PC gaming should adopt a console approach to regain momentum.

What's the point in trying to make the platform more enticing for beginners when they will have no idea how to do any type of troubleshooting?

Pc is not as hard to get in to as people like to say, but if the user does not have the general interest and curiosity that comes with the platform, thet user is a lost cause trying to "convert".
 
It's hard to resist going all grey-beard with this thread with how you kids have it too easy with PC's these days.

But there is something here that at least steam could use, as a simplified answer to "can I run it". But there are so many ways to do this with PC, like the "windows experience rating, which could easily be used for this, and still they remain unused, so it seems that the benefits in the end are not worth it to go through all the trouble of creating unified requirements for games. Nice idea though!
 
Well, he's right. Alienware Alpha is the exception, not the rule. Assembled gaming PC are expensive, its a fact. And I think Steam machines missed an opportunity to not offer more things like the Alpha.

I still think they are coming.

I should say, the above is a fairly subjective commentary based on my own recent attempts to just what I consider a good gaming PC in a simple/fast fashion. For me, a 2GB gpu isn't attractive. If you want the higher end PC experience that I'm currently looking for (e.g. a 970-esque system +) it seems like you either build your own or pay a substantial premium that puts it out of my comfort zone. I'm happy to be proven wrong though - I live in the EU, if there are other fast/value-for-money ways of getting a system like that that isn't build-your-own, I'm all ears! (As I say, I'll probably end up building my own anyway if not, but the lack or obscurity of other options is lamentable).

you being in Europe sort of makes things more difficult, because alienware products are more expensive over there than over here. Case in point, at one time, you could buy the Alienware Alpha for like $199 with discount.

I think the value proposition you are asking for will come in time, just like how as time went on last generation, it became easier and easier to build a console-busting rig at an affordable price. We're still technically early in this generation's life span. In another year or two, I think you'll see much more competitive hardware.

But that's not the performance tier that most enthusiasts on GAF will want.

It's within the ball park of the PS4 and Xbox one. I would say someone buying an alienware steam machine isn't an enthusiast, and given that people pick up Xboxes and PS4s, it's within an acceptable range. It's not really an outlier in terms of what it can or cannot run, like say the Wii was compared to the Xbox 360 or PS3. It'll still run the same games. It's not a whole other class of hardware.

But what you speak of is another problem people have with PC gaming - the idea that PC gaming is the same thing as console gaming, just with higher end specs. The PC is it's own platform, with perks beyond running games prettier with bells and whistles. I'm obviously preaching to the choir here, but there is a lot that's enticing about PC gaming even if you're merely on par (or even slightly below) performance of the competing consoles. Game sales, mods, free online, etc. The same reasons someone chooses an either Xbox or PS4 over the other - there is value in the ecosystem.

Also (and you certainly know this is true) - the value proposition for machines like this will grow over time the longer you hold off on buying. In 2 years, the value of an equivalent alienware steam machine at the same price will be better than it is today, because of the way technology becomes cheaper over time. Consoles don't really dip in prices the way I expect PC parts to.
 
If only PCs "just worked" like Macs.
The thing is, you need a degree to use one properly and only brain surgeons can build them.

Not sure if serious.

It's Ubisoft.
And you're clearly misreading the chart. PC with measly 17% is obviously losing to both PLAYSTATION (36%) and XBOX (21%). And that's just on pure sale breakdown, when you take into account the fact that each sale on consoles is almost 100% profit for the publisher, whereas PC sales are only made when significantly (75% off at least) discounted and are most probably made with stolen credit cards as well, we can safely assume the profit margin for PC is lower even than the WII one...
It's a wonder why Ubisoft cares so much for the PC gamers with such low profits to be had on the platform. I mean, think of all the countless manhours they have had to spend on developing their social network, Uplay. Hours which could've been spent optimizing their console offering.

You almost had me...
 
It's within the ball park of the PS4 and Xbox one. I would say someone buying an alienware steam machine isn't an enthusiast, and given that people pick up Xboxes and PS4s, it's within an acceptable range. It's not really an outlier in terms of what it can or cannot run, like say the Wii was compared to the Xbox 360 or PS3. It'll still run the same games. It's not a whole other class of hardware.

But what you speak of is another problem people have with PC gaming - the idea that PC gaming is the same thing as console gaming, just with higher end specs. The PC is it's own platform, with perks beyond running games prettier with bells and whistles. I'm obviously preaching to the choir here, but there is a lot that's enticing about PC gaming even if you're merely on par (or even slightly below) performance of the competing consoles. Game sales, mods, free online, etc. The same reasons someone chooses an either Xbox or PS4 over the other - there is value in the ecosystem.

Also (and you certainly know this is true) - the value proposition for machines like this will grow over time the longer you hold off on buying. In 2 years, the value of an equivalent alienware steam machine at the same price will be better than it is today, because of the way technology becomes cheaper over time. Consoles don't really dip in prices the way I expect PC parts to.
That's all true, but it doesn't change the fact that at this point in time, at the attractive ~970 tier of performance, there aren't any decent pre-built offerings that compete on value with building your own.
 
That's all true, but it doesn't change the fact that at this point in time, at the attractive ~970 tier of performance, there aren't any decent pre-built offerings that compete on value with building your own.

Correct. And since PC components are progressing slower, prices aren't dropping fast. CPU prices especially. Gpu prices seem to go up each gen.
 
That's all true, but it doesn't change the fact that at this point in time, at the attractive ~970 tier of performance, there aren't any decent pre-built offerings that compete on value with building your own.

To this I would say by the time the attractive ~970 tier becomes affordable, the new "attractive" tier will be something beyond. When the Alienware steam machine was first conceptualized, the "attractive" tier was, what, a 670? The high end will always be more expensive, because you have to factor in cost of labor and manufacturing and things of that sort. It's built into the economic equation. I guess the only real way for something like this to totally be solvable would be for a company that could control the entire vertical production of a PC system to enter the market... which would ironically make AMD the perfect company for the job lol.

Correct. And since PC components are progressing slower, prices aren't dropping fast. CPU prices especially. Gpu prices seem to go up each gen.

Given the CPUs in the PS4 and Xbox One, I'd say CPU prices don't necessarily need to drop dramatically to be attractive. An i5-2500 will still do you fine at the moment, and you can get those for pretty cheap these days.
 
I don't think we'll ever get pre-built offerings that compete on value to a self built machine. Too many people want to get some margin out of the process.

That's not something unique to PC gaming btw. DIY is fairly common in a lot of places.

I do think companies offer strange configurations once you get into 970 tier territory though. Rarely do you see a machine that makes sense to put together this way even if you are willing to pay a markup, or the price increase becomes very high
 
I don't think we'll ever get pre-built offerings that compete on value to a self built machine

Of course not, it's just not logically viable. What is wiser to compare is a pre-built PC that competes on value with a console. Because that's what other pre-built PCs should be competing with.
 
I don't think we'll ever get pre-built offerings that compete on value to a self built machine. Too many people want to get some margin out of the process.

That's not something unique to PC gaming btw. DIY is fairly common in a lot of places.

I do think companies offer strange configurations once you get into 970 tier territory though. Rarely do you see a machine that makes sense to put together this way even if you are willing to pay the markup.
Yeah, I wouldn't complain about €100 or so for putting the thing together. But it's often far more than that, and the component choices rarely make sense.

Of course, there's the option of getting a custom system built at a shop. It's often not outrageously expensive too, and you have full control.
 
you being in Europe sort of makes things more difficult

Indeed. Doubly so since sterling has strengthened so much. My last PC build was from components bought from the UK, which seemed natural enough being in Ireland, but I think I'll have to look to continental providers which slightly adds to a sense of inconvenience (even if that is a little irrational).
 
Yeah, I wouldn't complain about €100 or so for putting the thing together. But it's often far more than that, and the component choices rarely make sense.

Of course, there's the option of getting a custom system built at a shop. It's often not outrageously expensive too, and you have full control.

IIRC newegg offers the ability to put your machine together for you, for about that fee. It's mainly places like Geeksquad that really rip you off if you're looking for a PC to be put together.

Or, if you're lucky, you'll just have a friend like me around, who actually enjoys putting machines together. I've put together rigs for 4 of my friends who are near computer illiterate.
 
I've spent a good couple of months trying to assist someone in their aim to buy a budget gaming PC for their son.

Forever I am being approached with boxes that contain Core2Duo or Nvidia 210's, them clinging to tangible concepts of 1GB vram and 1TB hard drive as markers of quality/performance.

What chance do they have in understanding the multitude of Intel configurations and all sorts that exist?

But when you say 'assist' couldn't you for example recommend a build from our Build-a-PC thread? They don't need to know all the model numbers and understand everything.
 
That "2016 ready" stuff is hilarious. You could slap any kind of weak garbage shit from ten years ago together and call it "2015 ready" because it will run the best game of 2015!
Undertale

Plenty of 2016 indie games would run on that thing too. Too bad if you wanted triple-A stuff.
 
But I really like this post. This seems pretty cool, I had no idea arcades were going PC as early as 1997 (or earlier). I thought that was a thing SEGA started doing with Lindberg (or Chihiro, if you can count an Xbox based board as a PC) and everybody else caught on eventually.

Yeah it goes back to when PC 3D acceleration was booming in 1997-1998, during the time 3Dfx, Intel and PowerVR were competing to make 3D graphics standard.

Here's more:

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/files/intel/drg/news/coinwp.htm

Also:

VR2fm9w.jpg
 
People are happy to buy fell and Alienware, if somebody puts in a little bit off effort and gets the target market right, it wouldn't do too bad.

People stopped buying compaqs and ibms because they offered crappy specs and a high price. Sell a decent PC, don't make the margin ludicrous and it has a chance.
 
The best solution would be to have more PC literacy in schools. Go over basic coding, how to build a computer, what parts you need for performance, etc. That's the problem right there.
 
The best solution would be to have more PC literacy in schools. Go over basic coding, how to build a computer, what parts you need for performance, etc. That's the problem right there.

Teach them to check the motherboard's RAM compatibility.
 
PS4 will keep eating marketshare at a fast rate from most companies around the world.

But it's decent yes.

Sorry to single you out here, but it's kinda sad how many people are falling for this troll OP.

First, you realize this data is specifically for Ubisoft, right? And second, are you aware that the data still shows PC as being above everything but PS4?

And finally, are you aware that actual industry wide data puts PC above all the consoles(combined)?

I'm sorry, but you fell for it.
 
No I was brand new when I got into pc gaming. I got into precisely because it wasn't like console gaming so I could always just fix (or get it fixed by someone easily)

When I built my first computer I didn't know what a motherboard, ram, gpu was. But Iwas pleasantly pleased to discover that it just required me to read what the motherboard accepted and get that and put it in the right slot.

Just watched some person's youtube video when I was confused or worried I might break something
 
I've had similar ideas MrOrange and expressed them before.

One idea you had that improved on my earlier suggestions is to specify performance by year. At the same time this illustrates a fundamental problem with rating PC performance. Performance increases aren't linear.

Hardware and even game engine design significantly alters what can be done each year.

I think the whole way prebuilt PCs are sold needs to be restructured.

Do not have prebuilt PCs take up shelf space in stores.
Keep 99% of them at a facility. At the store only have a display model where you can see outside and inside the box, a few more demo units to test run various games for 3 minutes or you can pay to play longer like at an arcade and the remaining should be those shipped to the store waiting to be picked up.

Don't rely on a sticker. Use a dynamic display to indicate performance.
At the stores or home people can connect to a cloud server that keeps a running tab on performance for various configurations for specific games. They can enter in the type of games they already own and get a sense of what performance they will get with various configurations.


Emphasize selling displays at stores.
This is where you can have cross appeal with the TV section of any store. People need to be educated on how much their display choice matters on their viewing experience.
 
PC is not that hard to get into, and it has its audience that wants what it offers. There are many options these days to buy a PC, not only building them. You can get (overpriced) pre-built machines or Steam machines (lol @ these) as well.

You can even buy an almost full tower and just buy a GPU on top of it and just plug it in.

PC is already going "semi-console" with digital distribution platforms. But that could be as far as it needs to go on "consolization".

It is already easier to PC game than it has ever been before and by a wide margin. It's still not *as* easy as a console, but it's surprisingly close with Steam and GOG and Origin and others.
Concern troll: the thread.

I'm sure the OP is deeply concerned about this issue. So much so that he completely dismissed and downplayed the PC version of MGSV and called the PS4 build "real graphical representation of the game".

Lol that's just sad OP.
 
OP is a known parody account, bro

Well, sometimes outside of SteamGAF for giggles. Even if just another of his troll threads it still raises some interesting points.

The labeling would be prone to abuse, that much is predictable. '2016 Ready' stickers would just become the new 'ULTRA GAMING' label among the custom build market. Those buying for others would be especially be susceptible to such marketing.

Color-coded components wouldn't be ideal, either. If a person is building the PC themselves (the only target market for such coloring, since most just buy pre-built/custom built systems) then they have already sourced the parts and are likely more clued in as to what is decent.

When it comes to either upgrade a part or sell the part if a user buys a fast 'Red' component it will eventually become the equivalent of a slow 'Yellow' component later, or worse. The only way to ensure all parts are the 'best' is to keep track of the years, and even with the yearly three colors idea there are only so many good looking colors a gamer audience will find attractive, let alone that it would drive sales down of less attractive components.

Which brings up another point. What gaming-oriented buyer would want to display their "slow" colored components to others? Most gaming systems/components are designed to appeal to a gamer market and to show off the insides, regardless of their performance. Making them visibly identifiable by specs is the equivalent of stating 'I couldn't afford the better parts'.

PC building isn't rocket science. Outside of upgrading the CPU components are largely compatible for a reasonably long time and can be upgraded or replaced.
 
Not sure where you're getting the idea that PC sales are trailing consoles from those number in the OP. To me it looks like it's consistently ahead of PS3/360 and even beats the XBONE in some quarters.
PC sales of AAA games are usually not as high as the leading consoles but it definitely has a way more prominent space in the market than 5-7 years ago.
 
Man OP spent a lot of time on this thread. I am really hoping this is some parody/Monty Python British Humor shit.

itsatrap.gif
 
Sorry to single you out here, but it's kinda sad how many people are falling for this troll OP.
To be fair, if you don't know individual posters it's getting harder to tell. The front page is turning more into a parody of itself by the day.
 
To be fair, if you don't know individual posters it's getting harder to tell. The front page is turning more into a parody of itself by the day.
I had no idea who he OP was but surely that post couldn't have been serious. I did enjoy reading it though so props to OP.
 
The problem with the PC graphics is that graphics become way too clean and angular, somehow on lower resolutions textures blend together instead of creating this artificial look.

Ask any real gamer and will tell you something looks "off" on PC versions.
 
My PC is tentatively six plus years old, and I'm still able to play all the modern games with the added benefit of infinite customization, so I would not support the constriction, console gaming brings
 
Joke thread aside, making things more accessible is always a good idea.

At the risk of sounding like an elitist I don't think this is true. I don't want PC gaming to become more "accessible" if it means diluting what makes it special.
I don't want enthusiasts to be shafted for casuals to enjoy this platform, sorry.
 
A big hurdle PC really needs to overcome is the keyboard and mouse. Someone ought to get a standardized controller and include it with the PCs MRORANGE is suggesting. Maybe it's just me, but I think Devil May Cry 4 plays better with a controller!

theres actually a defacto controller, the Xbox 360 controller which is pretty much compatible with every game that support controller input.
 
I have nothing to add to this thread other than that I'm excited for VR and it alone will prompt me to build a new upgraded rig from my 2009 desktop. It has:

i7-920 (stock)
24GB ram
970FTW+
Win 10 Pro

I'm running just about every game I own at 3440x1440 @ 60fps+ without any issues whatsoever.

Minimal upgrades over the last 6 years (SSD, ram, gpu, usb3 pci-3 card). I can't remember a span of time where CPU upgrades mattered so little and it's been a pleasure to get this much life out of a rig that I got in 2009 for $500 pre-built from Dell's Outlet.

When VR comes, I'll be building something that I can expect to get the performance I expect out of VR. So if she makes it to fall 2016 without dying, she will have been the most efficient PC purchase I've ever made.
 
Top Bottom