Support NeoGAF

[corrosivefrost]

Interesting comment I encountered on Gamespot, a mainstream, non-FGC site:

For those thinking that including the World Warriors in every single game is good for "casual, widespread appeal"...the opposite could be also true.

Obviously, to us, SF5 and SF4 are like night and day. But, to the mainstream audience...?

If every game's roster looks too dang similar, you'll start to get diminishing returns in terms of casual appeal.

Depends. That's not always the case. If you don't have enough of the popular characters returning in a sequel, casuals who thought the last game was fun to play occasionally will be upset their favorite characters aren't anywhere to be found.

Speaking of new characters (to me), I was disappointed to hear Max say "Karin plays entirely like a new character, there's no command grab or counter".

When I said earlier in one of these threads that SFV should have a character with a "catch" reversal like Paul/Jun/Jin/etc. in Tekken 3, I was told about Karin and my interest rose... but apparently they saw fit to remove those traits from her in this game, much to my dismay.

There are still people who think this looks exactly like sfiv and I can live with them not buying the game

Mika Karin birdie are all "new" to someone lol

MIka, Karin, Birdie, and Nash are all new to me... I've never really played a Street Fighter/Capcom Fighter with them as selectable/playable characters.

 

[Tizoc]

Yeah I'm kinda bummed with the major change they made to Karin, interestingly enough, all characters that were in SFA got major changes in SF5 in one form or another.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Interesting comment I encountered on Gamespot, a mainstream, non-FGC site:

For those thinking that including the World Warriors in every single game is good for "casual, widespread appeal"...the opposite could be also true.

Obviously, to us, SF5 and SF4 are like night and day. But, to the mainstream audience...?

If every game's roster looks too dang similar, you'll start to get diminishing returns in terms of casual appeal.

Those people exist for everything, and really aren't indicative of the majority I would think. It's equivalent to someone saying "why should I pay for Halo 5 when Halo 1 has MC in it too?"

 

[direct_quote]

Those people exist for everything, and really aren't indicative of the majority I would think. It's equivalent to someone saying "why should I pay for Halo 5 when Halo 1 has MC in it too?"

The "i'll wait for the ultra super hyper version" people...

 

[pizzacat]

The "i'll wait for the ultra super hyper version" people...

And then they don't even buy it smh

 

[Vice]

The "i'll wait for the ultra super hyper version" people...

"I'll wait five years and get the whole game, unlike those suckers who buy it day one."
then
"Why is everyone online so good? I just bought the Street Fighter V year four bundle pack on Steam and I keep getting bodied. Where are all the beginners? I'll try again with Street Fighter VI."

 

[Mizerman]

"I'll wait five years and get the whole game, unlike those suckers who buy it day one."
then
"Why is everyone online so good? I just bought the Street Fighter V year four bundle pack on Steam and I keep getting bodied. Where are all the beginners? I'll try again with Street Fighter VI."

"Street Fighter VI? Man, it has the same characters from before. Yawn. I'll just wait for Super Ultra Hyper Street Fighter VI Remix, you sheep."

 

[PadWarrior]

Hmm.. wonder why we haven't got a movelist card posted for Zangief yet.

 

[Zubz]

He's got a lot of interesting details that add a lot to his character (like how he sometimes stomps a KO'd opponent or sheds a tear over them). I think we get the gist is that he's being controlled by someone/something as he has a lot of anguish over his actions and probably any additional detail given about his origins would just take away from him.

That's a good summation of Q, honestly. I love his defensive playstyle, so I think he'd still be great to keep around even if/after his mystery is solved. Plus, he genuinely is interesting; he towers over the rest of the cast, and his movements are just... off. Like, some of them are robotic, but some are human, and some are just between the two. So he's got a great design.

But honestly, the reason he's as popular as he is owes to the fact that he just showed up in 3S without much explanation. He brought a lot of questions with him, and none of them seemed close to being answered. People want to see more of him, but outside of a cameo in Capcom Fighting Evolution, he's only been in incarnations of SFIII. He'd still be popular if we knew more about him, but part of what makes him great is that we just know so little.

Sodom would fit into sfv pretty well. From a design stand point he'd be a shoe in both visually and gameplay wise. Plus no FF characters yet.

I mean, I wouldn't say a "shoo-in," but he'd definitely fit in. I just think that, at this point, Haggar should be the first Final Fight character. Yes, I am thirsty.

 

[GorillaJu]

Capcom has straight up said that the polls play a role in roster selection, so it's not people overstating anything. It's people quoting Capcom.

Why do you think they even administered the poll at all? Of course they're using it to make roster decisions. Will they follow the polls 100%? Of course not. But, they're still using the data.



Retsu, Joe, Mike, Lee, and Geki have been out longer than Karin. WHERE DEY AT?

They'll use the data, but I didn't say they don't. I said they mean very little, especially without the right context. As for the SF1 characters, give me a break and use some common sense

 

[Gr1mLock]

That's a good summation of Q, honestly. I love his defensive playstyle, so I think he'd still be great to keep around even if/after his mystery is solved. Plus, he genuinely is interesting; he towers over the rest of the cast, and his movements are just... off. Like, some of them are robotic, but some are human, and some are just between the two. So he's got a great design.

But honestly, the reason he's as popular as he is owes to the fact that he just showed up in 3S without much explanation. He brought a lot of questions with him, and none of them seemed close to being answered. People want to see more of him, but outside of a cameo in Capcom Fighting Evolution, he's only been in incarnations of SFIII. He'd still be popular if we knew more about him, but part of what makes him great is that we just know so little.



I mean, I wouldn't say a "shoo-in," but he'd definitely fit in. I just think that, at this point, Haggar should be the first Final Fight character. Yes, I am thirsty.

Auto correct =/. Also I wouldn't mind haggar but he was in UMVC3 already. Sodom hasn't been seen since what, 96? I'm not even that big of a fan, I just think he has a more interesting gameplay design.

 

[KidA Seven]

Capcom's bulk of character releases and balance updates should definitely occur during the first half of the year so the players don't have to keep adapting to new characters and game engines changes leading up to the big events.

We'll have a rush of character announcements early next year, maybe even before the game is out. My guess, it starts with a Third Strike pack two months after release, featuring Urien, Alex, Oro, and Q.



3S, Final Fight, SF4, SF2, new characters and crossover packs.

The future is exciting.

Balance patch 2-3 months is wayyy to frequent

Matt said that when it comes to balance updates they will take into account the Pro Tour. So they don't want to release an update right before EVO or Capcom Cup. Not sure if that will affect the release of characters.

http://venturebeat.com/2015/09/29/how-esports-are-driving-the-evolution-of-street-fighter-and-the-capcom-cup/

 

[Gunslinger]

I really hope they don't patch it frequently. Once every 6 months is ok. But not like Mk please. Frequent patching kind of killing MKX.

 

[Spman2099]

I really hope they don't patch it frequently. Once every 6 months is ok. But not like Mk please. Frequent patching kind of killing MKX.

I agree. They could maybe make the first, very minimalist, balance patch come a little sooner (like three months or so) just because you know there is going to be some absurd nonsense that slips through the cracks. However, after the initial tweak, they should make sure to give the game time to breathe a little.

 

[Skilletor]

I really hope they don't patch it frequently. Once every 6 months is ok. But not like Mk please. Frequent patching kind of killing MKX.

Combofiend's answer to this at EVO was great. He said that with frequent patches, people never really learn to play. They'd like to give people the chance to discover how to get around something that's "broken" rather than take it out immediately. They all seemed to be aware that the NRS method wasn't good for the competitive community.

 

[Spman2099]

Combofiend's answer to this at EVO was great. He said that with frequent patches, people never really learn to play. They'd like to give people the chance to discover how to get around something that's "broken" rather than take it out immediately. They all seemed to be aware that the NRS method wasn't good for the competitive community.

That is great news!

 

[Filth]

Speaking of Q does anyone remember the interview when they said q's identity was someone from the sf cast. Speculationnnnnnnnn?!?!?! He's blanka domesticated.

 

[Gunslinger]

Combofiend's answer to this at EVO was great. He said that with frequent patches, people never really learn to play. They'd like to give people the chance to discover how to get around something that's "broken" rather than take it out immediately. They all seemed to be aware that the NRS method wasn't good for the competitive community.

I like combofiends answer. When MvC2 first came out iceman was super OP until people found out the counter to him and look at him now. No one even uses him anymore.

 

[SephLuis]

Combofiend's answer to this at EVO was great. He said that with frequent patches, people never really learn to play. They'd like to give people the chance to discover how to get around something that's "broken" rather than take it out immediately. They all seemed to be aware that the NRS method wasn't good for the competitive community.

Great. I think the only way they do a patch outside of half/ear/yearly patch is that if something beyond broken shows up and it needs fixing ASAP. Outside of that, get gud people.

 

[zedreamcast]

Combofiend's answer to this at EVO was great. He said that with frequent patches, people never really learn to play. They'd like to give people the chance to discover how to get around something that's "broken" rather than take it out immediately. They all seemed to be aware that the NRS method wasn't good for the competitive community.

So what you're saying is that every patch note entry will just say
"Git Gud."

 

[Inuhanyou]

I hope we get an adult version of her. I love her playstyle but Im a bit tired of her schoolgirl uniform even when she is supposed to be 20+.

Some people think Sakura being 23 in a shcool girl outfit is endearing, some people like something some don't like something.

We already have an adult version of her, its just a matter of seeing it officially in game

 

[TheSpoiler]

Speaking of Q does anyone remember the interview when they said q's identity was someone from the sf cast. Speculationnnnnnnnn?!?!?! He's blanka domesticated.

Sadly, Q was made with the intent that nobody on the Capcom team knew his identity. So anything said now is hearsay.

 

[Tizoc]

She got people lifted feeling so shifted.

Yo what's that from

 

[vg260]

I really hope they don't patch it frequently. Once every 6 months is ok. But not like Mk please. Frequent patching kind of killing MKX.

It will be fine. The complaining about MKX is unwarranted, and if MKX is being killed it's by people who don't understand the different situation of WB's games. NR has to patch early while they can still support the game before WB makes NR shift development onto Injustice 2. MK9 and Injustice only had finite support and it completely stopped after a certain point. NR games don't get built upon like SF and have much shorter windows for support with WB/NR releasing a new fighter every 2 years.

 

[Mizerman]

Yo what's that from

I think that's from the episodes of the Vita version of SFxT.

 

[The Lone Dragon]

give me a break and use some common sense

You said:

Karin is maybe the one exception, but she was always gonna come soon as she hadn't been in one since sfa3, so it's more coincidence than cause and effect

You implied that Karin was only put in the game because she hasn't been playable for a while. I provided examples of other characters who haven't been playable in a SF game for a while.

Why is it that Karin was put in the game before any of them? "Coincidence" like you suggest?

Of course not. She was put in because he's way more popular than any of them, as the polls clearly showed.

I said they mean very little, especially without the right context.

And, Capcom says they mean a lot. Who should we believe? The ones making the game and creating the roster? Or you?

So far, every returning character in the game is relatively popular character, except Birdie, whom they openly admitted was an intentional outlier, meant to surprise folks. So, in a way, even Birdie's inclusion was based on the poll results. So, what evidence do YOU have that the polls mean very little?

 

[KidA Seven]

It will be fine. The complaining about MKX is unwarranted, and if MKX is being killed it's by people who don't understand the different situation of WB's games. NR has to patch early while they can still support the game before WB makes NR shift development onto Injustice 2. MK9 and Injustice only had finite support and it completely stopped after a certain point. NR games don't get built upon like SF and have much shorter windows for support with WB/NR releasing a new fighter every 2 years.

Having shorter windows for support doesn't mean they need to patch as frequently as they do.

 

[TheOGB]

Yo what's that from

SFxT Episode 2 (she's near the end)

 

[Flowmoney]

Speaking of Q does anyone remember the interview when they said q's identity was someone from the sf cast. Speculationnnnnnnnn?!?!?! He's blanka domesticated.

Q has been Dan all along. It's all starting to make sense now.

 

[The Lone Dragon]

And the last sentence is not true because of SF3

My last sentence was "If every game's roster looks too dang similar, you'll start to get diminishing returns in terms of casual appeal."

How does SF3 prove this wrong?

Keep in mind that after SF3NG came out, SFA3, CvS, and CvS2 all came out. All three of those games were filled with World Warriors. Did those games sell like SF2? Nope. Did they make SF huge again? Nope. Did they magically stop Capcom from leaving the fighting game business for 7 years? Nope.

By that time people were burned out from too many SF games, many of which had the same dang characters in them.

There was nothing SF3 could have done to reverse the damage that had already been done. Even if SF3 had the entire SF2 cast, it would have changed nothing.

 

[Greenzxy]

Yo what's that from

Juri SFV reveal trailer.

 

[kirblar]

We've had the dreamcast sales charts linked before- SF3 sold miniscule amounts relative to other Capcom fighting titles on the console. It wasn't just "everything going down" - things weren't great, but SF3 was really, really bad, even relative to the others. Taking the lesson of "don't replace the majority of the cast on the initial roster" isn't a bad lesson to take away from it.

 

[TheOGB]

Q has been Dan all along. It's all starting to make sense now.

Q is actually

Spoiler

what remains of Joe and Mike from SF1. The Illuminati had experience grafting people together and reviving them with Nash.

 

[Scrub Mcgrubb]

We've had the dreamcast sales charts linked before- SF3 sold miniscule amounts relative to other Capcom fighting titles on the console. It wasn't just "everything going down" - things weren't great, but SF3 was really, really bad, even relative to the others. Taking the lesson of "don't replace the majority of the cast on the initial roster" isn't a bad lesson to take away from it.

It didn't help that the DC version was the first home port, 3 years after SF3 had been in arcades only- in a time when most local arcades were closing. That port also had to compete against new releases like Marvel vs Capcom 2 and Capcom vs SNK.

 

[Spman2099]

It didn't help that the DC version was the first home port, 3 years after SF3 had been in arcades only- in a time when most local arcades were closing. That port also had to compete against new releases like Marvel vs Capcom 2 and Capcom vs SNK.

To be fair, a lot of places had lost their arcades long ago at that point. So, Street Fighter 3 was essentially seen as a brand new game for a lot of people. People I know chose Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 and Capcom Vs. SNK over Third Strike. They did so not because Third Strike was considered old, but because a lot of people were turned off by the roster. I know I was when I was younger.

Though that is obviously very anecdotal. So maybe it was a completely different situation everywhere else.

 

[Skilletor]

Oh nice, we're in the "3s characters are/are not popular and why it sold what it did" portion of the thread now.

 

[Crocodile]

"It looks just like SF IV!" were words I 100% saw here on GAF and elsewhere online following the reveal. It's nonsense but a lot of people, a lot of potential customers, do think that way. I do think there is a balance to be struck between changing things up (that includes the roster) on a macroscopic (i.e. immediately obvious to casuals) level and keeping things consistent to avoid alienation. Did Capcom find the right balance with SFV? I think we'll see in the upcoming months.

Those people exist for everything, and really aren't indicative of the majority I would think. It's equivalent to someone saying "why should I pay for Halo 5 when Halo 1 has MC in it too?"

I get what you're trying to say but this comparison is terrible. Characters are the heart and soul of a fighting game. The same isn't true for a FPS.

I like Combofiends answer. When MvC2 first came out iceman was super OP until people found out the counter to him and look at him now. No one even uses him anymore.

To be fair, player mentalities were different back then compared to now. Considering its impossible to get a fighting game perfect on your first try, a game that came out and stayed as unbalanced as MvC2 did in its day would be taken over the coals today. I feel pretty confident MvC3 would have died a quick death if UMvC3 didn't come out to fix its mistakes. SFxT never recovered even after they got the 2013v out (Pay-to-WIn Gems and TONS of on disk DLC didn't help either). Threading the line between updating too often and not often enough is tricky.

We've had the dreamcast sales charts linked before- SF3 sold miniscule amounts relative to other Capcom fighting titles on the console. It wasn't just "everything going down" - things weren't great, but SF3 was really, really bad, even relative to the others. Taking the lesson of "don't replace the majority of the cast on the initial roster" isn't a bad lesson to take away from it.

There are so many interwoven and connected variables that influenced SF3's lack of success that I feel its hard to say how much was due to the roster and how muchwas due to 35351353 different things or how influential each was. I don't think you'll ever get an objective answer - as such the debate rages on.

Oh nice, we're in the "3s characters are/are not popular and why" portion of the thread now.

To be fair, there are so many worse things we could be talking about

 

[Spman2099]

Oh nice, we're in the "3s characters are/are not popular and why it sold what it did" portion of the thread now.

I don't think it is a matter of them being flat out unpopular, I think it is more nuanced than that. It was just a shock to the system to have SO FEW returning characters.

Personally, I was hoping that we would get as many Third Strike characters as possible with few of The World Warriors. Still, you do have to leave some familiar faces. Street Fighter Three is interesting because it was such an extreme.

If it makes you feel better, all of this will be washed away when legitimate news is released. Then you can get back to the part of the discussion that you like.

 

[Gr1mLock]

Oh nice, we're in the "3s characters are/are not popular and why it sold what it did" portion of the thread now.

I think there's a direct correlation between the skill gap from casual to intermediate in 3s to how many people claim it wasn't popular.

 

[Skilletor]

I don't think it is a matter of them being flat out unpopular, I think it is more nuanced than that. It was just a shock to the system to have SO FEW returning characters.

Personally, I was hoping that we would get as many Third Strike characters as possible with few of The World Warriors. Still, you do have to leave some familiar faces. Street Fighter Three is interesting because it was such an extreme.

Oh no, don't draw me into this whirlpool of madness!

 

[Mizerman]

Oh no, don't draw me into this whirlpool of madness!

To be fair, you're already in the madness by posting here.

Albeit a form of controlled madness.^_^

 

[Village]

 

[Clawww]

Lol

 

[Skilletor]

I never realized how menacing he looked. Dope.

 

[Spman2099]

I never realized how menacing he looked. Dope.

He looks so awesome in Alpha 3... I hope when he makes it (because I believe) he will look closer to his Alpha 3 form.

 

[Mizerman]

Pursuing you with that apathetic look on his face.

 

[Inuhanyou]

She's gonna double team with her dog i bet

 

[Aditya]

His v-trigger is just him breaking his handcuffs and going supersaiyan

 

[Spman2099]

His v-trigger is just him breaking his handcuffs and going supersaiyan

For the love of God, keep that awful goddamn anime out of my Street Fighter.

*looks at Necalli*

Okay, okay. From now on keep your damn...

*Sees Rashid's scouter*

...

Well, crap.

 

[Marvel]

Dat HHH nose.