Icyflamez96
Member
Isn't that a buff
Destiny has gone stagnant - It's time for Destiny to show its hand [EUROGAMER]
- Thread starter mocoworm
- Start date
Isn't that a buff
MrBenchmark
Member
If you want to be super vague sure. I prefer to be more specific. Lots of guns need "adjustments" but too many people cry "buff" and "nerf" in many cases changes have ruined some weapons.
FinalHeaven
Neo Member
I picked up the game shortly before Christmas and I've had an absolute blast up until now. But I can already see the lack of content quickly approaching and I'm hoping I don't lose interest.
I'd like to hope that we'll see some sort of meaningful dlc from Bungie even if it's not a real expac but I guess at this point given everything we're hearing I might be delusional.
I'd like to hope that we'll see some sort of meaningful dlc from Bungie even if it's not a real expac but I guess at this point given everything we're hearing I might be delusional.
Icyflamez96
Member
Dude, a buff is a buff and for Hand Cannons I'll take it. Beggars can't be choosers!
MrBenchmark
Member
True
Just gimme reserve ammo you should never run out of primary ammo on PATROL!SO glad they are rolling back this skill based bullshit! i have super fast low ping internet and the lag in matches is insane right now.
CreateNowSleepLater
Member
One of their biggest mistakes were nerfing the weapons. Getting rid of the Hawkmoon and Gally really hurt. Why spend so much time chasing weapons when they will just nerf them or remove them all together.
Not to smart on a game with zero story and essentially boils down to a loot game.
Not to smart on a game with zero story and essentially boils down to a loot game.
Short of a new raid, I'm not sure there's anything Bungie could announce that would satisfy people. And even then, only like 25% of players are actively raiding anyway.
The problem is the same as with World of Warcraft -- players burn through content much faster than it can be created. If Bungie announced 3 new strikes tomorrow people would be sick of them by March anyway.
The difference is that I think WoW (in its heyday at least) did a better job of having several plateaus of endgame character progression for everyone to push through. Destiny gives away epic loot too freely, and too much of it is basically the same. Since damage ends up getting normalized against lower-light enemies, there isn't even any point in handing out 320-Light gear. You don't ever get to feel overpowered anymore since they are so damned scared of creating weapons that are too good.
The problem is the same as with World of Warcraft -- players burn through content much faster than it can be created. If Bungie announced 3 new strikes tomorrow people would be sick of them by March anyway.
The difference is that I think WoW (in its heyday at least) did a better job of having several plateaus of endgame character progression for everyone to push through. Destiny gives away epic loot too freely, and too much of it is basically the same. Since damage ends up getting normalized against lower-light enemies, there isn't even any point in handing out 320-Light gear. You don't ever get to feel overpowered anymore since they are so damned scared of creating weapons that are too good.
Yes, it is a serviceable port with a great community. Unfortunately, it takes forever to fire up a synth. Also, have an Android/iOS/Bungie.net handy to change up your gear since the inventory screen takes a long time to load. It is still the Destiny you love to play. Expect some younger players and some people who are still happy with their x360s with no motivation to upgrade.
Funny most of the people in the Destiny OT thread complain exactly the opposite, they say Bungie is way too stingy with giving away the good loot.
Bungie made the most of the old strikes irrelevant by taking them out of the year 2 dragon strike rotation for some weird reason too.
Outrun
Member
I used to get all sorts of shit on Halowaypoint for saying something similar.
Many individuals there do not want communication.... They want compliance to their whims...
NullPointer
Member
New environments, definitely, but they could also set a roadmap for long sought systems like in-game LFG, and change progression so that all missions, strikes and raids are viable and rewarding at any level. Or end-game versions of each patrol area with new, harder public events.
A roadmap more than anything would help at this point I think. The game is good but the content is too restricted and linear for how much the progression system demands replaying them.
Of course its hard to know whats viable and whats not with the current state of their tools and the demands of their contracts.
starchild excalibur
Member
Jumped in around TTK, played super actively for about 5 or 6 weeks, switched off and haven't been back since.
The game is fun but I couldn't just keep playing the same pve shit again and again. If I was more into pvp I'm sure I'd have kept playing more.
The game is fun but I couldn't just keep playing the same pve shit again and again. If I was more into pvp I'm sure I'd have kept playing more.
Duane Cunningham
Member
Oddly enough, I hadn't played in about a year, having dropped out right around The Dark Below, but just picked up TTK on sale a few weeks ago, and I've been playing it pretty hard core again.
Keep in mind that I said they give away loot too freely, and too much of it is basically the same. Also keep in mind that I'm talking in reference to WoW, where you could join a 10-25 man raiding group and possibly see no drops at all in a single week.
I haven't visited in a long while, but the people in the OT are most likely complaining that they can't get 315-320 gear that is basically identical to the 300-310 gear aside from a higher armor/damage rating. There's no awesome gear to chase down -- just the same old gear with a marginally better defense/DPS.
Because damage is mostly normalized against lower-light combatants, you don't even get the sense of progression that comes from collecting all the high-end gear. At 320 Light you should be able to melt stuff, but instead it feels like a pretty marginal DPS boost.
I think WoW just did endgame better. They had a Heroic Dungeon / Normal Raid / Hard Raid progression for you to go through, but because loot was so scarce there was always a reason to go back to Heroics and Normal Raids for more tokens to buy high-value gear from vendors that only accepted tokens. The progression in Destiny is pretty much linear -- there is no point to do heroics if you can do raids, there's not much point in normal raids if you can do hard raids.
Not sure if you have played the KF raid, but very often people complain about going through a whole raid and getting no drops, or getting no HM drops.
Only very recently with the introduction of Challenge Mode KF are people seeing guaranteed 320 drops that are still RNG.
I actually like Bungie's approach to leveling. Most of the game is ridiculously easy once you hit 310+ light, but no it doesn't mean you are turning on God mode and I think that's a good thing. God mode would be ridiculous.
Also on this I feel differently too. I am happy to only have one raid to do each week. I don't want to be grinding all this other stuff all the time. I am happy that Destiny is more "compatible with real life" than WoW ever was..
Interficium
Banned
Roadmaps are not happening for the exact reasons why other games with fanatical communities (DOTA, League, WoW, etc) don't provide roadmaps: the community is not mature enough, mostly in their understanding of the incredibly fluid and volatile nature of game development but in other areas as well, to be able to be provided a product development timeline without interpreting that document as ironclad promises with hard deadlines, no matter how much you caveat it with "This is all work in progress and dates may slip, features may be cut, etc."
Gamers often think they want to know how the sausage is made, but they really don't. This is why it always cracks me up whenever Schreier goes on one of his "the games industry needs to be more transparent!" rants.
I've done King's Fall Normal more times than I can count, and only Hard Mode a handful of times. I still think Destiny is way more generous than WoW ever was. You also have to consider the length and difficulty of each game's raids. A WoW raid could make you do a dozen bosses and get nothing, whereas a Destiny raid in its entirety is maybe 4-5 bosses plus 1-2 drops for non-boss challenge encounters. Then consider that the WoW drops are a few items being split between a dozen or more people, whereas Destiny's bosses will almost always give you something (that may or may not be an upgrade). WoW also has like 16 gear slots for you to fill with drops, whereas Destiny has like 10. A WoW player has to get 60% more "good drops" than a Destiny player if they want to max out a character.
And now we have gotten to the heart of it. The tradeoff is that WoW could string you along for months chasing down high-tier gear, but because Destiny is more generous that means people max-out their characters much faster and suddenly start demanding new content much sooner.
It's totally valid to want a game that is more "compatible with real life", but you have to recognize that the cost of making the game compatible with real life is that if you are a binge-player, endgame content will be over much more quickly. Bungie could easily extend the endgame if they wanted too (and the new Light system is pretty much an attempt at that), but it would only be met with more complaints about having to grind or rely on RNG.
NullPointer
Member
I don't know about that. There are a few games I play that get regular or semi-regular updates that go against that narrative.
DriveClub laid out its Season Pass updates in advance, even with aspects of that roadmap left open in terms of detail. No exact dates, just months.
With Warframe you know you're going to see the next major numbered update every two or three months, and Digital Extremes is good in terms of hinting at the big new features to expect as well as hinting at some of the smaller or surprise stuff, while keeping a regular status check in terms of PC release and console certification targets. Hell, the last time I logged in, my in-game ship's control panel actually let me know the latest smaller update was just entered into PS4 cert. That was a surprise.
Diablo 3 has telegraphed its updates far in advance too, and releases them to coincide wit the next season on PC.
Even Killzone: Shadowfall laid out their plan, though I think some dates slipped big time. They lost players, but less so because of setting the wrong expectations as much as only hitting their targets nearly a year later, when most players had already moved on.
This generation is all about these post-release updates, and Bungie set expectations in year one, and with any use of the term "year two", starting with The Taken King. And I don't think they're withholding a roadmap because they don't think the playerbase can take it as much as they really don't know themselves what they can reasonably promise yet.
But I'll be shocked and awed if we don't hear at least some decent rumblings about what comes next before The Division hits.
This has been said a lot, but one of the biggest issues right now for Destiny is also one of the things Bungie is most in control of: the communication between Bungie and it's fans/players. A lot of the "salt" going on right now comes from nervousness. Bungie pivoted from a year when they had a known roadmap, to a new model they never really explained to players. (Every round of new items for sale in Eververse has moved the line a bit between cosmetic and non-cosmetic.)
We don't know the scope of what the Live team is doing (parsing some opaque PR statements points to just timed events, but some similarly dense language in a BWU last year points to possibly more), or what their cadence is. As a result, we don't know enough about either end of the model Bungie moved to this year: what kind of things will now be for sale for space bucks, and what they plan to build and release with them (or when).
It's possible Bungie doesn't know what to do themselves. News of constantly shifting plans are out there. But I think a lot of goodwill would be generated by just talking to the players about what's going on, to the extent that they can.
Destiny in year 1 had a pretty big gulf between TDB and HoW, but just knowing HoW was coming, along with regular quality of life updates, kept the community looking forward to something. People still griped and such, but a lot of the discussion was about what we hoped would be included in HoW. Right now we don't know what's reasonable to hope for, or when, because Bungie hasn't set our expectations.
The timed events to date also have a consequence of preventing an accumulation of content. Festival of the Lost, SLR and the upcoming Crimson Days are fun (or look fun), but they come and go and players are left without anything to do after they go.
I left the game happy and will return for each new event and piece of DLC, but I do wish we had some kind of roadmap, or at least more open communication lines.
On a related note, The Witness comes out tomorrow. It took eight years to make, five longer than initially expected. I had regular updates on the dev blog since 2009 talking about how the game was going, what it looked like in its current state, why it was taking longer than expected, how the scope grew over time, etc. The open communication had enormous benefits for Jonathan Blow's game, and those looking forward to it (above and beyond making for some fascinating reading as the game progressed).
Bungie is hesitant to show anything until it's on dock for release, or bullet point out some of the things they are working on until they're locked into an update. It's overly cautious, IMO.
We don't know the scope of what the Live team is doing (parsing some opaque PR statements points to just timed events, but some similarly dense language in a BWU last year points to possibly more), or what their cadence is. As a result, we don't know enough about either end of the model Bungie moved to this year: what kind of things will now be for sale for space bucks, and what they plan to build and release with them (or when).
It's possible Bungie doesn't know what to do themselves. News of constantly shifting plans are out there. But I think a lot of goodwill would be generated by just talking to the players about what's going on, to the extent that they can.
Destiny in year 1 had a pretty big gulf between TDB and HoW, but just knowing HoW was coming, along with regular quality of life updates, kept the community looking forward to something. People still griped and such, but a lot of the discussion was about what we hoped would be included in HoW. Right now we don't know what's reasonable to hope for, or when, because Bungie hasn't set our expectations.
The timed events to date also have a consequence of preventing an accumulation of content. Festival of the Lost, SLR and the upcoming Crimson Days are fun (or look fun), but they come and go and players are left without anything to do after they go.
I left the game happy and will return for each new event and piece of DLC, but I do wish we had some kind of roadmap, or at least more open communication lines.
On a related note, The Witness comes out tomorrow. It took eight years to make, five longer than initially expected. I had regular updates on the dev blog since 2009 talking about how the game was going, what it looked like in its current state, why it was taking longer than expected, how the scope grew over time, etc. The open communication had enormous benefits for Jonathan Blow's game, and those looking forward to it (above and beyond making for some fascinating reading as the game progressed).
Bungie is hesitant to show anything until it's on dock for release, or bullet point out some of the things they are working on until they're locked into an update. It's overly cautious, IMO.
I think that it is actually pretty disturbing and worrying that Bungie cannot even set a roadmap 3-6 months into the future.
That said, they have pretty much always kept us in the dark until 6-7 weeks before a major update happens. Nobody really knew what Dark Below was supposed to be until mid-November. The House of Wolves Twitch livestreams only started happening about 5 weeks before launch. Yeah, the expansions were scheduled and dated 6-8 months ahead of time but no specifics were offered until weeks before release.
Even Taken King was only unveiled 3 months before launch.
GlamFM
Banned
TTK broke more than it fixed.
I´ve been saying this for a while now, but Vanilla was the best state this game was ever in.
Both previous expansion kept the content relevant while expanding the universe.
TTK has made the universe significantly smaller.
There is no reason to play the Prison of Elders.
There is no reason to play regular strikes AT ALL.
There is no reason to play the Nightfall.
There is no reason to play the old Raids.
The weird philosophy to keep PvE and PvP in balance has lead to all loot being completely boring.
With the exception of the Black Spindle (hammer) all exciting and good exotics are STILL from vanilla Destiny.
We are now chasing a number instead of cool gear.
It´s been a year since I´ve heard someone scream into their headset with excitement because of a cool drop.
"GJALLLLLAHOOOOOOOOOORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Today it´s basically: "Cool, I got the helmet. Oh shit, it dropped at 307 - I´m gonna shard it"
Destiny is more broken now than it has ever been.
I´ve been saying this for a while now, but Vanilla was the best state this game was ever in.
Both previous expansion kept the content relevant while expanding the universe.
TTK has made the universe significantly smaller.
There is no reason to play the Prison of Elders.
There is no reason to play regular strikes AT ALL.
There is no reason to play the Nightfall.
There is no reason to play the old Raids.
The weird philosophy to keep PvE and PvP in balance has lead to all loot being completely boring.
With the exception of the Black Spindle (hammer) all exciting and good exotics are STILL from vanilla Destiny.
We are now chasing a number instead of cool gear.
It´s been a year since I´ve heard someone scream into their headset with excitement because of a cool drop.
"GJALLLLLAHOOOOOOOOOORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Today it´s basically: "Cool, I got the helmet. Oh shit, it dropped at 307 - I´m gonna shard it"
Destiny is more broken now than it has ever been.
The issue with this is that your level 2 gear, even normalized for damage, still sucks. Low fire rate, high spread, smaller splash damage, etc. These things make a huge difference and make it very difficult for a low level player to take on a high level, even if you get the drop on them. This is compounded by the fact you get super bonuses for doing well, and supers are game changers. Teams with a slight advantage end up doing really well, and low level players inevitably drag their team down.
KrM DeLorean
Member
I've been saying this since dark below. With every "update" older players are punished and newer players are rewarded. The more time you spend playing, the more time you end up feeling wasted. I got my moneys worth, but anyone who played this game "hardcore" ultimately looks back and feels foolish. It's like nothing I grinded for even matters now. these 320's people are grinding for week after week over and over will be meaningless when Bungie releases the next update. I'm not new to MMO's and lost hundreds of thousands of hours to them but never before have I felt like the time I put into a character was wasted until Destiny.
Kor of Memory
Member
I mean, Destiny PvP isn't meant to be balanced at any point in the game. It's not balanced as a level 40 vs a level 40, so obviously it's not going to be balanced with a level 2 vs a level 40.
That said. A lot of factors are normalized.
A level 2 Sniper is still going to 1HKO on a headshot.
A level 4 Shotgun is still going to 1HKO at melee range.
A level 3 High RoF auto rifle is going to do 12 damage per bullet, just like a level 40 High RoF auto rifle is going to do.
You're trying to argue against what is basically a fact that the community has come to accept.
DrROBschiz
Member
I would rather see sidegrades, weird and interesting perks, and build variety than see them push boring 320 gear
Loved TTK content
But you weren't encouraged to experiment nearly as much it seems despite all the new things they added
Loved TTK content
But you weren't encouraged to experiment nearly as much it seems despite all the new things they added
Glendemonium
Member
Wow they actually killed nightfall? That was one of the big weekly to do things. Sometimes it was fun to solo just because you can.
DrROBschiz
Member
Yeah gear got homogeneous so fast
You dont even look at the perks anymore. Should have introduced more perks and unexpected combinations
Its just too structured to the point of boredom
And yes I am very surprised year one content hasnt been updated yet.... Seemed like an easy way to keep things going till destiny 2
Kor of Memory
Member
I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think it was something like this
Pre TTK Nightfall loot table
35% - Exotic
35% - Legendary
15% - Strange Coins
15% - Upgrade materials (ascendant stuff)
Post TTK Nightfall loot table
10% - Exotic
15% - Legendary
20% - Legendary Ghost
20% - Strange Coins
20% - Three of Coins
15% - Cosmetic item from the Eververse (Season old emote or SRL package)
I swear to god if I get another 294 shit ghost shell from NF I am gonna bust a nut.
I've gotten tens of ghosts. Best loot table for me is 295 ghost plus 2 strange coins. Let the good times roll.
I don't understand why this is a problem (for players?)
Usually when you run out of something to do in a game you play something else? Why is this one (non subscription based) game expected to hold players attention for a solid 2+ years?
I get that it's a problem for the devs not wanting to lose their players, I just don't understand the players complaining about being bored of a game after several hundred hours of playing it.
Usually when you run out of something to do in a game you play something else? Why is this one (non subscription based) game expected to hold players attention for a solid 2+ years?
I get that it's a problem for the devs not wanting to lose their players, I just don't understand the players complaining about being bored of a game after several hundred hours of playing it.
DrROBschiz
Member
Should have made ghost shell perks more interesting and unpredictable
Like having a shell influence little combat scenarios. Ghost heals player near death or fires lasers to assist in combat...
Missed opportunities..
Kor of Memory
Member
If you read through the thread you'll find these answers.
One of the answers is It's not that the players are bored, it's that the game has content in it, that players could/would enjoy, but Bungie has decided to keep that content underleveled, and provided the players with zero incentive to play it.
The following content is in the game, but has no incentive (other than simply the experience itself) to play it:
- Vault of Glass (Raid)
- Crota's End (Raid)
- Sepik's Prime(Strike)
- Phogoth (Strike)
- Nexus (Strike)
- Archon Priest (Strike)
- Shrine of Oryx (Mission)
- The Archive (Mission)
- A Rising Tide (Mission)
- A Buried City (Mission)
That's just the PvE side of things.
Destiny currently has 27 PvP maps, but because of how Destiny weights certain maps over others, you won't see a fair share of older maps, despite them being fully functional. PvP maps that don't see much action are
- Skyshock
- Bastion
- Blind Watch
- Firebase Delphi
- First Light
- Asylum
That's not to say these maps aren't being played today, just that the chance of them showing up on average is very small. I play almost every day and I can't remember the last time I played several of those maps.
This makes Destiny players feel like they are in a vice. Because we see content disappearing behind us, and a lack of content to replace it in front of us.
Again, this is just one of the factors the community is worried about.
Edit: I forgot to include old quests that have been removed (Vanilla exotic bounties and the House of Wolves Exotic weapons). I also forgot to include the temporary Festival of the Lost quests, as well as all the content that was part of the SRL. Granted some of those items have no place in existing outside of their scheduled time frame. There is also a large list of PvP gametypes that are not readily available, but appear for one week out of every 4-8 weeks.
Nah, nothing that revolves around combat. Ghosts seem to all be based around the idea of finding additional loot. Thus, create perks like the following:
- Increased chance of finding Primary weapons from Engrams.
- Increased chance of finding Chest pieces from engrams.
- Items are more likely to drop at a higher light level (3-5).
- etc...
For me in the last 3-4 weeks its been just about 99% legendary ghost.
irrotational
Member
Some of it is that people are addicted/keen/enjoy playing Destiny and just want more to do
Some of it is that there is less to do now (of relevance) than there was before
Some of it is that they "broke" PvP by changing the matchmaking algorithm to favour skill more
Some of it is that the algorithm was changed in secret by one dept and not communicated to other parts of Bungie...so someone denied that it had been changed and then looked silly when the truth was revealed
Worst thing about that breakdown is odds are strong you will get a repeat or "worthless" legendary at a low light level
The light level thing is what stopped me from playing. Buying exotics from xur knowing I'll have to grind them all up from 280, or the long trek from a 295 ghost to 310... They were just too stingy with light level loot and it broke my incentive.
Why struggle through a nightfall when you anticipate the loot you'll get will just be trash?
DrROBschiz
Member
Honestly Legendaries are pretty boring this time around
I get that Exotics are supposed to be the gamechangers but i wouldnt be opposed to more weapons being unique
After TTK you have many more exotic chances with 3oC though. That is the trade off.
Yeah I think year 1 destiny showed the hand for like 90% of all the perks and gun frames they could ever do with their current system. A lot of my initial time in year 2 was finding gun archetypes that matched the heavy hitters of year 1. Haven't seen 1 perk in the legendary class that actually makes me play differently besides tier changes (handguns at first were shit year 2, shifted to pulse meta, and don't know where it is now)
To be honest that's the real problem to me. For a loot game, the loot I was getting just isn't changing the game enough.
True. But it made the weekly nightfall challenge weaker, which oddly seemed to be bungles goal. They stated they didn't like people feeling they had to do it week to week which always sounded odd. Nightfall burns made the challenges feel somewhat unique. For people like me that couldn't raid every day, I'd do it. Now I feel there was more incentive to grind a repeat strike or story mission if you want exotics which seems worse overall
DrROBschiz
Member
Its a side effect of having a game be constantly tuned to make sure PVP isnt broken
I dont envy them but Balance always seems to suck the fun out of using weapons in PVE
GlamFM
Banned
This is a concept I hope they give up for Destiny 2.
The "unbalanced" Y1 guns were simply more fun in PvE.
Kor of Memory
Member
This would be an acceptable trade off if that is all that was at play, but the loot that drops from the Nightfall is no longer "end-game" loot.
Before, Nightfall dropped loot that would take you up to 2 levels shy of the max light level, while exotics would take you to max.
Now, Nightfall loot drops between 260-310 when you actually get an item that can be equipped, and the odds of this item being of high enough Light Level to use are not great.
More accurately, it was the fact that people felt it required to do the Nightfall first before anything else, due to the fact that it gave you a multiplier, so it was optimal to do it first. I found myself a few times, having had a busy week, go "ah.. it's friday? I'll just wait for reset to do the nightfall and play destiny more optimally next week"
it feels like there's more choice in the activities we can do, but the current nightfall setup has made me do nightfalls like.. twice? Should try to find something in between the two extremes.
Kor of Memory
Member
The easier solution would be to have the buff last 120-168 hours instead of just kill it every Tuesday morning.
Assuming that you're not being saracastic: Yes, they do. The rewards are significant, it's a place to get gear with 310+ light without raiding.
There's also a blue 320 artifact reward when you hit rank 3.
Last month I got three characters to IB rank 5.
Anubistraveler
Member
Refuse to play this game again until Destiny 2 is launched and even then I am going to be very cautious with this franchise from now on. The lack of content that exists in the game should piss everyone off. Hopefully they will be smart and forget last gen next time around. I feel this really hurt the game because the world feels empty and generic. As it stands the game is a huge waste of money. Things like matchmaking, and side quests and additional story are necessary if they hope to keep this game alive moving forward.
Yeah the multiplier might have had that effect. And they removed that
... While also nerfing the other rewards you were hoping to get :I. There are more activities you can do now, but as a player that can't get 6 routinely for raid it almost felt there was less. Before I'd hit the dailies for materials, nightfall for multipliers and exotics, weekly for coins like clockwork. Raid if I'm lucky
Now the weekly is gone in favor of just 3 vanguard strikes a week that have a tiny map rotation. Dailies.... Haven't played in awhile and honestly forgot why they are even a thing in year 2. Nightfall a have shit rewards these days and not worth the effort. There are raid challenges, but as I said I'm lucky if I get that kind of time.
I did like the pvp weekly stuff, but the lack of rankings or progress to achieve made me less compelled to focus on it unless it's iron banner week
I feel like the changes sounded good on paper, but at the end actually broke the weekly routine that used to be destiny for me. We needed more weekly unique challenges, not grind strikes or old story missions forever which is what 3 of coins brought to the table
Yeah. I still play the nightfall but lately I've been asking myself "why". The NF faction bonus was real good, and it looked cool, too.