You don't see the irony here, at all, do you? Otherwise you'd realize this applies to you as well.
Street Fighter V Roster Discussion: P-P-P-P-PATTERN BREAKER
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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You don't see the irony here, at all, do you? Otherwise you'd realize this applies to you as well.
WHENS HUGO!
Blackness for many is undesirable ,and any excuse to get away from that will be taken. Posting the Hot97 Dominican thing
Blackness for many is undesirable ,and any excuse to get away from that will be taken. Posting the Hot97 Dominican thing
In a nutshell.
I'm of the opinion that capcom is terrible with characterizations, so much that they often seem to lampoon some aspects of fighting/cultures. So I determine how I see a character through the lense of myopic japanese creators who don't care much for realistic depictions as they're more concerned with gameplay. Even in anime Asian characters don't look Asian. It's kinda pervasive in their media. One gripe I often make fun of is black people hair in a lot of fighting games, they're more often than not, absolutely ridiculous, but to be fair a lot of characters has stupid looking anime hair, like in tekken.
Shadoken
Member
Wait what? No we dont. This whole Rachid/Zen/Laura thing could just go down the drain especially after the Necalli reveal.
Alex/Urien and Karin? Yea we could just as likely get Oro and two SF2 characters. Nothing is really confirmed.
But Dudley isn't "obviously" black. That's why this debate has been ongoing for 15 years.
Is it really such a stretch that these two characters could share an ethnicity? I don't appreciate being made to feel racist for not automatically assuming a darker-skinned character is black.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
I never objected to exaggerated moves. I brought it up because their presence makes it harder to argue someone's style is based on a real person.
I get why this debate is annoying to you (and other people). It feels like people are trying to take something away from you by suggesting he might not be black, and it's true that there is a pattern of this kind of behavior among people who are motivated by racism to deny that certain characters are members of a certain racial group. I hope you'll trust me when I say that is NOT what I'm doing here. Again, I don't care whether he's black, I don't believe firmly that he is or isn't. I just don't see hard evidence that he is, yet some people are 100% sure that he is. I'm pushing against that certainty, as that is something I am sometimes compelled to do.
I won't pursue the argument any further because I've said what I have to say and it's certainly not my intention to make anyone genuinely upset by bringing to mind broader racial issues.
This is kinda what I love about Street Fighter. Nobody is spared getting smacked with the Stereotype Stick. Honda... How many rikishi wear sujikuma kabuki face paint? Oh, that's right, none. How many yoga masters are equal parts Mysterious Indian Challenger from Master of the Flying Guillotine crossed with Temple of Doom's Mola Ram?
Equal opportunity stereotype exploitation is part of what makes SF so fun.
KidA Seven
Member
Not depressing at all when you see what characters are rumored to come back. Even if we know the newcomers names, we don't know how they will look like or play like.
You know what to do Capcom. Give us Urien, Karin, and Alex.
KhalilSyncere
Member
Word. I'd rather he have more of his own style that derivative of a character already created. Lightweight, he'd probably look really small compared to the rest of the class. Them lightweight boxers be looking smaller than women out there.
Yeah, Latin American and Middle Eastern/Arab/Indianscould use more proper representation in SF and gaming overall as well (perhaps another thread for that).
KhalilSyncere
Member
Not really re: exaggerated moves. They still have many normal moves/movements, looks and personality within their actions in-game and out.
Actually, it isn't annoying to me at all. "It's fucking hilarious!" - Comedian
yurinka
Member
Do you remember that Ken Bogard mentioned in his leak that SFV stages where going to have time and weather effects?
Here you have what seems to be the confirmation:
Here you have what seems to be the confirmation:
I'm campaigning for a 20 something Japanese 'herbivore man' to make the cast. I mean America got Rufus.
Kappa
funny side note on the dudley debate: the random dude with the fro on the india stage in SFIV was always confusing
i hope he has nothing to do with sim/'yoga style'
it's a goddamn subcontinent we better see a distinguished fighter
yeah, they could use a cool new latino character. fuerte wasn't a fair shake last time around IMO.
i hope he has nothing to do with sim/'yoga style'
it's a goddamn subcontinent we better see a distinguished fighter
yeah, they could use a cool new latino character. fuerte wasn't a fair shake last time around IMO.
I'm emphatically -not- playing it! Street Fighter gonna Street Fighter, whether it's giving us a Japanese with blonde hair, a French with blue hair, or a Thai with red hair.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Why? Because I'm being conclusive?
qcf x2 already showed how inane the "i need official confirmation" stance is.
If you think I'm ignoring how underrepresented other ethnicities are in modern media, I'm not. Let me ask you this: Although blacks are underrepresented compared to whites in media, how is that ratio compared to indian characters? Okay, given that, what's the likelyhood that Dudley is Black compared to him being Indian?
Long convoluted explanation about race ratios in the UK vs him resembling evander holyfield as much as balrog resembles tyson.
You can call it up for interpretation all you want but all interpretations aren't created equal.
Knowing capcom it'd be another yoga fighter maybe related to sim. Or a Bollywood actor with dance choreography.
Actually somebody in the archetype of a young amitabh bachan could be cool. He could rival Fei long.
Shadoken
Member
Could the poster in SF4 India stage be a hint ?
JimmyJones
Banned
Birdie is black, Dudley is white but very tanned. That's how I've always seen it.
dude that's a dope idea. see, that feels like an example of a good SF-style caricature. there's a lot you could do with that concept.
unfortunately, if 'Zen' is his name we might get something more stoic, but I'd be down for that direction too I guess. gimme some of that Netero buddhic style shit from Hunter X Hunter maybe
speaking of Indians, Darun was a pretty damn good character.
Though Dudley here is the jumping off point I'm not specifically talking about him (I will say that though that Capcom is free to invoke the Word of God at any point, given the literature and comparisons I've read over the years I'm definitely in the "Black" camp).
What I'm talking about is the there is always a fight about ethnicity when it comes to Black (which I define as of near African ancestry) characters in fiction. More than once have I head "Sean from SFIII can't be Black because he's Brazilian" or "I'm pretty sure Lisa from DOA is actually a ganguro girl". Hell I've even heard "Actually, Iris is a racist depiction of Chinese people and not Black". Someone always wants to start a fight, someone always want to butt in with an unprompted "actually....", etc. After a while, especially if you are someone who is Black, you notice these constant patterns and conversations. Same with "I can't relate" and other nonsense. You eventually see through the bullshit that tends to permeate these conversations and infer the likely conscious or subconscious motive.
To be clear, I'm not accusing you of anything so you don't need to get all defensive. I don't know you well enough and most of my interactions with you or that I've observed where you've been present have been pleasant from my recollection. I understand that trying discern the background of fictional characters, especially highly stylized characters, can often be difficult. I'm just saying that these sorts of conversations are super common, frustrating and disheartening especially the mental gymnastics I feel the opposing side often has to engage in to "prove" their point.
Well said
should have been juri over vega IMO, assuming the remaining 3 returning characters are urien alex and karin. but she's gonna sell wayyy more as DLC than Vega would have, so I guess that's that.
SF4 roster is perfect for dlc. SF3 characters need to be in the initial roster far more.
I cant speak to those other non-Street Fighter examples, but I dont think anyone on GAF is calling Dudleys race into question for dubious reasons. There are some very legitimate reasons to think that Dudley might be British Indian. I fully accept Balrog, Dee Jay, Birdie, Sean, and Elena as black characters. I just dont think Dudley is black. Thats one character out of six. Its not some kind of racist conspiracy or anything.
Remapped88
Member
.......I'm sorry but how did you even get that? If there's anybody that's a very tanned white guy in SF, it's Urien.
notworksafe
Member
If Juri doesn't make the main roster she will 100% be DLC, probably the first character. I'd bet she's making it though.
I hate being this guy but Vega barring the leaks holding true, is the only character I am less than pleased to see but I also understand it.
Juri and such would definitely sell more DLC than he would so it is smart business. I am just glad that most of the cast is people who haven't appeared for a while
Juri and such would definitely sell more DLC than he would so it is smart business. I am just glad that most of the cast is people who haven't appeared for a while
What are they?
agreed- i really hope it's a complete 180 from Dhalsim's design & playstyle
this i could see, and would totally be down with 100%
Lmao
Emperor Bohe
Member
Stone Ocean
Member
Chun, Bison, Akuma
KhalilSyncere
Member
Perhaps not on the surface of your concious mind, but it is and does often happen, if even subconsciously, due to media conditioning, from many other non-blacks, constantly. This is very much a deep, sociological issue. Dudley, would be the very 1 out of 6 that you or others just so happen to not think of as being black, considering at least 3 out of those other 5 are outright caricatures and among all 6, Dudley practically has the least stereotypical black characterizations displayed in modern media, specially not many, if any that are in a negative light of stereotype, for nearly any stereotype that he does exhibit and fall under.
- Britain and India have a very, very strong historical connection (see here).
- Indians are the largest minority group in the UK (see here).
- A decade after the "Dudley might be Indian" rumors began, Capcom gave him a Freddie Mercury costume in Street Fighter IV. Freddie Mercury is the most famous, mainstream British Indian celebrity.
For what reason ?
Havng at least one character representing III and other IV would be best.
Shadoken
Member
Werent they boss characters?
And yea Chun was ridiculously popular. Not just in SF but mainstream media , being the first female character and all that. Juri or Viper arent anywhere close to that.
Emperor Bohe
Member
Tom was not killed IIRC
I always interpreted his bronze skin color as -literally- bronze, i.e. he coats himself in metal when he blows off his suit. Goes with his metallic clang block sounds etc.
nope. prefer both from sf3. characters introduced in sf3 were not represented in the initial roster for sf4 so i believe sf4 should not be represented in the initial roster for sfv. come on alex and urien.
well ya, it's bronzing like a bodybuilder. He's suppose to be in the image of like a Greek God and shit.
KidA Seven
Member
But beyond conjecture you really don't have anything at 100% right? Or anything implies more by Capcom? Because there can be just as many implications against for Dudley being black.
Aww yeah.
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