PatThePassive
Member
I thought they showed it tracking. It locks he delivers the famous "I have you now" line then boom han swoops in?
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
I thought they showed it tracking. It locks he delivers the famous "I have you now" line then boom han swoops in?
LegendofLex
Member
It is a deus ex machina thing.
The entire concept of an all-powerful energy field that controls the universe is a deus ex machina thing.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Sure I'd try it, and I would expect to fail, because I would have no idea what I'm doing. I'm a programmer by trade, and I know programmers do some amazing things, but I can't build you a new YouTube from scratch even though I know it exists, because it's using some technologies I've frankly never had to use. I would have to learn a thing or two. Rey had a casual awareness of Jedi, though she believed them (or at least Luke) to be a myth, and was certainly Force sensitive, but that alone doesn't equip her with the ability to do very specific Force techniques.
Mighty Chin
Banned
Well the prequels are terrible though. But I wouldn't actively discourage anyone from watching them. I'll still watch them if the mood strikes.
I love the Bane redub where Vader says, "crashing this plane....WITH NO SURVIVORS" and then proceeds to take out most of the rebel fleet.
Goddamn, Kylo can't compare.
AlphaStriker
Member
I think you can make an argument that Rey has strong fears of being abandoned. You can allude that to the fact that she prefers to live a solitude lifestyle on Jakku, as to not risk being in a situation where she would feel abandoned or betrayed by anyone. It could be why she was hesitant at first to have BB-8 stay with her for the night.
Fast forward to the scene at Maz's pirate hideout, Finn tells Rey he can no longer come with her on her journey. Rey then tell's Finn "Don't go." Right when Finn exits the doors, Rey begins he hear the force calling to her. Her memory as a child is herself yelling "Don't go!" as the ship presumably carrying her family flies away. I don't think the writers merely saw those lines of dialogue as coincidence. Finn leaving triggered her hidden fears of abandonment, which allowed the force to call to her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=infZSKB5L9I
This is from ESB when Yoda describes the force to Luke. Yoda said you can feel the light side of the force flow through you when you are calm and at peace; much like Rey was when for a moment she closed her eyes during her battle with Kylo Ren.
Similarly back at Maz's place, Rey felt the force calling to her but this time through her fears.
I don't think Rey's character is as clear cut as it seems. I feel she has hidden conflict that will be divulged in the next episode.
Fast forward to the scene at Maz's pirate hideout, Finn tells Rey he can no longer come with her on her journey. Rey then tell's Finn "Don't go." Right when Finn exits the doors, Rey begins he hear the force calling to her. Her memory as a child is herself yelling "Don't go!" as the ship presumably carrying her family flies away. I don't think the writers merely saw those lines of dialogue as coincidence. Finn leaving triggered her hidden fears of abandonment, which allowed the force to call to her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=infZSKB5L9I
This is from ESB when Yoda describes the force to Luke. Yoda said you can feel the light side of the force flow through you when you are calm and at peace; much like Rey was when for a moment she closed her eyes during her battle with Kylo Ren.
Similarly back at Maz's place, Rey felt the force calling to her but this time through her fears.
I don't think Rey's character is as clear cut as it seems. I feel she has hidden conflict that will be divulged in the next episode.
Well, that's exactly what the Episode VII haters think about this movie in particular. So I guess we all have the right to express our opinions.
I don't agree with them, but that's what they felt when they saw this movie. I can't blame them or tell them they are wrong.
Look at it this way Luke isn't a Mary Sue and neither is Rey the force is just stupid bullshit.
Raven117
Member
Right here. This. I think we are being played for suckers.
the black pearl
Member
Sure, but I only looked at is that. I looked at is that force making the shot for him, but not as him using the force. But if its the latter I guess its close to Rey using the storm trooper.
Although the most savant thing Rey did in the movie had more to do with The Falcon.
Ragnorok64
Member
In comparison to the scale of the galaxy, a star moving 93 million miles to the right isn't that big of a deal. Also did it reignite into a super tiny Star?
LegendofLex
Member
I'd say straight up anything we see Rey do that's extraordinary is 100% just the Force guiding her, and trying to examine anything she does through the lens of 'skill' is seriously missing the point.
I love how she mutters "the Force" under her breath, as if it hadn't dawned on her until that precise moment to try to let it guide her.
That this results in an instant turnaround of that fight is pretty telling as to the message the creators were going for.
Does mind trick have a manual or something? People keep treated it like some mathematical equation, when all it really is, is getting into another persons head. Something she just did against Kylo.
What choice did Rey have, but to go up against Kylo? She was clearly a shit marksman. I doubt she was lamenting the lack of her Galactic Lightsaber Certification and instead adopted a "hit bad guy with glowy end" approach. Only at the end of the one sided duel did she remember the force.
the black pearl
Member
Maybe, and like I said, I like the theory that she has a force vacuum locked inside her. And its set free by Ren.
ultracal31
You don't get to bring friends.
Today I watched it for the third time but this time with the girlfriend. I got deeply amused as she pointed out Starkiller base doesn't have much for railings when rey was running around the base.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I'd rather say Rey did the thing. I don't want to say the Force did the thing.
Trigonometrize.
Member
He's a Jedi. He eats the force, of course.
You're comparing harnessing the force to a hard science discipline, but everything in the films compares it more to faith and art. You follow your instincts, you get yourself out of the way and it just works. Luke doesn't fail to lift the X-Wing out of the swamp because he hasn't trained enough to cast Level 5 Force Lift. He can't do it because he doesn't believe he can. You don't need stringent instruction to have a single moment of inspiration. Especially when your life depends on it. Necessity is the mother of all invention.
Randolph Freelander
Member
For all we know, yes! After all, we just got through a prequel triliogy that established that microbes help determine force sensitivity.
In reality, though, in everything I can draw upon, the Force (and magic, in generally) is both ability and technique. With one and without the other, a lot of good it would do you -- you could try to tap into a mind but instead summon a velociraptor (those pesky goto statements....) and then somebody dies. A small amount of tutoring at least goes a long way towards helping bridge the gap.
Mighty Chin
Banned
That was the first thing I thought too.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Before we see him try to lift the X-Wing, we see him manipulating rocks while standing on his head carrying Yoda. Basically, he has been trained. At that point, yes, it's about belief, because he has already received the training on technique, and using the force to reach out and defy the known laws of physics.
But prior even to that, he pulls a lightsaber out of the snow untrained, so training helps you to uncover things you never thought of, but it isn't necessary.
He even fails at it the first few tries, just like Rey.
She did like 40% and the force did the rest. But Luke did like 10% so she's not doing too bad.
Randolph Freelander
Member
And before that, we had seen him receiving early training from Obi-Wan, and we know that time had lapsed between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back in order for him to learn more about his own ability to harness the Force.
Again, I walk it back to say that I have no problem with Rey, lest I be lumped in with the lunatics. Her progression -- absent a later reveal -- is just a bit too fast for me and I reject that it's the same as Luke's. It isn't, not in my mind. That's my only point.
But maybe her midichlorian count is off even the new charts they had to create after Anakin's were off the charts they had before that.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Porkins did more than both of them. Porkins for ever.
What ? I thought it was McGregor (and in a previous take it was James Arnold Taylor). Now it's Alec Guiness ? I don't know what's true anymore...
Well, FINALLY I watched the movie and I can post here. It had a late premiere here(1 week) but I also didn't bother to go earlier. The theater was full though and I laughed a lot when people clapped at the start of it, when an old character appeared and when it finished. I thought only Americans did this! lol
I'm not really a fan of the old movies and I haven't bothered with the prequels but I certainly enjoyed it. I didn't follow the movie at all, so I didn't know most of the stuff in it, so I was certainly surprised with some things. Unfortunately, someone had already informed me of Solo's death, but I can't say that it ruined the movie or anything.
About the movie, I was surprised with Finn. Certainly entertaining as a character and he was down to earth. I'd prefer if there had been further development on why he chose to abandon theEmpireFirst Order but he made up with his enthusiastic behavior and his supporting role. He was a nice contrast to Rey, who I didn't like at all... I think there was a thread about her being a Mary Sue, and while I thought it was laughable at first, she really is a bit too perfect. A pilot, a fighter, great with the force... I also didn't like Luke but I felt that he wasn't that perfect. And both of them were untrained but Luke seemed like an amateur. Her fight with Kylo Ren had a dissatisfying ending, as she actually managed to overwhelm him. I know that he was injured but still she beat him, in the very first movie, without training... Not a fan of her at all, I hope the sequel will do more with her than that. Finn will stay in stasis though, just when I started to enjoy him. 
Han Solo was certainly surprisingly amusing. I wasn't a fan of him at the original movies, as he seemed cheesy but I enjoyed him in this. He was more reserved but still action ready. I knew his demise, but I really liked this scene. It wasn't really directed to be shocking but it still had a huge impact. You knew it would happen and it was perfect. Kylo Ren was also an amusing character. I hadn't seen him without his helm, so I was surprised. I think I heard people laugh when he put off his helm. It was a bit weird to see him being really young but I think he nailed it. It explained his anger issues and his sarcasm. He managed to still feel menacing and a bit crazy. His future appearances will be better and better hopefully.
Overall, I don't think I have any real complaints other than Rey Sue, but the movie was great so I'm happy.
I'm not really a fan of the old movies and I haven't bothered with the prequels but I certainly enjoyed it. I didn't follow the movie at all, so I didn't know most of the stuff in it, so I was certainly surprised with some things. Unfortunately, someone had already informed me of Solo's death, but I can't say that it ruined the movie or anything.
About the movie, I was surprised with Finn. Certainly entertaining as a character and he was down to earth. I'd prefer if there had been further development on why he chose to abandon the
Han Solo was certainly surprisingly amusing. I wasn't a fan of him at the original movies, as he seemed cheesy but I enjoyed him in this. He was more reserved but still action ready. I knew his demise, but I really liked this scene. It wasn't really directed to be shocking but it still had a huge impact. You knew it would happen and it was perfect. Kylo Ren was also an amusing character. I hadn't seen him without his helm, so I was surprised. I think I heard people laugh when he put off his helm. It was a bit weird to see him being really young but I think he nailed it. It explained his anger issues and his sarcasm. He managed to still feel menacing and a bit crazy. His future appearances will be better and better hopefully.
Overall, I don't think I have any real complaints other than Rey Sue, but the movie was great so I'm happy.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Guinness says "Rey". Ewan says "These are your first steps".
heliosRAzi
Banned
That's what a lot of people have been saying.
Grover Cleveland
Member
B4 Da Gawd is the only stormtrooper in history to beat a guy with a lightsaber. (Finn was slumped out on the ground until Han bailed his ass out, he was beaten)
#GOAT
#MightBeAGaryStuTho
#GOAT
#MightBeAGaryStuTho
the black pearl
Member
For the record, I liked the movie. Enjoyed it in theaters although I appreciate it a bit less and time goes on. My main problem with the movie, is that its just incredibly dense. It's not paced like an OT Star Wars movie. It's has some coinicidences (most notable Han showing up) that keep the movie at breakneck pace. It's needs more 'calm before the storm'. (and it needed more Poe) Ambivalent about the callbacks, they are what they are. And to some extent, Daisy Ridley saved the movie for me. She is a stud of an actress and her performance was incredible.
I use Mary Sue casually because I think its an interesting discussion. I think there's a kernel of truth to it. She and Luke are both supposed to be savantes but in this movie, I think they stressed that beat a bit harder. But the people who are using Luke as a comparison, to say it wasnt that different for him, bring up some decent points. But the part where she turns too Han and says "Look what I did" didnt bother me but it did seem like more a "Mary Sue" beat than anything in the OT.
And I agree that there's more to her than what we see now, and theres going to be more internal conflict down the road. I wouldnt be surprised if at some point she's going to kill someone for revenge, or at least want to. I kind of envision Luke trying to stop her, triggering a force stare down that Rey wins.
I use Mary Sue casually because I think its an interesting discussion. I think there's a kernel of truth to it. She and Luke are both supposed to be savantes but in this movie, I think they stressed that beat a bit harder. But the people who are using Luke as a comparison, to say it wasnt that different for him, bring up some decent points. But the part where she turns too Han and says "Look what I did" didnt bother me but it did seem like more a "Mary Sue" beat than anything in the OT.
And I agree that there's more to her than what we see now, and theres going to be more internal conflict down the road. I wouldnt be surprised if at some point she's going to kill someone for revenge, or at least want to. I kind of envision Luke trying to stop her, triggering a force stare down that Rey wins.
DragonSworne
Banned
So would people actually prefer Rey not use the force to espace the room? How exactly would she do that without being extremely coincidently or fortunate?
Her using the force to espace the room makes the most sense. And if not a jedi mind trick, what else should she have done with the force?
Her using the force to espace the room makes the most sense. And if not a jedi mind trick, what else should she have done with the force?
McGregor and Guiness both say stuff in the vision
Twilight Gap
Member
Saw somebody say Kylo has passed Darth Vadar and I had to have a hearty laugh. Every single villain in this movie was trash.
Supreme Leader is something way out of left field. Maybe I missed it but mister giant CG mastermind is given no reason for his existence as a giant mythical entity and just appears to boss the other guys around. The least they could have done was shroud it in some mystery.
The Captain Phasma trooper is wasted. The other imperial guy doesn't have any identity. The two gangs after Han Solo were just goofy.
And then there's Kylo Ren. Once I got past the stupid name and awkward demeanor after he took his bane mask off, I admit he had some nice scenes towards the end. But they tried really hard to sell me on this melodrama of choosing between dark and light and all i saw was a brat rebelling against his parents after he discovered metal music and weed. I'll give him points for having a character, but he's nowhere near the best villains in the universe, especially after that cat call to Rey while their lightsabers were crossed. Just... no.
I liked everything else about the film except these clowns
Supreme Leader is something way out of left field. Maybe I missed it but mister giant CG mastermind is given no reason for his existence as a giant mythical entity and just appears to boss the other guys around. The least they could have done was shroud it in some mystery.
The Captain Phasma trooper is wasted. The other imperial guy doesn't have any identity. The two gangs after Han Solo were just goofy.
And then there's Kylo Ren. Once I got past the stupid name and awkward demeanor after he took his bane mask off, I admit he had some nice scenes towards the end. But they tried really hard to sell me on this melodrama of choosing between dark and light and all i saw was a brat rebelling against his parents after he discovered metal music and weed. I'll give him points for having a character, but he's nowhere near the best villains in the universe, especially after that cat call to Rey while their lightsabers were crossed. Just... no.
I liked everything else about the film except these clowns
heliosRAzi
Banned
I think people would be alright with it if it was set up some more. As it stands, she learns she's Force sensitive in the later part of the movie and then she's forcing James Bond to take off her restraints.
that's damn good. damn good
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Thumbs down
DragonSworne
Banned
So more bullshit exposition and needless foreshadowing to something two scenes away?
Would people actually like it if Han said "It's true, all of it". And Rey went "even the jedi mind trick#?!?#?". And Han responses with "what part of 'all of it' don't you get, kid?" And Rey then says "now that's pod racing!".
Lumpy Onion
Member
Came in with few expectations and found this to be a damn solid movie. Great antagonist, Ford was a joy to watch in the Solo role again, and i never felt bored at all. IMAX 3D didn't add much though. Besides one shot of a Star destroyer that popped out of the screen it was rather negligible. And they had it way too loud to the point of discomfort. Will be seeing it next week on the regular screen and I'll probably enjoy it more.
One shot that I found to be just amazing was when Rey was having lunch under the shade of a fallen walker in the sand. Simple and quiet that image really stuck with me. I quite liked the bridge scene too and found it to be a great dramatic moment. Glad I managed to go in 100% blind after waiting this long to see.
One shot that I found to be just amazing was when Rey was having lunch under the shade of a fallen walker in the sand. Simple and quiet that image really stuck with me. I quite liked the bridge scene too and found it to be a great dramatic moment. Glad I managed to go in 100% blind after waiting this long to see.
Randolph Freelander
Member
I see statements like this and I wonder to myself -- and now to you guys and girls -- how do you even know their names? Or that Hitler guy for the First Order, were their names even mentioned in the movie?
This... this is how Boba Fett got popular isn't it? Some throwaway lackey in the movie that somehow got over anyway for reasons I just can't fathom.
Not really a problem. The New Republic carried on for at least 30 years without any star charts, apparently.
lol.
LegendofLex
Member
If I'm remembering correctly, Lucasfilm/Disney made a pretty big deal about casting Gwendolyn Christie for a role that originally was written for a man.
So that's probably part of it.
Twilight Gap
Member
Well Finn said her name twice. Expected her to duel with him or something.
You know, I actually missed that. It was weird how the movie just... started without that.
I guess where we differ then is if Luke had been put in this same position, I wouldn't have any problem with him figuring it out either. Both of them are young Force prodigies.
I mean, all of Luke's training with Obi-Wan prior to Hoth is: "Stretch out with your feelings, trust your instincts, use the Force, let go, Luke!"
That's it. All of it boils down to, "Just do what's natural and the magic will work."
I didn't see Rey's use of the trick as a matter of potency--although she's obviously very strong in the Force to be able to rebuff Kylo Ren--so much as it was her just being very clever. It's funny, where other people thought, "No way she should be able to do that!"
I thought, "Wow, that was good! This kid's a natural!"
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