Triple H addresses fan frustration with WWE; admits they feel the same way.
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Sir_Crocodile
Member
the mystery of the two undertakers continues
Attitude Era script vs modern day Raw script
UberTag
Member
One is three times as bloated as the other.
It's also three times less entertaining thanks to the rigid scripting.
Hell, even Triple H and Stephanie are scripted to an obscene level.
Modern day script is almost devoid of backstage sequences to tell stories. Clearly those got in the way of the commercials.
Also, the modern day script keeps referring to someone named Corportate Kane. Who's that?
UberTag
Member
Pretty much. He's scapegoating. The modern show and booking philosophy is shit regardless of whether all of these bodies are healthy or not.
That said, you need to blame someone/something when you can't openly talk about where the real problems lie.
Fourth Storm
Member
There's just so much exposition in the promos now. It's like everything is a Cena promo recapping what lead up to this week.
UberTag
Member
There are only two people on the entire show that are equipped to handle a rigidly scripted promo and deliver it effectively... John Cena and Michael Cole. Predominantly due to the fact that we've gotten used to them sounding a certain way and have accepted a certain level of robotic, brand endorsement as part of their makeup.
Everyone else struggles with it because they're trying to plug all of these square pegs into a round hole that simply doesn't work for most people. Cena and Cole can pull it off because their corners have been sanded off... but very few people can.
I suppose the other exception to this rule would be Heyman. But Heyman's one of the best promos in history. He could read the phone book and make it rapturous.
everyone is given extremely specific things to say vs attitude era script which was just keynotes with the wrestlers creating themselves on the mic.
now I know why old wrestlers laugh about writers writing pro wrestling....
Crazy to see how bloated the script is nowadays.
spindashing
Banned
KidGalactus
Member
They need to open the network up to interesting indy promotions. Make it a wrestling network, and use it to revitalize the industry.
I'd subscribe for 3 years today if I could watch Chikara events on the network.
I'd subscribe for 3 years today if I could watch Chikara events on the network.
UberTag
Member
The extra "T" is for trip?
Sibersk Esto
Banned
For a long time. Most matches used to be much shorter in the past because the people in charge knew they had to fit in commercials and they left the longer matches for the main event and ppvs. But even in the attitude era the long main events matches would have commercial breaks, both from wwe and WCW.
Wow I don't remember, must not have been doing it very often.
funkystudent
Member
BoboBrazil
Member
Script writers are the biggest problem with WWE. Wrestlers should be given certain guidelines or hot points to hit and then structure the promo themselves. That lets them put themselves in the character. The problem today is you have no character or horribly bland characters that the writers don't understand how to write for. The wrestlers also don't have the balls to stand up for themselves either. The reason the new day is so hot write now and the crowd is behind them is due to them going out there and being themselves. They were only given the opportunity to do so after threatening to quit.
Stephanie is the main cause of the problem. She has none of her dad's genius and she was the one that came up with a huge writer committee once she took over as head of creative. She also started the hiring process of failed soap opera writers. That is when the downfall started to happen. There should be no more than 2-3 writers preferably that understand the wrestling business in and out.
Stephanie is the main cause of the problem. She has none of her dad's genius and she was the one that came up with a huge writer committee once she took over as head of creative. She also started the hiring process of failed soap opera writers. That is when the downfall started to happen. There should be no more than 2-3 writers preferably that understand the wrestling business in and out.
Linked for gore and nudity, this was shown on NBC. In primetime.
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net...Attacks.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130622024010
There's actually been a few surveys that stated a large majority of WCW fans simple stopped watching wrestling when it closed down, and didn't move onto anything else.
WCW was southern style rasslin', and there isn't a major TV product with that anymore.
UberTag
Member
Of course, the distinction you're making here is... "long main event matches". Commercial breaks used to be reserved exclusively for those. Whereas in today's era EVERY match is treated like that outside of the occasional squash like Strowman vs. Dreamer (which, ironically enough, WAS last week's in-ring main event).
That is just depressing to read. Who honestly thought THAT was a good idea?
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
Dude saw that wrestling fans were losing interest fast so took the opportunity to show up and advertise House of Hardcore.
When I said "the kids have moved on to UFC" I wasn't talking about WCW fans. That's 15 years ago already.
What I meant is that, in the current market, it would be virtually impossible to start a new promotion. It doesn't fit with the tastes of today.
WWE and WCW organically grew from decades of wrestling promotion tradition that simply doesn't exist anymore in anywhere near the capacity it once had.
WWE chugs on because it's a familiar brand, but anything else trying to exist in that space is nearly futile. WWE kind of doomed itself, in a way, simply by snuffing out the competition and consolidating everything into a bland corporate behemoth where everyone is a "superstar" and no one is a jobber. (Yes, smaller promotions still exist, but they're not culturally relevant enough to expand.)
UberTag
Member
Them cool kids on the Internet... I hear they like themselves that there ECW. They chant for it and like to reminisce about the good 'ole days of extreme. And Tommy Dreamer was their hero.
Seriously speaking... Tommy's a likeable guy and almost always seems to leave a company on good terms.
Justin LaBar's recent column in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review covers why Dreamer's WWE deal is exceptionally unique.
The only difference between UFC and WWE is who's set up to win. They both do promos, storylines, and hypemen. The product was really hot right at WM30 and right afterwards, and they pissed it all away.
If UFC overexposed itself and tried to tell it's fans to fuck off, it'd be having the same issue.
Notice primarily that one just say what items and subjects a promo will cover, not exactly what will be said. Only Austin knows how Austin would talk about that subject, so the idea of some hack soap opera writer, one of thirty, scripting out the whole promo is horrendous.
Yet that's all you have now.
Even Chris Benoit's promo isn't scripted, and he was bad at talking.
5 pages vs 29 pages, and I'll bet the 5 page episode was a hell of a lot better.
UberTag
Member
Don't tell Triple H that, though. The reason why RAW is suffering is "because of the injuries". Not the script that's 6 times as bloated for the show that lasts 150% as long for the feuds that don't exist and the matches that mean nothing.
Of course, I was crowing years ago that wrestlers should be formally trained in improvisational acting and comedy.
Nah, there's a much larger difference. UFC presents itself as a much realer, more legitimate "sport". WWE is viewed more as a children's show that "everyone knows" is fake.
Let me know when Ronda Rousy appears in a Scooby Doo cartoon.
I agree. This is also what made a lot of 80's wrestling promos fun to watch.
Guys like Ultimate Warrior and Macho Man Randy Savage weren't given long elaborate soap opera scripts. Most of the time, they just said whatever crazy shit popped up in their heads.
Demoskinos
Member
One of the real notable changes in the past era is that every title besides the WWE Title does not matter. Rewind to the attitude era. There were guys with AMAZING feuds for the IC title. That belt felt like it meant something.
One of the matches people always bring up when talking about HBK's career is his WM 10 match with Razor for the IC title. It captivated people. I haven't felt that way about an IC title bout in years.
I wish I could get back into wrestling. I really really do and there is a few entertaining things like The New Day. But man how do you have 6 or so hours of TV time every week and have LESS stories that matter?
One of the matches people always bring up when talking about HBK's career is his WM 10 match with Razor for the IC title. It captivated people. I haven't felt that way about an IC title bout in years.
I wish I could get back into wrestling. I really really do and there is a few entertaining things like The New Day. But man how do you have 6 or so hours of TV time every week and have LESS stories that matter?
Thing is, NXT doesn't have super scripted promos except for the really bad talkers. Like Joe is out there and he's clearly going by bullet points just from what he's saying.
This right here is one of the best examples in recent history of WWE's appalling inability to act on the audience's expectations and wants, and illustrates perfectly how out of touch they are. It was unbelievably frustrating.
I find it hard to believe they do it on purpose. They have nothing to lose by letting a talent like Sandow get over. But if they do, it's fucking outrageous. If they don't, I find it hard to believe that no-one saw how easily that storyline wrote itself and how valuable that match would have been on the mania card.
It is completely baffling. And something we see time and time again. The lost potential is relentless and infuriating. Another recent example was the Wyatts/Brothers of Destruction storyline. It could have been alot of fun, with both brothers losing their powers etc. But it was over before it started and benefitted absolutely no-one, and wasn't the slightest bit entertaining.
Fucking bizarro land.
Man, some more "Yes, and"-ing would really improve the product a lot instead of lines that directly undercut what the guy just talking was trying to build all the time and gimmicks getting buried for no reason.
BoboBrazil
Member
WWE kills anything it didn't intend to get over. They know how to keep someone strong if you look at their nonstop pushing and verbal blowjobs of Reigns, but for someone like Daniel Bryan, Mizdow, Cesaro, Zack Ryder, etc you are fucked if you got over on your own and they didn't want you to.
Oh, I know. It's just fucking insane. They should want everything to get over.
UberTag
Member
She may appear in a Scooby Doo cartoon once she starts working for the WWE full-time once her UFC career is over.
Whereas today... NONE of the titles matter. Even the WWE title. Sheamus is just keeping it warm for Roman's WrestleMania payday and will be booked like a loser until then. There's a match on Sunday's TLC card featuring Owens and Ambrose that "should" matter... and is for the IC title... and does have two of the best workers in the business today involved... but does it matter who wins?
They haven't even referenced Dean's brief obsession with the IC title lineage from just earlier this year prior to WrestleMania. You don't have the impression Owens cares about it, either... certainly not like how he cared about that NXT strap.
Aeternus Malum
Member
What?
I remember them saying on the podcast that they spoke with Vince and said if they weren't over as babyface after Mania, they wanted to run heel.
Where's this quitting stuff coming from?
I absolutely can't believe that the writing team is so huge. I mean, what do they do? There is no discernible creativity in any of the "storylines". Everything's so wishy-washy and by-the-numbers, there is absolutely no requirement for a huge team of writers. If my wife, who has absolutely zero interest in wresting, can predict the outcomes of matches and storylines weeks in advance, then every single person in that room deserves to be sacked. Dewey Foley could do better on his own.
She may appear in a Scooby Doo cartoon once she starts working for the WWE full-time once her UFC career is over.
Whereas today... NONE of the titles matter. Even the WWE title. Sheamus is just keeping it warm for Roman's WrestleMania payday and will be booked like a loser until then. There's a match on Sunday's TLC card featuring Owens and Ambrose that "should" matter... and is for the IC title... and does have two of the best workers in the business today involved... but does it matter who wins?
They haven't even referenced Dean's brief obsession with the IC title lineage from just earlier this year prior to WrestleMania. You don't have the impression Owens cares about it, either... certainly not like how he cared about that NXT strap.
That's part of why Zack Ryder's run was so great. Leading up to his win was perhaps one of the lower points for the US title but damn if he didn't put it over like it was the most important thing in the world and you believed it was true for a guy like that.
Someone has to write all that witty dialog! TATER TOTS
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I never had a problem with that program, because it was obvious to me that Sandow doesn't want it bad enough. He's dead weight. He buried himself. He had all the opportunity in the world there.
BoboBrazil
Member
I remember reading it on here in the wrasslin thread. It was either they were going to quit or they told Vince he could fire them if they didn't get over. Most of the wrestlers don't have the balls to approach Vince.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Nobody should've watched that Rasslin' episode of South Park and taken it as a roadmap to success. HHH did just that.
What? He was great, and the crowd were all over it.
cartoon_soldier
Member
House of Hardcore makes money? How?
I see live attendance figures of like 800 people for their events...
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