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[charlequin]

Yeah, plenty of new people have hopped in. I don't really post much about what I watch (since I watch stuff inconsistently and by the time I get around back to the computer whatever thoughts I had about the episode when I watched it aren't really my priority) but I still engage in conversation and will chime in on people asking about things and the like.

IIRC when Stump posted the community thread history statistics in August, he interpreted the numbers as showing a healthy mix of core posters and new posters.

Good to hear that the community as a whole is pretty friendly, then. Maybe next season someone can actually do what we ask community thread OPs to do and lead the thread off with something helpful instead of something sarcastic and in-jokey.

aren't the original posts in most community OTs idiotic in-group jokes.

No.

 

[dity]

Alright, show me something that airs on American TV that looks as good as these three clips.

http://sakuga.yshi.org/data/fad6ba7b01d1c3de3dd5bc71aec07d27.mp4

http://sakuga.yshi.org/data/06450a5fcea7269d3aba464f75388ede.mp4

http://sakuga.yshi.org/data/14594ed59239417445d6e83fabedb3e2.mp4

I'm on mobile with data so I can't right now. I'll have a look later. Meanwhils, tell me what series they're from.

 

[Azuran]

Anime shops and booths at conventions sell these genres. This isn't some niche shit. It's out there and out front.

I wouldn't consider the average anime store to be mainstream in any way seeing they're nice a niche market. Until they start showing up on Walmart, then they're not as mainstream as you say they are.

 

[Jarmel]

I'm on mobile with data so I can't right now. I'll have a look later. Meanwhils, tell me what series they're from.

1.Haikyuu

2.Concrete Revolutio

3.One-Punch Man

 

[Busaiku]

I'm on mobile with data so I can't right now. I'll have a look later. Meanwhils, tell me what series they're from.

Haikyuu, Concrete Revolutio, One Punch Man.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Because it's in a different language, from a different culture.

D&D and M:TG are endemic, American products.

 

[Puruzi]

I'm on mobile with data so I can't right now. I'll have a look later. Meanwhils, tell me what series they're from.

One Punch Man, Haikyuu, and Concrete Revolutio

Not sure on the last one, haven't watched it but it does look like the style.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Anime shops and booths at conventions sell these genres. This isn't some niche shit. It's out there and out front.

Being available doesn't mean that it's popular.

 

[FyreWulff]

This was also a good documentary that explained how the community, on the presentation side, was more concerned with getting themselves over than welcoming people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUYlqLlbix0 pt 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoJ_BWQ9Kow pt 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFu9lh37X34 pt 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8oYz1dP0-k pt 4

 

[KHlover]

Most of the good animation in Korra was done in Japan and Korea. It was done by Studio Pierrot and Mir.

Pls, I thought this was supposed to be about the good animation.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Pls, I thought this was supposed to be about the good animation.

Pierrot does more then Naruto. They do Osumatsu-san airing this season and it looks great.

 

[Jarmel]

Good to hear that the community as a whole is pretty friendly, then. Maybe next season someone can actually do what we ask community thread OPs to do and lead the thread off with something helpful instead of something sarcastic and in-jokey.

How is the OP not helpful? It contains a good amount of the information for the season.

 

[Squishy3]

Anime shops and booths at conventions sell these genres. This isn't some niche shit. It's out there and out front.

It's niche shit that attracts the eye. The problem isn't that it's the majority audience, it's that the audience that likes that stuff will spend their money on that stuff. The money is there, unfortunately, so that's the stuff that will end up front and center. It exists on both ends of the spectrum, too.

Here's an example of the extreme:

That's probably thousands of dollars worth of material.

 

[8 X 11 Printer Paper]

Pls, I thought this was supposed to be about the good animation.

Pierrot can do great animation, it's just usually their work is below average.

 

[KHlover]

Pierrot does more then Naruto. They do Osumatsu-san airing this season and it looks great.

I was talking about Korra. Pierrot was so bad that they brought Mir back mid-season.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Are you not aware that there is an entire genre of porn games?

There's porn every thing.

I have no control over what the people running those shops sell. And it is rather niche, amongst a niche market.

I wouldn't consider the average anime store to be mainstream in any way seeing they're nice a niche market. Until they start showing up on Walmart, then they're not as mainstream as you say they are.

Ah, you've misunderstood when I said mainstream. I should rephrase it: it's one the more seen genres out there. You can say it's niche but if you enter an anime store or a booth and you see some big titted girl in a bikini with that blushed face, you just gotta ask, "how come these are so creepy?" and "would a lot of people hang this on their wall?"

 

[MogCakes]

Anime shops and booths at conventions sell these genres. This isn't some niche shit. It's out there and out front.

Conventions are anything but mainstream. They are the gathering meccas of the niches.

if he said "barely dressed 1000 year old dragons" would you understand?

Maybe if he posted some examples, yeah.

 

[Stumpokapow]

IIRC when Stump posted the community thread history statistics in August, he interpreted the numbers as showing a healthy mix of core posters and new posters.

Heh, I also interpreted it as a good community to present stats to because it has been good moderation-wise for the last long period of time... and then days later...

... Awkward.

How is the OP not helpful? It contains a good amount of the information for the season.

I think mostly we're trying to interpret the fact that Cyan used the content in that thread to represent some of the perception problems anime has... then got told in here it wasn't representative because the thread was a gag... then charlequin said he'd rather it not be a gag... then he got told it was representative of anime as a whole... so it's unclear what the initial response to Cyan was?

 

[Azuran]

This was also a good documentary that explained how the community, on the presentation side, was more concerned with getting themselves over than welcoming people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUYlqLlbix0

Every community has people like that. Look at From Software fans over at Gaming side shitting on people that dare to ask for an "easy" mode. And the who made that commentary is no angel himself considering he also obnoxious when it comes to his own beliefs.

And just to match your anecdotal evidence with some of mine, I've been to plenty of anime conventions and they been some of the most welcoming people I've ever met.

 

[dity]

Haikyuu, Concrete Revolutio, One Punch Man.

Well I've heard/seen two of those, so there's that.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Good to hear that the community as a whole is pretty friendly, then. Maybe next season someone can actually do what we ask community thread OPs to do and lead the thread off with something helpful instead of something sarcastic and in-jokey.

If you've got an idea of what kind of OP you'd like to see, perhaps you can provide an example of one that meets your standards? Ideally one of the past AnimeGAF OPs, just for the most relevance. I think it'd be helpful.

Pierrot does more then Naruto. They do Osumatsu-san airing this season and it looks great.

Osomatsu-san! Is this "Osu" thing some meme I'm not aware of?

 

[Narag]

Heh, I also interpreted it as a good community to present stats to because it has been good moderation-wise for the last long period of time... and then days later...

... Awkward.

That cleanup only served to make it a better community.

 

[Jarmel]

I was talking about Korra. Pierrot was so bad that they brought Mir back mid-season.

Well it was already planned for Mir to be brought back as they had a scheduling conflict. It's not like Pierrot did so bad that Mir was brought on in an emergency. The Pierrot episodes also had some good cuts in them too despite the QUALITY.

 

[firehawk12]

This was also a good documentary that explained how the community, on the presentation side, was more concerned with getting themselves over than welcoming people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUYlqLlbix0 pt 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoJ_BWQ9Kow pt 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFu9lh37X34 pt 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8oYz1dP0-k pt 4

That's totally different though. That's like how piracy groups used to compete and be like "FUCK CORE RAZOR 1911 FTW WE GOT DAY 0 WAREZ". It was competition for competition's sake, so like anything there was inevitably a lot of dick-waving and drama.

Well it was already planned for Mir to be brought back as they had a scheduling conflict. It's not like Pierrot did so bad that Mir was brought on in an emergency. The Pierrot episodes also had some good cuts in them too despite the QUALITY.

Who cares when the writing is garbage though. You could give Pixar a billion dollars to animate Korra S2 and it wouldn't have been better.

 

[Stumpokapow]

That cleanup only served to make it a better community.

I hope so. None of us like to make heavy-handed interventions, so when we do we hope it serves the purpose of offering a better space for discussion going forward.

 

[El Sloth]

Good to hear that the community as a whole is pretty friendly, then. Maybe next season someone can actually do what we ask community thread OPs to do and lead the thread off with something helpful instead of something sarcastic and in-jokey.



No.

Really? I just went over to the OT community and decided to check the first two threads

Android thread - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1104914 bunch of in-jokes

NFL thread - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1141385 half in-jokes

not exactly a rigorous peer-reviewed scientific study, but you can see where I'd get the impression.

 

[Crocodile]

A) dity, I only see you in the Dragon Ball Super threads but not for any other anime so maybe you aren't watching the right stuff? There's no question there are issues with standard anime production schedules and what not that there are still many extremely well animated anime being produced yearly. I'm going to have to agree with Jarmel on this one.

B) Ok was the OP to AnimeGaf super different at some point in the season? Because what I see right now is basically a list of everything airing this season, where to watch them all legally and links to the individual topic threads for shows with their own topics. I'm literally not sure how it could be more helpful. I'll also chime in by saying AnimeGaf is usually very helpful to new posters and always willing to to give advice. As already noted, the statistics also back it being a newbie friendly community. I'm not sure how it got a reputation otherwise.

 

[madp]

BGBW has a peculiar sense of humor and it's possible that some who know him have become so accustomed to it that the possibility that the OP might actually have negative ramifications for newcomers did not even come into consideration. Please take it in good faith from someone who has been involved in the community for years that there is no ill will, intentional misdirection or otherwise insular intent inherent in the OP, and that the community continues to thrive thanks to a continual influx of newcomers.

BGBW's OP is not a troll OP; the emphasis on "moe" anime (if we must use the term for the sake of simplicity) in the OP is a byproduct of the fact that a.) this has been an especially dry season for accessible content and b.) that we have a tradition of allowing the member who makes the seasonal OP to, within reason, customize its content to place the spotlight on what that member is interested in.

Last year, when I created a seasonal OP, I designed it entirely to look like a 90s geocities page dedicated to Sailor Moon.

If the moderation does not believe that this level of OP "customization" is welcoming enough, we would prefer to be given the chance to comply as it is not a terribly difficult concession to make in exchange for our continued existence.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Really? I just went over to the OT community and decided to check the first two threads

Android thread - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1104914 bunch of in-jokes

NFL thread - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1141385 half in-jokes

not exactly a rigorous peer-reviewed scientific study, but you can see where I'd get the impression.

Yeah, I think in jokes are a natural part of a community.

B) Ok was the OP to AnimeGaf super different at some point in the season? Because what I see right now is basically a list of everything airing this season, where to watch them all legally and links to the individual topic threads for shows with their own topics. I'm literally not sure how it could be more helpful. I'll also chime in by saying AnimeGaf is usually very helpful to new posters and always willing to to give advice. As already noted, the statistics also back it being a newbie friendly community. I'm not sure how it got a reputation otherwise.

Yeah BGBW changed it to be more helpful a few weeks ago.

 

[Squishy3]

Ah, you've misunderstood when I said mainstream. I should rephrase it: it's one the more seen genres out there. You can say it's niche but if you enter an anime store or a booth and you see some big titted girl in a bikini with that blushed face, you just gotta ask, "how come these are so creepy?" and "would a lot of people hang this on their wall?"

it just ends up as more visible for whatever reason. on the other end of the spectrum, there's stuff like haikyuu or kuroko, which have many fans that aren't into the whole "pretty boy" love thing but has plenty of people that are and creepy merchandise exists for those male characters but they certainly don't represent everyone and aren't enough of a turn-off for people to not watch those things.

 

[Negator]

How is the OP not helpful? It contains a good amount of the information for the season.

Yeah, I mean, shit. There's a list of season highlights, even if it's in jest, those are the shows that stand out. There's a list of all anime for the current season, what day they air, where to watch them, and an anichart with a quick summary and genre breakdown of each show. There's even some rules established with what is and isn't acceptable.

By comparison, what the fuck is this shit?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1141385
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1132949
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1131533
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1117117
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1104914
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1132190

 

[Jarmel]

I think mostly we're trying to interpret the fact that Cyan used the content in that thread to represent some of the perception problems anime has... then got told in here it wasn't representative because the thread was a gag... then charlequin said he'd rather it not be a gag... then he got told it was representative of anime as a whole... so it's unclear what the initial response to Cyan was?

BGBW does like a number of the shows and presumable did Gaf-chan as a joke. So it's not like it's a total joke OP or whatever. He was having a sense of humor while being informative at the same time. A good chunk of the shows in the OP are good.

Who cares when the writing is garbage though. You could give Pixar a billion dollars to animate Korra S2 and it wouldn't have been better.

Yea Yea I know.

 

[MogCakes]

And just to match your anecdotal difference with some of mine, I've been to plenty of anime conventions and they been some of the most welcoming people I've ever met.

To add, insular people who actively exclude others from their sphere are usually looked down on at conventions and as a result they're less likely to act out. There is a prevalence of unintentional exclusion. That's something that will always be part of the subculture, I feel. Much like NFL fans who wear jerseys, face paint, know every player in the league, every historically popular play, and so on. They certainly can be very welcoming and supportive, but the display of their passion will be off-putting to many.

 

[Satch]

A) dity, I only see you in the Dragon Ball Super threads but not for any other anime so maybe you aren't watching the right stuff? There's no question there are issues with standard anime production schedules and what not that there are still many extremely well animated anime being produced yearly. I'm going to have to agree with Jarmel on this one.

B) Ok was the OP to AnimeGaf super different at some point in the season? Because what I see right now is basically a list of everything airing this season, where to watch them all legally and links to the individual topic threads for shows with their own topics. I'm literally not sure how it could be more helpful. I'll also chime in by saying AnimeGaf is usually very helpful to new posters and always willing to to give advice. As already noted, the statistics also back it being a newbie friendly community. I'm not sure how it got a reputation otherwise.

It's nothing to do with whether or not its helpful. It's about the fact that you go in and see so much anime moe chan baka fanservice muh little girls in short skirts xD front and center. From the outside looking in, it's not going to be appealing to you if your general tastes don't align with that super fanservicey garbage. It does not leave a good impression at all.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Some seedier parts of 'Otaku Culture', maybe, but I can still think of a ton of anime shows you could bring up with regular geeks and even dreaded normies without people asking if you're on a government watch list.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

it just ends up as more visible for whatever reason. on the other end of the spectrum, there's stuff like haikyuu or kuroko, which have many fans that aren't into the whole "pretty boy" love thing but has plenty of people that are and creepy merchandise exists for those male characters but they certainly don't represent everyone and aren't enough of a turn-off for people to not watch those things.

It's visible because it sells.

Some seedier parts of 'Otaku Culture', maybe, but I can still think of a ton of anime shows you could bring up with regular geeks and even dreaded normies without people asking if you're on a government watch list.

This is a big problem. You don't have to do this with video games or comics: they're not as creepy as anime. Whenever I talk about anime I always have to preface or asterisk it with "not shit like Kill la Kill or whatever creepy fanservice is out atm" because, usually, that's where the conversation goes: it's hard to talk about it without the creepy stuff being brought up.

 

[charlequin]

How is the OP not helpful?

Someone tried to use what is supposedly a list of community guidelines as a sample set for discussing what the perception of "popular" shows is and it produced howls of laughter from multiple sources that anyone would even consider taking that list seriously? I mean this is not complicated.

If you've got an idea of what kind of OP you'd like to see, perhaps you can provide an example of one that meets your standards? Ideally one of the past AnimeGAF OPs, just for the most relevance. I think it'd be helpful.

With the caveat that I (clearly, from this thread) don't know enough to to be able to recognize ultra-dry sarcastic OPs designed to be misleading, even the most recent previous thread for the Summer season fits the bill of what I'd expect: schedule, links to individual show OTs, season highlights with links to learn more, historical recommendation threads. It's not a problem to have silly jokey OPs, it's just a problem if someone trying to take a section of "highlights" or "recommendations" seriously is the occasion of mockery.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Every community has people like that. Look at From Software fans over at Gaming side shitting on people that dare to ask for an "easy" mode. And the who made that commentary is no angel himself considering he also obnoxious when it comes to his own beliefs.

And just to match your anecdotal difference with some of mine, I've been to plenty of anime conventions and they been some of the most welcoming people I've ever met.

I mean free hugs are pretty huge in anime convention, you can't get more welcoming then that !

 

[dity]

Considering what's currently being discussed in the thread (such as a joke list in an OP) can I bring up the anime fandom's seemingly negative demeanour while I'm here? I'm talking about the in-community shit talking where instead of patting each other on the back and supporting each other for the things they like despite different tastes in certain shows they instead take the heavy ironic humour route to make everything a big joke? That's what I noticed as like a 5-6 year member on MyAnimeList. Wow that place sucked.

A) dity, I only see you in the Dragon Ball Super threads but not for any other anime so maybe you aren't watching the right stuff? There's no question there are issues with standard anime production schedules and what not that there are still many extremely well animated anime being produced yearly. I'm going to have to agree with Jarmel on this one.

I watch other anime on and off but not as regularly as I used to. Super is the only one I bother discussing is all. However I can say fhat between the ages of 10 and 21 I watched anime absolutely constantly. When I used MAL my series count was something like 450?

I still haven't watched the clips but can I make the assertion that the difference between art style and animation is being confused? I mentioned someone previously mentioning "flat" before (which is the trend in the west currently), which would moreso come under art style. When I talk animation I mean how it flows, not how it looks. Movement, talking, that sort of stuff.

 

[Jarmel]

It's nothing to do with whether or not its helpful. It's about the fact that you go in and see so much anime moe chan baka fanservice muh little girls in short skirts xD front and center. From the outside looking in, it's not going to be appealing to you if your general tastes don't align with that super fanservicey garbage. It does not leave a good impression at all.

Moe=/fanservice

Like at all.

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

It's nothing to do with whether or not its helpful. It's about the fact that you go in and see so much anime moe chan baka fanservice muh little girls in short skirts xD front and center. From the outside looking in, it's not going to be appealing to you if your general tastes don't align with that super fanservicey garbage. It does not leave a good impression at all.

Again, there's not much you can do if that's what you're being given for a season to showcase.

If there was a vast amount of shows that could be appealing to everyone, they would get covered just as much as shows that might be offputting.

If it's a relatively dry season, we don't have much to go on.

 

[Russ T]

It's nothing to do with whether or not its helpful. It's about the fact that you go in and see so much anime moe chan baka fanservice muh little girls in short skirts xD front and center. From the outside looking in, it's not going to be appealing to you if your general tastes don't align with that super fanservicey garbage. It does not leave a good impression at all.

At a quick survey of all the anime listed in the OP, seven of them feature Cute Girls Looking Cute (although I'd say Owarimonogatari's cover girl looks more creepy than anything else, but I won't defend that because I know what Monogatari is...), and half of those don't look immediately sexualized. Now, seven is still almost half of the sixteen listed, but... that also means OVER half are NOT Cute Girls Looking Cute.

I'm always the first to criticize anime for having too much fanservice, but that OP, in its current state, is... remarkably tame. Is it just GAF-chan? Does it taint your vision so much that you can't see the non-moe, non-fanservice looking series listed there?

 

[Puruzi]

I watch other anime on and off but not as regularly as I used to. Super is the only one I bother discussing is all. However I can say fhat between the ages of 10 and 21 I watched anime absolutely constantly. When I used MAL my series count was something like 450?

I still haven't watched the clips but can I make the assertion that the difference between art style and animation is being confused? I mentioned someone previously mentioning "flat" before (which is the trend in the west currently), which would moreso come under art style. When I talk animation I mean how it flows, not how it looks. Movement, talking, that sort of stuff.

No, we're talking about animation.

http://sakuga.yshi.org/post

Check out that website when you have time.

Animation in anime DESTROYS the animation we see in US cartoons right now, and it's not close. Not saying anime is better, but the animation? It isn't even up for debate really.

 

[Jarmel]

With the caveat that I (clearly, from this thread) don't know enough to to be able to recognize ultra-dry sarcastic OPs designed to be misleading, even the most recent previous thread for the Summer season fits the bill of what I'd expect: schedule, links to individual show OTs, season highlights with links to learn more, historical recommendation threads. It's not a problem to have silly jokey OPs, it's just a problem if someone trying to take a section of "highlights" or "recommendations" seriously is the occasion of mockery.

Those are the season highlights. Gundam, One Punch Man, Haikyuu, Noragami, Hackadoll, etc. It's not misleading at all in the information provided.

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

Conventions are anything but mainstream. They are the gathering meccas of the niches.



Maybe if he posted some examples, yeah.

From Fire Emblem Awakening.



“So you know how old I am, huh? Weird. Most people can't stop talking about how young I look.”

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Nowi "Nowi is a Manakete of an unknown origin or tribe who is around 1,000 years old."

 

[MogCakes]

From the outside looking in, it's not going to be appealing to you if your general tastes don't align with that super fanservicey garbage. It does not leave a good impression at all.

This is where I would draw the line as far as the division of niche and mainstream-esque. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that a niche remains a niche and mainstream remains as it is. There are plenty of gateway series in mainstream media that lead into the niches. A trip to Walmart yields Sailor Moon, Pokemon, DBZ DVDs and such in the movie and TV section. If any part of anime is to become mainstream in some serious effort, it will be from the likes of Ghibli and co, not the very niche media consumed by online anime communities.

As for that thread, this is NeoGAF, there are many OTs with their own vernacular and the offending material of that OP isn't the joke from the topic creator, but the shows themselves which would have been off-putting to outsiders no matter how elegantly presented.

From Fire Emblem Awakening.

Are we moving the goalposts to anything that is pandering now or are we sticking with the whole 'people on this forum with avatars of barely dressed children' motif?

 

[dity]

No, we're talking about animation.

http://sakuga.yshi.org/post

Check out that website when you have time.

Animation in anime DESTROYS the animation we see in US cartoons right now, and it's not close. Not saying anime is better, but the animation? It isn't even up for debate really.

But my overall experience doesn't match that. I'd call anime on average sub-par with some exceptions. US animation isn't perfect but I think on an average level it's more consistently average instead of sub-par.

 

[texhnolyze]

Moe=/fanservice

Like at all.

Why though?
How about people who love moe stuff? Aren't moe characters in anime considered fanservice to them?

 

[AlexBasch]

https://youtu.be/_OeCz86WH6Y

Mashups incoming.

lol

I'm several hours late, but I don't give a shit.

 

[-Horizon-]

From Fire Emblem Awakening.



“So you know how old I am, huh? Weird. Most people can't stop talking about how young I look.”

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Nowi "Nowi is a Manakete of an unknown origin or tribe who is around 1,000 years old."

I don't think I've seen anyone with a Nowi avatar. At least not anymore.