Otaku USA: As Geek Culture Assimilates, Otaku Remain Outcasts
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MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
By streaming sites I don't mean the legal ones.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
It's not about production or profit. Perception is key:
http://www.sakuramedia.com/
That's a store in Metrotown (mall in British Columbia, one of the bigger or more visited ones). I don't know how many people here live in the area but that store is half creepy territory: sexy loli pillows with lots of pervy manga and movies then you see Princess Mononoke then you see more creepy stuff. I've been in once and there were people who were giggling and laughing at lots of the merchandise. FanExpo comes to Vancouver once a year and the biggest anime section has waifu pillows along the wall. You don't see this at comic book stores or video game stores. Welcome to reality, people find it creepy.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
is this the thread where we post moe moe girl waifus
Emperor_Uriel
Member
True. And yet the success of anime shows that material is heavily desired here. It's why something like Avatar can come around with it's mature storyline and people go crazy over it like it's never been done before.
No doubt there's a sizeable market for shows that have all of the deep plotlines and engrossing characters without the "weird Japanese stuff" (ignorant, but that's how it's perceived!) that turns off casual viewers.
I've written scripts for entire seasons of original shows just as a hobby that would fit the animated mold perfectly, but I don't live in California so it probably ain't happening. It's weird to sit on so many ideas while the industry shrinks and stagnates.
perfectchaos007
Member
Its funny this thread came up today, because I was sitting in traffic today when I started wondering how many years away are we from the Otaku fighting for their waifu pillow's civil rights? While sitting in traffic I envisioned an indignated man pleeding with the police that his waifu pillow, which was fastened securely in the passenger seat, counted as a second person for the HOV lane. And that moment kickstarted this big civil rights movement for waifu pillows.
I apparently ponder weird scenarios in traffic and thought I would share.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
No, I think you have to go to GAF-chan for that.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
My friends give me a ton of shit for liking wrestling and anime but I don't really give a fuck whether they like it or not. I don't know, stop giving so much of a fuck what other people think I guess.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Medical Drama, actually. Current version of a 40+ year old series made by the Astro Boy author.
For those few saying that Hollywood is the answer, it's kind of in the air if it is or not. Speed Racer had effort behind it, as did Dragonball: Evolution. Both were middling, sales and critically (Not just with fanboys). All You Need Is Kill got reconfigured and rebranded to suit western tastes and it plummeted. Akira's been in development hell, as has Ghost in the shell. It's possible that a live action Hollywood adaptation could change perceptive on the industry, but studios have seen the results.
All my other opinions were said already, so I don't really have any more to add to the topic.
Ohmygoditsjrod
Banned
Oh god so much this. Why does something have to be accepted or assimilated? Honestly though when I think of cons and the "accepted" geekdom it seems like it's all Blizzard, Valve, Bethesda and LoL.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I think that's missing the point of the article. I like what I like, true enough. But the article is asking why it hasn't been accepted en masse like games or nerd shit movies.
I don't know how much the success of a movie would translate to the production committees in Japan and anime itself, though. Kind of like comic book movies and the actual comic books.
Did Dragonball Evolution really have effort behind it? Seemed to be me like a relatively low budget low effort attempt, with not much in the way of effects or talent.
I just find it weird when people go out of their way to consume specifically Japanese things. Like, "Oh, you just happen to randomly only watch anime and play Japanese imports? You say you're learning Japanese and planning to move there to write manga since it their culture is so much more superior to the West? Oh."
all things in moderation
all things in moderation
WickedLaharl
Member
There's examples of good anime/manga -> live-action, I would say Death Note's transition into a movie series and now a drama on Japanese television were successful attempts at it, while Attack on Titan is on the opposite end of that. Other good examples of the anime/manga -> live-action transition would be Great Teacher Onizuka, which has had a few dramas made out of it, and another I'd pick is a manga I'm not sure many know of called Ushijima the Loan Shark, which was turned into a drama, and it received 2 seasons and a movie. I'm sure there's more examples as well. Edge of Tomorrow is also an example of something Japanese being taken by an American studio (All You Need is Kill) and being successfully adapted while making changes. (I don't personally like the changes made to the ending, since it makes it a typical happy ending) but it's not a bad film nor is it the worst example of that happening. (since Dragonball Evolution exists)
I just don't think the typical shonen manga fare like Attack on Titan are suitable to be adapted into live-action due to the budget and changes needing to be made. I think it absolutely would have been a better adaptation if adapted by Hollywood instead of the Japanese film industry, as they could give the casting diversity (much easier to get the racial diversity in the US than it is in Japan) and have a bigger budget and not bad CG. Mikasa would probably still be turned into a love interest but it wouldn't be another thing piled on top of everything else already bad about the movie.
I think the issue with using Berserk as an example is that Miura is highly inconsistent with his work output, he takes extremely long breaks and goes months without releasing a chapter, so you can't really compare it to something like Jojo's Bizarre Adventure or Hajime no Ippo which have been going since around the same time as Berserk.
Ippo is at 1110 chapters since it started in 1990, and has seen a fairly consistent release schedule. Hell, the author just released a 6 page chapter before going on break to show the result of a fight instead of going on a hiatus without releasing a chapter until he could finish it due to his health issues.
Jojo's is at 889 chapters total since 1996, with the longest break being in Steel Ball Run (part 7) when it transitioned from a weekly manga to a monthly manga. Araki has also completed 7 total storylines, each one usually focusing on a set of entirely new characters while typically having some ties to the previous part. Example: In Part 3, Jotaro is considered the main character but in Part 4 (which has an upcoming anime adaptation) he becomes a supporting character.
To compare it, Berserk hasn't seen a volume release (which consists of 9 chapters for Berserk) since March 2013. It's also now not focusing on the characters people want to know what happened to (Guts and crew) and is focusing on another set of characters entirely. Which, wouldn't feel as much a slap in the face if it hadn't been over 2 and a half years since we last saw Guts.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Because all of the other "geek stuff" was always popular we just suddenly landed on a narrative that its magically popular right now
Ohmygoditsjrod
Banned
But the thread has turned into another shooting on anime thread.
Honestly AX won't be talked about like Comic Con because anime doesn't have house hold names. Every one likes to drop Cowboy Bebop in these threads about how to get anime accepted but I doubt anyone knows. Even before the super hero movie boom you could go anywhere and Say Spiderman and people would know who you were talking about.
And I'm fine with that
AnathemicOne
Banned
Eh I think you can apply this broad of a stroke to any fandom really.
In-jokes are lame as fuck
Well I just don't agree with that, especially when it leads to things like what happened in this thread. It's very comical.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
In-jokes are lame as fuck
Not everyone can reach NFL-GAF level. But they'll try!
Messofanego
Banned
Then you get many things that just confirm the stereotype of anime fans being socially inept, unemployed, low self-esteem losers who can't deal with reality.
PR game for otaku is weak as fuck. Don't ever hear any positive stories, so easier to laugh at the weirdos.
PR game for otaku is weak as fuck. Don't ever hear any positive stories, so easier to laugh at the weirdos.
You're probably right, but I think the otaku/weeaboo fandom is flat out weird. To me, they're basically saying "We like X because it's from Japan," and not, "I like other things in X category, so maybe I'll like Y."
I mean, it just weirds me out that someone is like, "Man, I really enjoyed watching DBZ. I should go download 50 K/Jpop albums, because Asia."
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
In-jokes are lame as fuck
this thread has made the joke soooooo damn worth it.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
In-jokes are lame as fuck
As lame as meme pictures are.
Then you get many things that just confirm the stereotype of anime fans being socially inept, unemployed, low self-esteem losers who can't deal with reality.
PR game for otaku is weak as fuck. Don't ever hear any positive stories, so easier to laugh at the weirdos.
Hey! I have a job.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
omg lol
the in-joke defense brigade :>
the in-joke defense brigade :>
Mainstream culture in the US is achieved with live action movies and TV, not cartoons and comics.
US comics broke out because of big movies and TV shows, not the comics and cartoons themselves.
When there is a lack of Asian representation and whitewashing going on, Japanese stuff will never catch on without being fundamentally different/unrecognizable.
US comics broke out because of big movies and TV shows, not the comics and cartoons themselves.
When there is a lack of Asian representation and whitewashing going on, Japanese stuff will never catch on without being fundamentally different/unrecognizable.
sneakydomo
Banned
Then you get many things that just confirm the stereotype of anime fans being socially inept, unemployed, low self-esteem losers who can't deal with reality.
PR game for otaku is weak as fuck. Don't ever hear any positive stories, so easier to laugh at the weirdos.
So has this thread turned into video game nerds, who most of society think are fucking losers, shitting on anime nerds as bigger losers? Interesting.
:jnc took America by storm. We made it.
I wouldn't say anime has "better animation quality" for 2D unless we're talking about big budget films.
And the U.S. gave up on 2D? Broadcasters are getting back into 2D animation. Disney is getting back into it for TV, Nickelodeon is as well, Cartoon Network has plenty of 2D juggernaut series as well.
Funnily enough, Berserk just completed a full new volume a month ago so it's only a matter of time until it's officially released. Miura is back to a monthly schedule for now but who knows how long that will actually last. I'm hoping enough that we at least get another full volume before he decides to take his eventual 2 year break.
NeoGAF is a very special place.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
In-jokes are lame as fuck
What is a WickedLaharl? Sounds anime.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Then you get many things that just confirm the stereotype of anime fans being socially inept, unemployed, low self-esteem losers who can't deal with reality.
PR game for otaku is weak as fuck. Don't ever hear any positive stories, so easier to laugh at the weirdos.
The irony of saying this on a videogame forum
It could definitely be a wake-up call. If, I don't know, a Cowboy Bebop adaptation reached $500 million or even $1 Billion, they'd stand up and notice. They're fascinated with our culture as much as we are with them. If something made by Hollywood combined with something that Japan had an affinity with, you'd see a great reaction. Frozen's success in Japan (they probably see the folk tale of the Snow Woman in it somewhere) is invective of this.
The choice was between that and Astro Boy. I wanted to focus on live action.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Age, I think, is a big factor.
By the time Lord of the Rings and Spider-Man happened, the franchises had been around literally for around 40 years. Anime as something reasonably mainstream as a broader concept (as opposed to isolated cases like Speed Racer or Astro Boy) is still relatively new.
I think what you're looking for is both folks working on the movies who have some familiarity with anime from growing up with them (so right now that would mostly be folks in their late 20s/early 30s; there are certainly people in that age group working Hollywood, but a lot of the bigger names are well above that) as well as key decision makers at studios having some familiarity with the series to understand why it might be a good business venture.
When Lord of the Rings was getting made it was both very old and very well known. Selling a Hollywood Studio executive on spending $200 million to make a One Piece film today would probably be a pretty difficult thing to pull off when they have probably never heard of the series (and most of the folks who a studio might trust with such a budget are probably out of the age range of anyone who is likely to have a familiarity with the series).
I think that in 10-20 years you probably will start to see more anime/manga films being made as these demographics change some. And much like the escalating successes of Blade (minor success, but profitable), X-Men (relatively good performance) and finally Spider-Man (massive blockbuster) lead to a massive increase in comic book movies, it will only take a few movies for more studios to start to say "hmm, maybe these anime films could make us some money".
As you say, there will always be push-back. I think that as long as the movie was at least somewhat good and somewhat accurate, you would get enough of the community interested. There will certainly always be outspoken critics (although many of them will watch anyway just to see, just as many of the Star Trek fans who were loud still watched the movie and then went online to complain), but there will also be a lot of people who will like it.
And you're selling the movie not just to the die hard fans with thousands of posts on message boards and visiting dedicated fan sites, but even more so to the much larger casual fanbase, who will see a movie based on Attack on Titan or Inuyasha or something and be interested because they have good memories of watching the show dubbed on television.
Anime has vastly better 2D animation quality especially for TV. Like not even in the same ballpark.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Then you get many things that just confirm the stereotype of anime fans being socially inept, unemployed, low self-esteem losers who can't deal with reality.
PR game for otaku is weak as fuck. Don't ever hear any positive stories, so easier to laugh at the weirdos.
You're in a videogame forum, you know?
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Josh Freeman's love for Taco Bell transcends all.
Pecking order
Most anime decidedly hasn't. Especially not on TV. A single episide of modern american cartoons probably has a higher budget than half a season of TV anime.
Animation is garbage in lots of US cartoons nowadays though
charlequin
Banned
I think the fact that an outsider to the thread described the OP as offputting and you guys all collectively responded that they'd missed the point of how hilarious it was that the OP was purposely made as terrible and unfriendly as possible -- without, at least obviously to me, any trace of irony -- says pretty much everything that needs to be said about why anime isn't respected by the people who are elevating the profile of general-purpose geek culture.
And Cyan is much nicer about this, so I'm gonna be the heavy here: I'm less than pleased to find out a major thread like this has an idiotic in-group joke OP at the expense of anyone else who happens to wander in. If your thread isn't welcoming to new users it's worthless to us, and we have no interest in letting people keep around purposely insular little clubs that masquerade as legitimate community threads.
Then you get many things that just confirm the stereotype of anime fans being socially inept, unemployed, low self-esteem losers who can't deal with reality.
PR game for otaku is weak as fuck. Don't ever hear any positive stories, so easier to laugh at the weirdos.
This is gold coming from someone that has over 31,000 posts in a video game forum lmao
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Here's where it kind of comes down to just my opinion - a lot of those shows are flat or visually unappealing to me. Steven Universe and Adventure Time I like, but I don't keep up with them on a week to week basis. I just think they lack some of the more nuanced animation qualities in anime but that's just how they are. There aren't really that many visually interesting or creative sequences in those shows. If you look at popular shows like Family Guy or South Park nearly every episode looks the same and is shot in the same perspectives.
AnathemicOne
Banned
I'd agree with your conclusion because it's not far-fetched to see such extreme anime fans saying what you stated. I'd agree, however, one should note that 2D animation in the West, ie cartoons, aren't particularly invested in compared to that of Japan.
To take your example lets say someone likes DBZ alot, what other animations/series are similar to it in the West? Closest I can think of at the top of my head is the Avatar series and that by itself is the exception. Can't find DBZ-similar shows in the West, well gotta look elsewhere, this case in Japan where the DBZ/shounen genre is popular as hell.
So while alot of people say "I only like X thing from Japan" it easily translates to "I only like X thing from Japan because it's where only X-similar things come from."
I will manually upvote this for its succinctness. The threshold for mainstream is a narrow band.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I'm not saying that he missed the joke or some kind of "haha inside joke, outsiders wouldn't understand". I'm mortified that it would be taken seriously.
Don't agree in the slightest, not after a decade of watching it non-stop.
Not the 24fps judder. Not the mouth flaps because vocals are recorded after animating. Not the same old tired streak/smudge/blurring in-between animation for action scenes. Not the replacement of hard to draw things with 3D objects. Not the constant need to basically re-do entire series from scratch for Blu-Ray releases due to botched broadcast versions (looking at you Toei and SHAFT).
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