BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Most Star Wars characters aren't named on screen and we know their names from supplemental material.
Or in the case of TFA, pre-release news.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
Most Star Wars characters aren't named on screen and we know their names from supplemental material.
Or in the case of TFA, pre-release news.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Bullshit exposition? No. Smart exposition? Yes. Needless foreshadowing? I don't think it would've been needless. Clearly, some people need it. Without it, it feels like comes out of nowhere.
WadiumArcadium
Member
If you followed the film closely before it was released, they announced the character names and spoke about each one quite a bit. That and the merchandise.
Randolph Freelander
Member
At that point in the movie? No "Force" necessary, just force. The alternate way to do it is just have her do what captive people have traditionally done in fiction: fight and escape during being moved. That stormtrooper standing guard could have easily been directed to move her to a different location.
Absent that? Maybe at least have her be very visibly surprised at the technique working. (I can't wait for the Blu-Ray release so I'll be able to watch the film again to see what her reaction actually was.)
ultracal31
You don't get to bring friends.
I don't think all people need it
heliosRAzi
Banned
Whoops. Forgot say "some"
The prequels made people think that Jedis had to be trained from when they were babies at a school doing dumb stuff like this. Glad they just ignored that bullshit.
LegendofLex
Member
When Finn asks her how she escapes she gives a response that should satisfy you.
I think the bigger problem here is that people are trying to apply rational explanations to a story where a major virtue - indeed, the only virtue that matters, if you pay close attention to literally anything Yoda or Obi-Wan say in the OT and Maz's central piece of advice to Rey about using the Force - is faith.
Alright, fair.
Speaking of Rey's fighting style, her double sided stave makes me think that she'll eventually go double sided like Maul to make use of her experience wielding it.
The prequels made people think that Jedis had to be trained from when they were babies at a school doing dumb stuff like this. Glad they just ignored that bullshit.
Its established pretty clearly that the Skywalker clan is extra special. The Average force user does go to school to master their talents. I mean Luke even establishes a jedi academy to train students.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Casual acquaintance neighbors asked me if I'd seen Star Wars today and we chatted about it in the elevator. This movie's ubiquity has transcended to "how's the weather" small talk level.
The prequels made people think that Jedis had to be trained from when they were babies at a school doing dumb stuff like this. Glad they just ignored that bullshit.
That's canon. The prequels "made people believe" because those are canon events. You can try to ignore them if you want, but headcanon is completely meaningless.
True, but what Luke's training basically boils down to in the originals is learning to control his feelings and confronting Vader.
The prequels made people think that Jedis had to be trained from when they were babies at a school doing dumb stuff like this. Glad they just ignored that bullshit.
That's an accident waiting to happen. Kid on the right has his sabre pointing right at his/her face nearly. And the kid behind is going to decapitate him/her at that distance too.
LegendofLex
Member
The prequels actually never affirmatively establish that Jedi training is at all necessary to master the Force, just that it was the accepted practice for Jedi.
Indeed, throughout the entire series the biggest breakthroughs have always come from people who straight-up ignore the orthodoxy and do their own thing: see Qui-Gon stumbling on the secret of immortality, Luke giving up the idea of defeating Vader to redeem him instead, Rey using quiet meditation to overcome someone who literally just told her she needed training, etc.
Well, I never said they did. Just the standard Jedi procedure includes training the Padawans since 4-5 years old.
The prequels made people think that Jedis had to be trained from when they were babies at a school doing dumb stuff like this. Glad they just ignored that bullshit.
It's a stupid scene, but to play devil's advocate maybe the sabers were modified so that they had no cutting power, only beam deflection (for parry practice).
We definitely see her do more in TFA, and it does feel accelerated relative to ANH. I thought it was jarring until I compared just how fast Luke learns; he's basically told how to do two things in ANH, and he learns both instantly. (Lightsaber blocking while blinded, the "use the Force" shot at the end). So I don't think it's so much that Rey learns faster; she learned individual things just as fast as Luke did. Rather she had opportunity to learn more things courtesy of Kylo Ren, than Luke had opportunity to in ANH. In terms of total displays of power, she definitely out ahead, but the speed with which she picked up on them were about the same.
And I always assumed that the "too old" thing didn't have to do with the time needed to train so much as exposing older students to the mysteries of the force, due to the baggage they bring with them, puts them at much greater risk for falling to the Dark Side.
Digital-Hero
Member
Yet Obi-Wan would be considered the most successful Jedi after Yoda. Skywalkers can't get right.
LegendofLex
Member
All the person you were responding to was saying is that s/he is glad this film took a different route than the prequels as far as what it presumably takes for Jedi to get cozy with the Force.
Do we actually know how old were Luke's apprentices in the new Jedi academy?
Randolph Freelander
Member
2 were mere zygotes.
Even Yoda tries to use that excuse to Luke in Empire that he's too old.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'd say the Force is theoretically accessible to anyone. The Jedi are just a cult with a set of practices that standardizes training in the Force.
It's like yoga... you could learn it in a religion, you could learn it in a club, or you could learn it on your own if you were so inclined.
It's like yoga... you could learn it in a religion, you could learn it in a club, or you could learn it on your own if you were so inclined.
Powerful in the Force they will become.
That's why I would say if they weren't dead.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Those are too old.
If the thread is upsetting you it is probably best to hit the close button. There just opinions and discussions. I have no agenda. I like Rey's character and the actress played her well. She was just a little unsatisfactory. Some of my favourite characters are power fantasy type action heroes.
But there are bigger problems in this film than her character.
That's all characterisations and some internal conflict. She's not really that scared that she has to overcome it. She essentially the same character at the end of the film as the start.
Really? Luke has deep insecurities about himself and this stops him learning to trust in himself (the Force). He doesn't overcome it until he turns off the targeting computer at the end of film and it continues on into ESB then he is training with Yoda.
Anakin doesn't get a character arc until the second movie in the prequels when he starts getting corrupted. He's only a side character in The Phantom Menace.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Stricken down, they are more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Nah, I think that would have fit just fine. After hearing more people's opinions about this movie, I'm beginning to feel that it should have been more overtly shown that Kylo Ren was fucking with Finn and Rey.
I think this also ties into the film needing to be more explicit and clear about, (for the lack of a better term) "power levels". It shows Kylo Ren being a total monstrous badass in the opening shot. And while over the course of the movie, the movie drops hints that Kylo isn't actually as "with it" as initially thought, it was still jarring to a lot of people that he "somehow" gets owned by 2 noobs in the end fight. Sure, you can always say that these people weren't paying attention, but when there are that many audience members who didn't understand, I mean, that's saying something about how accessible the writing was at conveying the proper information to the general audience.
It's not. Midiclorians breh.
PatThePassive
Member
Money on one of them was reys older sibling and was killed by ren then rey has to fight the urge to kill him and fall to the dark side just like luke.
LegendofLex
Member
FTFY
If you want to nitpick, do it with the "minutes" line. People in a distant galaxy shouldn't really talk about time in Earth terms. Minute comes from hour and hour comes from the angular measure of the 24 hour sun cycle we have on Earth.
Ragnorok64
Member
They are training sabers, but I guess since that isn't directly stated in the movie people won't accept it and prefer the narrative that the Jedi are putting ultimate cutting weapon in trainee children's hands.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The Librarian
Banned
Nicely done.
obijkenobi
Member
Part of my head canon regarding that nonsense was that the training was Force and culture related. E.g. the Jedi in the prequels were peace keepers of an entire galaxy and there were only like 10k of them.
If you come from a backwater planet like Tatooine and become a Jedi at like 18, you aint going to know shit about negotiating treaties, battle tactics, Jedi history/procedure etc.
So yeah, they would wade you into training with the force, but you would also spend a ton of time learning about culture, politics and science.
PatThePassive
Member
Is the earth even in the same universe as star wars? if not there should be no people either!
I like this explanation.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Universe? Yes. Just not the same galaxy. That one is far, far away.
That's pretty good. I'm gunna steal that for my own head canon.
The prequels made people think that Jedis had to be trained from when they were babies at a school doing dumb stuff like this. Glad they just ignored that bullshit.
jedi baby day care.
They went back to the OT explanation of the force. No mention of midichlorians.
OricWindstar
Member
That one.
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