Street Fighter V Roster Discussion: P-P-P-P-PATTERN BREAKER

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direct_quote said:
That concept art is pretty terrible, don't know why people even like that. Black Rufus was much better.
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Because it's not generic black dude in a gi whose design says nothing other than being a martial artist and black. See, that early Abel design has personality. The bandaged top says she's a bad bitch that went through some shit. The pigtails also lets you know she a little bit of a playful spirit about her, the sandals provides a little bit of the old school in it and immediately puts the sound of the wooden clanks in your ear. The choice for blue in the gi adds a nice contrast to the red gloves and also adds a bit of coolness to her demeanor underneath the hell fury that's residing inside.
 
Hours Left said:
Ryu is a dude in a gi. Ken is a dude in a gi. Sean is a dude in a gi. Having an understated and polite personality doesn't mean you have no personality. Not everyone needs to be an over the top caricature, and he has enough in his backstory with his connection to Seth, Guile, Nash and by extention, M. Bison, that they there's lots of room to build an interesting story for him.

I think he's a top 10 design because as I've stated before, if I didn't know better, I say he could easily be a classic SF design. I think his streamlined appearance represents a type of elegance in design that's sorely missing from the series.

The reason why I called out your (qcf x 2) post is because instead of just stating an opinion, you were disparaging someone else's without any context.
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Oh, I didn't notice the username. Haha.

Context would be realizing that Ryu and Ken get a pass because they are OGs. You can't slap the same crap on someone 4 games later and call it good.
 
Geminosity said:
Abel_girl.jpg

Would've be an instant main for me :3
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Definitely would've been preferable to what we actually got.
 
Blasian Persuasion said:
Because it's not generic black dude in a gi whose design says nothing other than being a martial artist and black. See, that early Abel design has personality. The bandaged top says she's a bad bitch that went through some shit. The pigtails also lets you know she a little bit of a playful spirit about her, the sandals provides a little bit of the old school in it and immediately puts the sound of the wooden clanks in your ear. The choice for blue in the gi adds a nice contrast to the red gloves and also adds a bit of coolness to her demeanor underneath the hell fury that's residing inside.
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I always just assumed the bandages were because she couldn't find a decent sports bra :P But yeah, I really like that original design.

My theory for why they changed Abel is that when they actually made the character in the SF4 style the hands and feet ended up being larger than the entire character so it was scrapped for a design where the sausage finger-ed steroid look of SF4 wouldn't make them look quite as stupid/be as noticably at odds with the design :P
 
Karsticles said:
Oh, I didn't notice the username. Haha.

Context would be realizing that Ryu and Ken get a pass because they are OGs. You can't slap the same crap on someone 4 games later and call it good.
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But I personally don't see Abel as a redux of another character, I'm just saying that writing someone off based on their appearance isn't really being fair to the intent of the design.

People keep bringing up his "lack of personality", but really there's almost no one in the series that behaves like him. A genuinely kind and polite guy, no OTT gimmick or shtick to rely on. I get why some people don't find this exciting, but I think characters like this have merit, particularly in a game where 90%+ of the cast are wacky individuals that can't have a normal conversation without employing some well trodden pastiche.

Abel provides balance IMO, and that's very important I'd say.

P.S. That early "Abel" design is probably a guy FYI. The description was "often gets mistaken for a female".
 
Hours Left said:
But I personally don't see Abel as a redux of another character, I'm just saying that writing someone off based on their appearance isn't really being fair to the intent of the design.

People keep bringing up his "lack of personality", but really there's almost no one in the series that behaves like him. A genuinely kind and polite guy, no OTT gimmick or shtick to rely on. I get why some people don't find this exciting, but I think characters like this have merit, particularly in a game where 90%+ of the cast are wacky individuals that can't have a normal conversation without employing some well trodden pastiche.

Abel provides balance IMO, and that's very important I'd say.

P.S. That early "Abel" design is probably a guy FYI. The description was "often gets mistaken for a female".
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I believe the original quote in japanese translates to 'could be mistaken for a girl' which could either mean they're male or they're a woman rather than a youth. A guy binding his chest like that seems a bit odd to me but I'd have happily mained them regardless :3

To be fair, to become a 'street fighter' I think you do have to be a little "off the beaten path" especially just to survive in their world :P
 
Blasian Persuasion said:
Because it's not generic black dude in a gi whose design says nothing other than being a martial artist and black. See, that early Abel design has personality. The bandaged top says she's a bad bitch that went through some shit. The pigtails also lets you know she a little bit of a playful spirit about her, the sandals provides a little bit of the old school in it and immediately puts the sound of the wooden clanks in your ear. The choice for blue in the gi adds a nice contrast to the red gloves and also adds a bit of coolness to her demeanor underneath the hell fury that's residing inside.
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We have less black dudes so it would have added more variety to the roster. Plus it was never confirmed if that was a female, people just people assumed it was. The design is more of a hodgepodge of different elements that provide no unified vision of a character. A lucky chloe design basically. Default Abel has a much better unified vision than waifu Abel (if it was a girl), just they gave Abel zero personality for some reason
 
Geminosity said:
I believe the original quote in japanese translates to 'could be mistaken for a girl' which could either mean they're male or they're a woman rather than a youth. A guy binding his chest like that seems a bit odd to me but I'd have happily mained them regardless :3

To be fair, to become a 'street fighter' I think you do have to be a little "off the beaten path" especially just to survive in their world :P
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It's much more likely that they're going for androgyny as opposed to an older woman being mistaken for for a younger woman.

"Off the beaten path" can mean a great deal of things. I didn't say there's anything wrong with wacky characters, just that I appreciate other options as well. I feel Abel is a breath of fresh air in the series.
 
Hours Left said:
Because it suits his fighting style?

What should he be wearing? He does MMA, he's wearing MMA gear.
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usf4-alt-abel-2_thumb.jpg

It should have been something like this. The problem with Abel's design isn't that it's bad, quite the contrary, as far as plain designs go it's pretty memorable.

The problem is you have this protagonist that is traveling the world searching for answers who happens to be a MMA fighter that is for some reason dressed like a professional sportsman fighter. Imagine if Ryu walked around in a clean business suit, sure it would probably look good but he's supposed to be a karate hobo. Chun li dresses the way she does because she's - supposed to be at least - undercover, meanwhile Abel just walks around everywhere wearing professional shin guards because fuck it. We wouldn't have this conversation if Abel actually dabbled in professional wrestling but that's not in his storyline anywhere until the actual SIN tournament.
 
Stone Ocean said:
usf4-alt-abel-2_thumb.jpg

It should have been something like this. The problem with Abel's design isn't that it's bad, quite the contrary, as far as plain designs go it's pretty memorable.

The problem is you have this protagonist that is traveling the world searching for answers who happens to be a MMA fighter that is for some reason dressed like a professional sportsman fighter. Imagine if Ryu walked around in a clean business suit, sure it would probably look good but he's supposed to be a karate hobo. Chun li dresses the way she does because she's - supposed to be at least - undercover, meanwhile Abel just walks around everywhere wearing professional shin guards because fuck it. We wouldn't have this conversation if Abel actually dabbled in professional wrestling but that's not in his storyline anywhere
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Lmao at Chun Li's dress being a believable undercover design...
 
direct_quote said:
We have less black dudes so it would have added more variety to the roster. Plus it was never confirmed if that was a female, people just people assumed it was. The design is more of a hodgepodge of different elements that provide no unified vision of a character. A lucky chloe design basically. Default Abel has a much better unified vision than waifu Abel (if it was a girl), just they gave Abel zero personality for some reason
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I'd have been all for king cobra over rufus, but that has no real bearing on Abel outside of it being somewhat amusing that they had a black and female/'trap' character and decided to make them both white blonde dudes instead :P

I don't agree with your assessment of Abel's original design but I tend to find most SF designs pretty uninteresting so make of that what you will.

Also, I didn't even realise chun-li was supposed to be undercover but she falls under the umbrella of characters that hold no interest for me so I've never paid her much heed :/
 
Stone Ocean said:
usf4-alt-abel-2_thumb.jpg

It should have been something like this. The problem with Abel's design isn't that it's bad, quite the contrary, as far as plain designs go it's pretty memorable.

The problem is you have this protagonist that is traveling the world searching for answers who happens to be a MMA fighter that is for some reason dressed like a professional sportsman fighter. Imagine if Ryu walked around in a clean business suit, sure it would probably look good but he's supposed to be a karate hobo. Chun li dresses the way she does because she's - supposed to be at least - undercover, meanwhile Abel just walks around everywhere wearing professional shin guards because fuck it. We wouldn't have this conversation if Abel actually dabbled in professional wrestling but that's not in his storyline anywhere until the actual SIN tournament.
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I certainly wouldn't object to that being Abel's default, I like that alt a lot. (I like pretty much all his alts.) For purely shallow reasons, I'd prefer it simply because it shows more skin. One thing I think a lot of people are also forgetting is that Abel is the only new handsome male character to debut in SFIV, something gay fans like myself appreciate.

I don't think his current default is strange though. It's an outfit that suits his fighting style, so I don't find it odd that it would be what he chooses to fight in. If we're gonna talk about weird defaults, there's many more SF characters that would be guilty of that IMO.
 
That original Abel design was pretty bad. Generic pandering androgynous character that also steps on Makoto's fat toes

King Cobra would probably end up being as bland as Sean or as blacksploitation as Sho Nuff so good riddance on that too, though Capcom could've spared us of having Rufus existing instead of that.
 
direct_quote said:
We have less black dudes so it would have added more variety to the roster. Plus it was never confirmed if that was a female, people just people assumed it was. The design is more of a hodgepodge of different elements that provide no unified vision of a character. A lucky chloe design basically. Default Abel has a much better unified vision than waifu Abel (if it was a girl), just they gave Abel zero personality for some reason
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Why would it have to be confirmed when people have eyes and black or not, if there's going to be another brother, then I want him to actually look good. You don't get cuts just for being black and how is that comparable to Lucky Chloe? I just laid out that vision holmes. Lucky Chloe is plain as day just the anime cliche of a perky and youthful anime girl with her cat accessories and headphones. That shit is done to death, the one above is not.
 
Stone Ocean said:
That original Abel design was pretty bad. Generic pandering androgynous character that also steps on Makoto's fat toes

King Cobra would probably end up being as bland as Sean or as blacksploitation as Sho Nuff
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Still better than stupid fat American who watches too many movies. Break dance fighting is Awesome.
 
Stone Ocean said:
That original Abel design was pretty bad. Generic pandering androgynous character that also steps on Makoto's fat toes.
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I feel like I've slowly developed a mental censor to the word 'pandering' over the years on the internet because it's so often used when people really mean "It's a character that I don't like that's also female" :/

...I'm not even going to go too much into that 'other' game people're linking but it was funny to see that they split abel into 'al' and 'belle' XD
 
Blasian Persuasion said:
Why would it have to be confirmed when people have eyes and black or not, if there's going to be another brother, then I want him to actually look good. You don't get cuts just for being black and how is that comparable to Lucky Chloe? I just laid out that vision holmes. Lucky Chloe is plain as day just the anime cliche of a perky and youthful anime girl with her cat accessories and headphones. That shit is done to death, the one above is not.
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People started doubting everything after Bridget.

But yeah, comparing girl Abel to Lucky Chloe makes absolutely no sense. Their similarities begin and end at them being pigtailed blondes.
 
Geminosity said:
I feel like I've slowly developed a mental censor to the word 'pandering' over the years on the internet because it's so often used when people really mean "It's a character that I don't like that's also female" :/

...I'm not even going too much about that 'other' game you're linking but it was funny to see that they split abel into 'al' and 'belle' XD
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I'm not linking anything lol

Also I'm a big fucking perv, it takes a lot to make me use the word "pandering" in an actual opinion of my own. I'm just really not into the thing Japan has with androgynous teens.
 
Stone Ocean said:
That original Abel design was pretty bad. Generic pandering androgynous character that also steps on Makoto's fat toes

King Cobra would probably end up being as bland as Sean or as blacksploitation as Sho Nuff so good riddance on that too, though Capcom could've spared us of having Rufus existing instead of that.
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"I don't like it therefore it's pandering"

And to consider Sean bland is offensive.
 
Stone Ocean said:
HAKAN IS BEAUTIFUL ON THE INSIDE OK

DON'T LET ANYONE DULL YOUR OILY SHINE
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If he didn't have his weird hair he wouldn't be so bad, and El Fuerte might be hot, but he never takes off his mask. I remember the highs and lows I felt with Hakan, when it was leaked he was a Turkish oil wrestlers (:D) then when they actually showed his design. (D:)

Abel is high on the beefcake scale, and almost all his alts utilized gay centric fetishes. Let the gays have something okay! ;_;
 
Stone Ocean said:
That original Abel design was pretty bad. Generic pandering androgynous character that also steps on Makoto's fat toes
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Androgenous characters are "pandering" now? To whom exactly?

Maybe we should make all characters grey stick figures so as to not pander to any single preference any particular person may or may not have.

Literally. Every. Single. type of person is pandering to some demographic that likes them .

Personally, the Abel we got is probably one of the most forgettable designs in street fighter history. There is zero defining feature about him other than his little upturned piggy nose
 
Hours Left said:
He most likely isn't.

The design description says "gets mistaken for a young girl", which almost certainly implies that he's male, as opposed to an older woman being mistaken for a young girl. The chest bindings further emphasizes this.
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Sarashi are usually worn around the waist with men, though, as opposed to the chest with women.
 
Korigama said:
Sarashi are usually worn around the waist with men, though, as opposed to the chest with women.
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Hence the androgyny. They are purposely trying to make you think he's a girl. That's the crux of the design.

I truly don't think the big secret of this character is that they're trying to hide a woman's age.
 
kirblar said:
Yeah, Kuma had multiple grabs at different ranges and a short range DP-esque move. That "Up Down" fierce fierce thing Birdie had is also something Kuma had. He's actually an insane design and it's a shame they can't really use him.
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I gotta shamefully admit that I have no fucking clue of what Kuma could do even though I played a lot of SFxT up to half a year into v2013 lol

Doesn't help that the Kuma players refused to use any fur color but SHINING NEON BLUE
 
Hours Left said:
The chest bindings further emphasizes this.
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Korigama said:
Sarashi are usually worn around the waist with men, though, as opposed to the chest with women.
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Again, this is the key element that bothered me. You could argue that perhaps the character has some kind of wounds to their chest to necessitate the bandages as treatment rather than chest binding but that's not a design choice that would really last (wounds heal after all :P) so it just reads to me as chest binding.

When people told me bridget was a boy I was all "Really? Ok." but for some reason I don't find it quite as easy to believe for Abel's original design.

As for the quote:
Battle Planner Taisaku Okada says that Abel was intended to convey the idea that the weak could defeat the strong, and was thusly conceived as "A small Judo character, who could be mistaken for a girl."
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It looks to me like whoever wrote the wikia article just decided for themselves that meant they were male rather than it being based on any direct confirmation by Capcom themselves. Though again I totally see how you could read that from the quote.
 
Hours Left said:
Abel was by far the best new character in SFIV design wise IMO, personality too.

One of the top 10 SF designs of all time I'd say.
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I agree and I've also seen that some people would just play as any character without thinking of how they play just because they're female but that's for another time I guess :)
 
Geminosity said:
Again, this is the key element that bothered me. You could argue that perhaps the character has some kind of wounds to their chest to necessitate the bandages as treatment rather than chest binding but that's not a design choice that would really last (wounds heal after all :P) so it just reads to me as chest binding.
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The whole point of that design element is to imply femininity.

If this really is just a young female traditional martial artist, then the design is pretty lacking IMO, because it's already handily filled by Makoto. There would be almost no reason to mention "being mistaken for a young girl" if it was an older woman because that has no intrinsic value unless she's some "1000 year old dragon" type trope. (Which is a really lame design trope to begin with.)

"Surprise! She's actually 34!" isn't really interesting.
 
I would be very happy to see the Bridget trope die off.

A masculine woman or feminine man aren't a problem- but intentionally going for the "surprise, its a male with a penis!" thing is just not something we need to be doing in 2015.
 
kirblar said:
I would be very happy to see the Bridget trope die off.

A masculine woman or feminine man aren't a problem- but intentionally going for the "surprise, its a male with a penis!" thing is just not something we need to be doing in 2015.
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That's not a surprise, that's the expected.

Kidding aside, did any of the companies come out there and do that? Seems more like a reaction from the fans than straight trolling from devs.
 
pizzacat said:
I agree and I've also seen that some people would just play as any character without thinking of how they play just because they're female but that's for another time I guess :)
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Yeah, this is true. If that's what people like, then more power to them. I'm not gonna lie, I gravitate towards attractive male characters, so I'm not gonna discount anyone's reasoning for liking who they like.

I do wonder though how many people would still be advocating for this alternate Abel design if we knew for sure if was an androgynous boy as opposed to a young female. When the design was first show, I saw a lot of "We missed out on a cute girl!" posts elsewhere.
 
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