what the twist infers is better than the twist itself imo. it decimates the legend of big boss as a hero and reveals him to be a scheming bastard who used one of his most trusted men in a horrible way that ultimately leads to them dying in his place.
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SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
- Thread starter Love Deterrence
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The tank bosses in Peace Walker are terrible, but they don't throw a dozen of them at you with invisible health bars.
Death Metalist
Member
I can see where you're coming from and that's totally fine. I didn't know what to think when the game ended but the more I thought about it, the more I liked it. The meta message, MSX sounds, final talk between Kaz/Ocelot, the truth tapes and the final scene between real BB & ocelot. All of these things stood out to me and far outweighed the fact that I was a body double.
In all honesty I was hoping we'd hear Hayter one last time haha, if I would to describe my perfect ending it would be that it ends with SS as Hayter infiltrating Outer Heaven. I read that it was supposed to end on an MG homage but they ran out of money.
That is what I took out of it too the more I thought about it, I mean there is a reason the camera zooms in on his face then he has that last stare or more like evil stare lol.
Really wish there was a way to keep her. Guess that's something someone will mod into the PC version, but at this rate its better to keep quiet and S-rank all the earlier missions with her, than to rush ahead and lose her and complete the story.
it's kinda in the background but not elaborated on. there's the talk about the ethnic conflicts between groups in africa, then you've got the soviet invasion of afghanistan being an imperialist action, then details on colonisation going on in both africa and afghanistan. i think it was meant to have more to it, but again, things got cut heavily after chapter 1.
You don't need to do any variation missions.
Yeah I kinda regret doing it and my chopper blasting Quiet's theme whenever it's nearby is like rubbing salt into my wounds.
At least the sequences it triggered were nice. I also didn't mind the mission itself, which helps a lot. But I can totally understand why people would hate it.
I think 'Race' was chosen because it sounds taboo and ends with an 'e'.
The ideas of racism, or even an arms 'race', are only really touched upon. They aren't a central theme like Gene (being subservient to your genetics), Meme (being subservient to the information passed on to you) or Scene (being subservient to the times).
Basileus777
Member
Which bomb was this?
eh... you've got a huge structure to hide behind when things are getting hairy. the only major problem i had with the mission was going in without the equipment i needed to finish it. i sat in a cardboard box at the start of the mission for two hours while my upgraded launcher finished developing.
it's not a great mission but seriously, it's better than any apc/tank/chopper battle on the harder sections of peace walker.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Where he says he is a wolf, not a dog? lol
Death Metalist
Member
I think it's when he says how delusional they are to the point of labeling DD a dog when he's a wolf.
about how everybody on the base calls him d-dog but refuse to acknowledge he's a wolf. i thought that was pretty cool, because nobody seems to see the obvious.
Basileus777
Member
The meta message of the body double essentially being us, the players, was good. I liked that, but at the same time it was bullshit because it lessened the legend that is Big Boss & all he accomplished. It's like what the Patriots did with Raiden in MGS2. However, Raiden was still his own man & so was Solid Snake. Big Boss' legend is now split in two because of this body double bit. It hurts the character for me. I liked Big Boss more than Solid Snake because of everything he had been through, but now the body double twist has me thinking half the shit he did wasn't even him to begin with.
The closest the story gets to race is talking about Englishization and ethnic cleansing with Code Talker and Skull Face. Which is touched upon in the tapes more than anything.
Also when you get the Hero Rank (150k heroism), you unlock the Cobra Unit nicknames for your emblem.
Also when you get the Hero Rank (150k heroism), you unlock the Cobra Unit nicknames for your emblem.
Still don't understand why everyone was expecting Big Boss to turn heel after the events of MGS4, where, ya know, we find out that Cypher has been manipulating information and events for years, and we find out that Solid Snake is basically a rube being used by the AI's to bring down its enemies, namely Big Boss, FOX Hound, and Solidus, who were all trying to rebel against Cypher in the first place.
MGS4 set up Big Boss to be someone who was fighting against the totalitarian control that Zero was working for, and then wham, in waltzes Solid Snake, essentially a tool of Cypher, to mess things up.
Looking back at MG1 and MG2 and trying to parse specific dialog is going to be problematic since Kojima has admitted that as such, he needed to re-do those games to fit into his current canon.
MGS4 set up Big Boss to be someone who was fighting against the totalitarian control that Zero was working for, and then wham, in waltzes Solid Snake, essentially a tool of Cypher, to mess things up.
Looking back at MG1 and MG2 and trying to parse specific dialog is going to be problematic since Kojima has admitted that as such, he needed to re-do those games to fit into his current canon.
it's hard to really say without knowing the full extent of what got cut. i think we can safely say there were meant to be more chapters though. i'm surprised that they even left the chapter title cards in there considering there are only two and that chapter 2 is 5 or so missions of new content
Yeah. You can tell that Konami heavily objected which has lead to the watering down of the theme. Probably caused a domino effect where everything built on it such as the bosses descent ending up crumbling and is weaker for it.
SkylineRKR
Member
Actually I don't care about losing Quiet. I never used her in the modified replays (except the Skulls battle, but the Walker works as well). Much rather relied on DD there, or the Horse for a quick getaway. S ranked pretty much everything in Chapter 2 without her.
I loved, loved doing Pitch Dark in Total Stealth on my own for example. Game is more fun without a game breaking Quiet.
I loved, loved doing Pitch Dark in Total Stealth on my own for example. Game is more fun without a game breaking Quiet.
Death Metalist
Member
It's totally fine to feel like that though, it isn't a matter of who's right or not in the end. It's funny though that Otacon and Snake both avoided the sins of their fathers. They are like the only main characters who always did the right thing no matter what, even when they had fucked up parents. I suppose you could put Raiden with them as well.
I can't believe this is it. I can't believe this is what I've been waiting for all these years. I'm... disappointed. The gameplay is superb, best in the series even. But it required a big sacrifice.
This game. It's not... It's not a Metal Gear Solid game. This might sound a little extreme. Yes, it still has funny tapes. It still has funny gameplay mechanics. But it lost the most important part of Metal Gear, to me. It lost its personality. The game is too serious for its own good. I guess some people will be fine with this as the franchise has always been way very tongue-in-cheek, but that's what I liked so much about it.
This franchise has always had over the top villains, crazy good boss fights, a storyline that is both hilarious and emotional and it just all fit together, you know? It sounds like a messed up combination, but it worked just fine for Metal Gear Solid.
I appreciate Kojima finally perfected the gameplay to this. The game has tons of options. But the open world feels empty. And the missing link he promised us, the big question that would finally be solved after 28 years remains unsolved. People wanted to see Big Boss become a demon. People wanted Gray Fox to be here. People wanted a fallout between Big Boss and Kaz. Perhaps even ending with Solid Snake infiltrating Outer Heaven.
That's not to say you can't make an interesting story without the things I just listed, but that's not even the case. The story is very weak in this game. And with weak, I don't mean it doesn't make any sense like a lot of the MGS games. It's weak because it's just there. The game doesn't do much with it. There is very little personality. A lot of the characters are weak. Boss fights are disappointing and mostly not even there.
It's a great game, just not a great Metal Gear Solid game.
This game. It's not... It's not a Metal Gear Solid game. This might sound a little extreme. Yes, it still has funny tapes. It still has funny gameplay mechanics. But it lost the most important part of Metal Gear, to me. It lost its personality. The game is too serious for its own good. I guess some people will be fine with this as the franchise has always been way very tongue-in-cheek, but that's what I liked so much about it.
This franchise has always had over the top villains, crazy good boss fights, a storyline that is both hilarious and emotional and it just all fit together, you know? It sounds like a messed up combination, but it worked just fine for Metal Gear Solid.
I appreciate Kojima finally perfected the gameplay to this. The game has tons of options. But the open world feels empty. And the missing link he promised us, the big question that would finally be solved after 28 years remains unsolved. People wanted to see Big Boss become a demon. People wanted Gray Fox to be here. People wanted a fallout between Big Boss and Kaz. Perhaps even ending with Solid Snake infiltrating Outer Heaven.
That's not to say you can't make an interesting story without the things I just listed, but that's not even the case. The story is very weak in this game. And with weak, I don't mean it doesn't make any sense like a lot of the MGS games. It's weak because it's just there. The game doesn't do much with it. There is very little personality. A lot of the characters are weak. Boss fights are disappointing and mostly not even there.
It's a great game, just not a great Metal Gear Solid game.
Just finished mission 46, so I can finally enter this thread.
I don't really know what to think about this. I enjoyed the game, the ending comes full circle, classic Kojima shenanigans. But something feels off, it just feels a bit empty. Metal Gear doesn't feel finished as a series and I think I'm just a bit bitter that this is how it's sent off.
I don't really know what to think about this. I enjoyed the game, the ending comes full circle, classic Kojima shenanigans. But something feels off, it just feels a bit empty. Metal Gear doesn't feel finished as a series and I think I'm just a bit bitter that this is how it's sent off.
They had the groundwork for him to turn heel, Kojima just chose not to. And Big Boss in MGS4 admits that both he and Zero fucked up.
It made sense, but instead we get Master Miller's revenge story, with Big Boss being sort of along for the ride. Peace Walker -> Ground Zeroes -> The Phantom Pain has a believable arc where I could see someone falling victim to the desire for revenge and being irredeemably corrupted by it. But Kojima seems to attached to Big Boss to even have faux Big Boss travel down that road of wanting to kill someone just out of revenge.
Basileus777
Member
Seeing the Quiet ending is the only thing left for me in terms of new content. I'm wondering whether I should grind the last bit of her bond to see it. I ended up using DD for most of the game because I found him to be by far the most useful buddy so I might not care if I couldn't use Quiet.
BossDarkseid
Member
What are the conditions for the Truth Ending?
Death Metalist
Member
All I was hoping for was a game better than PW and more interesting than it which is what we got for the most part, I'm glad. You know after MGS4, the series to me ended so I guess that's why the twist/story in a prequel game doesn't bother me as much.
Dawg in the building. Kojima played you like a fiddle.
I'm glad I went in with the expectations of Peace Walker rather than the other mainline titles. But still it's a disappointment.
It's been brutal following you on twitter...knowing the disappointment that was coming.
It's so evident when you see the differences in tones between OT and here. Backlash is a comin' yo'
SkylineRKR
Member
Not sure but it popped up for me along with 47 and the rest. I think you need to have done all yellow side ops, and Mission 1-44. Its also said you need to upgrade MB to a certain point. I only maxed out the command platform. Buddies were maxed out as well.
Right, that's my biggest issue. It isn't a bad game. It's a fantastic game. I just feel like I didn't actually get Metal Gear Solid 5, but as Splinter Cell / Far Cry game wearing Metal Gear Solid 5's skin.
Thinking of it as a spin off, a 'MGSV' rather than 'MGS5', helps me to view it in a better light. Heck, thinking of it as a Peace Walker 2 does the same. It just doesn't have the uniqueness and character that makes me think "Yeah, I just played the fifth instalment of Metal Gear Solid".
Quiet is actually super OP. If you have to infiltrate any kind of compound she can basically clear it out for you and you just go in and get the objective.
That's how I feel about this game as well. The first three MGS games will never be topped.
The seriousness of the story wasn't the problem. In fact, I think the seriousness helped MGSV a lot. The problem was the body double twist. http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=177748841
Couldn't agree more.
BossDarkseid
Member
Eugh. Fuck that Extreme Quiet fight. Oh well, soldier on I suppose P
You can just cheese it by calling an airstrike on her position for what it's worth.
Palette Swap
Member
I remember Kojima mentioning last year that it was supposed to be the central theme.
In retrospect, it comes across as a quickly thrown together afterthought, like much of chapter 2 and the big ideas introduced after chapter 1 (battle gear, developing your nukes and pretty much every story arc).
Edit: honestly, I kind of wish anyone would pick up the slate and manage to make the complete game Kojima didn't. It has some incredible gameplay but the rest is cracking at the seams.
SkylineRKR
Member
Yeah, I called sleep grenades. Didn't S it yet. But, not needed for the unlocks (which are awesome).
But bosses don't need to be tranqed. I farmed skulls with LMG and all sorts of shit.
But bosses don't need to be tranqed. I farmed skulls with LMG and all sorts of shit.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
"From FOX, TWO Phantoms were born."
Three Big Bosses (1 real and 2 phantoms) ??????
Ok. This is insane.
Hopefully the swimming pool that kills Huey was sent by the Patriots. Scumbag POS.
"That's right, The Pool unit is in place. No one will suspect it was anything other than a simple accident"
"And the fact he survived being in a raft in the pacific ocean?"
"Hypnotherapy is in place. Not even Huey remembers that he somehow survived a huge body of water.
"Very good, Sometimes revenge is a dish best served... damp"
"Thank you, Mr President." *Hangs up*
THE SINS NEVER DIE.
"That's right, The Pool unit is in place. No one will suspect it was anything other than a simple accident"
"And the fact he survived being in a raft in the pacific ocean?"
"Hypnotherapy is in place. Not even Huey remembers that he somehow survived a huge body of water.
"Very good, Sometimes revenge is a dish best served... damp"
"Thank you, Mr President." *Hangs up*
THE SINS NEVER DIE.
SkylineRKR
Member
From FOX, 2 Phantoms were born might as well mean GZ and TPP running on FOX engine. Its never explained, is it?
Huey should've been shot. Like Snake should've commited suicide in 4.
Huey should've been shot. Like Snake should've commited suicide in 4.
Yes these are my thoughts.
The gameplay is pretty much open world splinter cell, so basically far cry and splinter cell mixed together and that's a terrific formula. But it's not a Metal Gear game...not because it lacks cutscenes but because it's just not good on that front.
I agree with everything here, dawg
ShadowKhaN
Banned
I hate to say this but losing quiet and the twist absolutely ruined this game for me. Was looking forward to continuing running mother base and stuff after the game ended, now without quiet I dont even want to play, and restarting...eventually ill have to keep a stupid butterfly emblem instead of what I want...and cant hit 100%.
Such a shame, if they didnt rush chapter 2 so much this game would have been a 10/10
Now I feel It drops to an 8.5-9
Am I the only one that feels like this? Feeling gutted. Weird to go from playing 10-15 hours a day to having no drive to play at all. Dammit
Such a shame, if they didnt rush chapter 2 so much this game would have been a 10/10
Now I feel It drops to an 8.5-9
Am I the only one that feels like this? Feeling gutted. Weird to go from playing 10-15 hours a day to having no drive to play at all. Dammit
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Not really, it was Zero's idea. BB just went along with it. When Ocelot rescues him, he asks "what about him" (V) and Ocelot says he'll be fine.
People acting like this game portrays BB badly is grasping at straws, V even seems happy when he's told he's Big Boss, and he nods to what BB is saying. Big Boss was never a schemer, he's a soldier.
"What about the ... other project"
"The son?"
"Yes ... has the program been implanted?"
"It has. The son now has the uncanny ability to attract women out of his league"
"And the wife?"
"He's banging her as we speak"
"That's good to hear. Thank you."
"No, it's my pleasure ... Mr. Director." *hangs up*
Yeah, I finally played the truth ending last night after 68.5 hours. I watched it again and again and I've finally found the meaning behind those extreme, subsistence and total stealth missions.
Dont get me wrong, I fully believed they ran out of time and placed them in as filler, but that filler also has meaning behind it. Weapons OSP, total stealth or game over, no back up or buddies. Exactly what a Big Boss playthrough is. Not a lot of players chose the Extreme difficulty when playing through, so forcing the player to experiencing those missions is forcing the player to play as the real Big Boss. They're there to show us that we all can be Big Boss, ANYBODY can be Big Boss under the RIGHT circumstances. How many other MGS games have forced us to complete extreme, subsistence and total stealth playthroughs? NONE. They're there to reinforce the retcon, to show us and tell us that everything's a lie, we shouldn't always beleive what we hear and are told by others.
That scene where Big Boss asks Venom if he knows what he needs to do? It's basically sending him to his death, Venom walks into the smoking darkness to meet his fate at the hands of Johns clone. We can see its Operation Intrude, we can see its Outer Heaven. Big Boss tells him that they're both Big Boss, reinforcing the fact to the player that it's just a code name for the ultimate soldier. Big Boss is John/Jack, Venom is whatever you name him.
Although Kojima could have used that scene for people to interpret openly, we see smoke, we see mirrors.
It could all be smoke and mirrors, everything we have seen could be a lie. Venom walks into the smoke and mirrors, into the black, never to return.
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