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Metal Gear Solid V: Dissociative Disorder (Super Bunnyhop review and analysis)
- Thread starter Zombie James
- Start date
Corpsepyre
Banned
Or...just opinions?
I thought V's plot was compelling. Every time a cutscene came up and more exposition was put forward, I was watching/listening without being bored or wanting the scenes to end. I heard every single tape as well, wanting to know more about the plot, which delivered in my opinion. Surely, it did not deliver like the first 4 games did, but I enjoyed it greatly.
Just an opinion.
Empty Space
Member
Quoting myself from the spoiler thread
That's like a really small part of a much larger issue. I feel like every time you show up in one of these threads it's to be incredibly reductionist about people's critical attitudes towards it. That's kind of a shitty thing to do. We get it that you don't share people's issues with the game, but you don't have to call them petty.
That's like a really small part of a much larger issue. I feel like every time you show up in one of these threads it's to be incredibly reductionist about people's critical attitudes towards it. That's kind of a shitty thing to do. We get it that you don't share people's issues with the game, but you don't have to call them petty.
People aren't harping on it, because it happens a lot. CoD always does it and I think so does Halo. I mean that doesn't make them great, but people on here have probably come to accept them as a thing that happens. The really crazy part to me was hearing people rushing through the game with the chicken hat. Doing that is not representative of game at all.
eso76
Member
Not going to watch anything until after i beat the game. Not long now.
But sometimes i think judging a game after the dust has settled might give a wrong idea of a title.
People who had been raving about how they were absolutely loving their first 30 hrs with the game are now calling MGSV a disappointment, mostly because, i suspect, they didn't get teary eyed at the end.
A lot of people calling the story 'weak' are probably just let down by the game not ending with big explosions or some cheap emotional device.
Let's face it; a powerful finale changes your perception of the whole experience.
Which i don't think is entirely fair.
'Memories' you are left with, once the game ends, shouldn't overshadow the amount of hours of genuine fun a game gave you.
But sometimes i think judging a game after the dust has settled might give a wrong idea of a title.
People who had been raving about how they were absolutely loving their first 30 hrs with the game are now calling MGSV a disappointment, mostly because, i suspect, they didn't get teary eyed at the end.
A lot of people calling the story 'weak' are probably just let down by the game not ending with big explosions or some cheap emotional device.
Let's face it; a powerful finale changes your perception of the whole experience.
Which i don't think is entirely fair.
'Memories' you are left with, once the game ends, shouldn't overshadow the amount of hours of genuine fun a game gave you.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Why are you still in this thread. You have no interest in watching the video.
It is less a critique of the scores, but the language used in the reviews. He called it naive.
Zombie James
Banned
Finally finished watching it and I completely agree. I have no idea how a game so flawed with so many obvious, glaring issues got the scores it did. It has great stealth gameplay, easily the best in the industry, but it's flaws weigh down the experience heavily.
None of this is true.
Either way, after you're no longer playing the game, all you're left with is memories.
You have no idea what you are talking about or the issues people have. Finish the game and come back.
Jangowuzhere
Banned
This is part of the reason why I struggle to take many youtubers seriously. They lack a level professionalism that makes them come off as...I don't know...childish? He calls out many sites for giving the game a "perfect" 10, when in reality, many review sites acknowledge that 100 or 10 on their site does not mean "perfect."
His critique is perfectly valid, but I don't understand why the video opened up with him trying to invalidate the opinions of other reviewers.
He isn't. He is evaluating non critical language found in the reviews not the scores. There are issues he highlights which are completely ignored in the text of other reviewers.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
There are problems besides story-telling alone.
I don't think it's unfair to have the expectation that a game sticks a landing. That may not matter in terms of game mechanics, but in terms of a story, we should expect well done conclusions.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
So you don't know how i ends yet feel that you have an understanding of why people are disappointed with the ending? Or that it's unreasonable to expect a good ending in the first place?
Well SuperBunnyHop is a little different because he doesn't really do reviews when games launch, and they're not very frequent either. This is more a high quality breakdown and analysis of MGSV than an actual should-I-buy-it-or-not kind of review.
It's different with serialized or highly regular content like Angry Joe or Jimquisition for example. They do their thing once a week or so and that's that - people know if they are interested or not. It doesn't need a thread every time like it's new news.
Gunslinger
Member
I don't get why people get so hung up on story. Most video games don't have good story. Video games are games meant to be played. Most played and praised games are games with almost no story. LoL, dota 2, SF, cs, Minecraft etc. Mgsv gameplay is possibly one of the best gameplay I have ever played. The sheer scope of the gameplay alone is 10/10 for me. If you are so concerned about story watch a movie or read a book imo. Also mgsv story wasn't that bad. If the game was fully completed it could have been one of the greatest piece of gaming media ever made simple.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
aka "don't have standards or want the industry to aim higher."
"read a book, watch a movie" posts are garbage and need to stop
Thanks for your insightful opinion. I'm glad i'm not in your world.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
You don't understand why one of the most narrative-heavy franchises in video game history would receive criticism and disappointment from fans about the latest entry's complete failure at storytelling?
You really have no idea why
like you couldn't take 10 seconds and think about the context for a moment
Because a good story sticks with you well beyond the time you spent playing the game. Clearly all those other story heavy MGS games are only remembered fondly for their gameplay.
Also the game itself has issues not addressed by most other reviews.
Primethius
Banned
I'd love for the industry to aim higher personally when it comes to stories and story telling techniques.
One of the last developers I expect that to make that kind of progress however is Kojima. It's Metal Gear Solid. The man made MGS4. Standards? That game went in the opposite direction of progress.
Gunslinger
Member
Mgs never had good story lol. Part 3 had a decent story and part 4 was a mess.
Corpsepyre
Banned
Even if the story or storytelling felt disappointing in the end, it still ended up being better than the majority of the games we end up getting. Not saying that it's something acceptable, but it's just how I see it as. MGS V painted a differently told, yet equally compelling story, atleast in my opinion. Sucks that it was never finished, but we'll have to take that pill.
Always-honest
Banned
Mn, good for me. I never invested much time in the storyline. I only played MGS4 and i played a couple of ours of MGS2. MGSV is also one of the best games i ever played.
Gunslinger
Member
This post I agree with.
It was memorable and meaty. Games are more than the sum of their parts and some parts hold more value than others to certain people. This is true in light of the precedent set by other games in the series.
This is why people say it is a good game but a bad MGS game.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
That's not the point. I'm not taking issue with the claim that MGS didn't have a good story. I don't really have an opinion regarding that given my limited exposure to the series.
My issue is first that if you believe Kojima is a mediocre writer, that doesn't mean we shouldn't hold him to a higher standard and just accept whatever he craps out. And second the whole "If you are so concerned about story in games, go watch a movie or read a book"mentality needs to go die in a fire.
It's secondly only to "Well lets see you do better at [blank]" in self defeating bullshit arguments.
I love and appreciate MGSV for a bunch of reasons that others might disagree with, but I definitely don't understand how it reviewed so well, because there is a lot of context needed to start to enjoy the story aspects of the game and I feel like as much as I like it, I couldn't imagine many reviewers getting the time and or understanding to properly justify their 10/10 scores.
Totally. Imagine people saying that about movies. If you're so concerned about good stories in Film go read a Book.
Gunslinger
Member
Gameplay should never come second to story. Every dev should focus on gameplay first imo. Upon getting that perfect they can spend time on story imo. Gameplay is and will be king when it comes to making good video game imo. Last of us is a good example of game with very tight gameplay with a good story.
Serpens007
Member
You know why mgs4 was that trainwreck? People didnt like MGS2 plot, even if its the most deep of the franchise and a progress in gaming storytelling.
Despite that critical acclaim, is the most hated game. It feels like a deja vu.
Part of it has to come from the echo chamber that review event was. Also I think there's a lot of press that isn't as invested in the franchise as the average fan, so they find it easier to divorce themselves from series expectations and from what we were led to believe in the marketing.
This whole review process has been fascinating, especially contrasting opinions from old school metal gear fans who have completed the game. I'm many hours in but only at mission 17, so no idea how my opinion will change by the end. Just been doing side ops and building mother base up for hours.
Be interesting to compare 5+ years down the line with lttp and rttp threads how people feel after things have cooled off. And also if we ever get more info on how much Konami did in fact force Kojima to cut out, or if he went so ridiculously over budget that they had no choice, or whatever actually happened. Although I guess we may never find out the truth.
Be interesting to compare 5+ years down the line with lttp and rttp threads how people feel after things have cooled off. And also if we ever get more info on how much Konami did in fact force Kojima to cut out, or if he went so ridiculously over budget that they had no choice, or whatever actually happened. Although I guess we may never find out the truth.
While I don't have the same level of disappointment with the game, he definitely makes good points in a far more focused/thought out way than most people. The comparison to Hitman is spot on to how I spent hours messing with the a.i. routes. The final line about wondering what was intentional vs what what occurred through circumstance is the question I want answered the most.
Primethius
Banned
That's not the way I see it.
Here's my way of looking at the series. I think the MGS series has terrible stories but more importantly, the way the story is told in each game is just the worst. The biggest offender of this is MGS4 which probably had more cutscene time then gameplay time for me. Prior to V, my favorite MGS game was 3 because it's narrative functioned the best isolated from the ridiculous, convoluted overarching plot strings that exist throughout the series (though even then, 3 had plenty of that).
So, in a way, yes I'm judging Kojima by a higher standard. He gave me exactly what I wanted after 5 MGS games. An MGS game without the nonsense, awful story and writing incessantly bugging me every so often and taking me out of the gameplay.
Is the story still there? Sure. But in significantly less dosage. Less is more for me. And in this instance, the less the story plagues the game, the better the game is.
Incidentally, TheGamingBrit, the guy who made those really good videos on DMC, tweeted something similar himself a while back ago where he felt like he appreciated MGS4 more and that MGSV as a game disappointed him even more than Metroid Other M did (which he's infamous for making two videos ripping into)
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I mean if you believe the story is that atrocious in other MGS games, sure fine. I understand your point of view.
I personally didn't want to sit there for hugely extended cutscenes either. But the end result for me was the same. What story and characterization was there felt incoherent and lacking, and felt just as distracting as if there had been more of it story.
Primethius
Banned
I think we're on the same page. But follow this train of thought for a moment. My biggest issue with MGSV's story is the lack of a proper ending but otherwise, it was on the same level as prior MGS games. Chapters 1 through 31 were mostly serviceable.
But prior games put far too much of an emphasis on shoddy story telling techniques and interrupting the gameplay with incessant codec calls telling me god knows what.
Any reduction of that in favor of more gameplay is a marked improvement for the series. I'm not arguing that the story isn't awful. I definitely is. Everytime Codetalker opened his mouth, I had horrible memories of MGS4 coming right back. But it's been awful throughout the series. It's just less awful now because there's less of it. And it interrupts you less.
That how you end up with a shitty story. You cant just add a story in later and have it be good.
There isn't less of it, there's just less of it placed in front of the player.
And you can't separate the story from how it's presented; telling 10 hours worth of story over the course of 40 hours is not a good way to do it. That causes pacing problems, and a muddy progression to the plot, that makes it less satisfying that it would have otherwise been.
V's a good game, it really is. There's a lot of extremely, extremely disappointing aspects about the story and some of the framework of the game, but 90% of what you do is pretty great.
We give a lot of open world games a pass on their stories, but I think we have hangups on this one because it's Metal Gear. Yeah, it's disappointing and I could talk for days about how incomplete the game is, But I'd be hypocritical if I said I really enjoyed big dumb sandbox games like Just Cause and didn't like Metal Gear due to it's stupid story.
We give a lot of open world games a pass on their stories, but I think we have hangups on this one because it's Metal Gear. Yeah, it's disappointing and I could talk for days about how incomplete the game is, But I'd be hypocritical if I said I really enjoyed big dumb sandbox games like Just Cause and didn't like Metal Gear due to it's stupid story.