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[Unknown One]

Solid Snake is the true villain killing poor Venom.

Solid is a much bigger humanitarian though. Win win for the world.

 

[Toa TAK]

I still wish we got to see HD The Boss.

 

[ezekial45]

Are we forgetting that venom snake still kidnaps hundreds of people to make them fight their former comrades (just like snake and the boss) or nah?

But wolf pups, child soldiers, and turning the fallen into diamonds...

 

[hamchan]

Are we forgetting that venom snake still kidnaps hundreds of people to make them fight their former comrades (just like snake and the boss) or nah?

And build nukes, and tortures people, and keeps giant robot death machines on base.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Did Big Boss ever ask the AI pod if his interpretation of The Boss' will wasn't utter shit?

No he just kept asking it if boss really betrayed him.


He never got over the Q_Q.

 

[Alienous]

I still wish we got to see HD The Boss.

Nah, HD Volgin looked like a chump.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

The Boss: "This is true loyalty, and it fucking sucks, because now I have to die horribly at the hands of a good friend to prevent the USA and Soviet Union descending into a Third World War, and the only reason I'm in this position is because of bullshit USA officials who manipulated me and said friend. Shit sucks dude, it would be sweet if the world were just one, you know?"

Big Boss: "I INTERPRET THIS AS FUELLING THE CYCLE OF VIOLENCE BY TURNING THE ENTIRE WORLD INTO SOLDIERS"
Major Zero: "I INTERPRET THIS AS CREATING THE ILLUMINATI THAT MANIPULATES AND CONTROLS THE WORLD FROM BEHIND THE SCENES"

Venom: "i just wanna save kids and puppies"

In a nutshell. Which sucks because I'm sure that Venom Snake would've been a great dad to Solid Snake.

Fucking Big Boss. I bet he would've kicked DD off Motherbase. Literally.

 

[MMarston]

I still wish we got to see HD The Boss.

We did

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Are we forgetting that venom snake still kidnaps hundreds of people to make them fight their former comrades (just like snake and the boss) or nah?

He takes them to Disneyland for soldiers.

 

[Jintor]

Portable Ops.

Remember that game, guys?

REMEMBER?

we can finally put all that san hieronymo stuff behind us

 

[Unknown One]

In a nutshell. Which sucks because I'm sure that Venom Snake would've been a great dad to Solid Snake.

Fucking Big Boss. I bet he would've kicked DD off Motherbase. Literally.

Don't you mean he'll eat DD in front of Ocelot?

 

[CambriaRising]

In a nutshell. Which sucks because I'm sure that Venom Snake would've been a great dad to Solid Snake.

Fucking Big Boss. I bet he would've kicked DD off Motherbase. Literally.

Through the words and deeds of Venom, we truly see Big Boss as the monster he is.

Missing link indeed.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Don't you mean he'll eat DD in front of Ocelot?

It would probably trigger a cutscene where he holds a gun to puppy DD's head, and you have to pull the trigger

That's all Big Boss is good for.

 

[Sub_Level]

It's funny because when MGS games are necessary to the overall franchise narrative (a la MGS4) people complain and say that it doesn't need to be so self-referential and more standalone.

Then Kojima does exactly that and people complain anyways. Truly, you can't please everyone. That's what happens when a writer so bad he couldn't get into his industry of choice (film) gets lifted up as some weird game-directing messiah.

Even taken on its own, isolated from the rest, I'd say MGSV does not have a plot that goes anywhere. The climax happens halfway through the game. Huey and Paz are just kind of there with scenes for dramatic effect and not much else.

You could maybe talk about how the game deals with language. Parallels between Skull Face and Venom both having their identities and faces taken away (a poster mentioned this way earlier in the thread). Others have talked about how you build up a legend without actually being the person originally behind it (which then kind of contradicts itself by saying the person behind the legend is still the true legend). But I really don't get the point. These ideas are kind of scattered from what I've experienced rather than honed in and focused on.

Also recall that people enjoyed MGS3 which was VERY isolated from the other games story-wise.

 

[Krappadizzle]

We did

Made me chuckle.

 

[Empty Space]

How does the skull face execution scene play out if you pull the trigger? I assume its the same way that you maim him and Huey ends up killing him when you walk away.

 

[Reebot]

It's funny because when MGS games are necessary to the overall franchise narrative (a la MGS4) people complain and say that it doesn't need to be so self-referential and more standalone.

Then Kojima does exactly that and people complain anyways. Truly, you can't please everyone. That's what happens when a writer so bad he couldn't get into his industry of choice (film) gets lifted up as some weird game-directing messiah.

The game's story being a disaster is completely unrelated to its isolation.

 

[Stallion Dan]

How does the skull face execution scene play out if you pull the trigger? I assume its the same way that you maim him and Huey ends up killing him when you walk away.

Shot him a bunch of times, removing limbs and then leaving him for Huey.

 

[Sub_Level]

How does the skull face execution scene play out if you pull the trigger? I assume its the same way that you maim him and Huey ends up killing him when you walk away.

You guessed it. Just with some extra shots to his chest.

 

[Krappadizzle]

How does the skull face execution scene play out if you pull the trigger? I assume its the same way that you maim him and Huey ends up killing him when you walk away.

Your assumption is correct.

 

[Jintor]

i'm guessing you can't execute quiet in her cutscene either right?

 

[Unknown One]

Also recall that people enjoyed MGS3 which was VERY isolated from the other games story-wise.

I wish it remained isolated. The Boss's will is the worst thing to happen to the series.

 

[ezekial45]

i'm guessing you can't execute quiet in her cutscene either right?

Yes you can. If you do, her entire arc is removed from the story.

 

[Sub_Level]

Another thing they bring up is the chain of retaliation. How revenvge only creates more revenge from the other side and leads to more suffering. But it seems like Venom and Miller get their revenge on Skullface without much consequence lol. They dont hurt anyone innocent on the process.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

i'm guessing you can't execute quiet in her cutscene either right?

You can actually, and you don't get Quiet.

 

[The Silver]

Why didn't The Sorrow just contact Snake and Zero and tell them to stop being jackasses?

I blame him, he could've prevented all this.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

On the subject of conspiracies, why exactly did they go through the trouble of making

hiding it and then replacing it in TPP with a custom?

Awesome, a canon appearance for Venom pre-surgery.

Spoiler

I know it's a placeholder, but I still like to think this

Man that Venom guy sure it a horrible demon.

He strikes me as a man whose loyalty is his undoing.

If anyone in here has played Fire Emblem he seems like a Camus archetype. A good guy who becomes a bad guy because of who he fights under, but can still be classified as bad because they put loyalty to the wrong person over doing what's right.

 

[Reebot]

Another thing they bring up is the chain of retaliation. How revenvge only creates more revenge from the other side and leads to more suffering. But it seems like Venom and Miller get their revenge on Skullface without much consequence lol. They dont hurt anyone innocent on the process.

The whole game is written backwards.

By "getting revenge" they actually do an incredibly heroic thing and save the world.

It should be the opposite, their revenge drives them to do horrible deeds.

Kojima was just afraid of making his protagonist actually villainous. So we get this wishy-washy BS, where Kaz monologues constantly about how mad he is without ever doing something evil.

 

[Xpike]

The Boss: "This is true loyalty, and it fucking sucks, because now I have to die horribly at the hands of a good friend to prevent the USA and Soviet Union descending into a Third World War, and the only reason I'm in this position is because of bullshit USA officials who manipulated me and said friend. Shit sucks dude, it would be sweet if the world were just one, you know?"

Big Boss: "I INTERPRET THIS AS FUELLING THE CYCLE OF VIOLENCE BY TURNING THE ENTIRE WORLD INTO SOLDIERS"
Major Zero: "I INTERPRET THIS AS CREATING THE ILLUMINATI THAT MANIPULATES AND CONTROLS THE WORLD FROM BEHIND THE SCENES"

Venom: "i just wanna save kids and puppies"

you forgot the part where Zero makes clones of Big Boss, his closest friend, to keep him around as an icon, not respecting his will.

everyone's a bunch of dicks

 

[PensOwl]

Another thing they bring up is the chain of retaliation. How revenvge only creates more revenge from the other side and leads to more suffering. But it seems like Venom and Miller get their revenge on Skullface without much consequence lol. They dont hurt anyone innocent on the process.

I was hoping kaz's lust for revenge would attract mantis to him and fuck up mother base a little.

 

[Empty Space]

It kind of strikes me as strange that you can't get The Patriot, Tanegashima Musket, Railgun, or Skull Face's shotgun as research objectives. There are no rank 7 or 8 items in the entire game and those things probably would have been good fits. I wonder if there were a ton of items cut that would fit into those tiers.

I was hoping kaz's lust for revenge would attract mantis to him and fuck up mother base a little.

Code Talker's line of watching out for Miller goes basically nowhere.

 

[The Silver]

I really wanna know how deep the cut content well goes.

Kojima talking all that shit promising taboos, looking at how how dark Ground Zeroes got, and then PP comes out and blows a lot of hot air.

 

[CambriaRising]

Fucking zero just steals Venom's entire life away after he is in a coma for 9 years without any consent, but then Big Boss is cool with that and allows him to be a decoy so he can go build Zanzibarland.

It's a shame Kojima didn't retcon a mission to go put a bullet in both of them instead.

 

[Basketball]

Awesome. She reminds me of the Major from GITS. She looks badass.

By the way, where's the best place to get some S rank soldiers. I'd imagine it won't be like PW where you can farm certain missions to ad nauseum, but I assume that certain missions could have greater instances of high ranked people appearing.

Mission 23 guaranteed

I didn't get her from this mission but this mission always has a female prisoner with great combat stats and her face and voice changes all the time

go to the house, extract her ... go near the roofs and you can snipe Eli with a tranq rifle just to alert him ...you will see prisoner extracted then quit to Acc ... you dont even have to complete the mission

 

[Ōkami]

Regarding Mantis revenge thing.

Why didn't he connect with Miller, why would Eli be more vengeful than him?

I mean the man lose 2 limbs and a lot of friends.

Eli got a little beat up.

 

[Unknown One]

Fucking zero just steals Venom's entire life away after he is in a coma for 9 years without any consent, but then Big Boss is cool with that and allows him to be a decoy so he can go build Zanzibarland.

It's a shame Kojima didn't retcon a mission to go put a bullet in both of them instead.

There you go, Big Boss is a villain in this game. We got a huge jackass.

 

[Jintor]

Yes you can. If you do, her entire arc is removed from the story.

You can actually, and you don't get Quiet.

Wow. Does it even cut the line where Skullface is like "the second strain is REAL CLOSE TO YA"

 

[SolVanderlyn]

There you go, Big Boss is a villain in this game. We got a huge jackass.

I'm just being facetious, but he even looks the part.

Leather jacket, motorcycle, cigar, ice cold stare... classic bully.

Regarding Eli, the tapes explain that Mantis resonates more strongly with kids. Also, a kid's rage about getting beat up is probably not much less powerful than an adult losing an arm. Kids lose their shit over small things. And look at Liquid as a person... guy has anger problems.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Fucking zero just steals Venom's entire life away after he is in a coma for 9 years without any consent, but then Big Boss is cool with that and allows him to be a decoy so he can go build Zanzibarland.

It's a shame Kojima didn't retcon a mission to go put a bullet in both of them instead.

And then it's revealed that the real shooter is Garden Snake, the REAL chosen apprentice of the Boss, who has been following and taking care of Ocelot since the beginning. And like the Garden Snake, he struck from behind the bushes to kill Big Boss and Venom Snake.

BUT THAT'S NOT ALL, from behind Garden Snake comes out 'The Manager', the REAL Mentor. It turns out the Boss stole her identity, and they were tipped off by Major Uno. The Manager is an original member of the Philosophers, and she has lived because of molecules. The same molecules that powers The Fury's jetpack! And this all culminates on 9/11, those same molecules....are used as Jet Fuel to melt steel beams.

Kojima you've done it again.

 

[JayEH]

And then it's revealed that the real shooter is Garden Snake, the REAL chosen apprentice of the Boss, who has been following and taking care of Ocelot since the beginning. And like the Garden Snake, he struck from behind the bushes to kill Big Boss and Venom Snake.

BUT THAT'S NOT ALL, from behind Garden Snake comes out 'The Manager', the REAL Mentor. It turns out the Boss stole her identity, and they were tipped off by Major Uno. The Manager is an original member of the Philosophers, and she has lived because of molecules. The same molecules that powers The Fury's jetpack! And this all culminates on 9/11, those same molecules....are used as Jet Fuel to melt steel beams.

Kojima you've done it again.

Kek.

 

[CambriaRising]

And then it's revealed that the real shooter is Garden Snake, the REAL chosen apprentice of the Boss, who has been following and taking care of Ocelot since the beginning. And like the Garden Snake, he struck from behind the bushes to kill Big Boss and Venom Snake.

BUT THAT'S NOT ALL, from behind Garden Snake comes out 'The Manager', the REAL Mentor. It turns out the Boss stole her identity, and they were tipped off by Major Uno. The Manager is an original member of the Philosophers, and she has lived because of molecules. The same molecules that powers The Fury's jetpack! And this all culminates on 9/11, those same molecules....are used as Jet Fuel to melt steel beams.

Kojima you've done it again.

The greatest auteur of our time.

 

[Unknown One]

I'm just being facetious, but he even looks the part.

http://i.imgur.com/y1c6zA4.jpg

Leather jacket, motorcycle, cigar, ice cold stare... classic bully.

Regarding Eli, the tapes explain that Mantis resonates more strongly with kids. Also, a kid's rage about getting beat up is probably not much less powerful than an adult losing an arm. Kids lose their shit over small things. And look at Liquid as a person... guy has anger problems.

Hahaha

Liquid takes after his father after all.

 

[raven777]

Regarding Mantis revenge thing.

Why didn't he connect with Miller, why would Eli be more vengeful than him?

I mean the man lose 2 limbs and a lot of friends.

Eli got a little beat up.

They do mention child's will (or way it emits something I forgot exact term) is a lot stronger than adults, so that's why Matnis was attached to Eli instead of other people.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

I'm just being facetious, but he even looks the part.

Leather jacket, motorcycle, cigar, ice cold stare... classic bully.

Regarding Eli, the tapes explain that Mantis resonates more strongly with kids. Also, a kid's rage about getting beat up is probably not much less powerful than an adult losing an arm. Kids lose their shit over small things. And look at Liquid as a person... guy has anger problems.

elis rage was about his sole purpose being a clone. Having a predestined fate, and being the inferior to his brother, or so he believed.

 

[Royal Rainbow]

Wait, why did they wait 9 years for that medic to wake up from the coma? Just to make him look like big boss? Couldn't they have used anyone for that?
Did they medically induce a coma in the medic for 9 years while they waited for Big Boss to wake up? I have to be missing something here.

 

[Mister Negative]

It's still weird to me referring to "venom" and thinking of him as this separate character. It's so hard to differentiate him from big boss in my brain.

 

[Severance]

I wish it remained isolated. The Boss's will is the worst thing to happen to the series.

Yeah I really love MGS3 and its story overall, but The Boss' speech at the end makes me cringe. Im not convinced she even had a proper vision for the world. Zero and Naked Snake stumble upon great power (Philosopher's Legacy) and a thirst for vengeance. That's all Big Boss and Zero needed to become who they are. Could've dropped the whole thing there, and now we get all the characters throughout the rest of the series explaining their actions as fulfilling her will, whatever that is. I'm still not sure

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Wait, why did they wait 9 years for that medic to wake up from the coma? Just to make him look like big boss? Couldn't they have used anyone for that?
Did they medically induce a coma in the medic for 9 years while they waited for Big Boss to wake up? I have to be missing something here.

The medic was his best soldier and exhibited leadership qualities and laid his life for big boss. And I think they just both happened to wakeup around the same time.

 

[Unknown One]

Yeah I really love MGS3 and its story overall, but The Boss' speech at the end makes me cringe. Im not convinced she even had a proper vision for the world. Zero and Naked Snake stumble upon great power (Philosopher's Legacy) and a thirst for vengeance. That's all Big Boss and Zero needed to become who they are. Could've dropped the whole thing there, and now we get all the characters throughout the rest of the series explaining their actions as fulfilling her will, whatever that is. I'm still not sure

What urks me is people who doesn't know her as a person wants to fulfill that will.

And then it's revealed that the real shooter is Garden Snake, the REAL chosen apprentice of the Boss, who has been following and taking care of Ocelot since the beginning. And like the Garden Snake, he struck from behind the bushes to kill Big Boss and Venom Snake.

BUT THAT'S NOT ALL, from behind Garden Snake comes out 'The Manager', the REAL Mentor. It turns out the Boss stole her identity, and they were tipped off by Major Uno. The Manager is an original member of the Philosophers, and she has lived because of molecules. The same molecules that powers The Fury's jetpack! And this all culminates on 9/11, those same molecules....are used as Jet Fuel to melt steel beams.

Kojima you've done it again.

We found our next Kojima here boys. Let this man direct MGS6 Konami!

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Wait, why did they wait 9 years for that medic to wake up from the coma? Just to make him look like big boss? Couldn't they have used anyone for that?
Did they medically induce a coma in the medic for 9 years while they waited for Big Boss to wake up? I have to be missing something here.

BB woke up some time before venom, how long exactly we don't know, after venom wakes up they send the codephrase (v has come to), to indicate operation switch boss was in effect, and proceeded with the surgery.
The actual switching was already done like...7 years earlier, with hypnosis and such to change his memories and experiences.

I'm guessing Cipher XOF picked up on the codephrase and then assualted the hospital.