High moon is already onboard.
And Bungie owns the IP. Activision can choose to opt out of the deal after the second game according to the leaked contract, but they can't just claim the IP based upon a contract violation.
Destiny has gone stagnant - It's time for Destiny to show its hand [EUROGAMER]
- Thread starter mocoworm
- Start date
High moon is already onboard.
And Bungie owns the IP. Activision can choose to opt out of the deal after the second game according to the leaked contract, but they can't just claim the IP based upon a contract violation.
Its in a pretty sorry state compared to the advertised ever changing world with a constant feed of new content. Bungie clearly bit of more than it could chew.
I've not been on in months and would only return for new story based missions and strikes. These constant variations of Crucible really aren't enough, the valentines event sounds like yet another lazy throw away event.
I've not been on in months and would only return for new story based missions and strikes. These constant variations of Crucible really aren't enough, the valentines event sounds like yet another lazy throw away event.
I don't disagree that a full fledged sequel with commensurate marketing budget would pull the a large number of lapsed players back in, and potentially enough new players to offset those who didn't.
That said, attempting to compare Destiny's long term plan to a TLOU2 multiplayer is silly, and WD is even worse.
At the end of the day, it's a math problem.
For TLOU2 multiplayer, it's a safe assumption that by the time it comes out, it would have been more expensive to keep producing new material to keep users engaged than it would be to do the necessary marketing to win an equivalent-or-greater number of users back. That's fine; and the model for how most multiplayer goes: it's a mode to play within the context of that game. There's no 10 year plan for TLOU multiplayer.
The WD example is worse because it's primarily a single player game. But to extend the "math problem" concept, I think it's academic that if they'd done DLC every 3 months between WD release and WD2 release, yes, they'd sell more copies of WD2, but that it would cost MORE to produce that DLC than it would be worth in retained users, and therefore a losing proposition.
For Destiny, it's totally different. I'm sure they assumed they wouldn't retain all the players between major versions, but I'd be astounded if the plan had been "well, we'll hemorrhage players 1/3 of the way through year 2, and just break the bank advertising when we do have something". It's just common sense that the goal has always been to retain the maximum number of players the cheapest way possible and use marketing dollars to get NEW users. The problem is that content plan has clearly jumped the rails. Given that context, it's a little mind boggling that they aren't doing more by way of communication to stem the bleeding that has to be happening.
So yeah; while they *can* buy users back when Destiny 2 comes out, that's the worst way to do it. In hindsight, I guess i could have added "... unless they offset it with significant additional marketing spend". I guess I thought that went without saying.
EDIT:
While this is worded pretty harshly, I think the gist of it is what I mean about comparing Destiny to TLOU multiplayer, or any other multiplayer experience, really. Failing after 1.25 years on a 10 year promise is bad. Not acknowledging the failure is worse. Not communicating in a meaningful way at all is worse yet. I really do think they'd be immediately and largely forgiven if they'd just lay out what's happening, and what their plans are, then keeping that transparency up. I honestly believe the best thing for the franchise and 10 year plan would be delaying until mid-2017 releasing a current-gen-only Destiny 2, and fixing the toolset. Destiny 1's infrastructure is untenable, and not a foundation to build a 10 year franchise on.
So I see a lot of people are defending Destiny because it doesn't have paid subscription like WoW. Same can be said about TES: Online. Just out of curiosity, how are two of these comparable? Is TES constantly updated or not? What about content it already has?
I played Destiny for a loooong time and dropped it after lackluster HoW.
I played Destiny for a loooong time and dropped it after lackluster HoW.
That's me but I didn't freak out about it. I exhausted the content then hung around for a month and a half then moved on. I'm in the it's ok to play other games camp. The micro transactions are a little salt enducing but hey I'd be a liar if I didn't say I'll be here for destiny 2 day 1.
I think people who compare destiny to any non mmo game content wise aren't being fair to Bungie. In fact comparing Destiny to ANY game content wise isn't really being fair to Bungie imo for this reason. Bungie made FPS games then all of a sudden switch to pioneer a new genre. Nothing like destiny has come out before. How could they possibly know what mistakes and delays and quagmires they were going to run into. They still are obviously struggling with content pipelines for this type of game and while it's easy to get snarky or say they failed I would rather just appreciate them for trying.
Now if the division comes out and has tons of content and supports it in a way that blows away Destiny well ok then I will feel that criticizing Bungie is ok for failing on promises but from what I see the Divisions content will most likely be like Destiny vanilla's level.
What I'm trying to say is until someone comes out with a game like Destiny and does it better it's hard for me to talk about them failing or breaking promises.
wipeout364
Member
Actually if 33% of bungie leaves activision owns the ip i believe according to the 2010 contract. Activision can easily tweak working conditions at bungie to make it a sweat house based on the deliverables bungie says they can put out.
Continued development of GTA Online has been funded via the cash microtransactions that have existed since the game released.
Destiny has had microtransactions (which I'll bet are nowhere near as lucrative, considering they're for emotes and not currency) for two (three?) months out of 16. I should also mention the length of time it taken for content such as Heists to actually make it into GTAV (which were promised to be released soon after launch). I can't comment on Diablo, I've not played it.
Destiny -should- have been a game like GTA Online. But it isn't, and the playerbase has had plenty of time to recognise that.
Destiny wouldn't be Destiny without the Bungie feel. Activision would have to hire the gun guys and artists from Bungie to prevent that.
BTHR Zero X
Member
I worked from Home, was my own boss.
Complicated
Banned
I'm not all that engaged with Bungie or the Destiny community anymore, but I feel the writing has been on the wall for a while now that Bungie can't support this game properly. Through official channels and via insider information, everything coming out of there has indicated that they are winding things down rather than investing in the playerbase.
I can't tell if they're being quiet because they're planning to reboot things with a Destiny 2, or if they just put their heads down to ignore the players while they try to churn out enough content through their fucked up development pipeline for a new $60 release.
I think the first option would be somewhat acceptable. Building off of this original game for 8 more years would be a goddamn nightmare for them and for players.
I can't tell if they're being quiet because they're planning to reboot things with a Destiny 2, or if they just put their heads down to ignore the players while they try to churn out enough content through their fucked up development pipeline for a new $60 release.
I think the first option would be somewhat acceptable. Building off of this original game for 8 more years would be a goddamn nightmare for them and for players.
Nameless
Member
It irritates me that 'Year 2' was largely an excuse to remove half of the game's gear and strikes. Taken King is great, but there's still this weird self imposed content problem that doesn't have to exist. With that said I still pick it up a few times a month because the shooting superb.
NullPointer
Member
Warframe came out first, does what Destiny does and more and has a TON more content and player investment and customizations and community tools and has released new content updates steadily since release, for free.
Now I'm not at all suggesting that everybody who likes Destiny would like Warframe, just making the point that Bungie didn't invent a new genre nor are they leading the way. They've just got a lot more marketing muscle.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
They made their bed IMHO when they went with Activision.
Has the EverVerse Trading Company buy heavy ammo for real money rumor been debunked yet? My kids said some prominent Destiny youtubers were tipped off that Activision is trying to get Bungie to implement that along with the selling of armor and weapons.
Anyways, Activision is going to Microtransaction the HELL out of Destiny 2 if not make it free to play IMO.
Worst idea ever for Bungie to shack up with Activision. Would have only been worse to go with EA.
Has the EverVerse Trading Company buy heavy ammo for real money rumor been debunked yet? My kids said some prominent Destiny youtubers were tipped off that Activision is trying to get Bungie to implement that along with the selling of armor and weapons.
Anyways, Activision is going to Microtransaction the HELL out of Destiny 2 if not make it free to play IMO.
Worst idea ever for Bungie to shack up with Activision. Would have only been worse to go with EA.
Boombloxer
Member
GTA Online was delayed for the main game, which sold millions of copies. Even if they didn't have microtransactions, there was enough money to cover it from initial sales. Like D3, RDR (dlc), Max payne (dlc), BL2 (dlc) and others.
We're not really disagreeing.
Diablo 3 received patches before and after the expansion.
Not really arguing about that.
I'd really not my character to be wiped.
brianjones
Member
the problem is when people think creating FPS content is the same as a top down point and click
Moon_frogger
Member
again, destiny could be doing all of that if they weren't making an entirely new game. as it is, they ARE making a new game AND managed to drop the taken king, which by the way poo poo's all over warframe which is a terrible game in my opinion.
CyclopsRock
Member
I might just be a stupid moron, but why do they actually care if people stop playing? It's not an MMO, people aren't paying a subscription and the micro-transactions are, from what I understand, fairly limited in appeal. If they actually do have nothing planned between now and Destiny 2 launching, is it even a problem if people go off and play something else in the mean time?
brianjones
Member
not a problem at all.. I think people feel like destiny owes them something because they've invested so much time into it
I feel like I lucked into getting into Destiny when I did. I've had the game for about a month, have played about 80 hours and still have shitloads of content I haven't touched, so hearing that we probably have everything we're going to get in terms of substantial content until next year is...well, not as disappointing to me because I was never going to pour thousands of hours into the game. It's fun, but I have other games to play.
Hopefully Destiny 2, whatever form it takes, will be worth the wait, but I'd rather them get their shit together than destroy themselves with an untenable project for the sake of stringing people along until they get to the sequel's release.
Hopefully Destiny 2, whatever form it takes, will be worth the wait, but I'd rather them get their shit together than destroy themselves with an untenable project for the sake of stringing people along until they get to the sequel's release.
Sleight of Jam
Banned
How? Lots of f2p MMO's do this already.
Moon_frogger
Member
the elder scrolls online has a robust cash shop as well as a sub option which I'm guessing the majority of serious players opt into. It's not really a fair comparison. Also, TES has received one dlc since launch and the next one isn't until november. Even MMO's like ffxiv that receive large quarterly content updates are pretty much considered a disappointment after the community tears through the content.
The best hope for destiny at this point is that destiny 2 lays a better foundation for dlc that comes faster and lasts longer.
Rising_Hei
Member
Not anymore lol, they now break each update into pieces to hide the fact that each big chunk of content now takes 5-6 months to come
As for destiny, i made my maths and if you were playing destiny and bought each DLC when it came out, if you split the total costs of those updates you'd pay a quantity very similar to those that mmos with monthly fees have, so in truth, Destiny is a mmo with hidden monthly fee, imo
(before TTK was released)NullPointer
Member
Its comparable. If you bought the games new, without the season pass you paid $60 for the vanilla game, $20 for The Dark Below, $20 for the House of Wolves, and another $40 for The Taken King. That's $140 for the game as it stands today, or $60 plus $80 for the first year of support.As for destiny, i made my maths and if you were playing destiny and bought each DLC when it came out, if you split the total costs of those updates you'd pay a quantity very similar to those that mmos with monthly fees have, so in truth, Destiny is a mmo with hidden monthly fee, imo
That's smaller than the fee you'd get playing WoW, but the game itself is also smaller in scale. Its the most expensive year of console game support I'm aware of though.
Outrun
Member
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
The game is a new genre unto itself
It's a FPS + MMO Lite + Co-op Drop In/Out + Community Shared + Loot + RPG Experience
Also known as a Shared Online Shooter
The main draws for the game are 2 distinct features
1. The gunplay. It's the best out there. Most try other shooters, but harken back to Destiny gun shooting "feeling". It is regarded an experience you have to try and will fall in love with.
The TTK (time to kill) gets adjusted, but feels good enough where it gives you a sense of accomplishment.
2. Community. From Day 1 if you were lone wolf/solo/insular or introvert player, this game did put up a huge barrier/wall for you to leave such playstyle
Yes Matchmaking would've eased such barriers, but it unto itself became a networking feature.
You had to search out like minded people or try to recruit or join. GAF has a huge Destiny following due to our large pool of members and most of us appreciating each others company cause we had a common interest.
Same goes for other websites that players visit and aggregated a player pool.
First it was gunplay, the universe, the raid, the loot and Bungie pedigree that kept people hooked. Once that was gone, Community took over as the sole purpose.
I know this may sound blasphemous, I'm not trying to offend or make it equal as a grand gesture, but a lot of players are like military soldiers. We've enjoyed the company of our fellow comrades/squad so much, that once we leave (deploy home aka leave the game) we feel that loss, that you feel guilty and want to continue that bonding and being around it.
I've been away from the game for almost a year now due to health issues and the first few weeks hit me hard while in the hospital. Like Damn I let my buddies down, I wasn't there for Raid reset, no checkpoint passing, no shooting the shit with strangers now I called friends, and getting to experience something funny, endearing or jubilation from the game.
This game really brought out the best in everyone. From playing with GAF and strangers, it's complete different from say a COD. The culture of COD is very known and really Destiny never felt remotely like that for me at all, I put in roughly close to 1000 hours before getting sidelined or I would be 2000+ easily on this.
Game had a helpful nature that the elders went helped the newer players get their feet wet and join the ranks.
I went out of my to teach GAFfers how to farm destination materials. Hell one GAFfer admired that he just followed me and w/o communication or any friendship taught him the route/loop.
Then once they became a GAF member (lurked, but didn't know me at the time) it dawned on them I was the same person I helped farm those materials.
Small world huh?
What sucks right now is players are invested. The friends they've made and Community has given this game great longevity. Bungie should be seeing this (maybe they are, but it's not showing up on the dividends front). Most games would die for such retention with this content value delivered.
Games go through lulls, dry stages, but this game deserves some transparency. If it gets stigmatized it would be hard to brush off. Now there are other SOS genre games being created. The Division if successful and caters to those scorned and rips away chunks of players who invested much into Destiny, might find greener pastures on the other side. Hell if The Division does constant updates/communication flow it will trump Bungie and its IP. I mean games are a business, competition is always good. Hopefully Bungie responds.
It's a FPS + MMO Lite + Co-op Drop In/Out + Community Shared + Loot + RPG Experience
Also known as a Shared Online Shooter
The main draws for the game are 2 distinct features
1. The gunplay. It's the best out there. Most try other shooters, but harken back to Destiny gun shooting "feeling". It is regarded an experience you have to try and will fall in love with.
The TTK (time to kill) gets adjusted, but feels good enough where it gives you a sense of accomplishment.
2. Community. From Day 1 if you were lone wolf/solo/insular or introvert player, this game did put up a huge barrier/wall for you to leave such playstyle
Yes Matchmaking would've eased such barriers, but it unto itself became a networking feature.
You had to search out like minded people or try to recruit or join. GAF has a huge Destiny following due to our large pool of members and most of us appreciating each others company cause we had a common interest.
Same goes for other websites that players visit and aggregated a player pool.
First it was gunplay, the universe, the raid, the loot and Bungie pedigree that kept people hooked. Once that was gone, Community took over as the sole purpose.
I know this may sound blasphemous, I'm not trying to offend or make it equal as a grand gesture, but a lot of players are like military soldiers. We've enjoyed the company of our fellow comrades/squad so much, that once we leave (deploy home aka leave the game) we feel that loss, that you feel guilty and want to continue that bonding and being around it.
I've been away from the game for almost a year now due to health issues and the first few weeks hit me hard while in the hospital. Like Damn I let my buddies down, I wasn't there for Raid reset, no checkpoint passing, no shooting the shit with strangers now I called friends, and getting to experience something funny, endearing or jubilation from the game.
This game really brought out the best in everyone. From playing with GAF and strangers, it's complete different from say a COD. The culture of COD is very known and really Destiny never felt remotely like that for me at all, I put in roughly close to 1000 hours before getting sidelined or I would be 2000+ easily on this.
Game had a helpful nature that the elders went helped the newer players get their feet wet and join the ranks.
I went out of my to teach GAFfers how to farm destination materials. Hell one GAFfer admired that he just followed me and w/o communication or any friendship taught him the route/loop.
Then once they became a GAF member (lurked, but didn't know me at the time) it dawned on them I was the same person I helped farm those materials.
Small world huh?
What sucks right now is players are invested. The friends they've made and Community has given this game great longevity. Bungie should be seeing this (maybe they are, but it's not showing up on the dividends front). Most games would die for such retention with this content value delivered.
Games go through lulls, dry stages, but this game deserves some transparency. If it gets stigmatized it would be hard to brush off. Now there are other SOS genre games being created. The Division if successful and caters to those scorned and rips away chunks of players who invested much into Destiny, might find greener pastures on the other side. Hell if The Division does constant updates/communication flow it will trump Bungie and its IP. I mean games are a business, competition is always good. Hopefully Bungie responds.
SRTtoZ
Member
This is pretty much the situation I am in currently with Destiny. I've put hundreds of hours into TTK, I got my friend addicted to the game, we played the fuck out of it. Now I'm working on my backlog until they announce SOMETHING that gets me back into it. No, not these silly little events that I don't give a shit about, I'm talking a major expansion or Destiny 2. I also really enjoy the PVP but ive gotten so fucking sour on it because of how unbalanced it is (heavy ammo and supers should be fucking DELETED from PVP). I really enjoy the core game but I need to know something new, and soon!
joecanada
Member
this is actually a terrible opinion. The games are actually quite similar and warframe offers exponentially more stuff to actually do, collect, trade, buy, sell, etc.
Destiny had AAA gameplay and MP which are the only things that kept me in with friends.
Anyone who doesn't "need" AAA graphics, gameplay should try warframe for sure. For 10 dollars I collected more, did more, fought more than in destinys entire 100 dollar LE that I bought.
Warframe just got a bit stagnant for me but not any more so than destiny. Pretty equivalent games at a completely opposite price
1. ripoff.
2. free
100 + hours in warframe
300+ in destiny of which half was MP at least.
wipeout364
Member
You mean like how call of duty couldn't be made without infinity ward?
Two different things. Example would be Halo after Bungie left. Halo 4 and 5 have diverted far off from their predecessors in physics, art style, and the way the story is presented.
I like Destiny and have the same problems with it we go over every week.
Hoping for the best, but there's still a very worrying lack of cohesion between many design elements.
I don't put Destiny's shooting on an unassailable pedestal.
Mostly...
DGAF in Defiance would have been amazing.
Hoping for the best, but there's still a very worrying lack of cohesion between many design elements.
I don't put Destiny's shooting on an unassailable pedestal.
Mostly...
Defiance never gets its due. That was a really fun game
DGAF in Defiance would have been amazing.
Crimson_Gold
Member
I wouldn't mind that part. Make the story matter
Destiny 2: The Clicker Continues
Interficium
Banned
Over the last year I've learned that the Destiny community uses "communication" as shorthand for "getting stuff."
Getting new content, preferably for free? "Good communication."
Not getting new content? "Bad communication. Bungie should be firing people."
Honestly, I think it's a little bullshit to be demanding something like "Bungie just needs TO TALK TO US!" when they know full well they're only looking for a statement that is something like "New expansion soon" or else they'll have a meltdown. That's not requesting more transparency and communication, that's just asking for shit.
I've also found that the Destiny community loves to say stuff like "X game gets REGULAR CONTENT UPDATES!" as a damning accusation of their beloved game while ignoring factoids like actual release cadences (World of Warcraft often over a year between major releases), level of content (COD glorfified map packs), or the presence of subscription fees.
Ultimately this is what happens when your require one game to fulfill all your gaming needs at any given time.
Getting new content, preferably for free? "Good communication."
Not getting new content? "Bad communication. Bungie should be firing people."
Honestly, I think it's a little bullshit to be demanding something like "Bungie just needs TO TALK TO US!" when they know full well they're only looking for a statement that is something like "New expansion soon" or else they'll have a meltdown. That's not requesting more transparency and communication, that's just asking for shit.
I've also found that the Destiny community loves to say stuff like "X game gets REGULAR CONTENT UPDATES!" as a damning accusation of their beloved game while ignoring factoids like actual release cadences (World of Warcraft often over a year between major releases), level of content (COD glorfified map packs), or the presence of subscription fees.
Ultimately this is what happens when your require one game to fulfill all your gaming needs at any given time.
When we say we want communication, it would be like the following (just an example, none of this is true):
"In February, we will be holding a multiplayer event themed around Valentine's Day. Then in March we will be releasing a few new PvE missions along with quests that will serve as a prologue for our next significant content drop in May, which will include two new strikes, new weapons, and new multiplayer maps."
That's it. Just a roadmap on what to expect with some vague clues about the amount of content coming. The fact that they can't even do this means that they have no idea what to do to keep people entertained until Destiny 2.
So what do we call it when economy changes take place one day that are immediately invalidated by a patch the very next?
So what do we call it when we are told weapons are to be tuned by X amount when they really meant .0X amount?
So what do we call it when the monetization becomes more aggressive setting expectations not matched by the content?
Oh yeah, 'entitled.'
Destiny just has too many bad customers.
Right on cue
Skinner would be proud.
Highlight the good.
Clear concise communication. Excellent =]
Xplatformer
Member
Anyone have this on X360?
Worth picking up the Taken King? I played to level 20 on my PS4 when I still had it. Wondering if it's worth a repurchase to play on last gen.
Worth picking up the Taken King? I played to level 20 on my PS4 when I still had it. Wondering if it's worth a repurchase to play on last gen.
Interficium
Banned
What if they tell you no significant content until late 2016, or 2017?
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
This game is such a roller coaster. 4 months ago this game was reborn and made great in many people's eyes and here we are saying it is stagnant.
The date isn't the problem, the silence is. Period.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
The problem is expectations and primarily Activision's expectations. Bungie really probably needs to take a year to 18 months to get things put together and then release Destiny 2. Push the reset button on everything. Activision's wants this to be the next Warcraft that evolves with regular updates and yearly expansions.
Hearing about the development process and his slow and difficult it is I don't see how that's possible.
Everything about Destiny, since day 1, has screamed that Bungie bit off way more than they could chew. Taken King was a massive improvement, but even that just got to the game to pretty good status. From the start, it's been clear their content creation tools just aren't up to par and situations like this prove that Kotaku piece more accurate every day.
Absolutely to the bolded. It's not Bungie's fault that people are determined to make the game some lifestyle choice instead of just finishing the content and moving on. It's great when a company can add more content to a game to expand its life, like Diablo 3, but it's clear that's not going to happen here. Bungie is cashing out with the whaling and focusing fully on Destiny 2. Move on with your lives.
Absolutely to the bolded. It's not Bungie's fault that people are determined to make the game some lifestyle choice instead of just finishing the content and moving on. It's great when a company can add more content to a game to expand its life, like Diablo 3, but it's clear that's not going to happen here. Bungie is cashing out with the whaling and focusing fully on Destiny 2. Move on with your lives.
MrBenchmark
Member
Samurai G0SU
Member
Ppl play the iron banner?
Icyflamez96
Member
Buff Hand Cannon's pls
MrBenchmark
Member
they don't need a buff they need their reserve ammo back!