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[Genio88]

MS will take a 30% cut of every game sold in the W10 store as well.

Why would a developer put his game on the W10 store that everyone hates and doesn't want to use instead of Steam with its 150 million potential customers?

Right now Microsoft is not asking that, they're just putting their games in their store, indeed the "issue" here is people complaining about that. When and if Microsoft will try to bring other developers on their store what they can offer is the Xbox Live infrastructure, Azure servers and i wouldn't know what else could they try

 

[justsomeguy]

Not all apps, just the ones you download after you change it, if you want to download just Quantum Break on another drive you just change it before downloading the game, and after you're done you go there and change the location again, then yes you can't choose a specific folder where to install it, but why would you need to do that?
And besides all that, in Windows 10 you can also easily move Apps that are installed in a disk to another, for example if you install Quantum Break on Hard Disk but then you decide to move it to the SSD cause the loadings would be faster or anything, you can just go to Settings-System-Storage on top of that page it shows you all the storage disks you have on your PC, select the one where you have the game installed, then click on App and Games and it'll show a list of all the games and app installed, just click on Quantum Break and then select Move to move the game from the Hard Disk to the SSD

Great that it works. Annoying that it's so fiddly/buried.

edit: I take it back, just tried the 'move an app' stuff and it is blindingly fast to get to... altho with the caveat I only have one drive so I could only open up that page, not actually test moving it.

 

[Thicc Enigma]

No Steam, no buy. Bye. 👋

 

[viHuGi]

That makes about as much sense as not selling your retail game at Walmart.

Then when it doesn't sell well they'll use this as an excuse to say that PC game sales aren't relevant.

Not getting game on Steam already seems like a major fail, game will flop on Pc because nobody uses the Windows Store, by some reasons Apple and Google have much more apps.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

This is true but it has to be like that, Steam so far is the most used platform where to buy and play PC games, but that doesn't mean they must be the whole PC gaming, the only place where to play on PC, they're just a company who made a service, so you can't blame Microsoft, EA or Ubisoft for trying to do their owns, instead of being submitted to Valve rules and fees, Valve which actually makes most of their money from games made by other companies...
If we have to talk about PC unification(which is very unlikely) then a Windows 10 Store would make much more sense since Windows is also the OS and Microsoft at least invest in developing first party games, unlike Valve has been doing lately

Don't get me wrong. I would very much like to see Steam's grip on PC (which seems mostly due to lack of competition, not how amazingly Valve treats their customers) be loosened by others.

But making games exclusive to a particular store/ecosystem only trades one devil for another.

 

[Nzyme32]

That makes about as much sense as not selling your retail game at Walmart.

Then when it doesn't sell well they'll use this as an excuse to say that PC game sales aren't relevant.

I don't think this holds true. The idea here is to push the Windows Store and ecosystem. As much as GFWL history should keep people sceptical about PC support and there are plenty of issues with UWA among other things, there will be people who either do not care / genuinely want to give it a go / trust in their services / cave in because they want the games. It's similar to what happened with Origin and people flipping out, although Origin's success is debatable. Windows Store in my opinion for PC gaming will likely be more successful since they do have a fan base and plenty of people wanting the games. The real test will be if they support it well and if the PC folk can handle the issues that inevitably come forward.

 

[LordRaptor]

It's kinda a father vs son situation. Valve Corp doesn't smell like roses either.

Peoples problem with Valve as a monopoly are a suspicion that at some point in the future they will start to abuse it, not on any actions they have actually taken.

Peoples problems with Microsoft as a monopoly are based on historical precedent and case law.

Don't get me wrong. I would very much like to see Steam's grip on PC (which seems mostly due to lack of competition, not how amazingly Valve treats their customers) be loosened by others.

I think that's hugely unfair to the value proposition Steam offers, tbh. Nothing else is even close to offering the same featureset to either consumers or developers.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

MS will take a 30% cut of every game sold in the W10 store as well.

Why would a developer put his game on the W10 store that everyone hates and doesn't want to use instead of Steam with its 150 million potential customers?

Because it's not an either/or situation for most publishers/devs.

 

[wapplew]

Because it's not an either/or situation for most publishers/devs.

Ya, big player will continue to use whatever platform they build themselves. No 30% for MS or Valve.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

The primary issue this causes is it further fragments PC gaming. Instead of PC being a place where you can play whatever you want, how you want it, on the platform of choice, you have to sign up with a variety of services (depending on which games you want) and deal with the peculiarities of those services.

That's just part and parcel with being an open platform. You can't have one without the other.

In a world where virtually all PC gamers refused to buy from anywhere other than Steam, could the PC still be called an open platform?

We're not in that world quite yet, by the way, but we're getting there.

Ideally, all games would come DRM free and you could just backup your installers to a hard-drive, so that it wouldn't matter what store the games originally came from.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

edit: I take it back, just tried the 'move an app' stuff and it is blindingly fast to get to... altho with the caveat I only have one drive so I could only open up that page, not actually test moving it.

I actually do have two drives—an HDD that Windows is installed to, and a very small partition on an SSD for putting whatever game I'm currently playing (can't really hold more than one).

Moving Tomb Raider over to my SSD was a pretty fast/painless. I did have to look up how to do it, but on the whole it's pretty well set up.

(If you're wondering why I don't have Windows installed to my SSD, that disc is mainly for Hackintosh. I only boot into Windows when I want to play game, so I've relegated it to the slower HDD)

 

[BBboy20]

Microsoft right now use Apple as an example. You can buy an app on the iPhone run it on your tablet run it on your Mac and it works everywhere. That's what they see in Xbox, they don't want the PC store to be different because that goes against everything they're trying to do. Is that the right way to go about it, probably not since PC gamers are used to more features.

...anything that isn't a personal computer has severe limitations based on what they are...there is no reason to shoehorn such disadvantages into the ultimate device...unless you want to nickel and dime your customers.

The Win32 API was developed in a time when people were actually expected to have full control of their owned computing devices, and at this point, that is impossible for even Microsoft to change. These APIs are almost an open standard in practice these days.

Open computing platforms do not allow their platform holders to control their marketplace Apple- or Google-style, making money off of every product sold for them. Microsoft would very much like to make money off of every piece of software sold for Windows.

So, what to do? Apparently the answer is to introduce an entirely new, closed way of writing and distributing Windows "Apps", and try to migrate people to it. That would solve your open platform problem for new software while maintaining backwards compatibility for as long as it is required.

...they learned nothing, did they?

The coming mobile/desktop convergence is going to be a bloodbath.

All this Microsoft control is scaring me (again).

Durante, you have done more than most, but the argument for openness shouldn't be based around the PC community being able to fix broken shit. The shit shouldn't be broken to begin with. If they were UWAs nobody would have been able to fix them and the publishers would have gotten their asses handed to them even harder. There's no way to know what the response would have been. Everyone loves the work you did, but cleaning up their mess could equally cause them to not improve. That said, I AM super happy you were able to do something.

...why are you giving businesses the benefit of the doubt? Having as many avenues as possible to fix something is always a good thing...why willing to corner yourself?

I made that expression before even seeing that.

I couldn't give a shit what storefront a game is tied to, if it's good I will give it a chance. Not buying a game just on that merit is petty as fuck.

Wow, even you're a disappointment.

Plenty of people have said that, maybe take your own advice in that regard? The other criticisms simply lack foresight and assuming that Microsoft do not make changes in the future where you can do modifications which require a local copy of the .exe.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice...

Jezus christ. 32 pages already.
Meanwhile the Quantum Break preview thread "only" have 18 pages..

Well, at least it's about the future of PC.

Yes IT IS, or have you not trawled for the posts of 'no steam no buy'?

READ. THE. THREAD!

A consumer has the right to complain and in fact should be as vocal as possible. It's the only way to improve products and services. Companies are better for it.

See: Xbox One.

Well, I'm not really asking for your advice, or for you to resolve the situation in any way. I'm engaging in this discussion to learn more about this, so your comment about "no point kicking of about it" is a bit arrogant really. It's not like it's up to you to decide whether or not the discussion has run it's course.

This thread has been useful for me, considering that I went into this thread with the stance that I felt it was a shame that Microsoft has decided to use this store for a game like that, and here learnt more about the difference between the Win10 apps and proper PC games, by Durantes excellent summary and posts from other people, and what that has for implications for how we will be able to use the product we buy through their store.

...I wanted to think maybe only using this "store" to buy, at least, Quantum Break and, hypothetically, Scalebound wouldn't entirely contribute to this scary direction of Windows but...if they are that determined to just not bring one exclusive to Steam from here on out and value logging into this "store" more then even sales...god damn it.

Amen. I'll be sticking with W7 for the foreseeable future.

Well, so long there is no forced install, I think I'll do the same.

I was one of them. But we all wanted that HL2 and here we are today.

...oh shit, Minecraft!

Wow...thats all I have

Those are the facts rather you want to believe them or not.

 

[Costia]

So, I made a windows store app in visual studio, let VS package and sign it (it generates it's own temp certificate for the project). Tested installing and running it in the windows store and it worked (as expected, since this is the process you are supposed to go through "by the book").
Now to editing:
I took the signed appx and extracted it (It's a zip file). I changed a few of the resources and then manually repackaged it and signed with a different certificate of my own (locally generated). And as before, the windows store had no problem installing the modified version and running it.
So it looks like the only restriction on modifying the app is that you can't use the original dev's signature (since you have to sign it, but you don't have his private key) and have to sign it yourself.

I have tried the same with the mincraft app - I modified the splash screen. It launched with the modified splash-screen and then crashed. Either i missed something in my local app test or maybe the minecraft store app crashed due to "regular" built-in DRM.

So overall I would say it's inconclusive, but after reading some of the posts here I have expected to hit a lot more brick walls.
The reason I didn't try modifying the executable files is because i am not familiar with the bytecode/binary format and have no idea how to make a visible change that won't be just a crash, and a crash is pointless since it won't prove that the app can actually run after being modified.

So maybe it's only dll injection that's being restricted? I have also tried using PLMdebug and just windbg itself as is, and both methods had no trouble attaching to the store app process (which would suggest you can mess around with it at runtime as well). But again, this is already binary/bytecode code, and i don't have much experience with it, so maybe i am missing something here.

 

[cakely]

I finally got through the entire thread, wow.

The two things I got out of it:

1. UWP has a vocal defense force, and they're actually pretty rude.
   
2. This was "read the thread", the thread.

Me, personally, I'm not interested in buying games for an IOS-like "walled garden" on my PC. I will be passing on Quantum Break for Windows. I can purchase it on my Xbox One, instead.

 

[shiyrley]

How can people defend a store that blocks you from accessing the exe, modding the game at all or even using any kind of overlay? (fraps, msi afterburner, etc aka you can't even check your FPS etc). It doesn't even allow to use exclusive fulscreen, SLI or Gsync

Allow me to repeat:

You can't use exclusive fullscreen, Gsync, SLI, overlays, mod the game, or access the exe. (you can access the exe tweaking some stuff you shouldn't even need to tweak in the first place but even if you do you can't do anything with it)

Like, seriously, what? Why would any USER defend this? I don't understand, I'm legit confused. Like, I would be okay if it released Origin or even Uplay, but the W10 store is a joke. (W10 itself is great though)

 

[mcrommert]

How can people defend a store that blocks you from accessing the exe, modding the game at all or even using any kind of overlay? (fraps, msi afterburner, etc aka you can't even check your FPS etc). It doesn't even allow to use exclusive fulscreen, SLI or Gsync

Allow me to repeat:

You can't use exclusive fullscreen, Gsync, SLI, overlays, mod the game, or access the exe. (you can access the exe tweaking some stuff you shouldn't even need to tweak in the first place but even if you do you can't do anything with it)

Like, seriously, what? Why would any USER defend this? I don't understand, I'm legit confused. Like, I would be okay if it released Origin or even Uplay, but the W10 store is a joke. (W10 itself is great though)

For the last time...overlays work though a lot of current ones don't...currently. Sli works...rise had a specific issue. Gsync just doesn't work with rise...there is no reason it can't work with other games.

 

[Akronis]

For the last time...overlays work though a lot of current ones don't...currently. Sli works...rise had a specific issue. Gsync just doesn't work with rise...there is no reason it can't work with other games.

What's your problem with voicing concerns over something that has no guarantee if it will actually be fixed?

 

[mcrommert]

What's your problem with voicing concerns over something that has no guarantee if it will actually be fixed?

Because what he says is straight up misinformation...he says "You can't use..." Which isn't true.

 

[mcrommert]

I finally got through the entire thread, wow.

The two things I got out of it:

1. UWP has a vocal defense force, and they're actually pretty rude.
   
2. This was "read the thread", the thread.

Me, personally, I'm not interested in buying games for an IOS-like "walled garden" on my PC. I will be passing on Quantum Break for Windows. I can purchase it on my Xbox One, instead.

So you won't buy a game on pc because its in a "walled garden" and instead will buy on xbox one which has a walled garden...ok

Also if you preorder you get both

 

[Akronis]

So you won't buy a game on pc because its in a "walled garden" and instead will buy on xbox one which has a walled garden...ok

Also if you preorder you get both

One is supposed to be a free platform and the other has been a walled garden from the start and every other option was a walled garden.

He's supporting the one that isn't going to change. PC should stay the way it is instead of Microsoft trying to "help" PC gamers again for 10th failed time.

 

[OnionPowder]

So you won't buy a game on pc because its in a "walled garden" and instead will buy on xbox one which has a walled garden...ok

Also if you preorder you get both

If I buy a physical copy on my Xbox it'll work in 10 years, if I buy a digital copy on my PC then I have no guarantee if it working in the future if it's only through the Windows Store. Plus you're basically using a console on the windows store.

I think that's where that mindset is coming from.

 

[gamz]

If I buy a physical copy on my Xbox it'll work in 10 years, if I buy a digital copy on my PC then I have no guarantee if it working in the future if it's only through the Windows Store. Plus you're basically using a console on the windows store.

I think that's where that mindset is coming from.

What if you buy a digital game on Xbox One. Are you still worried?

 

[OnionPowder]

What if you buy a digital game on Xbox One. Are you still worried?

Yep

 

[mcrommert]

If I buy a physical copy on my Xbox it'll work in 10 years, if I buy a digital copy on my PC then I have no guarantee if it working in the future if it's only through the Windows Store. Plus you're basically using a console on the windows store.

I think that's where that mindset is coming from.

Understood. But PC gamers also mainly use steam and the same problem is there...has nothing to do with the store and more to do with digital delivery. Also the Windows store actually has better offline management...as after you install the game you don't have to switch to an offline mode or anything...it just works...forever

One is supposed to be a free platform and the other has been a walled garden from the start and every other option was a walled garden.

He's supporting the one that isn't going to change. PC should stay the way it is instead of Microsoft trying to "help" PC gamers again for 10th failed time.

I would question how open a platform is when games come with loads of drm even on steam. But also this is the only way these games would ever be available on the PC. Even when halo 2 came out on the pc it was not employing cross play with the xbox players. With this platform we will get games like halo and gears and be able to play them cross platform with xbox players. Its a good trade. And steam and its ilk will continue to be available.

 

[Algebrah]

Ideally, everything would be purchasable on Steam. Realistically, many companies want to make money and manage their own service.

It's annoying but I don't really blame Microsoft for their choice.

 

[OnionPowder]

Understood. But PC gamers also mainly use steam and the same problem is there...has nothing to do with the store and more to do with digital delivery. Also the Windows store actually has better offline management...as after you install the game you don't have to switch to an offline mode or anything...it just works...forever

Steam has a track record of over 10 years of all your purchases staying with you. Microsoft has a track record of it not, and them not giving a fuck about you. You can manage to store an online copy but then the storage for the game becomes my responsibility once they say fuck it to the W10 store and your purchases on it. Even delisted games on Steam can still be re-downloaded.

A lot of people seem to forgive microsoft like they're a human who makes mistakes, but they're really just a corporation who doesn't give a fuck about you. You don't reward companies for that, you reward them for showing continued appreciation for their customers.

That being said, I just go in with the mindset with Microsoft that my purchase doesn't grant me shit and move on with my life. A lot of people won't and therefore they will avoid it. It just doesn't help that the storefront has proven to be shit for PC games.

 

[cakely]

So you won't buy a game on pc because its in a "walled garden" and instead will buy on xbox one which has a walled garden...ok

Also if you preorder you get both

Gaming consoles like the Xbox One are walled gardens: closed environments where I don't expect to perform modifications on the software. When I buy a game for a console, I sacrifice flexibility for convenience. I'm fine with that.

My PC is the opposite of a walled garden: I have a CLI, various editors, and compilers. I can freely modify any file that I want. I assembled the hardware, and I can tweak the software anyway I please.

Your sarcasm isn't appropriate here. The reasons behind my decision are perfectly sound.

 

[Akronis]

I would question how open a platform is when games come with loads of drm even on steam. But also this is the only way these games would ever be available on the PC. Even when halo 2 came out on the pc it was not employing cross play with the xbox players. With this platform we will get games like halo and gears and be able to play them cross platform with xbox players. Its a good trade. And steam and its ilk will continue to be available.

It's open because you don't have the OS or computer manufacturer making stupid decisions and forcing them on users.

 

[LordRaptor]

I would question how open a platform is when games come with loads of drm even on steam.

Openness of a platform has nothing to do with DRM or anti-piracy measures.

When people say the PC has traditionally been an open platform, they are saying that there is no 'gatekeeper' preventing you from making a program that runs on it without obeying their rules or paying them a tithe to be allowed to do so.

 

[mcrommert]

Openness of a platform has nothing to do with DRM or anti-piracy measures.

When people say the PC has traditionally been an open platform, they are saying that there is no 'gatekeeper' preventing you from making a program that runs on it without obeying their rules or paying them a tithe to be allowed to do so.

And that hasn't changed. Both win32 and uwa programs can be sideloaded.

 

[paperspace]

For the last time...overlays work though a lot of current ones don't...currently. Sli works...rise had a specific issue. Gsync just doesn't work with rise...there is no reason it can't work with other games.

Overlays (as we know it) doesn't work.

The current Dxtory workaround isn't an overlay per-se, it's simply a GUI on top of the app-screen. It wouldn't work in fullscreen exclusive mode.

 

[shiyrley]

Overlays doesn't work.

The current Dxtory workaround isn't an overlay per-se, it's simply a GUI on top of the app-screen. It wouldn't work in fullscreen exclusive mode.

shhhh, please don't comment facts that are not helpful in trying to defend a storefront that provides exactly zero benefits and many drawbacks / restrictions that were never a thing before. It's already a hard task in itself, let the poor man be.

people are defending a type of app that won't allow even the most basic of stuff, and blocks any kind of modding. They want to treat the PC as a console (same limitations) and there are real persons defending it. I'm literally speechless. Seriously.

We are not Steam fanboys. We just want the game on any platform BUT Windows Store because it has never-before seen limitations that make absolutely no sense.

 

[mcrommert]

Overlays (as we know it) doesn't work.

The current Dxtory workaround isn't an overlay per-se, it's simply a GUI on top of the app-screen. It wouldn't work in fullscreen exclusive mode.

Well there isn't any fullscreen exclusive mode...so no problem

I know how little most people here want to hear this...but i hear that an overlay system is coming

 

[shiyrley]

Well there isn't any fullscreen exclusive mode...so no problem

I know how little most people here want to hear this...but i hear that an overlay system is coming

"ah yes, exclusive fullscreen, that's ANOTHER feature that's blocked in windows store apps! So yeah, the overlay problem isn't an issue anymore. "

 

[LordRaptor]

And that hasn't changed. Both win32 and uwa programs can be sideloaded.

I'm not sure you understand the reservations people have; it doesn't take a great degree of tinfoil hattery to foresee future versions of windows marginalising how Win32 apps behave (for example by default forbidding any win32 app network connections, or the ability to modify files, or write to the hard drive, or other things generally needed in games) in favour of the 'security' of UWA. UWA being only available from MS, using an MS account.

It is not even a little bit paranoid to distrust MS motivations in creating a walled garden store that they are the sole vendors and proprietors for.

 

[MaLDo]

Well there isn't any fullscreen exclusive mode...so no problem

Yeah, no. Because no exclusive fullscreen mode IS A PROBLEM.

 

[mcrommert]

I'm not sure you understand the reservations people have; it doesn't take a great degree of tinfoil hattery to foresee future versions of windows marginalising how Win32 apps behave (for example by default forbidding any win32 app network connections, or the ability to modify files, or write to the hard drive, or other things generally needed in games) in favour of the 'security' of UWA. UWA being only available from MS, using an MS account.

It is not even a little bit paranoid to distrust MS motivations in creating a walled garden store that they are the sole vendors and proprietors for.

Because thats absolutely insane. Thousands upon thousands of applications have been written over decades for that platform on the consumer and business side. Corporations are mainly self serving. Any issues that people have had with windows releases would pale to this and the press would be horrific. Also MIcrosoft has a long history of supporting legacy platforms for decades after they have become legacy. DOS was supported for a very long time as was win16. And on top of that microsoft does not consider win32 to be a legacy platform...they are still developing for it and working on it

 

[Akronis]

Because thats absolutely insane. Thousands upon thousands of applications have been written over decades for that platform on the consumer and business side. Corporations are mainly self serving. Any issues that people have had with windows releases would pale to this and the press would be horrific. Also MIcrosoft has a long history of supporting legacy platforms for decades after they have become legacy. DOS was supported for a very long time as was win16. And on top of that microsoft does not consider win32 to be a legacy platform...they are still developing for it and working on it

Ok then lets make this easier.

What benefits does UWA provide to the consumers that overrides the potential loss of features that make the PC platform so alluring?

 

[LordRaptor]

Because thats absolutely insane. Thousands upon thousands of applications have been written over decades for that platform on the consumer and business side.

And ever since Windows releases were split into "home" and "corporate" editions, more and more features that power users have found convenient have become "pro only" functionality.
The fact that MS internally refer to win32 executables as "legacy" applications is pretty clear where they want to take Windows, and it is only consumer push back that can do anything about that.

As I say, it is not even remotely paranoid to distrust the motivations behind UWA and the Windows Store.

 

[Durante]

Right now Microsoft is not asking that, they're just putting their games in their store, indeed the "issue" here is people complaining about that.

I don't know which people you are talking about here.

But I'm not complaining about the store. I'm complaining about the packaging and executable format.

And ever since Windows releases were split into "home" and "corporate" editions, more and more features that power users have found convenient have become "pro only" functionality.
The fact that MS internally refer to win32 executables as "legacy" applications is pretty clear where they want to take Windows, and it is only consumer push back that can do anything about that.

As I say, it is not even remotely paranoid to distrust the motivations behind UWA and the Windows Store.

Pretty much.

 

[GHG]

People defending UWA with their lives. People commending Bethseda for increasing the price of their season pass.

What a world we live in.

 

[Durante]

And that hasn't changed. Both win32 and uwa programs can be sideloaded.

The very fact that you need to "sideload" something on a PC is repulsive.

 

[aravuus]

People commending Bethseda for increasing the price of their season pass.

??? What

 

[Shenmue]

I don't know which people you are talking about here.

But I'm not complaining about the store. I'm complaining about the packaging and executable format.

Pretty much.

I honestly don't get how anyone who's a core gamer (people on Neogaf) could not get what we are arguing here when they should know the countless games you've fixed for us on PC, that now can't happen with these W10 apps.

People who are still arguing against some imaginary strawman that people just want it on steam because "lol steam fanboys" please go Google Durante and pc games and then come back here hopefully enlightened when your realize the way Microsoft currently packages PC games, all of that is impossible.

 

[derFeef]

And ever since Windows releases were split into "home" and "corporate" editions, more and more features that power users have found convenient have become "pro only" functionality.
The fact that MS internally refer to win32 executables as "legacy" applications is pretty clear where they want to take Windows, and it is only consumer push back that can do anything about that.

As I say, it is not even remotely paranoid to distrust the motivations behind UWA and the Windows Store.

But it's not working and they must see the resistance against it. No idea why they still do that. I know people are afraid of GFWL2.0 but an actual client by MS with games as executables is something they should have gone for.

 

[Pantaghana]

Could modding work on UWAs if it was officially supported?
Because if modding is not possible even then, some publishers will never release their games there.

 

[mcrommert]

I honestly don't get how anyone who's a core gamer (people on Neogaf) could not get what we are arguing here when they should know the countless games you've fixed for us on PC, that now can't happen with these W10 apps.

People who are still arguing against some imaginary strawman that people just want it on steam because "lol steam fanboys" please go Google Durante and pc games and then come back here hopefully enlightened when your realize the way Microsoft currently packages PC games, all of that is impossible.

I guess when badly written and optimized games come out on windows store we will just not buy them

 

[jelly]

So Microsoft want to turn Windows into the iOS of desktops which is turn makes tablet and mobile efforts work for them. Doesn't that kinda kill innovation and tinkering if you go that far. Building walls, not breaking them.

 

[Durante]

How can people defend a store that blocks you from accessing the exe, modding the game at all or even using any kind of overlay? (fraps, msi afterburner, etc aka you can't even check your FPS etc)
[...]
Like, seriously, what? Why would any USER defend this? I don't understand, I'm legit confused. Like, I would be okay if it released Origin or even Uplay, but the W10 store is a joke.

I honestly have no idea.

So Microsoft want to turn Windows into the iOS of desktops which is turn makes tablet and mobile efforts work for them. Doesn't that kinda kill innovation and tinkering if you go that far. Building walls, not breaking them.

Sure it does, but one has to assume that MS' thought process is that users innovating and tinkering isn't making billions for Apple.

 

[Shenmue]

I guess when badly written and optimized games come out on windows store we will just not buy them

Great let's just make it an all or nothing proposition. No thanks. I'd rather continue making noise and hopefully with enough noise from enough people MS sees the error of its ways and changes its mind. We've seen this happen multiple times already.

I dunno what your feelings are but myself and others here want to see MS succeed in the PC space and want to play their games. Their current course sets them up for failure in the PC space once again.

PC players are not Apple casuals. We will not appreciate the no fuss, our-way-or-the-highway "app" concept that Apple employs to great success.