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[User 479360]

Han :'(

Poor Chewie

Empire
A New Hope
Jedi
The Force Awakens
III
I
II

 

[Meowster]

When Kylo was getting weepy with Han, was he really getting weepy or was it all a ruse?

He didn't want to kill his dad but felt like he "had" to. Giving the lightsaber to Han made it easier for him to take the shot, almost as if it were taking half the blame and guilt off his shoulders by Han telling him it was okay from his perspective. You see him still struggling with the weight of this action later on, I'd say he definitely was upset about doing it.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Finn is possible getting some sort of force powers he heard screams of people dying when Starkiller was fired before it even happened. He might even awake with some after his coma

Yep, there are a few hints the force has awakened in him, and the movie makes it sound like the force is awakening in more than just Rey, possibly among many, and the trailer said "both the light and the dark", but this was cut probably because there's no clear example of the dark side awakening in anyone in this movie.

Also, the coma, it sounds like a nice trope to make him experience something "magical" before he wakes up.

 

[KooopaKid]

Things I didn't like:

- The whole map plot point is bullshit. What Luke Skywalker has been up to? Is he a coward? Why even leave a map behind?
- Why R2D2 reactivates at the end?
- The new big bad guy looks lame, fake and has a stupid name.
- The final dogfights lacked tension and didn't matter at all.
- The Resistance X-wings saving the day mid-film was poorly handled. No sense of anticipation/danger whatsoever.
- Death Star 3.0 was lame, taking its energy from a sun, really?
- The music lacked character themes and wasn't memorable.
- Poe is just too much of an amazing pilot, it looked too video-gamey.

Things I liked:

- Rey, amazing, beautiful, full of energy.
- Finn, very dynamic as well.
- Kilo Ren, the fact he doubts himself a lot.
- BB8.
- The opening sequence.
- The first Millenium Falcon chase.
- Rey/Kilo mind fight.
- Kilo/Han sequence.
- The different new creatures.

 

[brandonh83]

nah I like Ewan but he was terrible in the prequels too

he had some lame lines here and there like I hate it when he does that but imo he was mostly good and oozed charisma.

 

[Yen]

I didn't recognise Gleeson as Hux. It was only after the film I remembered he was meant to be in it.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

I'm gonna take this scene as confirmation Luke is aware of Rey. R2 doesn't wake up until she's on the base and the vision shows Luke touching R2.

Hmmm. I can buy that.

Edit: how do you mean aware though? Aware of her existance or aware that she will seek him out?

 

[16BitNova]

I got the impression that Kylo Ren actually feared turning to the light side of the force. Especially in that scene when he was talking to Vader's mask. I am really curious what sort of hold Snoke has on this guy that's made him so fucked up.

I'm assuming something along the lines of Snoke telling him that the reason his Grandfather died was because of weakness caused by the light side of the force. Ren doesn't want to die I'm sure, so yeah. Plus probably some propaganda in there about Vader only trying to bring order to the galaxy and being killed by the Jedi Knight Luke Skywalker. Thus causing the betrayal to Luke.

 

[MMarston]

I got the impression that Kylo Ren actually feared turning to the light side of the force. Especially in that scene when he was talking to Vader's mask. I am really curious what sort of hold Snoke has on this guy that's made him so fucked up.

I think one thing that plays into a mentality like Kylo's character is being a good guy sucks because, as Anakin showed (poorly) in the prequels, you tend to care too much about the people you love. Thus, a lot of pain comes with that burden.


Kylo sounds like somebody who wants to totally bypass that emotional attachment. It also adds context as to why he feels a bit elated after killing Han.

 

[DrForester]

He clearly almost turned good, which made it such a good scene

I don't think so. I think he just thought he was going to be too weak to go through with it.

 

[jtb]

I read that scene as Kylo stalling Han and Chewie from blowing up the base while the death star was warming up. But I can read it as him being genuinely conflicted about killing his father too.

 

[Shaanyboi]

When Kylo was getting weepy with Han, was he really getting weepy or was it all a ruse?

There was clearly something inside him fighting against his devotion to the Dark Side. He talks earlier about being "seduced by the Light." Maybe some desire to go back to his parents, some ounce of regret. But killing Han was him finally expunging that from himself.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Maz says she "sees the the eyes of someone who is running." That's it.

I thought there was some obvious subtext that tells us that Finn's future is with Poe as a Pilot -

1. Finn returns to the Resistance base to meet Poe. Poe runs over to him, gives him a hug, and then says, "That's my jacket." As Finn starts to remove it, Poe stops him, smiles, looks him directly in the eyes and says, "No, you keep it...it suits you." The jacket of the best pilot in the Resistance "suits" Finn? That's a pretty big hint as to his future.

2. Han, Chewie, Finn, and Maz emerge from the basement into the battle. Chewie and Han start shooting, while Finn, holding the lightsaber, looks around frantically. He then goes over to Maz and says, "I need a weapon!" Maz looks at him at him and says, "You have one!" This is highly suggestive that Finn is incompatible with the saber - it's not in his future. It wasn't natural for him. It wasn't a weapon to him. After they escape from being captured, he even picks a blaster up from one of the dead Stormtroppers, which again, is symbolic - his future is with a blaster, not a lightsaber.

I don't think he'll be a pilot. Both Poe and Rey are better pilots than he could potentially be. Could be a Gunner though.

I also think you're reading a bit too far into the lightsaber and blaster parts. It's more likely that he's just more familiar with blasters because that's what he was trained in.

There were hints he could be Force Sensitive early on but they could also just have been red herrings to make the bait and switch more effective.

Personally I'm in the "it could go either way" camp at the moment.

 

[brandonh83]

- The whole map plot point is bullshit. What Luke Skywalker has been up to? Is he a coward? Why even leave a map behind?

Your typical MacGuffin.

 

[Mr Cola]

He clearly almost turned good, which made it such a good scene

I honestly thought it was very very well done

I thought the whole scene from "BEN!" up until his death was brilliant, I think the death was a little hammed up personally.

 

[Nemic77]

When Kylo was getting weepy with Han, was he really getting weepy or was it all a ruse?

Waiting for my second view to take a better look at this, but it felt real at first. His change of mood coincided with the end of the charging process of the Starkiller base, and the lowering o fhte light at the scene.

I'm inclined to say he was really conflicted. He mentioned as much in his monologue with Vader's helmet.

 

[bananafactory]

V > IV > VI > III > VII > I > II

I cannot in good faith rank VII higher than VI and III. The script is a fucking trainwreck. It's a testament to how great the cast and presentation are that I would still call it a good movie despite the raging dumpster fire of a plot.

raging dumpster fire

Well it sure didn't take long for hyperbole to reach this movie.

 

[Blunoise]

Btw I really like Finn's confession theme, it has some prequel sound to it...surprise no one is talking about it.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I got the impression that Kylo Ren actually feared turning to the light side of the force. Especially in that scene when he was talking to Vader's mask. I am really curious what sort of hold Snoke has on this guy that's made him so fucked up.

Yeah and I think we will never see him struggle with the light side again, I think how the scene was handled when he kills Han is precisely to show us that they won't go over that again, he's full on evil from here on out and effectively surpasses Vader on that point. People saying he was conflicted after killing Han, I don't see it, he asks Rey to join him, he's gone full evil, just wounded.

 

[Ominym]

Nah bro.
Darkside can stop people from dying remember?
Kylo will bring him back.

While I don't think Han is alive and feel that it'd be awful to bring him back, Darth Maul did survive being cut in half and thrown down a pit by the sheer power of hatred in current canon.

 

[Pineapple]

How about Rey is just some random girl who lost her family, happens to be force sensitive and now has an adventure? Why does she have to be related to someone?

Because the film sets it up. The mystery surrounding her background is intended to be one of the cliffhangers of the film. It's to get people excited about who she could possibly be. You don't follow that up in Episode VIII with "Well, actually, she's just a no one, but is strong with the Force."

That's not exciting for most people, especially after the TFA teases that she is someone of great importance.

 

[TheXbox]

Is the map to Luke specifically a map to Luke himself or a map to the Jedi temple? The latter would make more sense to me.

raging dumpster fire

Well it sure didn't take long for hyperbole to reach this movie.

No hyperbole. That is my honest to God first impression. There are so many holes, so many coincidences, so much plot magic. It actually has a lot of the same problems as STID (no conception of the vastness of space/time to travel), and then a ton of other janky shit and eye-rolling coincidences that reek of an unfinished story. The first act was the only coherent portion of the film, and that in itself was a carbon copy of the opening to ANH. Once it tries to do its own things it goes off the rail and flounders for the remaining hour and a half. I still have no idea what happened with the Starkiller base attacking those Republic planets, all conveniently situated right next to each other, and also in sight of Maz's planet - where Han and the gang were trying to find a way to the Republic, which apparently was right there.

Again. Good movie. But not a damn thing about it makes any sense.

 

[Megabyte117]

Ah, so this gonna be that kind of thread now.

My thoughts exactly.

It's clear to most that he is not stereotypically white, clearly he's ethnic. And Oscar Isaac has gone on at length about how pleased he is about representing Latinos in a way that's rarely seen on the big screen.

 

[Henkka]

There was clearly something inside him fighting against his devotion to the Dark Side. He talks earlier about being "seduced by the Light." Maybe some desire to go back to his parents, some ounce of regret. But killing Han was him finally expunging that from himself.

That is definitely what he was going for, but I don't think it worked.

 

[The Elite]

I honestly thought it was very very well done

I thought the whole scene from "BEN!" up until his death was brilliant, I think the death was a little hammed up personally.

It easily stands as one of the best moments in the entire franchise.

I love the light disappearing from the dead sun as Kylo readies to kill his father. Beautiful scene.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I'm gonna take this scene as confirmation Luke is aware of Rey. R2 doesn't wake up until she's on the base and the vision shows Luke touching R2.

Luke must have installed a midichlorian detector in R2!

When Kylo is trying to read her mind he says "I see it now, an island in the middle of the ocean" This is before they completed the map. Indicating he was digging into her past. She had been to the island where Luke is before. She was being trained. Possibly Luke took her into hiding to protect her from Ben during his Sith turn. She either doesnt remember because of a force memory wipe or other jedi mind trick induced by Luke to keep her from coming back.

Yup, "island in the middle of the ocean" is no coincidence.

Hmmm nice. I'm watching it again tonight and things like this should be easier to pay attention to.

You can also notice how often Kylo fights with one hand, even after he's nicked once or twice.

Pretty sure the only other guy to fight with one hand was Vader, when he was straight up styling on Luke in ESB.

(I'm sure there are one-handed users in the PT, btw, but it's clear that fighting with one hand has some significance or speaks to the user's ability...or what they think their ability it)

 

[Pineapple]

I don't think he'll be a pilot. Both Poe and Rey are better pilots than he could potentially be. Could be a Gunner though.

I also think you're reading a bit too far into the lightsaber and blaster parts. It's more likely that he's just more familiar with blasters because that's what he was trained in.

There were hints he could be Force Sensitive early on but they could also just have been red herrings to make the bait and switch more effective.

Personally I'm in the "it could go either way" camp at the moment.

That's fair. I just like to read between the lines, and think those two moments are symbolic suggestions as to Finn's future as a Solo type character instead of a Jedi.

We'll see in 18 months.

 

[shem935]

He clearly almost turned good, which made it such a good scene

Yeah I agree. Really the standout scene visually as well. Loved the light fading in the background as he was lit up blue and red half and half. When it went out you knew he turned. Even if that was a bit telegraphed.

 

[Ovid]

No way it's that early

Yup.

It will be on premium cable (most likely Starz) by next November.

Crazy right.

 

[Red Blaster]

are people trolling when they rank from my point of view the jedi are evil over vii

 

[Skux]

It's Dragonball Z power level battles all over again.

Kylo
- has training but is not even close to mastery
- is injured and bleeding
- has just killed his father, giving him a degree of emotional instability

Rey
- has informal combat experience
- is not physically injured
- has just seen her friend cut down, giving her determination to fight
- has the Force "awakening" inside her, giving her an unmeasurable degree of focus/intuition/innate power that conveniently makes up for the remaining skill discrepancy

At the end of the day, the fight was clumsy compared to the gymnastic fights of the prequel trilogy and driven far more by survival instinct than expressions of skill (which is also what made it far more compelling than those boring saber duels in TFM and AotC). They could have been using clubs and it would have looked the same.

 

[robotrock]

Watch this happen in Episode 8.

Luke: "Your mother was etc etc"

Rey: "What about my father."

Luke: "You had no father."

Spoiler

did u rike it

I'm hoping it's more like:

Luke: "I am your father"

Rey: "What about my mother."

Luke: "You had no mother."

 

[Anton Sugar]

But I can read it as him being genuinely conflicted about killing his father too.

I think he did love Han and Leia--they're his only connections back to the good/light. That's still inside of him--ridding himself of Han (and Leia, if Star Killer hadn't been destroyed) would have been a big 1-2.

 

[brandonh83]

It easily stands as one of the best moments in the entire franchise.

I love the light disappearing from the dead sun as Kylo readies to kill his father. Beautiful scene.

The cinematography in this scene and the saber duel were fucking tremendous. They already stick out as iconic moments in the series. Han's death, the Force theme playing as Rey pulls the saber and ignites it... the movie had shit that IMO will give it classic status as the years pass.

 

[John Harker]

He clearly almost turned good, which made it such a good scene

Finn and Rey came in the room from the elevated balcony behind them from outside, and the light of the draining sun was shining on the bridge and lit Kylo's face... This is when he was most conflicted, when Han offered him help.

As the sun was being drained, the light was fading slowly and right before that scene ended, the light went out in the room and Kylo's face was in darkness.... That was the moment he made up his mind and chose to distinguish his own Light, and did what Vader could never do and kill his own family.

It was a brilliantly done scene.

 

[Meowster]

I'm hoping it's more like:

Luke: "I am your father"

Rey: "What about my mother."

Luke: "You had no mother."

When will Plagueis?

 

[Tacitus_]

- The Resistance X-wings saving the day mid-film was poorly handled. No sense of anticipation/danger whatsoever.

They did have the resistance guy there radioing home at the same time as the FO guy. Though Poe getting there to lead the attack came out of nowhere.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I'm gonna take this scene as confirmation Luke is aware of Rey. R2 doesn't wake up until she's on the base and the vision shows Luke touching R2.

Luke isn't wearing a dark robe. That scene is probably from many years earlier.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Finn and Rey came in the room from the elevated balcony behind them from outside, and the light of the draining sun was shining on the bridge and lit Kylo's face... This is when he was most conflicted, when Han offered him help.

As the sun was being drained, the light was fading slowly and right before that scene ended, the light went out in the room and Kylo's face was in darkness.... That was the moment he made up his mind and chose to distinguish his own Light, and did what Vader could never do and kill his own family.

It was a brilliantly done scene.

How do you guys pick up on this stuff?. I have to watch it again.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Is the map to Luke specifically a map to Luke himself or a map to the Jedi temple? The latter would make more sense to me.

I thought it might be a map to the temple. So it was a "map to Luke's location" insofar as they knew he was there.

 

[moai]

are people trolling when they rank from my point of view the jedi are evil over vii

From this thread i learned gaf loves revenge of the sith. Imho its a terrible movie and doesnt hold a candle to this one.

 

[OricWindstar]

Was it ever stated in the movie that Luke left the map behind?

 

[KingSnake]

He is the Star Wars fanboy. I love it.

Pretty much. He probably turned to the dark side after watching the prequels.

 

[Robot Pants]

are people trolling when they rank from my point of view the jedi are evil over vii

The love for Episode 3 on this board has never made sense to me. I honestly want to study those people.

 

[Mr Cola]

One thing to note that is very important, JJ said they raised questions in this film that didnt have answers, they didnt create an outline for three films, he said there were some natural directions but Rain had already made decisions that JJ never thought of.

So just because a question appears to have an obvious answer, does not mean it will end up so.

 

[Dusktildawn48]

Yup.

It will be on premium cable (most likely Starz) by next November.

Crazy right.

Hope you're right man.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Love that both Luke and Rey are wearing grey robes/clothing at the end.

 

[Ushojax]

When Kylo was getting weepy with Han, was he really getting weepy or was it all a ruse?

If it were a ruse then he wouldn't have been crying to Vader's mask earlier in the movie saying he could feel the light inside himself. He is clearly torn over Han but in order to achieve his ambitions he thinks killing him is necessary, to purge the last bit of light inside himself. He almost turns back but forces himself to kill Han.

 

[dork]

Halfway thru the movie I was wondering if they would have the balls to kill a main character. I assumed they were untouchable

 

[robotrock]

Holy shit. This is probably been discussed, but apparently Ewan McGregor provided Obi-Wan's voice for Rey's Force Vision. That's awesome.

Whoaaaaaaaa

Dude deserved so much more than those prequels