[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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Randomizer said:
My biggest problem is how quickly they pulled together a plan to destroy the Starkiller. It was terrible, terrible writing. It should have taken weeks of planning but no they are the next target and have hours to plan, mobilise
and destroy it. All based on the information of Finn who magical knows the weakness.

Why was there even a resistance in the first place? They defeated the Empire and reestablished the Republic right? The Republic is the resistance not two separate things.

There are more plot issues for minor to huge listed here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html
Click to expand...

He worked there. It's not magic. He worked there.

Republic took over and declared peace. Remnants of the Empire fled to the outer rim and became a terrorist group. The Republic underestimated the power of the First Order but Leia fid not ergo forming the Resistance.

And that link is ridiculous half way through and none of them are even really plotholes.
 
Randomizer said:
My biggest problem is how quickly they pulled together a plan to destroy the Starkiller. It was terrible, terrible writing. It should have taken weeks of planning but no they are the next target and have hours to plan, mobilise and destroy it. All based on the information of Finn who magical knows the weakness.

Why was there even a resistance in the first place? They defeated the Empire and reestablished the Republic right? The Republic is the resistance not two separate things.

There are more plot issues form minor to huge listed here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html
Click to expand...
\

The republic is pretty much demilitarized thanks to Mon Mothma. Leia doesn't agree with this course of action so she forms the resistance that is secretly supported and possibly funded by members of the new Republic.
 
Randomizer said:
My biggest problem is how quickly they pulled together a plan to destroy the Starkiller. It was terrible, terrible writing. It should have taken weeks of planning but no they are the next target and have hours to plan, mobilise and destroy it. All based on the information of Finn who magical knows the weakness.

Why was there even a resistance in the first place? They defeated the Empire and reestablished the Republic right? The Republic is the resistance not two separate things.

There are more plot issues form minor to huge listed here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html
Click to expand...

That writer clearly doesn't know what a plot hole is
 
EIgC50r.jpg


Anyone remembers this rumor lol
 
Boke1879 said:
I think he's perfect for the arc they are clearly going for. I think you're going to see tremendous growth out of him in future films.
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IDK, maybe, what I'm trying to say, he wasn't convincing in the tFA, that's actually only real problem I have with a movie.
Then again I didn't especially liked Mark Hamill in his role, in original trilogy, I had even more complains then, also "not convincing and false" for the most part.
I still liked movies, so it's not the end of the world.

excelsiorlef said:
Why? So far all you said is you don't like how he looks.
Click to expand...

That's not so easy to explain, I see that he acts, the effort, that's how I perceive it, I said as much, not convincing.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
There's not a whole lot of plot holes in The Force Awakens. The plotting isn't why Star Wars really works, anyway.

I don't think it's as good as Star Wars or Empire, myself, but I don't know that the things bringing it below their level are plot-related at all.

It's mostly the editing/pacing.
Click to expand...

I just got back from seeing TFA about an hour ago for the first time, and the last thing you said there is something that bothered me a bit. Especially at the end; I assumed that the completed map was going to set up the adventure to go out and find Luke in the second film, and instead it was like a 10 second process and there he is.

Walked away from the film pretty hopeful about the next installments, still. I can't help but feel like they are setting us up for something weird with Kylo Ren and Rey. It seems like they are kind of suggesting Rey is another of the Skywalker bloodline (maybe Luke's daughter by the way her story is set up?) but they were also very eager to show weakness in Kylo from the jump. People bring it up like a very clear "light side vs dark side" battle in the finale duel but neither one of them seemed all that certain about their direction in the Force to me.
 
Randomizer said:
My biggest problem is how quickly they pulled together a plan to destroy the Starkiller. It was terrible, terrible writing. It should have taken weeks of planning but no they are the next target and have hours to plan, mobilise and destroy it. All based on the information of Finn who magical knows the weakness.
Click to expand...

This scene was embarrassing. Han says some inane shit like "there's gotta be a way to blow it up! there always is!" and then everyone looks impressed like its insightful. Virtually everyone around that table says something really dumb and that's "building the plan". Just no momentum to the thing.
 
raziel said:
Felt like the air was sucked out of the theatre I was in when Kylo took off his mask. Even Rey looked disappointed.
Click to expand...

I hate this so much.

Like a guy can be evil and fucking sadistic and look like mr Rogers.

What does it matter?

He is a young guy and that's what he looks like get over it
 
So many apologists for bad storytelling. Plinkett rule no.1 if it isn't explained in the movie itself, it is terrible storytelling. I'm not reading/watching some EU/Comic/Book/Cartoon for extra information. If you can't explain it in a coherent and concise way in the movie it is bad storytelling end of story.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
There's not a whole lot of plot holes in The Force Awakens. The plotting isn't why Star Wars really works, anyway.

I don't think it's as good as Star Wars or Empire, myself, but I don't know that the things bringing it below their level are plot-related at all.

It's mostly the editing/pacing.
Click to expand...
There aren't any real "plot-holes" in TFA in the traditional, "Wait, that doesn't make any sense. There's no way that makes sense." Instead, it's basically information withheld. How does the Falcon end up on Jakku? How does Maz have Luke's saber? How does Ren know Rey/Finn have Luke's saber?

Etc
 
Brakke said:
This scene was embarrassing. Han says some inane shit like "there's gotta be a way to blow it up! there always is!" and then everyone looks impressed like its insightful. Virtually everyone around that table says something really dumb and that's "building the plan". Just no momentum to the thing.
Click to expand...

The scene in ANH was equally quick though. I don't put much stock in how quick or even how they came up with the plan. They said some things and they had a plan.
 
Starsailor said:
We don't know them but Snoke say that Kylo evolve to the Knight of Ren graduation. So i don't think that name "Kylo Ren" is a coincidence.

Leia also said that the dark side choose many form (sith, empire...) so maybe now the title "Ren" will be in it.
Click to expand...

It could be that The Knights of Ren are his crew and are simply named after him.
 
Randomizer said:
So many apologists for bad storytelling. Plinkett rule no.1 if it isn't explained in the movie itself, it is terrible storytelling. I'm not reading/watching some EU/Comic/Book/Cartoon for extra information. If you can't explain it in a coherent and concise way in the movie it is bad storytelling end of story.
Click to expand...

I've never watched Plonkett's stuff and don't plan to, but if he actually said this with no hint of irony, he's not worth listening to.
 
Randomizer said:
So many apologists for bad storytelling. Plinkett rule no.1 if it isn't explained in the movie itself, it is terrible storytelling. I'm not reading/watching some EU/Comic/Book/Cartoon for extra information. If you can't explain it in a coherent and concise way in the movie it is bad storytelling end of story.
Click to expand...

Plinkett's rules only apply to the prequels. If such things happen on the OT or the new movie, you can ignore them.
 
Right, it's not like they had weeks to devise a strategy. They were facing their imminent destruction within like minutes. Desperate times.....
 
I thought they acknowledged the PT well with Kylos character. His conflict was depicted in the way Anakins should have been in the PT. JJ just managed to do a better job in one film than the PT did in three.
 
Inorigo said:
I've never watched Plonkett's stuff and don't plan to, but if he actually said this with no hint of irony, he's not worth listening to.
Click to expand...

Plinkett's not even an actual person.


And the same guys who wrote those reviews under that persona liked TFA.
 
Randomizer said:
My biggest problem is how quickly they pulled together a plan to destroy the Starkiller. It was terrible, terrible writing. It should have taken weeks of planning but no they are the next target and have hours to plan, mobilise and destroy it. All based on the information of Finn who magical knows the weakness.

Why was there even a resistance in the first place? They defeated the Empire and reestablished the Republic right? The Republic is the resistance not two separate things.

There are more plot issues from minor to huge listed here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html
Click to expand...

Half of those so-called "plot holes" can be answered with "because it makes for a fun and entertaining movie." I'm still reading the list but through the first 30 my only agreement is Ren not sensing Solo when Solo is basically right behind Ren.
 
The Librarian said:
There aren't any real "plot-holes" in TFA in the traditional, "Wait, that doesn't make any sense. There's no way that makes sense." Instead, it's basically information withheld. How does the Falcon end up on Jakku? How does Maz have Luke's saber? How does Ren know Rey/Finn have Luke's saber?

Etc
Click to expand...

This was covered. It was stolen several times over. It was one of the first things than Han inquired about when he found out they came from Jakku.
 
JetBlackPanda said:
I hate this so much.

Like a guy can be evil and fucking sadistic and look like mr Rogers.

What does it matter?

He is a young guy and that's what he looks like get over it
Click to expand...

I hate Kylo's face.

One of the many problems I had with Hayden, and one of the many parallels between the two.

And I have gotten over it. He sucks so bad and I accept that.
 
Randomizer said:
So many apologists for bad storytelling. Plinkett rule no.1 if it isn't explained in the movie itself, it is terrible storytelling. I'm not reading/watching some EU/Comic/Book/Cartoon for extra information. If you can't explain it in a coherent and concise way in the movie it is bad storytelling end of story.
Click to expand...

But likewise you don't need everything spelling out for you. There can (and IMO often should) be areas left ambiguous that you can either fill in yourself or are left to be covered in later movies. Like in this case whether Rey might be a skywalker. We don't know, but maybe she could be, so that leaves you thinking.
 
Boke1879 said:
The scene in ANH was equally quick though. I don't put much stock in how quick or even how they came up with the plan. They said some things and they had a plan.
Click to expand...

Exactly. No need to bog the movie down with inane procedural details. There are plenty of lines alluding to preparing for the operation already.
 
So what are the current theories for Rey's origins? Is she Leia/Han's daughter, Luke's daughter, or is her origin something else entirely?

A part of me started to wonder if Obi-Wan could be her grandfather some how.

In the flashback Rey had, it sounded like Kylo Ren's voice when we saw the little girl being taken by a mysterious figure. I really thought it was basically telling us that Kylo Ren took Rey away or something.
 
MMarston said:
Plinkett's not even an actual person.


And the same guys who wrote those reviews under that persona liked TFA.
Click to expand...

That doesn't absolve that alleged no. 1 rule of being a terrible mentality. It's bad if your audience feels like they're missing information that's vital to the story making sense, but there's a balance to strike. You can leave things open to interpretation and inference, too. Movies are not good because they tell their audience everything in fine detail.

Now if this guy likes TFA, maybe he does realize that, as I think the movie is quite good at it. But his audience doesn't seem to have taken his wisdom with the context it requires. The criticism doesn't apply to TFA.
 
Boke1879 said:
The scene in ANH was equally quick though. I don't put much stock in how quick or even how they came up with the plan. They said some things and they had a plan.
Click to expand...

The scene in ANH was the pilot briefing though. They didn't just come up with the plan while looking at the death star plans right there, the analysis and strategizing was done off-screen beforehand.

Everything related to the superweapon was just unnecessary in TFA, it's easily the weakest part of the movie.
 
Deus Ex machina the movie. Need to destroy a planet destroying super weapon? Ask the janitor. Need the coordinates of mysterious unknown Galaxy? Sleeping robot wakes up just in time and has them for some reason.
 
Inorigo said:
That doesn't resolve that that alleged no. 1 rule is a terrible mentality. It's bad of your audience feels like they're missing information that's vital to the story making sense, but there's a balance to strike. You can leave things open to interpretation and inference, too. Movies are not good because these tell their audience everything in fine detail.

Now if this guy likes TFA, maybe he dies realize that, as I think the movie is quite good at it. But his aidience doesn't seem to have taken his wisdom with the context it requires. The criticism doesn't apply to TFA.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree with this. The Plinkett reviews are fun and entertaining - in fact, they still can be. My main problem is that a lot of people who saw them treat them as if it were the holy bible of SW filmmaking.
 
So I was thinking, when Ren probes Rey's mind he identifies a thought or memory which pretty much describes exactly the location Luke is hidden at. Something to the effect "when you can't sleep, you think of a wave in an ocean and an island". Leading me to believe that at one time Rey must have been with Luke at the island she finds him on at the end of the movie. How else would he be able to pull that from her mind, if she'd never been there? Especially considering during another part she says something to the effect that "she had never seen this much green before"? Thoughts?
 
How I understood it was that they had schematics for Starkiller, but no idea how to bypass the shields. Finn lied and said he knew how to shut them down and as Finn had just now joined him, this is pretty relevant. At that point they looked over it and decided how to approach.
 
brandonh83 said:
Only episode to give TFA a run is ESB. I want to say I like TFA just a bit more but it's a seesaw of conflicting emotions and arguments.
Click to expand...

ESB still ranks above this for me. But I put TFA=ANH simply for enjoyment factor. But I can see myself watching TFA more than ANH. It's just that re watchable to me.
 
Boke1879 said:
ESB still ranks above this for me. But I put TFA=ANH simply for enjoyment factor. But I can see myself watching TFA more than ANH. It's just that re watchable to me.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with that. I do think ESB has a more solid three act structure but TFA just barely wins me over for various reasons. It's so stupidly close though.
 
D6AMIA6N said:
So I was thinking, when Ren probes Rey's mind he identifies a thought or memory which pretty much describes exactly the location Luke is hidden at. Something to the effect "when you can't sleep, you think of a wave in an ocean and an island". Leading me to believe that at one time Rey must have been with Luke at the island she finds him on at the end of the movie. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Or they have some connection to Luke. Remember in ESB. Luke had never been to Cloud City, but he saw Han and Leia there in pain.

That leads me to believe that she does have some connection to Luke or the Temple Luke is at.
 
Kettch said:
The scene in ANH was the pilot briefing though. They didn't just come up with the plan while looking at the death star plans right there, the analysis and strategizing was done off-screen beforehand.

Everything related to the superweapon was just unnecessary in TFA, it's easily the weakest part of the movie.
Click to expand...

I agree that the Starkiller base was the weakest part of the film. TFA planning scene does infer that scouts had already done extensive reconnaissance on the base and that they knew there was a way to possibly destroy it or at least disable it. They actively talk about it. The part I didn't like is how quickly they trusted Finns info and just threw a plan around it. Very high stakes but I think they had little options and time at that point as they were the next target of the base. The scene could have used an additional 10 minutes of whatever to make it seem like they just didn't confer for a few minutes and then just attack the base. Maybe scenes were cut that would flesh it out.
 
raziel said:
I hate Kylo's face.

One of the many problems I had with Hayden, and one of the many parallels between the two.

And I have gotten over it. He sucks so bad and I accept that.
Click to expand...

He looks like everyone's one dofus looking cousin who thinks he's cool but not really.
 
Boke1879 said:
Or they have some connection to Luke. Remember in ESB. Luke had never been to Cloud City, but he saw Han and Leia there in pain.

That leads me to believe that she does have some connection to Luke or the Temple Luke is at.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but she wasn't thinking the thought or having the vision, Ren was taking it from her mind.
 
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