Lee Chaolan
Member
Haha, so this. Something about that Green one is just more badass. Maybe it's playing Battlefront and just mauling people as Luke with it.
Although, it'll be interesting what's ahead, gonna be hard to wait til next year.
Star Wars VII doesn't respect the original trilogy (spoilers)
- Thread starter PerezDeCorcho
- Start date
- Status
Haha, so this. Something about that Green one is just more badass. Maybe it's playing Battlefront and just mauling people as Luke with it.
Although, it'll be interesting what's ahead, gonna be hard to wait til next year.
It didn't bother me in the first place. This isn't adversarial.
excelsiorlef
Member
Because why do I give a fuck what Hux secretly wants to do? And it's an assumption on your part that he isn't interested in Skywalker at all (though one I wouldn't discount). At the end of the day everything the FO does in this movie is due to Snoke wanting Skywalker or wanting to stop Leia from getting Skywalker. They failed and lost Starkiller ergo in the end they failed their goal in TFA. Which was my point in the first place.
If you don't disagree on any of that then why did you challenge me in the first place?
Snoke is the leader of the FO, if his main goal in this movie is Skywalker then so is the FO's
I mean this movie is literally all about building to that last shot with Rey and Luke.
borborygmus
Member
Yeah, didn't mean to sound adversarial at all. :] I edited in the "please get over" but I guess it then came off passive aggressive. Ah well.
ryutaro's mama
Member
What part of "they aren't aligned" was so hard to get? Somehow, that triggered you posting script fragments which did nothing to refute that position.
They spent 34 years building a death planet to kill Luke? Ok.
They were "terrified" of Luke rebuilding a Jedi Order...the same order Ren and his merry men slaughtered? Ok.
You may have interpreted them as being terrified but I didn't get that at all. I got that Snoke is just trying to clear the way. Remove any and all obstacles in his path to WhateverVille and the Huxster wanted to kill all his enemies in the process.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I don't really agree, but the whole plot is so bad beyond the new characters' personalities that it's hard to judge most of these points. It has enough respect to steal half the film's major plot points to fill in for coming up with many new ones. I agree I don't really like how Luke was handled at all, but it could end up interesting eventually.
Basically TFA was built as crowd-pleasing mouthwash, and that's fine provided they do something new and creative with the next two.
Basically TFA was built as crowd-pleasing mouthwash, and that's fine provided they do something new and creative with the next two.
Monocle
Member
Yep, exactly. TFA had the mighty task of washing away the prequels' stink while reintroducing the OT's very specific aesthetic and tone, all while setting up a new chapter of a wildly popular story that's practically pickled in the nostalgia of millions. The film is a spectacular success on all counts.
I find so much of the criticism leveled at TFA to be absolutely wrongheaded, as well as bizarrely unconcerned with or even ignorant of the reckless balancing act it had to pull off. That it turned out as well as it did, so that the worst one can say about it is "it's a little too much like this fucking amazing movie from my childhood" is a testament to every one of the exceptional people who busted their ass to save it from the thousands of ways it could have gone wrong.
Watch the prequels again, then TFA, and tell me it's not a gift. Go ahead and try.
<3
Sometimes I worry that Lindelof is secretly interesting. I've definitely been derisive about a lot of his work myself (I watched all of Season 1 of Leftovers and haaaated it). People really like Season 2 of Leftovers though, like maybe he's found his stride. I listened to an interesting podcast interview with him recently that challenged my prejudice about him. I'm half-curious to check out Leftovers 2 now but that guy's burned me so many times I can't decide if I'm willing to give his work the benefit of the doubt again.
excelsiorlef
Member
Again you keep exagerating what I'm saying.
So once again. In this movie all the decisions Snoke makes (ergo the FO) are about stopping Luke Skywalker from coming back or being found. They failed that ergo they failed their main goal of this movie. Snoke makes it clear that firing Starkiller on the Senate was not plan A.
I say Snoke is afraid of Luke because he's willing to blow up the entire Senate to stop Leia and essentially publicly declares war to do so. He also says that yes if Luke returns so will the Jedi and that must not happen.
If Hux cares or not is debateable but completely irrelevant to my original point before you even quoted me.
I want you to acknowledge that Snoke's main goal in this movie was all about Luke. If I shorten it to the FO's main goal it is because Snoke is the leader and thus his main goal is their main goal.
Ovek
7Member7
The only thing I don't like about the new film is Star Killer base, its lame and makes no sense even in the star wars universe.
The film would have been significantly better if the base was the first order construction yard pumping out star destroyers for a attack on the new republic. But no it was a lame space super gun McGuffin that let's face it has been massively over done in Star Wars.
The film would have been significantly better if the base was the first order construction yard pumping out star destroyers for a attack on the new republic. But no it was a lame space super gun McGuffin that let's face it has been massively over done in Star Wars.
excelsiorlef
Member
It was a unique twist in that it could wipe out systems from far away via hyperspace laser. It was a nuclear pearl harbour
ryutaro's mama
Member
Dude, at this point I don't even care anymore. Snoke is the afraid of Luke boss whose main goal is to kill Skywalker and/or Leia and Hux and his motivations don't matter.
Does that put a smile on your face? Will this ensure no more script postings?
excelsiorlef
Member
They basically don't as Hux couldnt fire without Snoke's permission. So his motivations are interesting but powerless. Got a badass speech out of it all though.
Sure I mean I only posted the script because frankly people seem to keep denying those scenes happened and usually saying I'm an idiot or silly for saying that Luke is important to the FO while doing so.
You nailed it.
There were so many ways in which I was worried about how the new movie could turn out, and somehow they managed to avoid essentially all of them. Not to say the film is flawless of course, but I'm honestly astounded at how well it turned out.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Snoke being afraid of Luke returning after getting all his students murdered is another reason to shake my head at this flick.
Palpatine wasn't fearful of shit. Dude was like, "The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi." When he did, he was like, "Fuck it, he will join us or die." (paraphrase).
No fucking way he blows up 5 planets in an effort to draw him out or whatever. Snoke is a coward it would seem by comparison.
#palpatine4lyfe
Palpatine wasn't fearful of shit. Dude was like, "The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi." When he did, he was like, "Fuck it, he will join us or die." (paraphrase).
No fucking way he blows up 5 planets in an effort to draw him out or whatever. Snoke is a coward it would seem by comparison.
#palpatine4lyfe
BreezyLimbo
Banned
What if Snoke was Anakin resurrected. He'd have reason to fear him.
ryutaro's mama
Member
They already slaughtered his attempts to bring back the Jedi...wait, did you say resurrected Anakin?
Ugh...
BreezyLimbo
Banned
They fucking better, considering that fleeing into exile when a pupil turns to the Dark Side is EXACTLY what Obi Wan and Yoda did.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Did you saw the facial scaring on snooke face? Well maybe Luke done that
So whatever happened to this Palpatine guy?
excelsiorlef
Member
Some idiot in a black robo suit threw him down a shaft.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Went out like a baws shocking the shit outta Luke Skywalker. Punk ass Ani had to come up from behind with the cheap shot.
Luke was about to be toast.
PdotMichael
Banned
PT and the new trilogy both suffer from that the OT is or more less a closed story and there isn't really a place for anything new.
PT suffers from being directed and written by Lucas and the fact that he wanted to make so many connection to the OT and its characters while ignoring the greater story and worldbuilding of the OT.
Force Awaken suffers from that happy ROTJ happened. The movie is so much closer to the setting of ESB and because of that I'm pretty excited to see the next movie in the next trilogy.
PT suffers from being directed and written by Lucas and the fact that he wanted to make so many connection to the OT and its characters while ignoring the greater story and worldbuilding of the OT.
Force Awaken suffers from that happy ROTJ happened. The movie is so much closer to the setting of ESB and because of that I'm pretty excited to see the next movie in the next trilogy.
Jurassic World was similiar, it was extremely close to the original(s) in a very superficial way but in a deeper, creative way they are both completely devoid of any originality or inspiredness that made their respective originals so successful.
And I say that as somebody who enjoyed both movies. They felt more like teasers to watch the originals again.
And I say that as somebody who enjoyed both movies. They felt more like teasers to watch the originals again.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
"This lightsaber is your life"
Also y'know possession of his father who he tried to save from death and failed, thought to be lost forever. I'm sure Jedi aren't meant to value material possessions but pretty sure Luke does in this case.
But really you seem to have an axe to grind.
Also y'know possession of his father who he tried to save from death and failed, thought to be lost forever. I'm sure Jedi aren't meant to value material possessions but pretty sure Luke does in this case.
But really you seem to have an axe to grind.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
beautiful
uncelestial
Member
Not really. In some hopelessly regressive "oldschool fan" circles and among "anti-SJW" MRA advocates, maybe, but generally people are happy and relieved with the quality of Ep 7.
uncelestial
Member
Zing!
As an aside: Organa always was a dumb name; it seems like the kind of name George "Sidious" Lucas would come up with after deciding that "Gaia Natura" just a little too on the nose, but headed in the right direction.
Blueboys1306
Banned
So when the fanfic that people had in their minds for the prequels wasn't met by some, George Lucas "raped" people's childhood. JJ does it and everything is ok???
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
I think it's supposed to act as a metaphor for the franchise itself. It's lost its way. The promises of greatness, the success, the memories... all squandered during the last 30 years. The prequel trilogy is nothing but an empty husk. Those who cling to its merits are vultures gnawing the bones of complete failure for any kind of sustenance. It all went to shit. What could have been some of the greatest films ever produced were left a promise unfulfilled.
The Force Awakens respects the trilogy more than any of the prequel movies but it also had the problem with following up "and they lived happily ever after" with reality: Luke has some heavy Sith in him, Han isn't going to be content with being a straight shooter and Leia is someone who inspires people in conflict not someone who leads in peace. Their little rebellion was bound to fail. We need Finn, Rey and Poe to bring about real change in the universe.
The Force Awakens respects the trilogy more than any of the prequel movies but it also had the problem with following up "and they lived happily ever after" with reality: Luke has some heavy Sith in him, Han isn't going to be content with being a straight shooter and Leia is someone who inspires people in conflict not someone who leads in peace. Their little rebellion was bound to fail. We need Finn, Rey and Poe to bring about real change in the universe.
They still have two more movies to tell this tale.
Also, it's foolish to think that things would turn out right in the end, as that was the one thing that had bothered me about 'Return of the Jedi.' The Galactic Empire wouldn't be sitting on their asses after their bigger, badder, super weapon went kablooey. If anything, TFU felt like a natural progression, and I can't wait to see what happens in the later movies.
Also, it's foolish to think that things would turn out right in the end, as that was the one thing that had bothered me about 'Return of the Jedi.' The Galactic Empire wouldn't be sitting on their asses after their bigger, badder, super weapon went kablooey. If anything, TFU felt like a natural progression, and I can't wait to see what happens in the later movies.
I really enjoyed TFA (seen it twice already), but those are complaints I had, as well.
The original trilogy basically meant nothing. The Empire is still around (and very well funded), and the Jedi are almost extinct.
heliosRAzi
Banned
You can't judge a movie until the next one comes out. It's only fair.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
It wasn't exactly just that the Jedi Order was destroyed the galaxy was under the entires control and palpatine was actively trying to hunt them down. The galaxy wouldn't have been half as dire if he killed Ren which he could easily do or at the very least take out snoke. The take starkiller was built and used a massive oversight on his part.
Really this entire plot hinges on every member of First order being incredibly I incompetant, If they used Star Killer to attack the rebel base from the begining that they obviously knew about the triology would be over already.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Yet strangely enough this "fan fiction" is far better than half the films Lucas was in charge of.
UnforgivenTwin
Member
I am so sick of people calling this movie fanfiction. The crap that was made after Jedi was the worst kind of fanfiction with 99% of it being utter garbage. We get that your still crying about Disney getting rid of it but it's time to put on your big boy pants and live with it.
Hellwarden
Member
I finished the TFA with a lot of question that the more I think about, the less satisfied with the movie I am.
1. Why is the republic apparently situated on planets that are right next to each other? The republic controls half the galaxy right? Why do we only really see the republic just before it's destroyed?
2. Why has no one in the resistance/republic heard about the superweapon? The thing is bigger than the death star. There are spies everywhere, apparently even in Maz's bar. How do you hide something that would take years to build like that without some info getting out?
3. Why did Poe stay behind and try to continue to fight in the first action scene? Why is Poe that fucking stupid? Furthermore, where was he after they crash landed? What was he doing? Did Poe bail out before Finn or vice versa? Is that why they couldn't find each other? If so, why not show us that?
4. How did Kylo catch up with Finn and Rey when they were running from the base? They had a huge head start, and Kylo was wounded?
5. Why did Snoke not finish Kylo's training? This could be answered in the sequel, but why would he put Kylo half in charge of the giant superweapon potentially unprepared?
6. Why does Leia not care about seeing her brother at the end? I get that Rey should probably be the first one to see him, but why does she actively not seem to care about going to see her brother?
7. Not really a problem, but fuck whoever decided to make Captain Phasma useless. Maybe making her being Boba Fett-esque was a joke, but no one was laughing at it.
And I know what some of you are thinking. You're looking at this list, and thinking, wow this guy must not be any fun at all.
I would be a lot more forgiving towards all these problems, if the movie was more original. I could probably find more problems if I went back to watch the original trilogy right now. Perhaps the biggest problem is I've grown older, maybe a bit more cynical too I'll admit, but watching this movie made me feel Star Wars hasn't changed at all. Some people may be happy about that. I wasn't.
1. Why is the republic apparently situated on planets that are right next to each other? The republic controls half the galaxy right? Why do we only really see the republic just before it's destroyed?
2. Why has no one in the resistance/republic heard about the superweapon? The thing is bigger than the death star. There are spies everywhere, apparently even in Maz's bar. How do you hide something that would take years to build like that without some info getting out?
3. Why did Poe stay behind and try to continue to fight in the first action scene? Why is Poe that fucking stupid? Furthermore, where was he after they crash landed? What was he doing? Did Poe bail out before Finn or vice versa? Is that why they couldn't find each other? If so, why not show us that?
4. How did Kylo catch up with Finn and Rey when they were running from the base? They had a huge head start, and Kylo was wounded?
5. Why did Snoke not finish Kylo's training? This could be answered in the sequel, but why would he put Kylo half in charge of the giant superweapon potentially unprepared?
6. Why does Leia not care about seeing her brother at the end? I get that Rey should probably be the first one to see him, but why does she actively not seem to care about going to see her brother?
7. Not really a problem, but fuck whoever decided to make Captain Phasma useless. Maybe making her being Boba Fett-esque was a joke, but no one was laughing at it.
And I know what some of you are thinking. You're looking at this list, and thinking, wow this guy must not be any fun at all.
You're probably right, but ignore that for a second.
I would be a lot more forgiving towards all these problems, if the movie was more original. I could probably find more problems if I went back to watch the original trilogy right now. Perhaps the biggest problem is I've grown older, maybe a bit more cynical too I'll admit, but watching this movie made me feel Star Wars hasn't changed at all. Some people may be happy about that. I wasn't.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
How do you know Luke gave up? We don't know what he's been doing since vanishing.
And it takes balls to write a script where everything went to shit after ROTJ.
I like balls.
And it takes balls to write a script where everything went to shit after ROTJ.
I like balls.
Skellig Gra
Member
Not really, ANH and ESB had flat out training scenes.
PdotMichael
Banned
We will never forget the incredible deep (dat silly helmet) and spritual (laser sabers are better than laser guns mate) training in ANH.
Yeah training sequences that can be reduced to "believe in the force" "the force flows trough a jedi"
So OP shares with us his crazy thoughts, trying to fill in the blank with his poor imagination and bad dialogues. It's sad to see that you can't understand a story and characters as simple as that. So, please, next time, don't create a thread because you have the imagination of a bad fan-fiction writer. You and you're over-nostalgic friends are annoying. ("episode IV and V are the true star wars, everything after that is shit and must be shit, it can't be otherwise!")
Gosh I wouldn't like to be you, asking foolish questions "Why has he done this and not that ?" "Why didn't they do that instead of this ?" "Why couldn't they know that ?" "Why have they made this choice ?" "Why do I need to have question to absolutely everything, including why is BB8 orange and why Kylo Ren has a lightsaber with 2 little red lights ? WHYYYYYY?" "Why can't I have all the answers about what happened between VI and VII in the first episode of the new trilogy ??"
You could do the same about every story every written, including the three first Star Wars.
Gosh I wouldn't like to be you, asking foolish questions "Why has he done this and not that ?" "Why didn't they do that instead of this ?" "Why couldn't they know that ?" "Why have they made this choice ?" "Why do I need to have question to absolutely everything, including why is BB8 orange and why Kylo Ren has a lightsaber with 2 little red lights ? WHYYYYYY?" "Why can't I have all the answers about what happened between VI and VII in the first episode of the new trilogy ??"
You could do the same about every story every written, including the three first Star Wars.
PdotMichael
Banned
It's kind of interesting how people complain how safe the movie is but then complain how the movie breaks up with so many fundamental elements of the original trilogy.
Hellwarden
Member
Is it wrong to be analytical over a movie? I agree with you to an extent, but I thought I explained it in my post. (Especially the bolded part.) Star Wars has always been dumb as a bag of rocks. Some people love it for being that stupid.
But The Force Awakens is being held up as one of the best movies of the year. People are just filling buckets with jizz over this movie. I don't think it's wrong to say "Hey you know, The Force Awakens is really fucking stupid. Maybe too stupid even for Star Wars."
That said, if you love The Force Awakens, keep on loving it. You're clearly the majority. But if you're really annoyed by petty criticisms, then maybe it's because you don't really like the movie as much as you think you did.
- Status