Support NeoGAF

[JimmyRustler]

Well. 1) she's not, so there's that. And 2) there's the whole angle of the first female lead in Star Wars getting criticized in ways Luke (for example) was not, and people having to ignore parts of the film or apply double standards in order to make the argument. But for me, 1) is sufficient.

I find it funny that this issue is critized left and right (I've seen it here on GAF, there was even a thread only about this, I've seen it in comments on both Facebook and Youtube and I've seen it being criticized on big websites ) and yet people come and here and treat it like it's a none issue and more or less imply that everyone who brings it up is just hating because a women is the lead now. I don't get it....

Now, I did make my own dots here and am happy with it now but still fully understand that many people are not happy with the exposition in this movie. And no, I don't think everyone is complaining because the lead is now female.

 

[Blader]

Luke becomes an expert pilot with little to no experience on that ship or any indication he has piloted a similar one. Single handily brings down the death star without looking and the magical force helping him.

The groundwork for his so called advancement in skill is absent(in the case of being an expertly skilled marksman taking out platoons of stormtroopers) or poorly developed(magically being able to block lasers blindfolded or shooting rats with a farmer ship to being an expert pilot of a new ship) somehow translates to expert level feats of skill only days later.

Plus, Luke doesnt fail. Not meaningfully. Not in ANH.

The biggest example of Luke's OPness in that movie is right toward the end, just before Han intervenes.

We see Vader lock on to Luke's X-wing.

And fires!

Then...nothing?

Nothing happens.

And then the Falcon shows up.

But what the hell happened to Vader's first shot? Did he completely miss? I never understood that.

 

[Dead]

Please, PLEASE show me Luke and Anakins flaws in A New Hope and The Phantom Menace.

the acting?

 

[Vyer]

Resisting and turning around a mind probe doesn't really equate into being able to dominate mind a few mind a few moments later. What she did was on a level unheard of in the movies. Previously we've seen trained Jedi implant suggestions in someone's mind be she straight up makes someone do something the were specifically resolved not to do.

I mean, it's kind of hard to say since it's not like we'll ever have experience with the Force. But I don't think, if the mind trick is implanting into someone's mind, that learning how to open that mind up to probe into it really is all that far away.

Mostly the point was that the movie very deliberately made that connection in those scenes so I don't think it was supposed to be pulled 'from nowhere'.

 

[Ragnorok64]

The biggest example of Luke's OPness in that movie is right toward the end, just before Han intervenes.

We see Vader lock on to Luke's X-wing.

And fires!

Then...nothing?

Nothing happens.

And then the Falcon shows up.

But what the hell happened to Vader's first shot? Did he completely miss? I never understood that.

If I recall correctly, where his shots tracking up towards Luke at the time Han blewup Vader's wingmate?

 

[DragonSworne]

Resisting and turning around a mind probe doesn't really equate into being able to dominate mind a few mind a few moments later. What she did was on a level unheard of in the movies. Previously we've seen trained Jedi implant suggestions in someone's mind be she straight up makes someone do something the were specifically resolved not to do.

Wrong. Why are people so hung up on the Jedi mind trick? It's a low level skill that all force users we've seen use. There has been no indication in the movies that it is hard to perform.

 

[Blader]

If I recall correctly, where his shots tracking up towards Luke at the time Han blewup Vader's wingmate?

He's tracking up his sights, but then we hear the lock on noise, Vader says "I have you now" and fires. We see the TIE Fighter shoot...nothing happens...and then the Falcon intervenes.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Dark side? I don't see that at all. She had such a look of calmness come over her at that moment, total serenity, and then she unloaded.

Also, I grit my teeth when I'm in the gym. That isn't rage, that's determination, because I'm doing something hard.

She had a look of calmness when establishing that connection, but when she comes out swinging, she comes out hard. I've boarded similar sequences with a character taking a moment, turning inward, opening their eyes, then exploding a furious combo that doesn't stop. It makes for a cool beat to have that contrast.

Also the way it's filmed, again, emphasizes her aggression with every hit. She's hitting him while he's stumbling, she's looking super fucking pissed. There's a difference between shots to emphasize effort or to express anger. None of this to make her look heroic.

Plus, people posted scans of the novelization which seem to have confirmed my theory.

Is Poe the new Wedge?

Wedge grew into being this badass confident pilot in one of the least intrusive arcs of character development over three movies.

Poe is already the coolest motherfucker in space.

 

[Ophelion]

The biggest example of Luke's OPness in that movie is right toward the end, just before Han intervenes.

We see Vader lock on to Luke's X-wing.

And fires!

Then...nothing?

Nothing happens.

And then the Falcon shows up.

But what the hell happened to Vader's first shot? Did he completely miss? I never understood that.

Luke probably just froze the laser with the force. That's what Obi-Wan is actually talking about when he says, "Use the Force, Luke!"

We've been wrong all these years! Luke taught that trick to Kylo!

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Wrong. Why are people so hung up on the Jedi mind trick? It's a low level skill that all force users we've seen use. There has been no indication in the movies that it is hard to perform.

The Jedi Mind Trick is easy, provided it has been shown to you before and you've had some training. If a person who is Force sensitive hasn't seen it done before, and has no training with the Force, it isn't something that they would probably know anything about.

 

[the black pearl]

Wrong. Why are people so hung up on the Jedi mind trick? It's a low level skill that all force users we've seen use. There has been no indication in the movies that it is hard to perform.

Yeah, Padawan's could do it before they left the temple. But thats a bit different than doing it a day after you just learned the jedi aren't a fairy tail.

She's kind of the Ender Wiggin of Star Wars universe. She has flaws, sure, but my general belief in her ability came pretty easy. Which is okay.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

She wouldn't have killed Kylo.

In the heat of the moment like that? You better damn well believe they were trying to kill each other. She was trying to kill him for no other reason than killing him would stop him from killing her. She would have regretted dealing a fatal blow after the fact but to pretend they were fighting to injure but somehow not kill is silly.

 

[PatThePassive]

The scene were Poe and the rebels fly in when fin and crew are fighting on the ground blew Lucas's multiple battles at one time idea the fuck up.

Fin captured, X wings are blazing toward them cuts to Poes perceptive, dogfight begins, fin breaks free starts fighting again and then it happens.

Its like a perfect split shot following fin in the bottom half running through the battlefield while Poe in the top half is killing it with the camera following Poe in the sky around fin.

That scene was by far the best part of the film for me.

 

[DragonSworne]

The Jedi Mind Trick is easy, provided it has been shown to you before and you've had some training. If a person who is Force sensitive hasn't seen it done before, and has no training with the Force, it isn't something that they would probably know anything about.

Why wouldn't Rey know anything about the Jedi Mind trick? She clearly knows about Jedis and from the previous movies, the Jedi mind trick is alluded to being common knowledge.

Why would someone who knows about Luke Skywalker and the Jedis not know about the Jedi Mind trick and other legendary skills they have?

If you were locked up and out of options to escape, attempting the Jedi mind trick regardless of being trained in it seems like a no brainer. I would question why she didn't use her force powers to espace if she found another way to leave.

 

[Kinokou]

"Huge"? You've got to be kidding me. Are you seriously nit-picking over that?

Some of the complaints here just make me roll my eyes.

I'm kind of curious why you feel it's so important to establish that professional soldiers raised from birth get training in melee.

I thought it was basically pretty common information that all major professional armies train their soldiers in melee combat, even in our modern, gun-focused world where having people run at you with a sword is not especially common.

I suppose if people really don't know that, it could be worth establishing? Anyway, the stun baton is just there for crowd control, it wouldn't make sense for most of them to carry them during a raid You have one or two guys with cattle prods to corral any civilians you take into custody, but most of your troops need to have guns not only for the chance of resistance, but for sheer intimidation factor.

The use of the word "huge" is hyperbolic. It it was huge, I'd at least ponder if this movie was poorly plotted. I love picking apart fiction for analytical purposes, but this is too much.

I've only seen the movie twice, but I can't think of any other fight where a storm trooper was involved in melee to even a minimal degree, so they wouldn't need to use a riot stick.

Also, considering the uniform and segmented nature of the military, one can assume that if we see one soldier outfitted a particular way, then others are given similar weaponry and armor. Of course, there are exceptions for high ranking officials, like Captain Phasma. In the U.S. Army, for instance, generals can alter their appearance outside of the standard regulations. They've earned that right through advancement.

Why, exactly, is this bad storytelling?

I'll try to answer you all in bulk here but most importantly why do I care? Because of the "Is Rey a Mary Sue thread" that's why. Because to me it seems like we still have a situation where people are being fine with Luke/Ren/Kylo doing stuff but with Rey it is questioned.

Yes they say Finn is trained from childhood, but at least to me a lot of other moments in the story seems to undermine his competences:

Finn can't pilot
Finn hasn't used ship canons before
He was in sanitation
He had his first real combat situation on Jakku
When not having a weapon he was desperate for a blaster
And last, there is no evidence of any other stormtrooper having these riot sticks which make me say that it was pulled out of TR-8R's ass just because it would be cool.

I'm just not convinced that Finn is trained for anything but using blasters and following orders.

How come I would call it bad story telling? Because so many people are talking about things having to be properly established or at lest for shadowed and because in movies we have the saying "show, don't tell"

We are told Finn is a trained solider, the above showing working against that. We are shown Rey beating up some thugs with her staff. Which one would be more believable to handle a light saber?

To me it is Rey, because I am shown that she is accustomed to whacking at people to keep her self safe as opposed Finn running with his tail between his legs from his first combat.

I forgot to quote the user who said it, but outfitting some more stormtroppers and Finn with the riot stick at the village would have solved the entire issue.

Also, maybe calling it huge is hyperbolic but I find it to be a big oversight and poorly done to have just a single riot stick on screen for the entire film.

I don't think it's exactly bad storytelling, but just another thing Abrams thought looked cool (and it totally was) that raises some cool ideas. "The Stormtroopers have been trained to fight against lightsabers. That's awesome!" Indeed it is, voicei n my head. But once you only see TR-8R with the device, that justification breaks down and thus the world. Find too many holes in the established world and it all comes crashing down. Not that this happened, though.

Well put.

Also a short list of other stuff that bothers me on a similar level (Edit: not similar actually, I think these would be my real story nitpicks?):

The lack of information on the New Republic
That Rey hates thieves to the point she would charge at one without any provocation
That Rey sides with the Rebels for no reason at all
Not being able to find Luke with BB-8's map alone

 

[Ragnorok64]

Wrong. Why are people so hung up on the Jedi mind trick? It's a low level skill that all force users we've seen use. There has been no indication in the movies that it is hard to perform.

We've seen Qui-gon as a master use it.

We've seen Obi Wan as a master use it.

We've seen Luke as a trained knight use it.

How is it "a low level skill that all force users we've seen use"

Plus what she did goes beyond a trick, she straight up overwrote her will onto the trooper's.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Why wouldn't Rey know anything about the Jedi Mind trick? She clearly knows about Jedis, from the previous movies, the Jedi mind trick is alluded to being common knowledge.

Why would someone who knows about Luke Skywalker and the Jedis not know about the Jedi Mind trick and other legendary skills they have?

She has never met a Jedi. She hasn't seen one in action. In fact, they are seen as mythical beings at this stage of the movies. Han has to tell her that its all real. Even if she had heard somewhere that Jedi had the ability to control another person's mind, making the leap to being able to do it herself seems like a stretch, provided she is completely untrained.

As I said in previous posts though, I feel like she's had at least a bit of training already, but was hidden on Jakku to keep her safe.

 

[LegendofLex]

None of those are character flaws, except maybe the bolded. She has very little in the way of charactger flaws and zero character growth. She does gain super powers by the end of the movie, but her character arc is completely flat.

Luke and Anakin have deep flaws that effect the plot.

- She's abrasive toward and distant from most of the people she meets, until BB-8 shows up and breaks down her defenses and Finn shows up and the two are forced to work together to survive. By the end of the film, she's able to openly call Finn a friend and has let down her defenses enough to give him a fucking hug, which is a pretty sharp departure from slapping him in the face with a stick the first time she met him. She's gone from a loner who doesn't care about anyone but her missing family to a member of the Force family who's willing to accept new ties and bonds even if it means missing out on the old ones.

- She's straight-up afraid of actually getting involved in the fight against the First Order/taking up the lightsaber/leaving her only hope of seeing her family again behind. It's only once she - like Finn - realizes she can't run anymore that she gets involved. This is actually a bigger character flaw than Luke faced in the same kind of situation, since he was only hesitant to leave Tatooine because he didn't want to disappoint his uncle. (That is, he was super eager to leave and expressed as much aloud but felt guilty about it because he had an existing obligation - which is not a character flaw!) It takes Rey until the midpoint in the film to even question the idea that she should abandon her fear of being away from Jakku and until the very very end to pick up the lightsaber; Luke already has accepted the lightsaber by the end of the first act.

- She's hasty and cocksure, which is what gets her into trouble on both Han's freighter and on Takodana. This is a character flaw that was also shared by Luke, though it never actually got him into any trouble until ESB.

I love the Rey character, though I am somewhat critical of her speed of doing certain Force things. It's different than Luke in one major regard: Luke did have Obi-Wan tutoring him while he was learning to use the lightsaber, and even after Obi-Wan died during the trench run. He had the advantage of at least seeing Obi-Wan perform the jedi mind trick, just as an example, and then he was able to ask about it. Rey did these things with no (as yet revealed) prior training or exposure. It's different.

She comments on having heard stories about Luke Skywalker/the Jedi on Jakku, so she's had exposure to what Jedi are supposedly able to do.

One of the themes of the film seems to be that the Force's guidance > training. I mean, her big moment was when Kylo Ren told her "you need a teacher; I can show you the ways of the Force" and her decision to center herself in the Force allows her to overpower him literally right after he said she needed instruction, which is a pretty big slap in the face to the idea that Jedi need training at all to be powerful.

The two things Luke does using the Force in ANH are both done with relatively minimalistic teaching. That is:

- he blocks the remote's lasers by "letting go of his conscious self and acting on instinct." (Literally the opposite of something that requires training!)
- he "uses the Force, Luke" to make the Death Star killing blow shot

There's not much that's going on there that can't be applied wholesale to anything Rey did or was told during TFA.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

The Jedi Mind Trick is easy, provided it has been shown to you before and you've had some training. If a person who is Force sensitive hasn't seen it done before, and has no training with the Force, it isn't something that they would probably know anything about.

What about someone who has heard stories about the Jedi (so she knows it's possible now that she knows the Jedi are actually real), and the fact that she prevented a total mind rape, by being Forced to use the force to survive.
There's no better, no faster way to learn than when your life is on the line


Having just used it to fight off Kylo, she uses it right way (since the sensation is still fresh in her mind) and she is able to pull off the mind trick after a couple of failed attempts by realizing she needed to stay calm and focused.

 

[PatThePassive]

In the heat of the moment like that? You better damn well believe they were trying to kill each other. She was trying to kill him for no other reason than killing him would stop him from killing her. She would have regretted dealing a fatal blow after the fact but to pretend they were fighting to injure but somehow not kill is silly.

Remember she pulled a luke and closed her eyes to see the winning attack. I think she was calm enough to not just kill him after she disarmed him. Before that yeah she was gonna cut his head off but after I dont really think so.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

And reinforced in Episode VI when Luke easily kicks the shit out of Vader, the chosen one Sith Lord, because he mentioned his sister.

I'm a bit late but Vader was going to lose that fight either way. On the way to the DS Luke says he can feel the conflict in Vader. From the throne room the Emporer's plan is get Luke to kill Vader and give into his dark side. Like tries to engage the Emporer 1st but Vader steps in and gets Luke to duel him knowing the Emporer would just kill him outright.

Vader's play during the final duel is to set Luke up as the apprentice of the Emporer by sacrificing himself in the duel.

 

[JimmyRustler]

What about someone who has heard stories about the Jedi (so she knows it's possible now that she knows the Jedi are actually real), and the fact that she prevented a total mind rape, by being Forced to use the force to survive.

Having just used it to fight off Kylo, she uses it right way (since the sensation is still fresh in her mind) and she is able to pull off the mind trick after a couple of failed attempts by realizing she needed to stay calm and focused.

I think that, putting the flashback into the equation here, it'll probably come out that she was a Jedi Padawan in one of Luke's schools when she was a kid and then forgot about that time for some reason. That's probably why this stuff come back to her during this movie.

 

[The Librarian]

In the heat of the moment like that? You better damn well believe they were trying to kill each other. She was trying to kill him for no other reason than killing him would stop him from killing her. She would have regretted dealing a fatal blow after the fact but to pretend they were fighting to injure but somehow not kill is silly.

Kylo was trying to kill Rey because Snoke told him to bring her alive?

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

What about someone who has heard stories about the Jedi (so she knows it's possible now that she knows the Jedi are actually real), and the fact that she prevented a total mind rape, by being Forced to use the force to survive.

Having just used it to fight off Kylo, she uses it right way (since the sensation is still fresh in her mind) and she is able to pull off the mind trick after a couple of failed attempts by realizing she needed to stay calm and focused.

I guess that's all we have to hang our hats on for now, at least until more of Rey's background is revealed. Like I said above however, it just seems like a major leap to be able to pull that off with no training, and having just heard about Jedi and their capabilities in the past. Which is why I suspect she has had some level of training already, but just doesn't remember it or had her mind wiped to protect her.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Remember she pulled a luke and closed her eyes to see the winning attack. I think she was calm enough to not just kill him after she disarmed him. Before that yeah she was gonna cut his head off but after I dont really think so.

I would have liked to see how she reacted after knocking him down and he lost his saber but unfortunately the movie decided to open that gap between right then and conveniently prevent a final confrontation. Sigh.

But yeah, during the fight it was to the death. After disarming? Who knows. She just saw him murder his own father. She would have been plenty justified in executing him on the spot for that alone.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

I think that, putting the flashback into the equation here, it'll probably come out that she was a Jedi Padawan in one of Luke's schools when she was a kid and then forgot about that time for some reason. That's probably why this stuff come back to her during this movie.

Exactly, we don't know.. but what is shown in this movie isn't hard to follow if you give it a second look.

 

[Johndoey]

Poe is Porkins

Damn son that's cold.

 

[Kitschkraft]

In the heat of the moment like that? You better damn well believe they were trying to kill each other. She was trying to kill him for no other reason than killing him would stop him from killing her. She would have regretted dealing a fatal blow after the fact but to pretend they were fighting to injure but somehow not kill is silly.

The book says that she actively holds back from killing him.

There are discrepancies between the book/movie, and the movie controls of course, but I think it's safe to assume that she didn't want to kill there.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

All of my criticisms about TFA led me to viewing this as the Young Adult franchise that it is and I've now let go of all my gripes.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Kylo was trying to kill Rey because Snoke told him to bring her alive?

He wasn't exactly in control of himself at that point. If he really wanted her alive, he could have just Force Pushed her into another tree and took her while she was unconscious. He was pissed so he went at her with lightsaber instead.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

I haven't seen the movie in years, but for those of you mentioning Vader's shot not being registered, do you think he purposely made it seem as if he was going to shoot but hesitated to do so because he knew who Luke was.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The book says that she actively holds back from killing him.

There are discrepancies between the book/movie, and the movie controls of course, but I think it's safe to assume that she didn't want to kill there.

All this damn supplemental material. Well I'm not really planning on reading the book so I'll take your word for it.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

She comments on having heard stories about Luke Skywalker/the Jedi on Jakku, so she's had exposure to what Jedi are supposedly able to do.

I've heard stories of people doing lots of things. Don't ask me to do many of them, it would turn out badly. I guess what folks like me reject and folks like you do not -- and this disagreement is perfectly fine! -- is the notion that hearing about it is enough. Just try it, it might work! Try what, exactly? Someone might instead say she learned all she needed to know when Kylo Ren tapped into her mind and she fought back, but really? I reject that, as well. I can get a computer virus and eliminate it, but that doesn't prepare me to introduce one to your machine.

Surely, it has to be more than just saying something and hoping it hits the other party where it needs to in that portion of the mind that controls your will. How do you see that portion of the mind? How do you reach out with the force and get into it? How do you bend it to your will?

That said, I'm also one who believes that we'll find out she has had prior training but is not aware of it. Or maybe she's just really talented. Either way.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Exactly, we don't know.. but what is shown in this movie isn't hard to follow if you give it a second look.

Well, the movie does give you a hard time to understand it. Because what I just said would explain a lot if not everything, however it is never mentioned in the movie or anything. She never says that she doesn't remember what happened before she ended up on Jakku but it strongly seems that way. And I'm still not getting smart from that flashback. Was that her own or was that a memory of Luke? It's so weird. I don't understand why they made is difficult to understand. It could have been so easy.

The more I think about it, the more I think that the production of this movie was extremely rushed.

 

[BocoDragon]

All of my criticisms about TFA led me to viewing this as the Young Adult franchise that it is and I've now let go of all my gripes.

I can relate to that. That's what it will become under Disney, anyway.

It's always been youth-oriented but now it seems to even more slot into the millennium-era YA concept.

 

[Mighty Chin]

Wow some people are really trying to make people hate this movie. What movie could ever hold up to such scrutiny.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Rey and Finn should've been one character, a black female Force sensitive Stormtrooper who should've been trained by the giant Snoke (the Choke), but after a run-in with a jerk smuggler with a heart of gold Han Solo, he leans her to the Light side of the Force.

That's my fanfiction. And she'll be named Merry Soo.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

In the heat of the moment like that? You better damn well believe they were trying to kill each other. She was trying to kill him for no other reason than killing him would stop him from killing her. She would have regretted dealing a fatal blow after the fact but to pretend they were fighting to injure but somehow not kill is silly.

He wasn't trying to kill her, because he tells her he wants to teach her in the ways of the Force.

She closes her eyes to overcome her fear and fight like she normally does, while Kylo waits for her answer.

 

[Kor of Memory]

I've heard stories of people doing lots of things. Don't ask me to do many of them, it would turn out badly. I guess what folks like me reject and folks like you do not -- and this disagreement is perfectly fine! -- is the notion that hearing about it is enough. Just try it, it might work! Try what, exactly? Someone might instead say she learned all she needed to know when Kylo Ren tapped into her mind and she fought back, but really? I reject that, as well. I can get a computer virus and eliminate it, but that doesn't prepare me to introduce one to your machine.

Surely, it has to be more than just saying something and hoping it hits the other party where it needs to in that portion of the mind that controls your will.

That said, I'm also one who believes that we'll find out she has had prior training but is not aware of it. Or maybe she's just really talented. Either way.

So when you were a kid and saw star wars for the first time, you didn't try to Jedi Mind trick your brother/sister or mom/dad? Maybe a teacher?

If I could prove to you, or anyone else here, right now that the Force was real... and I mean undeniable proof... What's the first thing you'd try to do with it?

Probably try to use some of that stuff that you've seen or heard about in stories, right?

 

[Neonsands]

So, I just got back from seeing it for the first time. My brother has been in this thread since opening day and doing his best not to spoil it for me, but i've picked up obscure pieces of theory.

Anyways, I really enjoyed it. It was fun.

The only real problems I had were minor things that just don't get touched on, and rightfully so:

1. When Starkiller basically implodes and becomes a sun, isn't that like really really bad for that galaxy. I mean, everything that was revolving around one spot just got forcibly moved off course to another spot some distance away. Wouldn't that have some kind of effect on the planets?

I mean, I get that planets don't need to orbit a star, but suddenly removing the gravitational pull and then suddenly bringing it back up in a different spot. That can't be good.

2. Also, the whole scene with Luke just overlooking a cliff. Does he just like do that all day? Where does he get his food? Where does he sleep? How does he combat the weather? Did he take up fishing to pass the time? Does he use the force to pull fish out of the ocean (whatever the great expanse of water is)?

I mean, he's been there a real long time, right?


Other than all this, I didn't have many issues. I definitely see the connections to A New Hope, but it was still really good on its own. Rey and Finn are great, and I look forward to seeing more of them.

Oh, I also was thinking how funny the interrogation scene between Kylo Ren and Rey would be if they removed the force sound effects. Just silence, some grunts, and both of them staring at each other grimacing without saying anything for a good while.

 

[LegendofLex]

I've heard stories of people doing lots of things. Don't ask me to do many of them, it would turn out badly. I guess what folks like me reject and folks like you do not -- and this disagreement is perfectly fine! -- is the notion that hearing about it is enough. Just try it, it might work! Try what, exactly? Someone might instead say she learned all she needed to know when Kylo Ren tapped into her mind and she fought back, but really? I reject that, as well. I can get a computer virus and eliminate it, but that doesn't prepare me to introduce one to your machine.

Surely, it has to be more than just saying something and hoping it hits the other party where it needs to in that portion of the mind that controls your will.

That said, I'm also one who believes that we'll find out she has had prior training but is not aware of it. Or maybe she's just really talented. Either way.

There are two really great axioms from Episode V that stick out to me:

Yoda: Do, or do not. There is no try.

Luke: I don't believe it.

Yoda: That is why you fail.

2. Also, the whole scene with Luke just overlooking a cliff. Does he just like do that all day? Where does he get his food? Where does he sleep?

On my third viewing, I noticed that Rey finds what appears to be a small campsite complete with a small portable stove shortly before she finds Luke.

 

[Ishida]

Wow some people are really trying to make people hate this movie. What movie could ever hold up to such scrutiny.

Now you understand how I see the people who actively try to make others hate/avoid the prequels.

 

[Raven117]

My money (regardless of the Mary Sue concept) is that there will be some serious character development for Rey in the next movie. I think they set the stage to see some real change with her character (I mean, I hope they do...there is a lot there to work with and Ridley seems like a good enough actor to pull it off).

I think we see Rey's struggle with who she is (whomever that is...) and her rise as a hero mirror that with Rylo's fall...

IMO, everything is in place for VIII to be the best Star Wars since Empire Strikes Back. Maybe even better (because we have more relatable villain in Rylo than we did from the intergalactic bad-ass of Vader).

 

[rokkerkory]

Luke is now a grand master jedi which means he no longer needs 'food'... The force is enough.

 

[The Librarian]

He wasn't exactly in control of himself at that point. If he really wanted her alive, he could have just Force Pushed her into another tree and took her while she was unconscious. He was pissed so he went at her with lightsaber instead.

Think you're reaaaallly misreading the whole fight.

 

[heliosRAzi]

I haven't seen the movie in years, but for those of you mentioning Vader's shot not being registered, do you think he purposely made it seem as if he was going to shoot but hesitated to do so because he knew who Luke was.

I don't think so. When Vader shot down Biggy Smalls, his shot was tracking up. The same shot was used a couple of times in fact. It's just that when it came to Luke, we didn't see the tracking.

 

[Ophelion]

1. When Starkiller basically implodes and becomes a sun, isn't that like really really bad for that galaxy. I mean, everything that was revolving around one spot just got forcibly moved off course to another spot some distance away. Wouldn't that have some kind of effect on the planets?

To say nothing of fucking up star charts for everyone. It aint like dusting crops. One small mistake and you find yourself caught in the gravity well of a star that isn't supposed to fucking be there...they're going to have to fix those real quick.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

I don't think Thrawn would work in a Star Wars movie.

The problem with Thrawn is that he's not really that evil of a guy. He's just a guy that happens to be working for the Empire and is really, really good. I don't think they are really interested in having that kind of character in the movies. They have to be dark vs light, good vs evil etc. It would make a nice change of pace but I don't see it happening any time soon.

Yeah, that's really what I liked about Thrawn and the inclusion of Snoke and Kylo Ren in TFA already diminishes the possibility of a non force user like Thrawn being the main antagonist. So even if they toss in Thrawn or some character that's basically Thrawn in everything but name, he'd likely still be just a second tier villain working for Snoke and company. I guess we'll see where they go with Kylo Ren and Snoke but I can't help but feel a little disappointed that its just another pair of dark jedi pulling all the strings on the Empire/First Order side of things, as opposed to somebody like Thrawn who is basically just a normal alien dude that's just a fantastic military mind.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

I haven't seen the movie in years, but for those of you mentioning Vader's shot not being registered, do you think he purposely made it seem as if he was going to shoot but hesitated to do so because he knew who Luke was.

He only discovered who Luke was after the destruction of the Death Star, courtesy of the one and only Boba Fett.

 

[the black pearl]

Okay, about Luke also being a Mary Sue: I'll admit I hadn't thought of him blowing up the deathstar without the computer. I always looked at that as more of deus ex machina than an example of Luke's being adept in the force, but that is a good point.