[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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LegendofLex said:
People seem fixated on the idea that Kylo Ren getting shot by Chewie was the reason he lost the lightsaber fight.

That's not it at all.

What really happened is that he's a broken shell of a man, going up against someone whose scars are much less deep, who is learning to tap into her true self for the first time and doing so out of need and not out of desire for power.

His bowcaster wound is significant, of course - it's literally the first actual thing that happens after he kills his father - but it's a physical representation of the damage he has done to himself. Him struggling with the pain of the wound during the fight? Once again, a symbol of what he's doing to himself to keep going.
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I think if he hadn't gotten shot the fight would have ended differently
 
I actually hated Qui-Gon being the first force ghost. He was in no position to do so given how he died, and his personality didn't seem quite suited to it.

Obi-Wan always seemed the best suited to being the first force ghost. He gave himself to peace when he fought Anakin, despite having all the reason in the world to let his anger get to him, and he had all those years to reflect on Tatooine.
 
I have a few simple story bits that you can likely fill in for me:

The intro text scroll states that Poe is visiting an "old friend." Who is the older man in the tent who has the map leading to skywalker? Why does he have this map?

Why doesn't R2D2 have the complete map in its memory?

These weren't really problems for me, I just feel like I missed a few things while watching the film (or maybe they were just brushed aside).
 
Meowster said:
He'd also be named Luke Skywalker. It's a shame people are projecting this onto her and have never had a problem with it in the series in the past.
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That's the cycle here in the spoiler thread though: Someone insinuates or accuses Rey of being a Mary Sue, Someone defends her outright, Someone then implies that Luke was just the same, Someone goes "Nuh, uh! Totally different!", Pointless Bickering, Lies Fallow for like one page, Goes back to step one.

...I mean, at least we have a system, right?
 
Fritz said:
I can see us getting a real nice triangle thing with Poe, Rey and Finn in 8 for the romance fix the series needs.

I can se
ns
e Poe getting a head start with Rey leaving Finn devestated. Then while Rey is somewhere getting her training Poe will fall into the hands of the enemey being awfully disfigured in the process and Finn overcoming his saltiness getting Poe outta there.





... great, this in fanfic territory, isn't it?
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Oh, God. If Lucas was still in charge I can easily see him doing that!

There'll be lines about sand. Rey will hate it, as someone who's spent the majority of her life on Jakku. I mean, it's coarse, rough and irritating, and it gets everywhere.

There might also be lines about stormtrooper armor. After all, it's bulky, uncomfortable, and such a boring white color too!

Yep. Romance.
 
JasonMCG said:
Fuck that guy; she's a badass. She's (probably going to be) a Jedi. She's a pilot. She's has personality to spare. She's gorgeous. If she was a he, you're friend would have a new cinema hero.
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I was initially a little in the "Mary Sue" camp as well... But seeing it a second time, it didn't bother me. I feel like the only thing the movie maybe needs is one line of dialogue that references Rey being a skilled mechanic before they get on the Falcon.

Like, apparently she built that speeder she rides on. If I knew that, her understanding the inner workings of the Falcon wouldn't have made me go "huh?"
 
Future PhaZe said:
I actually hated Qui-Gon being the first force ghost. He was in no position to do so given how he died, and his personality didn't seem quite suited to it.

Obi-Wan always seemed the best suited to being the first force ghost. He gave himself to peace when he fought Anakin, despite having all the reason in the world to let his anger get to him, and he had all those years to reflect on Tatooine.
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Wasn't he considered one of the strongest Jedi at the time?
 
Ophelion said:
That's the cycle here in the spoiler thread though: Someone insinuates or accuses Rey of being a Mary Sue, Someone defends her outright, Someone then implies that Luke was just the same, Someone goes "Nuh, uh! Totally different!", Pointless Bickering, Lies Fallow for like one page, Goes back to step one.

...I mean, at least we have a system, right?
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Well, Rey at least has one positive, she's not named after the creator, George Lucas. :P
 
SalsaShark said:
she's 100% a Mary Sue

yet

im still a big fan of her

next film needs to introduce stakes, and she does need to go through some sort of struggle for a proper character arc

in this one film, outside of a trilogy, she came from nowhere, a slave, and she could:

- Fly the millenium falcon
- Fire blasters accurately
- Beat trained people on Lightsaber duels
- Jedi mind trick the shit out of a stomtrooper on first try

it's not one or the other. she can be a writer insert / mary sue and still be potentially cool and whole. I just think this movie relied a lot on her "mysterious past" to the point where the stakes were pretty low regarding her specifically and the other characters felt like her baggage.

Im sure they'll have some super badass backstory that could explain how apt she is at everything in the star wars universe, but she neeeeeeeeeds something to hold her back in her abilities and to at least struggle a bit to make me properly care as I'd like.

She's a badass character and I really enjoyed her, but I wanna be as interested in her as I am in someone like Kylo, because of his flaws and his need to overcome them.

Rey as a character so far works much better in the big picture of a trilogy thing than she did in this first movie, cause all the presentation of her as a total badass left little room for the stakes to be high and care
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the mary sue thing is pretty annoying at this point tbh

plenty of reasons why she did well in this movie but mainly her badassness can be attributed to her rough upbringing on Jakku, experimentation with the force and clearly natural/forgotten abilities

but yeah, I'm expecting once she finds out her past she'll be emotionally wrecked and that will pave the way for her to struggle

PLUS Kylo Ren is getting full on training so she'll have that to deal with too

god I can't wait
 
Theodoricos said:
Oh, God. If Lucas was still in charge I can easily see him doing that!

There'll be lines about sand. Rey will hate it, as someone who's spent the majority of her life on Jakku. I mean, it's coarse, rough and irritating, and it gets everywhere.

There might also be lines about stormtrooper armor. After all, it's bulky, uncomfortable, and such a boring white color too!

Yep. Romance.
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"Finn I love you

TRULY

DEEPLY

LOVE YOU"

I can't believe someone thought that was a romantic way of putting it
 
-griffy- said:
There's one moment that might suggest her and Finn have a spark, I think it's after the Falcon chase when they finally learn each other's names. There's a brief moment where they both look at each other kind of smiling, like something was going to happen maybe, then the Falcon breaks, sending steam up from the floor and interrupting the moment. I think it would be really easy to read into that, but it's not really enough to definitively suggest anything. Could just be their friendship solidifying. They can very easily go any which way with the characters in the coming films.
Click to expand...

I distinctly remember crying out "kiss, kiss, kiss" twice.
 
LegendofLex said:
People seem fixated on the idea that Kylo Ren getting shot by Chewie was the reason he lost the lightsaber fight.

That's not it at all.

What really happened is that he's a broken shell of a man, going up against someone whose scars are much less deep, who is learning to tap into her true self for the first time and doing so out of need and not out of desire for power.

His bowcaster wound is significant, of course - it's literally the first actual thing that happens after he kills his father - but it's a physical representation of the damage he has done to himself. Him struggling with the pain of the wound during the fight? Once again, a symbol of what he's doing to himself to keep going.
Click to expand...

You're over thinking the fight. He lost because the story needed him to lose even though he can force push, paralyze, and stop lasers (or plasma mid air). There was no compelling reason for his defeat. It's not like Rey channeled her inner Holly Holm.
 
Gaf,
This is Disney we are talking about here. I sincerely doubt they are going to directly address any sort of homosexuality in Star Wars...They might though. Who knows? Wouldn't be opposed if they did, wouldn't be opposed if they didn't.
 
I really want to go see this again. I gotta see that long shot that starts on Finn then focuses on Poe doing awesome pilot stuff, then back to Finn being all hype again.
 
SalsaShark said:
she's 100% a Mary Sue

yet

im still a big fan of her

next film needs to introduce stakes, and she does need to go through some sort of struggle for a proper character arc

in this one film, outside of a trilogy, she came from nowhere, a slave, and she could:

- Fly the millenium falcon
- Fire blasters accurately
- Beat trained people on Lightsaber duels
- Jedi mind trick the shit out of a stomtrooper on first try

it's not one or the other. she can be a writer insert / mary sue and still be potentially cool and whole. I just think this movie relied a lot on her "mysterious past" to the point where the stakes were pretty low regarding her specifically and the other characters felt like her baggage.

Im sure they'll have some super badass backstory that could explain how apt she is at everything in the star wars universe, but she neeeeeeeeeds something to hold her back in her abilities and to at least struggle a bit to make me properly care as I'd like.

She's a badass character and I really enjoyed her, but I wanna be as interested in her as I am in someone like Kylo, because of his flaws and his need to overcome them.

Rey as a character so far works much better in the big picture of a trilogy thing than she did in this first movie, cause all the presentation of her as a total badass left little room for the stakes to be high and care


The way to have a cool badass female character is to hold her in the same regards as a cool male character; you'd groan at a super badass male character that could do everything right always; but you love a character who overcomes hardships to achieve their goal through learning from mistakes and ocassionally failing but ultimately succeeding.

Having a SUPER BADASS WOMAN isnt suddenly "wow they made women cool!!" they need to be treated equally, as interesting and full protagonists
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IMO, even IF (and I don't think she was) flawless in this movie, it's the beginning of her character arc. I don't think we can make sweeping statements of her personality based on the intro movie. Many books/stories the hero seems somewhat competent in the first few chapters. I'll wait before making such an absurd accusation.
 
FloatOn said:
the mary sue thing is pretty annoying at this point tbh

plenty of reasons why she did well in this movie but mainly her badassness can be attributed to her rough upbringing on Jakku, experimentation with the force and clearly natural/forgotten abilities

but yeah, I'm expecting once she finds out her past she'll be emotionally wrecked and that will pave the way for her to struggle

PLUS Kylo Ren is getting full on training so she'll have that to deal with too

god I can't wait
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im just jumping on it cause it's the way its being discussed. I do like the term tho in the sense of identifying a character that serves the script and plot rather than the character itself

having an explanation as to why she's so badass doesnt really break her out of the thing, but it'd be a canonical start. somehow she needs to now struggle where she hadnt before

she seems like the most powerful jedi introduced, and out of the blue. That's not as much a "Girl power!!" thing as it is a cop out when she should be equally interesting as previous male characters have been treated rather than just randomly being more powerful

I have faith in what they'll do with her tho, just think it's hard to pull back now after you've already shown her as the ultimate "not a scratch on me" badass

TheOctodad said:
IMO, even IF (and I don't think she was) flawless in this movie, it's the beginning of her character arc. I don't think we can make sweeping statements of her personality based on the intro movie. Many books/stories the hero seems somewhat competent in the first few chapters. I'll wait before making such an absurd accusation.
Click to expand...

that's why I said she potentially works better in the trilogy as a whole than in the first film

but

films are films man. it's a valid complaint where regardless of series a movie should still stand on its own. im sure it'll be fine, but it's also okay and valid to talk about it now
 
Luke isn't the same as Rey, Luke had more clear motivation and was presented as impatient to a fault, hopefully Reys training confronts at least some internal fault related to her parents or something. I say this as someone who really liked the film but I didn't feel like Rey came out of it as a fully formed character by the time the film ended.
 
FloatOn said:
the mary sue thing is pretty annoying at this point tbh

plenty of reasons why she did well in this movie but mainly her badassness can be attributed to her rough upbringing on Jakku, experimentation with the force and clearly natural/forgotten abilities

but yeah, I'm expecting once she finds out her past she'll be emotionally wrecked and that will pave the way for her to struggle

PLUS Kylo Ren is getting full on training so she'll have that to deal with too

god I can't wait
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The "forgotten abilities" are pretty baseless speculation, imo. Nothing really pointed to her being trained by Luke before arriving on Jakku.
 
-griffy- said:
Here you go:
tumblr_nzmvp0eR6s1ukpsuto1_1280.jpg


And here's some more. The Rey/Finn/Poe shipping is unstoppable at this point:
tumblr_nzqetwXh4w1qfik62o1_540.jpg

tumblr_nzqn2erIHh1qdx71ao1_1280.png
Click to expand...

Are the people who draw this kind of nonsense those same fury freak junkies.

Straight trash
 
Henkka said:
I was initially a little in the "Mary Sue" camp as well... But seeing it a second time, it didn't bother me. I feel like the only thing the movie maybe needs is one line of dialogue that references Rey being a skilled mechanic before they get on the Falcon.

Like, apparently she built that speeder she rides on. If I knew that, her understanding the inner workings of the Falcon wouldn't have made me go "huh?"
Click to expand...

She knew where to go in a Star Destroyer to find parts that were worth trading for. She knows machines. It's literally the first scene she's in.

Future PhaZe said:
I actually hated Qui-Gon being the first force ghost. He was in no position to do so given how he died, and his personality didn't seem quite suited to it.

Obi-Wan always seemed the best suited to being the first force ghost. He gave himself to peace when he fought Anakin, despite having all the reason in the world to let his anger get to him, and he had all those years to reflect on Tatooine.
Click to expand...

Qui Gon was never a ghost though. He only got his voice to be heard. Obi Wan WAS the first force ghost.
 
Subpar Spatula said:
You're over thinking the fight.
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Dude, symbolism is all over Episode VII and in particular all over Kylo Ren and especially the scene on the bridge (literally everything happening in that scene has symbolic significance). Everything we see in most epic fantasy films is structured the way it is for a precise, usually character-centric reason. Adam Driver mentioned in a recent interview how the fact that Kylo's mask has slits for eyes is supposed to be significant.

This is a film; people need to interpret it like one.

He lost because the story needed him to lose even though he can force push, paralyze, and stop lasers (or plasma mid air). There was no compelling reason for his defeat. It's not like Rey channeled her inner Holly Holm.
Click to expand...

The story didn't have to need him to lose.

barnone said:
anyone else think episode 8 could be a prequel to episode 7?

i think they could better backfill missing exposition like that
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Exposition was always my least favorite thing about Star Wars.

Good riddance, I say.
 
barnone said:
anyone else think episode 8 could be a prequel to episode 7?

i think they could better backfill missing exposition like that
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They have books, comics, and games for these things. People are going to have to accept a lot of the explanations they feel they need are going to be put into those more often than not and that anything committed to film will be abridged. These are going to be forward-moving films, I think. TFA makes that clear.
 
Saw it again today, I think I liked the movie more the second time, probably because it was easier to digest the details.

That wide shot of the sunlight overcasting Han and Kylo on the bridge is just wonderful.
 
MMarston said:
While Kylo avatars are vanishing lol
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He's the second coolest though. It really does suck that a small portion of the fanbase started disliking him because he was actually a character with human flaws and not just a menacing badass that just looks intimidating (Darth Maul). Ben's our boy!
 
Inorigo said:
Is the British accent considered native to Coruscant in SW? Is that where Obi-Wan is from?
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Not necessarily Coruscant, but definitely signifies high/core world culture. Places like Naboo use it because it's fancy, and Tarkin forced himself to use it so that he wouldn't be ridiculed for his frontier world upbringing (this is actually the in-universe explanation for why he has a super fancy accent, with the trills, because he's overdoing it). Obi-Wan isn't from Coruscant - he's from Stewjon - but since he was raised in the Jedi Temple, he picked the accent up from someone there. Although this doesn't apply to everyone, as many Jedi obviously do not have the core world accent, like Yoda, Mace, Ahsoka, etc.
 
TheOctodad said:
IMO, even IF (and I don't think she was) flawless in this movie, it's the beginning of her character arc. I don't think we can make sweeping statements of her personality based on the intro movie. Many books/stories the hero seems somewhat competent in the first few chapters. I'll wait before making such an absurd accusation.
Click to expand...

I think her being ... lets say "very competent" throughout most of this movie sets the stage for a very interesting arc going into VIII. Disney would miss a golden opportunity to treat a strong female lead with the respect and complexity that the series has afforded (or tried to afford) the other male protagonists. It would be a waste of not only the social implication, but also a waste of Daisy's talents...she is really good!
 
i think its funny how hung up people are on how unrealistic it is for rey to be good at all that stuff
isnt half the point of the intro to show she's capable of shit? she survives on that planet, alone
its not much of a stretch that she learned other languages in order to communicate with various aliens when trading
its not much of a stretch that she's handy. she has a speeder bike thing. obviously has to work on it
they show her bow staff a TON of times, and even show her using it. so she knows how to fight
 
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