia get to live out the years that the fire took away from them, while Verso eventually gets to die at some point.

I could be wrong on this but that's how I read it.

 

[Mawen]

I did Maelle's end but only because I thought she would die, but Verso's end is the good (healthy) one.

 

[AJUMP23]

I didn't like Verso as a person but he was right that it was time to stop painting.

 

[calico]

Painted Verso had an understandable motive in the sense that people who say they would sacrifice the world to save their child have an understandable motive. Like, I get it, but a neutral arbitrator isn't going to let them actually do it.

The scene cuts to black just before the epilogue and Maelle asks, "If you could grow old, would you find a reason to smile?" The impression I got is that Maelle granted him mortality, which is why he appears older during the epilogue.

You could be right. I assumed he just stopped dying his hair because he has completely given up and is resigned to his fate.

I think that quote could be reflecting on boy Verso -who is the only one still with her after Painted Verso turns to petals- and that's why she has another painted kid Verso with her at the end (at least that's who I assume the kid is).

 

[Revolutionary]

Even though I know that Verso was the "right" decision in terms of logic, I still picked Maelle. She's the main character of this particular story, and she deserved to go out the way that she wanted.

 

[undeadhero]

Verso. Although, gotta say, I don't think the twist's reveal stuck the landing. One of the weaker parts of an otherwise great game.

 

[balls of snow]

To an outside observer (the player being asked to make the decision), why is the fate of a part of OG Verso's soul more important than everyone living in the Canvas?

Its funny because the game treats Lumiere as a throwaway toy starting at the epilogue of act 2. So while I have an attachment to the Expedition et.al cast, the game wants me to care way more about The Family.

 

[balls of snow]

Verso was a hypocrite. He cried a river when maelle fulfilled Alicia's wish to be depainted, but had no problem forcing his own desire against everyones wish to exist, even knowing they are painted.

He also purposely didn't save gustave and kept the letter from alicia to himself to manipulate the outcome. If there was a villain, then he was the closest one.

Both Renoirs had reasonable motives in doing what they did, but verso was the the most selfish out of them all. That's why the maelle ending where he suffers for eternity, while everyone enjoys living on is my favourite ending.

Agree with Verso being the real villain at the end of this. He was only heroic because it was coded in him by the real Verso AND it fulfilled his wish to die.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Yeah, it's not.

Third ending should be: canvas entities being left alone by Alicia that finally comes to terms with what happened in reality (after spending a year or two inside painting with friends). Maelle would just visit from time to time and that's it. This is what would be a good ending and this is what conversation of Renoir and Alicia suggested before Verso jumped into the portal.

But I think game was designed with "loss" as a main theme so we can't have that. Maybe DLC/expansion?

Full agreement. The Maelle ending should have been just that, but sadly that wasn't what we got. Verso should have been allowed his wish for his being in the painting to end, and Maelle should have said goodbye to him, and left the others to live their lives. The painting should have been a vacation spot of sorts, rather than a substitute for reality.

Ideally, if you maxed out your relationship side stories with each character, both endings could have had happier versions. A happy Maelle ending I mentioned above. A happy Verso ending could have been Maelle granting him the end to his immortality, and being able to live out the rest of his life in the painting with Sciel or Lune, with Maelle also agreeing to return to the real world.

Instead we're left with two endings about one person imposing their will on another. Maelle having the character growth required to leave according to her own free will would have been the good ending to me.

 

[DarkBatman]

Full agreement. The Maelle ending should have been just that, but sadly that wasn't what we got. Verso should have been allowed his wish for his being in the painting to end, and Maelle should have said goodbye to him, and left the others to live their lives. The painting should have been a vacation spot of sorts, rather than a substitute for reality.

Ideally, if you maxed out your relationship side stories with each character, both endings could have had happier versions. A happy Maelle ending I mentioned above. A happy Verso ending could have been Maelle granting him the end to his immortality, and being able to live out the rest of his life in the painting with Sciel or Lune, with Maelle also agreeing to return to the real world.

Instead we're left with two endings about one person imposing their will on another. Maelle having the character growth required to leave according to her own free will would have been the good ending to me.

While I generally agree with you, I have to say that I find both endings incredibly strong and think that a "happy ending" wouldn't have suited this story.

The focus is on grief and how to deal with it. Maelle has not only lost her brother, but also feels she is to blame. Furthermore, her family has been torn apart, her face disfigured, and her voice lost. An absolute horror scenario from which there is absolutely no escape.

However, in real life, we sometimes have to face this horror and accept the grief. And Maelle has to do that too, because the escape into the artificial fantasy world would eventually destroy her from within and drive her mad. This is a fact that is perfectly underlined by her ending: She simply cannot let Verso go because she would lose her brother and have to admit that she is responsible for his death.

At first, I also hoped for a happy ending because I'd grown so fond of the characters. But after a few days, I felt both the true endings were fitting. Because in real life, at some point we also have to say goodbye to the people we live with and we love. Accept that we have to let them go and now live in a world without them.

 

[calico]

Its funny because the game treats Lumiere as a throwaway toy starting at the epilogue of act 2. So while I have an attachment to the Expedition et.al cast, the game wants me to care way more about The Family.

It does kind of seem that way.

Also, while both endings could be described as having pros and cons, I think the Verso ending seeks to shine a spotlight on its pros and tries to sweep its cons under the rug, while the Maelle ending does the opposite. It suggests the game creators have a preference for one over the other, but if that's the case they have not done what they needed to do in the rest of the story (show me that Painted people are not real) to make me go along with them.

For me, Painted Verso is absolutely a villain. He lies to and manipulates the party into helping him carry out a genocide and that is his plan from the moment we meet him (albeit with some apparent lapses in commitment along the way).

 

[Schmendrick]

Full agreement. The Maelle ending should have been just that, but sadly that wasn't what we got. Verso should have been allowed his wish for his being in the painting to end, and Maelle should have said goodbye to him, and left the others to live their lives. The painting should have been a vacation spot of sorts, rather than a substitute for reality.

Ideally, if you maxed out your relationship side stories with each character, both endings could have had happier versions. A happy Maelle ending I mentioned above. A happy Verso ending could have been Maelle granting him the end to his immortality, and being able to live out the rest of his life in the painting with Sciel or Lune, with Maelle also agreeing to return to the real world.

Instead we're left with two endings about one person imposing their will on another. Maelle having the character growth required to leave according to her own free will would have been the good ending to me.

why do endings have to be happy or not? "Black or white" only exists in fairytales, and a staple sign of great writing is instead representing all the grey areas with the vastly differing viewpoints of the involved characters.
A simple "happy end" would`ve been a very bad fit for this game.

 

[calico]

I agree that the inclusion of a happy/compromise ending probably would have been to the detriment of the game (and to discussion following the game), but it's also true that the narrative does appear to leave room for one.

It would be interesting to first break players down into whether they consider the Painted people to be real or not, and then ask which ending they chose. I'm assuming the answer to that question heavily informs the ending people pick.

 

[Wilhelm_85]

Verso also had a reasonable motive. He was a creation and trapped to live this life. He was tired of it, he was at the end of the rope and also wanted the Descendre family to move on and face the grief.

There is no villain or good guy in this game. There is no black or white, that's what the director and writer wanted. Everyone was right in their own way.

He wanted to erase reality for everyone because he was tired. That's pretty "black" if you ask me.

I agree that the inclusion of a happy/compromise ending probably would have been to the detriment of the game (and to discussion following the game), but it's also true that the narrative does appear to leave room for one.

It would be interesting to first break players down into whether they consider the Painted people to be real or not, and then ask which ending they chose. I'm assuming the answer to that question heavily informs the ending people pick.

I'd be interested in hearing the justification for how they were not real. I don't think we were given any reason to assume they weren't real or that the reality of the Painters was any more real than theirs.

 

[Wilhelm_85]

Because in real life, at some point we also have to say goodbye to the people we live with and we love. Accept that we have to let them go and now live in a world without them.

We might have to, but who wouldn't want the ability to be able to escape for a bit to a world that still contains the soul of your departed loved one? Why destroy that option, especially if the inhabitants have genuine life and consciousness? That option is available to the Painters.