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[marrec]

I wouldn't say they're entirely unfounded. A portion of sales are based on critical reception. Hardly anyone trusts the media anymore, if it's not one agenda it's another.

You can see it in the flavouring given to the story on some of the sites, the Eurogamer one for example. This is the first time they've mentioned the game even exists, and took time in the article to take a swipe at DOA5.

If it had been released here, I was legitimately expecting a scramble from some areas of media to be as outwardly progressive and offended as possible, while it's met with a much more varied and measured reaction from people who actually buy games.

P-A pulled a perfect marketing stunt though, I hope everyone understands that's their agenda.

The scramble from the media to be seen as progressive would have not been any more or less visible than any other game of it's type, or there's nothing particularly offensive about DOAX3 that makes it stand out in a crowd of niche wank games.

Either way, the specter of SJW censorship is entirely unfounded because nobody on the internet has caused any game to be forcibly censored up to this point.

 

[freeofgreed]

There is voicing it and then there is trying to shove it down people's throats.

What does shoving it down peoples throats mean? How do you define the difference? And do you have any links of them doing this in regards to this game?

 

[Valdfellgar]

Ever hear of the fujoshi market? There are exponentially more women-oriented games in Japan than there are in the west.

I have, I'm more referring to a DoA or Senran Kagura ogling equivalent, which I don't think fujoshi quite equals, but I should've at least mentioned those yes. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[radios shipping overview]

There is voicing it and then there is trying to shove it down people's throats.

When has this happened?

 

[Pro from Dover]

lol and it worked...

.

EDIT: I see Play Asia thinking "Here's the game, here's the climate... How's the weather?"

 

[Tohsaka]

I have, I'm more referring to a DoA or Senran Kagura ogling equivalent, which I don't think fujoshi quite equals, but I should've at least mentioned those yes. Thanks for pointing that out.

There are some games like that, like this one for example. They just don't get localized, presumably because the publishers don't think there's a big enough market for them in the west.

 

[Sianos]

It really should because it is doing a great job at both so far.

The whole point of the game is the visuals. The volleyball, etc. is just icing on the cake

The industry's obsession with maximally sexualizing non-sexual situations combined with the inexplicable aversion to show healthy expressions of sexuality in sexual situation is the source of the problem, in my opinion.

Why is the vast majority of sexual content in games inexplicable at best, and downright unhealthy through the modelled implications at worst? Why is a couple having consensual sex depicted way less often than the ogling of women in non-sexual situations?

 

[Kinyou]

I have, I'm more referring to a DoA or Senran Kagura ogling equivalent, which I don't think fujoshi quite equals, but I should've at least mentioned those yes. Thanks for pointing that out.

A question would be how much interest there would even be from women. Afaik did "Playgirl" (playboy with male models) grow rather popular with gay men while it left women somewhat cold. Though that's also a discussion for another topic.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

There is voicing it and then there is trying to shove it down people's throats.

which they do how?

and it's interesting that accountname is allowed, like someone calling himself ahegao face.

 

[Valdfellgar]

There are some games like that, like this one for example. They just don't get localized, presumably because the publishers don't think there's a big enough market for them in the west.

Right but they're all visual novel sorta minimalist 2d games aren't they? It'd be great if those were at least localized once as an experiment, but a proper 3D game like Kagura would make me feel like an equal budget was being used on female oriented games too.

 

[bigwinnerx]

Why is the vast majority of sexual content in games inexplicable at best, and downright unhealthy through the modelled implications at worst? Why is a couple having consensual sex depicted way less often than the ogling of women in non-sexual situations?

Because the people buying these games have way more experience with the latter than the former.

 

[marrec]

When has this happened?

I printed out my dislike for DOAX3 on some paper and then drove around until I found someone wearing a Fedora and a satin DBZ Flame Shirt and then I kidnapped them, drugged them, tied them to a study (necessary) metal chair in my basement. Then I blended up the printed out complaints into a watery pulp and forced the kidnapped neck-beard to drink it.

Afterwards I released him back into the wild.

That'll show people who like DOAX3 who's boss.

 

[system11]

The scramble from the media to be seen as progressive would have not been any more or less visible than any other game of it's type, or there's nothing particularly offensive about DOAX3 that makes it stand out in a crowd of niche wank games.

Correct, no worse than others, but enough to affect sales to the point where it's not /worth/ releasing it based on the budget of the game and the costs of releasing it here? Maybe. That's not censorship as such, but it certainly affects visibility and the overall commercial success or failure of the product.

 

[Kinyou]

Because the people buying these games have way more experience with the latter than the former.

Does this mean people who buy lots of shooters also have experience with shooting guns?

 

[Deleted member 126221]

I wouldn't say they're entirely unfounded. A portion of sales are based on critical reception. Hardly anyone trusts the media anymore, if it's not one agenda it's another.

You can see it in the flavouring given to the story on some of the sites, the Eurogamer one for example. This is the first time they've mentioned the game even exists, and took time in the article to take a swipe at DOA5.

If it had been released here, I was legitimately expecting a scramble from some areas of media to be as outwardly progressive and offended as possible, while it's met with a much more varied and measured reaction from people who actually buy games.

P-A pulled a perfect marketing stunt though, I hope everyone understands that's their agenda.

...DOAX 1 and 2 had poor critical reception even before "SJW" was an internet buzzword.

 

[Fatal Futanari]

What does shoving it down peoples throats mean? How do you define the difference? And do you have any links of them doing this in regards to this game?

When has this happened?

Not here of course but on Twitter. I'm mobile right now so cant link examples.

it's interesting that accountname is allowed, like someone calling himself ahegao face.

lol ok man

 

[Valdfellgar]

A question would be how much interest there would even be from women. Afaik did "Playgirl" (playboy with male models) grow rather popular with gay men while it left women somewhat cold. Though that's also a discussion for another topic.

True, I wish someone would give it another college try though in this modern market, and then if it sold like crap, but had male designs that appealed to women and gay men, then I guess that'd be that. I don't think if it ultimately that means male gaze pandering should go away though. (Not saying you said that.)

 

[Nabae]

So do you think SJW don't have the right to voice their opinion on this game?

Remember the Akiba's Trip backlash and someone threatening to harm themselves over it, effectively scaring Hatsuu/Brittany off of social media for a good while? Point is, social media has a hostile side that shouldn't be played down as "opinions".

Do you really think "SJWs" or their social media followers were going to buy this game anyways? Would them bashing it have any effect on the people who will buy it?

edit: basically I'm saying I don't actually think there is a consumer who is really interested in dead or alive extreme beach volleyball 3 but would decide not to buy it if someone tweeted or wrote an article saying it objectifies women.

You're right that they wouldn't buy it, but isn't that part of the problem? Their knowledge about the game is second hand, incomplete, and usually cherry picked too, but they sometimes talk as if the cover was all they needed to see, and that there can't be any more to it. There will be bashing, and it'll be persistent, and if you're working for Koei Tecmo and you're tasked with defending the decision to localize it, you're going to have a hell of a time trying to have any sort of meaningful dialogue. We, the consumers, don't have to deal with any of the backlash. We can buy whatever we want and enjoy it quietly.

 

[marrec]

Correct, no worse than others, but enough to affect sales to the point where it's not /worth/ releasing it based on the budget of the game and the costs of releasing it here? Maybe. That's not censorship as such, but it certainly affects visibility and the overall commercial success or failure of the product.

I think the overall commercial success or failure is still overtly determined by quality (of game or fanservice) rather than a small backlash on social media and in proper media.

In fact, if T-K were smart, they would have taken advantage of it just as P-A has. Or Hatred did, or any other number of games that very basically ONLY SOLD due to the overblown backlash from supposed SJWs.

Of course, they may not understand the nuance of this purely American anomaly.

 

[Faustek]

snip.

Nice as always besada.

My problem with this is that there is way to many people that do believe it has to be either this way or that way when in fact it's probably a mix of both. It seems as people cannot deal with a swing. Most people, if not unlucky, should have learned how a swing works since early age.
You go back and forth people.
But if you expressed opinion one day you're either a "SJW" bastard and dear jebus if you did it on twitter. I get why people make private accounts. I hate that they must because of dirty little shitty cowards.
The next day you express "GG" opinion and behold same shit happens. I sincerely loath it. I'm not a supporter of harassment.

See tendencies if it here in GAF as well.

With us or against us.

When in fact, at least I, have a varying degree of feelings for each topic.

Take for example of femshep, I really liked the character. Yes it was no essential difference between femShep and MaleShep but she was there for those who wished to play a woman. Heck I think I've said it in every Damn Nintendo topic about race that it doesn't matter if they just throw in a brown character. It's not like any other have needed an epic story line to be introduced. I just want my nieces and nephews to be represented. To feel like they also have a spot.

Anyway on "topic". The biggest "enemy" anyone have when these come up is the way they represent their cause. I'm all for making it inclusive and better, not talking Beach DoA now, games for everyone. But if one comes in abrasive one is more likely to alienate people. The big middle ground you talked about last year when Quinn got, I'm sorry what happened or rather happens to her is disgusting and I don't know how to put it in words. Anyway, we're all alienating people. We get stuck in a artificially facilitated echo chamber and if someone pokes that? They become something that must be stomped down.
Not saying one must listen to every little shit thing anyone says but to be an ass against someone because they happen to disagree on something then you're basically becoming the shit you claim to fight.
And guess what? People like to stick together for some reason. If this so called echo chamber shits on you you aren't sticking around to listen.

Now many here knows better but many don't. Thankfully the red ones knows better.

PS. We in Godwins law territory yet? Haven't seen anything yet and I am perplexed. Or perhaps the ISIL crap was the new thing?

PPS. On mobile. Forgive the autocorrect spellings. The grammar is on me though.

Off topic: anyone know when the Dissidia stream was? Saw it pop online on twitch but a soon as I asked they went silent and shut it down

 

[Kaiterra]

The industry's obsession with maximally sexualizing non-sexual situations combined with the inexplicable aversion to show healthy expressions of sexuality in sexual situation is the source of the problem, in my opinion.

Why is the vast majority of sexual content in games inexplicable at best, and downright unhealthy through the modelled implications at worst? Why is a couple having consensual sex depicted way less often than the ogling of women in non-sexual situations?

I remember thinking how weird Bioware's sex scenes were but now I'm playing Fallout 4 and it feels kind of strange that there aren't any.

 

[muteki]

The industry's obsession with maximally sexualizing non-sexual situations combined with the inexplicable aversion to show healthy expressions of sexuality in sexual situation is the source of the problem, in my opinion.

Why is the vast majority of sexual content in games inexplicable at best, and downright unhealthy through the modelled implications at worst? Why is a couple having consensual sex depicted way less often than the ogling of women in non-sexual situations?

I've watched a bit of beach volleyball, I have a hard time seeing how it isn't sexual, to some degree.

Because the people buying these games have way more experience with the latter than the former.

Now that's constructive!

 

[freeofgreed]

Not here of course but on Twitter. I'm mobile right now so cant link examples.

So people writting shit on twitter is "shoving it down peoples throats"? Let's assume this was true, what do you think should be done about it? Should we ban all these people from using the internet? Can I do the same to gamergaters?

Remember the Akiba's Trip backlash and someone threatening to harm themselves over it, effectively scaring Hatsuu/Brittany off of social media for a good while? Point is, social media has a hostile side that shouldn't be played down as "opinions".

Crazy people exist big whoop. Nothing like that has happened for this game. What exactly are Tecmo Koei even afraid of? Articles? low review scores? That hasn't stopped them before. What can SJWs do today that hasn't already been done to them in the past? Maybe they could stop the game from releasing in the we... oh wait Koei has already done that themselves!

 

[Darth Kupi]

which they do how?

and it's interesting that accountname is allowed, like someone calling himself ahegao face.

Lol I did'nt even notice it untill you brought it up.

Good one Fatal Futanari. Got a chuckle out of me.

 

[zashga]

So am I missing something, or did Play-Asia just sucker a bunch of people into importing a bad game by pretending it's controversial?

 

[marrec]

So am I missing something, or did Play-Asia just sucker a bunch of people into importing a bad game by pretending it's controversial?

You pretty much summarized what happened. You missed nothing.

 

[radios shipping overview]

So am I missing something, or did Play-Asia just sucker a bunch of people into importing a bad game by pretending it's controversial?

The jury's still out on how good/bad it is, but yep.

 

[Corpekata]

So am I missing something, or did Play-Asia just sucker a bunch of people into importing a bad game by pretending it's controversial?

Robomodo ought to claim SJWs are the reason there was no Crash Bandicoot helmet in the new Tony Hawk game STAT.

 

[JasoNsider]

It's really making me cringe that people are using the term "SJW" or "Social Justice Warrior" in this thread without any irony, just as that Play Asia tweet did. I was really hoping that this wasn't even up for debate. It's a derogatory and slimey way of putting down anybody who cares about social issues more than random person's arbitrary "maximum social justice allowed". It was absolutely, 100% co-opted by GG for this purpose as well.

We can't have progress until we can at least agree that applying labels to critics and activists is just hurtful and stagnating. People say "well that's what you're doing when labeling GG!" Absolutely not. GG applied their own to themselves (literally chose their own name) from day one, then conveniently decide on a case by case basis what they were not responsible for, depending on how bad it made them look.

I know a number of people who truly work hard to challenge themselves, along with social systems, to make the world a better place for everyone. It's not easy to challenge yourself this much and open your heart to new ideas. So it's sad to think they are getting lumped into this hurtful label. Saying "lol it's just DOA" is also not valid, because of the baggage that comes parceled with terms like these. Internet randoms get to arbitrarily choose what is or is not "crazy" enough to get this label is part of the fundamental problem across the board.

In short, let's agree that this term needs to go away pronto.

edit: to be clear, I get some people are using it with quotes and such, which means they are just referencing the term as part of the ongoing argument.

 

[cartographer]

The industry's obsession with maximally sexualizing non-sexual situations combined with the inexplicable aversion to show healthy expressions of sexuality in sexual situation is the source of the problem, in my opinion.

Why is the vast majority of sexual content in games inexplicable at best, and downright unhealthy through the modelled implications at worst? Why is a couple having consensual sex depicted way less often than the ogling of women in non-sexual situations?

Because these games are generally written as fantasies, and fantasies tend to be selfish and one-sided.

 

[Kinyou]

So am I missing something, or did Play-Asia just sucker a bunch of people into importing a bad game by pretending it's controversial?

It would be pretty hilarious if KT decides to publish the game in the west after all.

 

[Sianos]

I've watched a bit of beach volleyball, I have a hard time seeing how it isn't sexual, to some degree.

Olympic style beach volleyball is 2v2 volleyball on a sand-based field. How is that inherently sexual?

 

[freeofgreed]

It would be pretty hilarious if KT decides to publish the game in the west after all.

I wouldn't be surprised if in a few weeks we get a "due to fan demand we have decided...". All according to keikaku.

 

[Fatal Futanari]

So people writting shit on twitter is "shoving it down peoples throats"? Let's assume this was true, what do you think should be done about it? SHould we ban all these people from using the internet? Can I do the same to gamergaters?

The way and amount it is done, it becomes to be.

Just try ignore it, that's what I do. It does get tiring though.

Lol I did'nt even notice it untill you brought it up.

Good one Fatal Futanari. Got a chuckle out of me.

:>

 

[kitschykitty]

You're right that they wouldn't buy it, but isn't that part of the problem? Their knowledge about the game is second hand, incomplete, and usually cherry picked too, but they sometimes talk as if the cover was all they needed to see, and that there can't be any more to it. There will be bashing, and it'll be persistent, and if you're working for Koei Tecmo and you're tasked with defending the decision to localize it, you're going to have a hell of a time trying to have any sort of meaningful dialogue. We, the consumers, don't have to deal with any of the backlash. We can buy whatever we want and enjoy it quietly.

The problems with this game are pretty overt, watch any trailer, you're making up a scenario where someone who you might consider an "SJW" will play the game and suddenly decide that objectifying women in this particular game is ok or worth it because the volleyball and minigames are good. Not going to happen. If Koei Tecmo don't realize that it's on them, not "SJWs".

 

[Yoshi]

DT2 discussion was banned because the discussion was never about the game and always about the sexualization of the characters. The banning wasn't a statement about the game or the content and more an acceptance that NeoGAF can't discuss this shit in earnest without getting super fucking dumb in ALL WAYS.

Trust me, those DT2 threads were complete shitshows.

Considering this apparantly is the message prohibiting discussion of DT2, this does not seem to be true:

The mod is explicitly talking about the content of the game, not the discussions themselves and if it was about the discussions, it would have been way better to just ban discussions on the sexual content of the game rather than the game. Moreover, if it indeed was about the discussions rather than the game, fans of such games (games of such content, not games of such genre, because I must acknowledge it's a rather competent dungeon crawler) would at least be right in claiming that people they call SJW destroy things they like for them.

 

[Mr. Lemming]

...DOAX 1 and 2 had poor critical reception even before "SJW" was an internet buzzword.

DOAX1 had a mix of high and mediocre reviews, I wouldn't say it had poor critical reception.

 

[Silexx]

I don't think the way Japan handles its pervy games is all around better. I think it's unfortunate that they choose to ignore it, rather than whether it with criticism (Not backlash) in an attempt to make that subgenre grow. It's probably why there's no significant female oriented pervy games for women to consume. No one is challenging them and pushing for the creation of it. That's unfortunate, I think, as I'd bet there's a small niche market for sexually exploitive female oriented muscular/fit female gaze pandering games.

That said, I think the lack of backlash is a huge plus. If Backlash was hitting KT in Japan itself then perhaps DOA might not be getting made over there at all (In DOAs case I doubt it, but you get the general idea.) I think a balance between the two extremes, ignoring the genre or hurling hefty backlash at it, is the true ideal. I'm all for criticism in general, I even said that in my original essay length post, I just think what follows isn't actually healthy.

I appreciate the conciseness of your answer.

So now that we've established that, we are left with this: What form does the 'backlash' in Western culture take shape against games these games and how does it adversely affect them?

 

[Nibel]

So am I missing something, or did Play-Asia just sucker a bunch of people into importing a bad game by pretending it's controversial?

Basically

There never was any real backlash or campaigns against the game - just like with any other niche game that most people don't care about. The DOA mainline games were never as huge as its peers and the Xtreme games are made for an even smaller niche.

Koei Tecmo seems to use the current situation in gaming regarding sexualization as a scapegoat to not bring the game over which is bullshit considered what games they already did bring over this year alone. And nobody cared. This is sleazy.

Play-Asia is just riding that wave by enhancing that narrative with the infamous 'SJW' buzzword that rings bells in a lot of heads. And now they celebrate themselves on one of their social media channels with manga art because that's what you do when you show these evil phantoms wassup

 

[freeofgreed]

The way and amount it is done, it becomes to be.

Just try ignore it, that's what I do. It does get tiring though.



:>

Huh???

lol Basically my point is people have opinions. I personally don't have an issue with this game. I have 0 intrerest in it whatsoever but idc if someone else does more power to them. However you can not blame the people with opinions as the reason why this game isn't coming out. This is 100% on Koei.

 

[lights]

...DOAX 1 and 2 had poor critical reception even before "SJW" was an internet buzzword.

For what it's worth:

IGN - 9.2/10

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2003/01/22/dead-or-alive-xtreme-beach-volleyball-review

 

[GamerJM]

Absolutely brilliant marketing move on P-A's part with almost zero risk of any negative sales prospects in the future.

Well, it's certainly means negative sales prospects from me as a customer . Seriously though, I'm pretty ashamed of how many fellow weebs have this distaste for "SJWs".

 

[muteki]

Olympic style beach volleyball is 2v2 volleyball on a sand-based field. How is that inherently sexual?

Especially Olympic beach volleyball.

 

[Mik317]

P-A are obviously using this as marketing tactics..that much is obvious.

But people cannot act like the current climate hasn't changed things....in the last year, there seems to be some type of controversy (often stupid ones like this) due to some game having serialized female characters every damn month. These companies aren't oblivious to this. And while it probably won't outright stop them, you can be damn sure it comes into the minds of these companies when it comes to bringing games over now. Is the backlash worth it? I think Temco probably got too far ahead of themselves but it is a real thing they have to consider now for western markets. This whole GG shit makes it so, supporting them is a bad look. Not for P-A perhaps but I don't know if supporting insane lunitics is a good idea longterm.

 

[Sianos]

Especially Olympic beach volleyball.

How so? What is it that makes this sport, and especially the top level of competition for the sport, a sexual situation? It's two teams of two playing doubles volleyball on the sand, I fail to see how that is inherently sexual.

 

[Quasar]

So am I missing something, or did Play-Asia just sucker a bunch of people into importing a bad game by pretending it's controversial?

So how does it (or prior games) play as far as volleyball ( or beach volleyball ) games go?

 

[Fatal Futanari]

Huh???

lol Basically my point is people have opinions. I personally don't have an issue with this game. I have 0 intrerest in it whatsoever but idc if someone else does more power to them. However you can not blame the people with opinions as the reason why this game isn't coming out. This is 100% on Koei.

I, myself, am not blaming SJWs for this game not coming out here. My talk was more of those people shitting on people's taste or companies constantly. It is 100% on Koei. All they have to do is ignore it but they probably don't want to deal with it + unsure if it will sell enough here.

 

[IrishNinja]

Better alternatives to Play-Asia:

HMV Japan
Amiami

Pay Japanese retail prices, and considering the current exchange rate, you get an even bigger advantage.

ah cool - if they can beat play-asia on yakuza imports (+ shipping), i'm down!

 

[freeofgreed]

P-A are obviously using this as marketing tactics..that much is obvious.

But people cannot act like the current climate hasn't changed things....in the last year, there seems to be some type of controversy (often stupid ones like this) due to some game having serialized female characters every damn month. These companies aren't oblivious to this. And while it probably won't outright stop them, you can be damn sure it comes into the minds of these companies when it comes to bringing games over now. Is the backlash worth it? I think Temco probably got too far ahead of themselves but it is a real thing they have to consider now for western markets. This whole GG shit makes it so, supporting them is a bad look. Not for P-A perhaps but I don't know if supporting insane lunitics is a good idea longterm.

Yes the climate has changed, but so what? It's not like Techmo is new to it. Also there's been a shit ton of games released in this new "climate" that are just as if not more "perverted" than DOAX that haven't run into any issues. Yes they will be controversial, but even if they were released 10 years ago they still would've been controversial.

 

[rjcc]

And you chose to avoid to mention that I'm talking about a non english speaking community from another country. Seriously, stop assuming crazy things.

what language they speak isn't the important part LOL. I'm not assuming anything. You are allying yourself with hate.