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[TheKaeptain]

1. She is TOO good. What development could possibly be left for her in the forthcoming films? She is already gifted with incredible powers and abilities. That is NOT an interesting protagonist, IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP3c1h8v2ZQ

Watch this. You see the last part? Imagine it upside down except at the end she goes back high.

 

[Loris146]

There's literally no way to definitively measure this. However:

- Rey actually has a harder time piloting her ship during her first (and only) real ship combat situation (so far) than Luke ever does at any point in Star Wars. Both of them pull off exactly one outrageous trick to win (Luke nailing the shot w/o a targeting computer; Rey putting the Falcon into a nosedive so Finn can make the final shot).
- Luke never attempts to use a mind trick during ANH or ESB, but we don't know if he could have if he'd tried. However, he does successfully deflect blaster fire on his second try, while unable to see.
- Likewise, Rey never attempts to deflect blaster fire, so we don't know how she'd fare if she tried. But it takes her three attempts to successfully pull off a mind trick, more tries than it took Luke to deflect the remote.
- Luke never demonstrates mind-reading abilities, but then Rey only is able to exhibit them by pushing back against Kylo, and it's strongly suggested that the process is open to being two-way by design ("It's okay, I feel it, too").
- Luke loses his first lightsaber duel against the most powerful Sith Lord in the known canon, while Rey wins hers against a physically, mentally, and symbolically wounded Kylo before he's completed his training. Again, not an even point of comparison.

Finally.

Anyway Vader would have owned Rey and Kylo at the same time even without using his lightsaber.

 

[Principate]

You didn't see him bleeding profusely and hitting himself constantly?



Yeah like I said, he ALMOST beat her. But again, was there anything that Rey did in that film that is outside the realm of a Force user's ability? Yoda talked about that shit back in ESB, but Luke was too reckless to listen to him.

The movie is called "The Force Awakens" for a reason bro.

Mortally Wounded, means mortally wounded, as in it was life threatening wound and he was about to die, The guy fought two lightsaber users ended up in a forest with no immediate support where a earth quake happened and will survive just fine. That is not a mortal wound that is a dead wound, nothing more.

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

So sad to see people downplaying Rey's strength and achievements. Between Rey and Furiosa, 2015 was an incredible year for strong female characters who kicked ass and relied on nobody to get the job done.

SMH.

 

[jett]

JJ needs to sit through the master works of david lean before ever trying to achieve anything of scope again.

claustrophobic, impatient and inconsequential.

Could he even sit through a David Lean movie? Nobody is running all the time. Shit's not exploding at a moment's notice. How would he cope?

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Obi-Wan doesn't either. Luke looks a bit depressed on the Falcon for about five seconds before he springs back into action, and stays that way for the rest of the film.

It still feels important to us cuz of that great John Williams cue, and how the movie slows down for a bit to show how big a loss this was. Han's mourning didn't come until waaay later, after we've seen the not-Death Star blow up(which we never cared too much about) and lightsaber battles and shit have happened and people are actually celebrating.

More importantly, Obi-Wan makes an open sacrifice to teach Luke about the power of the Force(which is in-line with his entire character purpose the whole movie), which directly ties into the big climax where Luke uses the Force to destroy the Death Star.

I don't feel anything about Han. He doesn't get any redemption, cuz he doesn't need it. He just seems kinda stupid. You kinda just wait for the inevitable to happen. Its a strong scene for Ren, but not Han.

Which again gets at the problem the film faced, that it basically has to make the OT 3 look weak in order to promote the new characters and their stories. And I get that. But I think it could have been better.

 

[Measley]

Well, yeah. You think Vader vs Luke in ESB was an even fight or something?

I'm not saying Rey is stronger than Luke at the end of ESB, but that she's the better melee fighter.

Well, it's established that she has significant melee skills due to her being a survivor on Jakku, so that makes sense.

 

[Snake]

It's bad that she with no jedi training whatsoever bested and has greater manipulation of the force than a dark side user that has been training for years. In any story, that would be poor storytelling.

The circumstances of her victory are in no way bad storytelling. This is fanboy power level bullshit trying to masquerade as criticism. The movie even goes completely out of its way to address this concept in advance, to give a good reason why she won to even the most obsessive fans out there. It practically takes your hand and tells you "it's okay, there's a good reason why he lost, it doesn't mean you have to feel your manhood is under attack or that Kylo Ren's skills were for naught." The fact that this wasn't enough is a testament to the resolve of a certain subset of fans to ignore the message of the film.

 

[Measley]

Mortally Wounded, means mortally wounded, as in it was life threatening wound and he was about to die, The guy fought two lightsaber users ended up in a forest with no immediate support where a earth quake happened and will survive just fine. That is not a mortal wound that is a dead wound, nothing more.

You do know that Ren is a force user right? He used that in order to not get blasted off the bridge when Chewie shot him with the bow, and was clearly continuing to use it to keep his guts from spilling everywhere. Throughout the entire film you saw guys in armor getting blasted back 20-30 feet from that weapon, but Kylo just takes it in the gut and barely moves an inch.

And yeah, he still fought two people, showcasing just how powerful he actually is.

 

[A Link to the Past]

What I'm really annoyed by is that people are willing to give a thumbs-up to Luke's asspull, but complain when Rey does it at the end. Cue the "but he's an amazing pilot, he used to bull's-eye Womp Rats in his T-16 back home!", and cue me saying "yeah, and Rey's primary weapon is a staff." Why is it so hard to believe that Rey could best Ren with a Force asspull, but not that Luke could nail a very difficult shot?

 

[rhino4evr]

I find it funny how so many have been heralding this film as a return to form for Star Wars. It's "recaptured the magic" as many love to say.

But in what way has it recaptured the magic? Visually? Sure! Creatively? Not even close.

With this analysis, I do not intend to nitpick endlessly about the many plot conveniences that the film utilizes, its striking similarities to A New Hope, or the empty shells that are its lead characters. Rather, I'd like to scrutinize the way the film handles its universe. How it treats returning characters and ideas like Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Leia, The Force, etc.

Also: I will be analyzing everything that occurs within the context of Episode VII alone. Perhaps some of these oddities will be explained in future Episodes. But that doesn't change the initial impression it left some of us with. It doesn't get a free pass just because it's Star Wars.

----------

Luke Skywalker:
By the end of Return of the Jedi, Luke has redeemed his father. He's completed his training and has become the last Jedi Knight. He must pass on what he has learned and he must restore all that has been lost at the hands of the evil Empire. We're left to imagine a future in which Luke builds a new Jedi Order and restores peace and justice to the galaxy.

In The Force Awakens, we learn that Luke has failed to continue this legacy. The Empire has returned in the form of 'The First Order' and is now continuing their campaign of destruction and terror. In response to this, Luke has "vanished".

He's given up on the Jedi after Kylo Ren's turn to the Dark Side. Perhaps he believes that the Jedi are simply not worth the trouble? So, Luke isolates himself from the rest of the galaxy. In doing this, the Jedi would also fade away from existence.

Is this really the Luke Skywalker we remember? Would Obi-Wan Kenobi or Yoda condone Luke's actions? I would hope not.

In other words: "Fuck it all", said Luke Skywalker.

Han Solo:
Galactic criminal turned General. A legend in every sense of the word. Must I really go on about this beloved character?

Fast forward to The Force Awakens, and Han has taken ten steps backward. He goes back to doing what he's "good at". He has undone all of his development from the original films and returns to a world of scum and villainy because his son succumbed to the Dark Side. Rather than pursue his son, he instead pursues his coveted ship, the Millennium Falcon, along with his drinking pal, Chewbacca.

In other words: "Fuck it all", said Han Solo.

Leia Organa:
Leia has been fighting the same war for thirty years and has failed to stop the Empire from re-emerging into a position of ridiculous, unparalleled power. In fact, they may be more powerful than ever, given that their new Death Star -cough- Starkiller Base can destroy a whole bunch of planets at once with the power of the sun! How did a crumbling Empire acquire the resources for such a project without being noticed? How could Leia fail to address the issue of Starkiller Base before its completion? Is it merely incompetence on her part as a leader?

The galaxy is now in greater danger than ever before. What has Leia been doing for the past three decades? What was the point of the whole war? Were Luke, Han, and Leia to weak to stop the Empire?

In other words: "Pass the blow", said Princess Leia.

The Force:
The Force is nothing more than a superpower, according to The Force Awakens. It is now something that can be learned without the rigid discipline of Yoda or Obi-Wan. Now, if you believe hard enough, you can do anything with the Force!

Examples: Rey using Jedi mind tricks on a stormtrooper. Rey 'resisting' Kylo Ren. Rey going as far as to Force-pull a lightsaber into her grasp.

Luke's Lightsaber:
This is the most idiotic attempt by the film to 'respect' the original trilogy. In all of Star Wars' cinematic history, lightsabers were mere tools to a Jedi. An elegant weapon and nothing more. But now, lightsabers are mystical entities. They can "call to you", not unlike how the One Ring calls to Frodo in 'The Lord of the Rings'.

During the film's closing, Rey even goes as far as to 'return' the weapon to its owner, Luke. For reasons that I cannot comprehend, this scene has a ceremonial undertone, when the reality is that Luke never saw the weapon as anything more than, well, a weapon.

But, in favor of pleasing the fans with nostalgic imagery, the film defies all previously established logic and paints the weapon as something sacred.

So much so, that this is the ending shot of the film.

In a way, I believe this closing scene is symbolic of what the film ultimately is. It's a big, $200 million dollar misunderstanding of its source material. The film expects its audience to be too caught up in the fact that it's Luke's first lightsaber to realize just how absurd the whole scenario is. You see, to the majority of the audience, the lightsaber very much has become a sacred sort of object. And now, the audience's mindset is bleeding into the film itself.

Originality
Star Wars (1977) is an incredibly original film when you think of it in context. Give George Lucas all the shit you want, but the man was a visionary. He had big ideas. Even the Prequel trilogy was born out of some kind of creative spark. The Clone Wars is a great fictional setting, and fits into the Star Wars universe very well. The execution within the films, however, was questionable.

I will not go as far as to call The Force Awakens a worse film than The Phantom Menace. While that film was too distant from what made the originals so beloved, The Force Awakens is ultimately too derivative. It falls on the other extreme end of the spectrum. It's too safe. It exploits the nostalgic times we live in and gives people exactly what they want, but nothing more than that. It's the frankenstein monster of Star Wars films.

-----------

Nothing has changed. The Rebels are still fighting the Empire. The Jedi are still on the brink of extinction. Our heroes accomplished nothing.

The Empire doesn't have to strike back because the Empire never left.

What was the fucking point?

Luke: we don't actually know what he's been doing. So that's all speculation. Also wasn't Yoda and in a sense Obi Wan in "hiding" as well. Luke is being hunted by the first order. Which may be another reason why he's trying to stay hidden.

Han: seems very apparent that the "loss" of their son to the darkside tore Leia and Han apart. Han is and always has been a "scoundrel" of sorts. I don't see him reliving his smuggler days that far fetched at all

Leia: once again we don't know what had occurred in the past 30+ years. It's always been a criticism that after Return, it seems unlikely that the Empire was completely finished. Sounds like things were ok for awhile and got worse. The galaxy is a big place...

The Force: I've always seen the force as a super power. So I'm not sure where this complaint comes from. Some people have the ability to connect to it, Others don't. Ray is a prodigy of the force, much like Luke and Vader. She could have been aware of her powers at a much younger age, but didn't understand them.

Lightsaber...ok, I can see the similarities to the "one ring" , but I think it may just show how strong Rey is with the force that she can see the future and past just by touching it. It's just a big obvious hint that she's a skywalker.

Originality: JJ had a very difficult job of rebooting a franchise while keeping hard core fans happy. I actually like the similarities to a new hope. I thought the characters and plot was different enough to not feel like I was being sold the same exact story. Overall I think he did a great job of nailing what most people loved about the original films while opening it up for a whole new generation of writers and directors. I get this complaint. I just don't care.

Are we done here?

 

[Anth0ny]

You're not wrong. But they had to continue the story somehow, right? If they "respected" the original trilogy then everything would be happy times forever.

 

[Kaze Kyou]

Man. I don't know if I'm "qualified" to have an opinion, but as a "casual Star Wars fan", I thought TFA was an excellent trip back to the universe. The prequel trilogy being better than TFA? Wanting George Lucas to direct Episode IX? TFA's bad treatment of the Star Wars universe?

What's next? Jar-Jar Binks was a more fleshed out character than Finn?

It sounds like a case of "JJ Abrams didn't create the fanfics I had in my head of the time after ROTJ and so it sucks". The OGs not having a happy life after the original trilogy? Which war in the history of ever had the winning side celebrating and living happily ever after?

Han going back to his old roots seems like his character - after the war, what was there left to do? He's not a politician, there weren't really many legit jobs and, given his history, it may have been hard for him to land a position anywhere without heavy scrutiny.

Luke saying "fuck all" after failing to establish a new Jedi Order is fair enough - the only source he can refer to are the ghosts of Obi-Wan, Yoda and perhaps other dead Jedis - I saw his "disappearance" as his way of trying to figure shit out and/or waiting for the right moment. In any case, we can't really assess the movie's treatment of Luke until at least after VIII and/or IX.

 

[Principate]

Dude was injured. Why is that hard for someone to comprehend? He got shot with a bowcaster, which is no joke.

He was injured but not injured enough prevent him from kicking her ass, pushing her to a ledge and where communing with the force literally saves her. It's not as if Kylo Ren himself doesn't fucking use the force as well.

There is no way you can paint that scene in a positive light. It's abject mediocrity at best.

 

[Enduin]

Most of these complaints don't really hold up to me. Either they're fundamental misunderstandings of the original films and/or characters or a product of this being just the first among 3 films with a whole lot of story left to tell.

The prequels ruined so much of the series, one of the major things being the Force. The OT was about as explicit as it could get without flat out saying it but being strong in the Force isn't so much a matter of training and spending years getting "stronger," rather it is a matter of belief and letting go of yourself and your hang ups and connecting with the world around you. Training sure helps with that, but it's not a requirement. Training also helps with containing your emotions and all that, but the raw potential is always there.

Rey and Luke succeeded when they did because they let go of their fears and disbelief. The fact that they were newbies didn't matter. Rey just happened to be less skeptical than Luke at times and had more cause to do so than he did at key moments in the first film. Even by RotJ Luke had only spent a very marginal amount of time training as a Jedi, let a lone with an actual Jedi master. Yet he bested Darth Vader in combat and technically defeated and stood up to/resisted the Emperor himself. The fact that he only had a handful of years as a Jedi under his belt, with only a few months of real training didn't matter. It was all about his own resolve and belief in the Force/his Father's goodness that allowed him to succeed.

The one thing the film did fail with rather badly was explaining the state of the Galaxy. They did a very poor job explaining just what the New Republic, Resistance and First Order were and how they related to one another on the galactic scale. Which kind of undermines a good deal of the film, but not terribly so. It would have made things a bit more weighty and understandable if they had been able to explain explicitly to the viewer that the NR and FO were separate governments within the galaxy that were at technical peace with one another and that the Resistance was a rogue splinter group within the NR that sought to fight and destroy the FO rather than try and live peacefully with them and weakly combat them through ineffective and naive diplomatic means.

Well they were following E4's story mold quite closely and there needed to be a mentor character dying in the death star prior to the heroes escaping. Han is played by Harrison Ford, who probably volunteered to get killed off so he didn't have to come back again later.

I am willing to bet a great deal that Harrison only signed on with the strict requirement that Han die in the film.

 

[btrboyev]

He was injured but not injured enough prevent him from kicking her ass, pushing her to a ledge and where communing with the force literally saves her. It's not as if Kylo Ren himself doesn't fucking use the force as well.

There is no way you can paint that scene in a positive light. It's abject mediocrity at best.

It's also at that point where Kylo isn't even trying to kill her. He's trying to turn her.

 

[MHWilliams]

Finally.

Anyway Vader would have owned Rey and Kylo at the same time even without using his lightsaber.

Yeeeeep.

From Star Wars: Rebels:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXoJeLDyVBY

And Kanan was in better shape than Kylo at the end of TFA.

 

[Principate]

You're not wrong. But they had to continue the story somehow, right? If they "respected" the original trilogy then everything would be happy times forever.

No it wouldn't they could have you know actually been mildly creative rather remix the previous trilogy. There's thousands of star wars fanfiction out there. it's not like they had nothing.

 

[Gravidee]

He was injured but not injured enough prevent him from kicking her ass, pushing her to a ledge and where communing with the force literally saves her. It's not as if Kylo Ren himself doesn't fucking use the force as well.

There is no way you can paint that scene in a positive light. It's abject mediocrity at best.

He was also emotionally unstable after killing his dad, and aside from the bowcaster, was injured by Finn as well.

 

[A Link to the Past]

He was injured but not injured enough prevent him from kicking her ass, pushing her to a ledge and where communing with the force literally saves her. It's not as if Kylo Ren himself doesn't fucking use the force as well.

There is no way you can paint that scene in a positive light. It's abject mediocrity at best.

You got a source on that? Or did you literally invent power levels for Kylo Ren and Rey and then account for the impact of Kylo's power level by Chewie's gun?

 

[jmdajr]

I am ok with ..you know what?

Shit happens. Life is a cycle of ups and downs.

 

[f0rk]

The Force Awakens is cinematic fan-fiction.

And half of this thread is new fan fiction trying to cover all the stuff the movie didn't adequately explain. There is a difference between not spoon feeding and not mentioning something at all.

Saying Poe is gay because he looks at Finn funny once is probably the funniest inference though.

 

[Slackbladder]

SNIP

Yeah. Pretty much my opinion. As much as I enjoyed the spectacle of the film it ultimately meant nothing to me. Maybe I'm just too old. Maybe I'm just too far removed from that 7yr old self that saw Star Wars back in '77. But in reality I just don't think it's that good. It's fun to watch. But I just did'nt find it satisfying.

 

[Tevious]

I agree with some of your points, but I still think some of these things can be retconned in Episode VIII, and I really hope they are. For example:

The Force:
The Force is nothing more than a superpower, according to The Force Awakens. It is now something that can be learned without the rigid discipline of Yoda or Obi-Wan. Now, if you believe hard enough, you can do anything with the Force!

Examples: Rey using Jedi mind tricks on a stormtrooper. Rey 'resisting' Kylo Ren. Rey going as far as to Force-pull a lightsaber into her grasp.

I think Rey was already trained in the ways of the force by Luke when she was young. She has some kind of amnesia about the past, maybe something Luke did to her to protect her. I think her ease of learning the force is her remembering what she has forgotten, hence the force "awakening" in her.

Luke's Lightsaber:
This is the most idiotic attempt by the film to 'respect' the original trilogy. In all of Star Wars' cinematic history, lightsabers were mere tools to a Jedi. An elegant weapon and nothing more. But now, lightsabers are mystical entities. They can "call to you", not unlike how the One Ring calls to Frodo in 'The Lord of the Rings'.

During the film's closing, Rey even goes as far as to 'return' the weapon to its owner, Luke. For reasons that I cannot comprehend, this scene has a ceremonial undertone, when the reality is that Luke never saw the weapon as anything more than, well, a weapon.

But, in favor of pleasing the fans with nostalgic imagery, the film defies all previously established logic and paints the weapon as something sacred.

So much so, that this is the ending shot of the film.

This really irked me during my first viewing too. I really hope they can deliver a plausible scenario as to how Maz got the lightsaber. Apparently, there is a deleted scene of the saber floating through space with Luke's hand attached to it. I'm glad they cut that out and had Maz say how she got the lightsaber is a story for another time. Clearly they didn't think it through well enough.

As for the saber calling to Rey. They should retcon this as Maz being a force user (she just said "I'm no Jedi", right?), so she just creates the visions that Rey sees (like Yoda did with Luke when he saw Vader on Dagobah), and just told her it was the saber "calling" to her to fit whatever agenda she has.

 

[CloudWolf]

Force Awakens is better than the OT in almost every way.

Rey, Finn and Poe are a much stronger trio of lead characters (plus more diverse). BB-8 is so much cuter and funnier than C3PO, that little robot just steals the show whereas C3PO just grates on your nerves. Visual design in TFA is much nicer.

The music and villain are better in the OT though. Emo Andy Samberg in a mask just can't compare to Vader and Palpatine.

How is Poe stronger than any of the lead characters in the OT? He's basically Wedge Antilles, he only shows up about three or four times in the movie.

I mean, I love Oscar Isaac and really wanted to love Poe, but he's a throwaway character in TFA.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

I'm still banking on Rei being one of Luke's padawans and that's why she's able to pick up on the force so easily.

One thing I didn't get is; if Luke is off trying to find the Jedi Temple, why is he just sitting in one place that can be found using a map instead of actually, you know, looking for the jedi temple?

 

[Blader]

I'll admit, there's a lot of bad things to infer about Luke right now.


He runs out when the Galaxy needs him most. He must meditate. He had to have known the First Order was about to destroy an entire system. Had to know Han was about to die. He comes off as a complete coward. I expect the later films to address these things though.

Yeah, it all depends on what exactly makes the first Jedi Temple so important. I don't think Luke is actually hiding out -- his disappearance is framed as his search for the temple right from the start -- but depending on what he's been doing there this whole time will play a big part in making Luke look better or worse.

It still feels important to us cuz of that great John Williams cue, and how the movie slows down for a bit to show how big a loss this was. Han's mourning didn't come until waaay later, after we've seen the not-Death Star blow up(which we never cared too much about) and lightsaber battles and shit have happened and people are actually celebrating.

More importantly, Obi-Wan makes an open sacrifice to teach Luke about the power of the Force(which is in-line with his entire character purpose the whole movie), which directly ties into the big climax where Luke uses the Force to destroy the Death Star.

I don't feel anything about Han. He doesn't get any redemption, cuz he doesn't need it. He just seems kinda stupid. You kinda just wait for the inevitable to happen. Its a strong scene for Ren, but not Han.

This sounds almost word for word like Devin Faraci's latest TFA op-ed rant :lol

I don't really feel Obi-Wan was mourned in any meaningful way in IV (again, it lasts literally seconds, and then nothing for the rest of the film). I think Chewie's rage shot on Ren and mowing down stormtroopers left and right packed packed more emotion.

And who said anything about redemption? The only possibly redeeming thing he's looking for is bringing back his son after failing to save him from the dark side in the first place. But even then, it's not some grand, self-sacrificing gesture. It's just a simple appeal to his son, and it fails. It's a nice moment, and Ford and (especially) Driver kill it.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I'm still banking on Rei being one of Luke's padawans and that's why she's able to pick up on the force so easily.

One thing I didn't get is; if Luke is off trying to find the Jedi Temple, why is he just sitting in one place that can be found using a map instead of actually, you know, looking for the jedi temple?

Maybe he's trying to tap into the Force

 

[excelsiorlef]

The worst part about Episode VII is that it robbed the good ending from everyone in the original trilogy. ROTJ will be even worse now knowing that everything they do in that film will be utterly pointless later in life to everyone involved.

World War 2

 

[The Last One]

I'm still banking on Rei being one of Luke's padawans and that's why she's able to pick up on the force so easily.

One thing I didn't get is; if Luke is off trying to find the Jedi Temple, why is he just sitting in one place that can be found using a map instead of actually, you know, looking for the jedi temple?

Maybe he's already in the planet of the first jedi temple?

 

[Principate]

It's also at that point where Kylo isn't even trying to kill her. He's trying to turn her.

I'm not convinced considering the fight involved him attacking her in rage and her barely surviving. At most you could say he was trying to capture her, but that conversation at the end seemed like a very last second sort of deal for someone as emotionally unstable as he was.

 

[funkypie]

I agree with everything the OP says and there is still more he has left out.

unfortunately people refuse to critically look at something with "it's a popcorn flick" "its star wars who cares" etc etc.

I was mildly entertained when I watched it, but nearly every few scenes I kept thinking, how ridiculous and stupid everything was.

200 million budget and all they could do was copy a new hope and insert fan service, not a shred of original ideas.

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

How is Poe stronger than any of the lead characters in the OT? He's basically Wedge Antilles, he only shows up about three or four times in the movie.

-Oscar Isaac is a far better actor and makes you like him with far less screen time than Ham Solo gets.
-BB-8 is also a better sidekick than Chewbacca.
-Poe is also very nice to look at.

 

[Principate]

You got a source on that? Or did you literally invent power levels for Kylo Ren and Rey and then account for the impact of Kylo's power level by Chewie's gun?

he source is the film you know the one where he pushed her back all the way to to a cliff ledge. Or did you conveniently blink and miss that part.

 

[Blader]

I'm still banking on Rei being one of Luke's padawans and that's why she's able to pick up on the force so easily.

One thing I didn't get is; if Luke is off trying to find the Jedi Temple, why is he just sitting in one place that can be found using a map instead of actually, you know, looking for the jedi temple?

When Luke left, he was looking for the temple. He's presumably there now.

 

[PerezDeCorcho]

-Oscar Isaac is a far better actor and makes you like him with far less screen time than Ham Solo gets.
-BB-8 is also a better sidekick than Chewbacca.
-Poe is also very nice to look at.

You've got a really compelling argument there.

 

[Brakke]

How is Poe stronger than any of the lead characters in the OT? He's basically Wedge Antilles, he only shows up about three or four times in the movie.

I mean, I love Oscar Isaac and really wanted to love Poe, but he's a throwaway character in TFA.

Basically Wedge? Did you see Poe's moves on Jakku? He aced in about forty seconds. And then went on to kill a Mega Death Star. That guy is a champ and a half.

 

[A Link to the Past]

he source is the film you know the one where he pushed her back all the way to to a cliff ledge. Or did you conveniently blink and miss that part.

um

So what you're saying is that a more powerful Rey can't beat Ren because Ren beat a less powerful Rey

Like I have no idea what point you're trying to make? lol

 

[excelsiorlef]

Except, no one made that complaint with the plethora of post ROTJ novels that launched.

And those undid even the Emperor's death

 

[Dryk]

As for the lightsaber calling out to Rey, it's not unknown for non-living things to be imbued with some sort of Force imprinting, such as with the cave on Dagobah. There's a heck of a lot of history around that particular lightsaber, and there are still two movies to explain why it has such an influence on Rey specifically. We can't expect to know everything all at once.

Old EU

The crystal is not, by itself, the power source of the weapon. Like the Force user, the crystal is attuned to the Force. Without that attunement, the crystal is just a rock. And while a non-Force user could probably ignite and wield a lightsaber, provided the crystal was properly attuned to the Force, all that lightsaber would be for him is a shaft of superheated plasma. But for a Jedi, the lightsaber becomes more: it is a manifestation of a Jedi's connection to the Force.

New EU

At the heart of every Jedi lightsaber is a kyber crystal found on several planets, most notably the icebound caves of Ilum. This crystal is attuned to the Force, and connected to a Jedi Knight on a deeply personal level. In this way, a lightsaber is an extension of a Jedi's Force awareness. Because Jedi let the Force guide their selection of the crystal, the vibration that the crystal creates in the lightsaber blade helps Jedi center themselves and find balance in the Force. In this way, a Jedi can center his or her attention beyond the distractions of combat. A lightsaber crystal is colorless until first attuned and connected to a Jedi -- at which times it glows either blue or green, or in some rare instances, another shade. From that point on, it retains that hue.

 

[Oidisco]

A very very important point that people seem to keep glossing over:

Kylo wasn't trying to kill Rey in the lightsaber fight. Snoke (still hate that name) told Kylo to bring Rey to him, and even during the fight itself Kylo wanted to teach her. (And someone makes that exact point while I was writing this, thanks!)

Meanwhile, Rey was fighting for her life and was actually getting pretty beat down throughout. It wasn't until the fight slowed down and Kylo actually reminded her of the Force that she turned things around on him.
It's clearly shown throughout the film that Rey adapts and learns very quickly, which is no doubt due to her life as a scavanger and having to fend for herself. We see it multiple times.

And Kylo was also very badly injured by Chewie, which obviously would've had an effect on his ability to fight. Even then, he toyed with Finn and was clearly doing fine against Rey until she had a little Awakening.

 

[Principate]

How is Poe stronger than any of the lead characters in the OT? He's basically Wedge Antilles, he only shows up about three or four times in the movie.

I mean, I love Oscar Isaac and really wanted to love Poe, but he's a throwaway character in TFA.

He was also originally supposed to die

 

[CloudWolf]

If A New Hope was released in 2015 people would shit all over Luke hardcore for being a Mary Sue

Huh? Isn't the 'Mary Sue' argument based on the fact that Rey almost does nothing wrong the entire movie? Luke does plenty of things wrong in ANH. He almost gets killed by the Sand People, he gets into a bar fight, he almost gets killed by a underwater beast, he almost gets squashed by a trash compactor, he almost gets shot down by Vader. All of those times other characters/events saved him.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

This sounds almost word for word like Devin Faraci's latest TFA op-ed rant :lol

ya know I just read that today, and it just mirror'd a lot of things I felt

Ya know, I think the movie would have been better if they just...didn't involve any of the OT3 at all. Like the general consensus is the first 30 minutes was the best part, right? Episode 8 will pretty much have to be better than Ep.7, just cuz it doesn't have to be this awkward transition piece that doesn't offend most people's idea of Star Wars.

Also we'll be spared more of Carrie Fisher's performance hopefully

 

[heliosRAzi]

What I'm really annoyed by is that people are willing to give a thumbs-up to Luke's asspull, but complain when Rey does it at the end. Cue the "but he's an amazing pilot, he used to bull's-eye Womp Rats in his T-16 back home!", and cue me saying "yeah, and Rey's primary weapon is a staff." Why is it so hard to believe that Rey could best Ren with a Force asspull, but not that Luke could nail a very difficult shot?

Probably because of when the characters learn about the Force. Luke witnesses the JMT at Mos Eisley at the beginning of the second act in ANH, begins his training with it between leaving on the Falcon and Alderaan getting blown up, and then he pulls off his improbable shot in the climax of the third act. Rey doesn't encounter the Force until a little bit past the halfway mark of TFA, encounters a Force user in the second act climax, and then pulls off her Force moment in the climax of TFA. For Rey, it's all in the latter half of the movie while Luke's is more spread out.

Rey also learns about, refuses, and accepts her destiny so quickly in the last part of the movie that it feels unearned.

 

[RedAssedApe]

-Oscar Isaac is a far better actor and makes you like him with far less screen time than Ham Solo gets.
-BB-8 is also a better sidekick than Chewbacca.
-Poe is also very nice to look at.

its as if poe looked straight into your eyes and had you right then and there. he's probably not even force sensitive either so its like pure charm and sex appeal lol

 

[A Link to the Past]

He was also originally supposed to die

What does that matter, exactly? Han Solo and Jessie Pinkman both were meant to die. This fact should not matter to the ultimate quality or value of the character.

Probably because of when the characters learn about the Force. Luke witnesses the JMT at Mos Eisley at the beginning of the second act in ANH, begins his training with it between leaving on the Falcon and Alderaan getting blown up, and then he pulls off his improbable shot in the climax of the third act. Rey doesn't encounter the Force until a little bit past the halfway mark of TFA, encounters a Force user in the second act climax, and then pulls off her Force moment in the climax of TFA. For Rey, it's all in the latter half of the movie while Luke's is more spread out.

Rey also learns about, refuses, and accepts her destiny so quickly in the last part of the movie that it feels unearned.

She accepted her destiny as a matter of desperation. Logically, once she started to get a better understanding of the Force, she then more easily fell into it.

 

[thecouncil]

I wonder how much the complaints are going to be explicitly addressed in the future movies. Like Batman v Superman with the destruction criticism, I feel like the audience is going to be directing these things over time. You manufacture crowd pleasing movies by pleasing the crowd (already what TFA did). On the other hand, Lucas heard the criticisms of his movies and truly did not care when it came to the other prequels. Haha.

 

[excelsiorlef]

How much development did we really see out of Luke, Han, and Leia in this film? It would be more interesting to SEE those things happen.

In an ideal world, I think Episode VII should have been set years earlier when all of these interesting developments were taking place.

This movie isn't about the original 3. Their time as leads has passed. They are passing the torch to the new leads all of whom are incredibly dynamic.

 

[JB1981]

It's also at that point where Kylo isn't even trying to kill her. He's trying to turn her.

He was commanded by Snoke to bring her in. Yea.