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[sphagnum]

Guys, Bernie voters aren't going to swing the vote to Trump just like Hillary voters didn't sabotage Obama in 08. Bernie will concede at some point, then give a nice speech at the convention about how he and Hillary have differences of opinion on certain matters but I know I can trust her on this and I know I can trust her on that, wall street, income inequality, rah rah let's go beat the Republicans.

For my part, I'll have to see what the race looks like in NJ before I vote for Hillary. I always vote my conscience unless the race is too close to risk it, so if Trump (who will almost certainly be the GOP nom) is somehow within 10% of Hillary in NJ by November then I'll vote for her, otherwise I'll throw my vote to whoever the PSL candidate is.

 

[Geist-]

Well, I like them both, so it's a win-win. My one complaint about Hillary is how much of a Hawk she is. Otherwise I would be equally happy with either candidate.

 

[SolarPowered]

Not sure why so much pessimism for Bernie. Nevada was supposed to be Hillary's first firewall, if he broke the insane lead down to within a 5 point loss that's a win for him. You know, like how Hillary was trying to spin a <10 point loss in NH as a win before getting crushed.

I've only gotten into politics because of Bernie and I'll be abstaining if Hillary is the nominee.

On to SC/Super Tuesday, it's a long way til it's over.

Prepare for the heat.

 

[Trouble]

Been saying for years the black vote is the most pragmatic in the USA

2008 primary would be an exception to that rule, I think. Although Obama turned out to be a far more pragmatic president than I think anyone expected.

 

[Maledict]

I'm amendment say Trump could not beat Bernie in the general. Not even O'Malley! Independents don't like Trump and they choose presidents.

No they don't. If they did, Romney would be president - he led with independents in Ohio. That's why his team was so confident of a win, and why Rove had a meltdown - they were leading with Independants, and yet lost by a hefty margins and a large number of EVs.

A large amount of 'Independants' are republicans who don't want to say they are.

 

[Ashodin]

Congrats hillary. Just remember, a democrat is way better than any of the republicans this race, even if the one you want isn't the nom.

 

[Horns]

Not sure why so much pessimism for Bernie. Nevada was supposed to be Hillary's first firewall, if he broke the insane lead down to within a 5 point loss that's a win for him. You know, like how Hillary was trying to spin a <10 point loss in NH as a win before getting crushed.

I've only gotten into politics because of Bernie and I'll be abstaining if Hillary is the nominee.

On to SC/Super Tuesday, it's a long way til it's over.

Support my candidate or I won't bother to vote. Not exactly the supporters who are going to convince me to support their candidate.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Yeah, but the key difference here is that Obama is far, far more likable than Hilary.

She technically had more votes in the Dem 2008 primary.

I think either Hillary or Obama would have won in 2008. The implosion in our banking system saw to that, but it's not like she doesn't excite a big chunk of the Dem electorate.

And this fall she'll have herself, Obama, her husband, and Bernie campaigning.

Each does their work right, and barring another economic implosion, massive attack etc,. I think Hillary should have a damn easy time getting the presidency.

Trump might be the master of the Rep field. But that's being the best loser in a field of the biggest low energy losers the world has ever seen!

 

[User 463088]

So Hillary will now be the democratic nominee or how's the system in US?

I mean, until such time as she has enough delegates, she's not 100% the nominee.

However, Nevada was Bernie's best chance to prove he could win where it wasn't overwhelmingly white and ultra liberal. Since he failed to do that, he's got problems. He'll be destroyed next week in SC, and the states that vote on Super Tuesday aren't looking good for him.

So, there's still a lot of votes to be cast, but he really, really needed to win here if he wanted to have a shot at this thing.

 

[Slayven]

That's because there's no reasoning involved. People who shift from Bernie to Trump aren't critically thinking about the actual politics, they're just following the anti-establishment cults of personality.

Must be nice to have no skin in the game, or think you don't have any skin in the game

Must be nice

 

[shintoki]

Bernie is up around 8% amongst Latino voters in Nevada. The black vote and old people are really for Hillary though.

I really don't see Hillary as more electable in November. She is a very divisive figure and her favorable/unfavorable ratings are firmly on the negative side. Republicans and independents don't like her...heck some democrats don't like her. Independents decide elections and they are for Bernie but in some of these primaries (like Maryland) they can't even vote. It's going to be very interesting what happens in November. If the republicans nominate Trump I would give her a slight edge. If they nominate Cruz she will crush him. If they nominate someone like Rubio or maybe even Kasich I think her goose is cooked.

Hillary's battle is going to be to get people motivated to come out and vote for her. She is the run of the mill democratic coming off Obama. She can't draw any excitement out of the crowd like Obama, and to a lesser extent Bernie can.

The best thing to happen to her is Trump running. Hopefully he can generate enough ill will towards the party to get people to vote for anyone but Trump. Otherwise, if the Republicans throw someone like Rubio at her. It's going to be a close call. I think she is far and above better, but Dems are always weak to the polls while the Republicans will come out in force once again.

 

[Kyosaiga]

Been saying for years the black vote is the most pragmatic in the USA

My family looks at politics as who will fuck us over the least.

At present moment it's the Democratic "establishment".

In some alternate universe where the GOP became a champion of black rights and were genuine about it, we'd switch in a goddamn heartbeat.

 

[Kickz]

The conspiracy theories are getting tired.

The union in question didn't even endorse Hillary.

Yea they were officially going to stay out of it until Reid made the call

 

[JHoNNy1OoO]

Expected win for Hillary in Nevada. I'll be voting for Bernie here in Florida even though I am a Hillary supporter. I would like him to stay in it as long as possible because it will be better for Hillary. Gotta keep her hungry and not taking anything for granted.

She'll eat Trump for breakfast in the General.

 

[Blader]

I heard Hillary had Harry Reid make a call to a powerful union to come and caucus with its 50k members.. In a caucus of about 500,000 thats some shady dealings..

Um, neither Reid nor the Culinary Union endorsed Hillary, and even if they did there's nothing shady about endorsing a candidate.

 

[Error404SwagNotFound]

That's because there's no reasoning involved. People who shift from Bernie to Trump aren't critically thinking about the actual politics, they're just following the anti-establishment cults of personality.

It's really not much different than people throwing their votes to Hillary just to vote based on party lines, when she's very different than Sanders.

 

[rjinaz]

Not sure why so much pessimism for Bernie. Nevada was supposed to be Hillary's first firewall, if he broke the insane lead down to within a 5 point loss that's a win for him. You know, like how Hillary was trying to spin a <10 point loss in NH as a win before getting crushed.

I've only gotten into politics because of Bernie and I'll be abstaining if Hillary is the nominee.

On to SC/Super Tuesday, it's a long way til it's over.

Look. I don't blame any Bernie supporter holding out until Super Tuesday which is pretty damn close. But, I went in this knowing that if Bernie didn't take Nevada, a state with a low Black vote, he wasn't going to win this. He is going to get killed in the South and that's going to end his run, it just is.

 

[royalan]

The following is said only semi-jokingly:

Now we see if Bernie can deliver a "YES WE CAN" level speech.

As someone who initially supported Hillary in 2008, even I felt that speech. Obama turned a NH loss into national momentum with a concession speech.

 

[Clefargle]

Yep, agreed. They were just voting anti-politics and will continue to do so with a Trump vote. Hillary is still great if you are a progressive.

Yeah it seems like a lot of Sanders and Trumps supporters overlap under the anti-establishment banner. They may self identify as progressive, independent, libertarian, or even tea-party. But the common thing they all care about in this election is that their candidate isn't a career politician or beholden to corporate interest. It's true that this theme is clearly important to America in this race, but not the only one. it's also clear that minorities are worried about their immediate survival or legal status. Which makes sense considering the police system, judicial systems, prison industrial complex, and immigration rhetoric from trump et al. Bernie has to pull a lot from Clinton's firewall ASAP. There is no path forward for him after SC if he doesn't really cut into Clinton's minority support in the south. Somethings got to give.

 

[darkside31337]

Bernie wouldnt want that if he loses. He'd want you to vote for HIllary

I don't agree with that honestly. Bernie has been a registered democrat for less than a year. He's never done shit for party building within his own state. The idea that hes going to throw his weight fully behind Hillary if/when he loses is something everyone assumes will happen but the guy has been an independent his entire political career (until he no longer found that to be opportune) for a reason.

 

[Joni]

Expected win for Hillary in Nevada. I'll be voting for Bernie here in Florida even though I am a Hillary supporter. I would like him to stay in it as long as possible because it will be better for Hillary. Gotta keep her hungry and not taking anything for granted.

She'll eat Trump for breakfast in the General.

Wouldn't that be wasting money that is better spent in the general?

 

[Empty]

Yeah, but the key difference here is that Obama is far, far more likable than Hilary.

idk i'd say the key difference is that the need for a dem president seemed more urgent after two catastrophic bush terms than after two often frustrating obama terms

if you're a twenty year old bernie supporter you were just a kid during the bulk of the bush era. you don't realize how bad it was - and bush is to to the left of every plausible republican candidate this time.

i'm a bit worried. it's vital to have everyone on board.

 

[crimsonspider89]

Must be nice to have no skin in the game, or think you don't have any skin in the game

Must be nice

I do have issues involved.

This was before Trump went full blown The Fuhrer.

Figured a hyper conservative idiot as a President would make a liberal shift in the country politics.

 

[Agent_Carnage]

Im voting Clinton as she has best chance to win in the general. I like Bernie alot but I have doubts in the general.

 

[exmachina64]

WELP

Bernie better find another rapper he's never heard of to pander with on the road to the South.

What's Birdman up to these days?

Tyga

 

[Touchdown]

Haha. I caucused for her in Iowa. The posts are pathetic.



Especially since I'm on the poster's 'side'.

Don't call my posts pathetic sis, I don't take kindly to it. There's a few posts of yours I don't agree with that I find a little pathetic but I keep my head above it. You're messing with the wrong one. I have the right to post my opinions and jubilation just as everyone else does here. Deal with it.

The following is said only semi-jokingly:

Now we see if Bernie can deliver a "YES WE CAN" level speech.

As someone who initially supported Hillary in 2008, even I felt that speech. Obama turned a NH loss into national momentum with a concession speech.

Yeah it was from this point that I went all in for Obama. The NH concession speech was amazing. My whole family became Obama supporters after that.

 

[Slayven]

2008 primary would be an exception to that rule, I think. Although Obama turned out to be a far more pragmatic president than I think anyone expected.

But didn't they switch until well after Obama proved viable?

My family looks at politics as who will fuck us over the least.

At present moment it's the Democratic "establishment".

In some alternate universe where the GOP became a champion of black rights and were genuine about it, we'd switch in a goddamn heartbeat.

You just described the history of voting while black in America.

 

[Jay-Hova]

????????????

Meltdown.

 

[Tubie]

while true, I'm convinced that hillary would do better in the GE vs. Trump (again, ignore current polling because it represents a sanders that has escaped the republican attack machine) and democrats need as wide a margin as humanly possible to take back the house and senate over the next couple of cycles.

simply squeaking out a win won't do it. Democrats need to crush the republicans with women, minorities, etc and bernie's coalition is notably NOT able to do this.

Oh I agree with you, Hillary is the best candidate for the Democrats.

And yea, Trump v Hillary would probably give us a better chance to flip some house and senate seats to D.

What I was pointing out is that I just don't see how Trump could win any of the states he needs to win in the GE against literally ANY Democrat.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Yea they were officially going to stay out of it until Reid made the call

As I understand it all the union did was negotiate with the businesses to allow workers time off to vote.

If giving more people the opportunity to vote is shady, then I am going to go find a back room and light a cigar.

 

[fantomena]

Im voting Clinton as she has best chance to win in the general. I like Bernie alot but I have doubts in the general.

I personally think that if that's how the democracy in US makes people think then it's not very democratic.

 

[Shoyz]

Support my candidate or I won't bother to vote. Not exactly the supporters who are going to convince me to support their candidate.

I was giving my input on the 'Bernie supporters going for Trump' discussion, not trying to convince you. I'm not a fan of voting for a lesser evil, I don't like Trump and I don't like Hillary. Maybe I'll vote for Jill Stein for that funding idea.

 

[RPGCrazied]

but I'd vote for Hillary WAAAAAY before any of the GOP wackos.

More people need to see this.

 

[Kusagari]

Independents, real ones and not Republicans that are too embarrassed to admit they're actual Republicans, are some of the most fickle and wish-washy voters ever. Just because they like Bernie now doesn't mean they'll like him in November when 200m in ads are getting blasted everywhere painting him as a communist lover and who knows what else.

 

[Livingskeletons]

Trump vs Hilary debate will be entertaining.

 

[rjinaz]

I don't agree with that honestly. Bernie has been a registered democrat for less than a year. He's never done shit for party building within his own state. The idea that hes going to throw his weight fully behind Hillary if/when he loses is something everyone assumes will happen but the guy has been an independent his entire political career (until he no longer found that to be opportune) for a reason.

Nah. Bernie may be independent but he is still a social democrat. He's not an independent that is a libertarian or a moderate. He will not want any of those Republicans as President, period. He will come out and encourage all of his supporters to vote Hillary. Bank on it.

 

[Manmademan]

I get that but these things are hypothetical. I'm seeing what the data is actually showing, not what it might show. We don't KNOW what will happen. Maybe that will, maybe it wont. I do KNOW many people don't like Hillary. And I can't see it getting much better because she is so well known. Also years of beating up Hillary hurts her imo.

this isn't rocket science. Do you think bernie's favorability will simply be immune to the media assault that would start once he gained the nomination? Especially since bernie himself refuses to use a SuperPAC that would allow him to respond?

He'd get fucking destroyed and that favorability would drop like a rock. Republicans can, will, and have assaulted democrats in ways that democratic challengers will not. You don't even need to dig all that deep to find shit that will damn him. He's got all kinds of stupid shit in his history about supporting castro and the nicaraguan sandinistas. Imagine seeing that shit on repeat 24 hours a day in the flyover states.

Progressives might not care, but that shit is TOXIC with independents.

 

[Averon]

I knew Bernie was a longshot, but it still stings. Damn, not really enthused at all for voting for Hilary in November. The gloating and rubbing salt in the wounds doesn't help none either.

 

[Mr. RPG]

You guys are really hosti!e.

Why do you guys keep fighting?

 

[Agent_Carnage]

I personally think that if that's how the demcoracy in US makes people think then it's not very democratic.

The point of the primary is to get the person most likey to win in the general. I think Sanders is iffy. With so much at stake I take take the risk of getting someone Im not fully committed towards.

 

[JHoNNy1OoO]

Wouldn't that be wasting money that is better spent in the general?

The same was said during the Obama/Clinton race. Point is it keeps people engaged and that is a lot more important than money. Especially when you can raise money whenever you want in the general.

 

[Crashdown]

You guys are really hosti!e.

Why do you guys keep fighting?

#politics

 

[Slayven]

Trump vs Hilary debate will be entertaining.

I think Hillary would school him.

 

[Piggus]

There is a huge difference between Hillary voters and Bernie voters. The Youth Vote is already one that needs to be pushed hard to even bother to vote. Bernie was the fire under their ass to make them care. That fire going out can just as quickly bring back typical youth indifference to voting.

I would imagine Bernie will do a lot to get his supporters to support Hillary should he not get the nomination. I'm optimistic in believing that his supporters aren't stupid enough to let Trump or Cruz get elected.

 

[Trouble]

I don't agree with that honestly. Bernie has been a registered democrat for less than a year. He's never done shit for party building within his own state. The idea that hes going to throw his weight fully behind Hillary if/when he loses is something everyone assumes will happen but the guy has been an independent his entire political career (until he no longer found that to be opportune) for a reason.

Bernie has caucused with Democrats the entire time he's been a Senator. The idea that he won't endorse HIllary when she gets the nomination is laughable.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Trump vs Hilary debate will be entertaining.

He wouldn't win. Hell, I've seen a lot of Republicans say they would vote for her if Trump was the nominee.

That speaks volumes if Republicans say they would vote for a Democrat than to have Trump in the white house.

 

[Foffy]

Well, I mean it like this, if you are a progressive, then Hillary really isn't all that bad especially in this political climate. This political climate being what it is, I think Hillary is realistically all we could hope for. It's great to see that Bernie did waaaay better than I think most people expected ,but in the end, it was always going to be somebody not trying to push things too far left. Half the country, or close to it, votes Republican after all.

Indeed. Half of the country, and pardon me from being so blanketed and rude, is a fucking anchor that is sinking the wellbeing of society as things are gearing up to get worse in terms of many factors. I almost feel contempt for such people, because their lack of reason and reasoning bullshit fucks over so many. Republicans being anti-reason and all of that jazz.

If I were to name the three things that I think must happen for any society that wishes to consider itself developed, it would be to have decent health care, a minimum wage decoupled from labor, and to deal with climate change as 'macro' level problems. Most Republicans in office won't even acknowledge why those things need to even be entertained, and we're like a train that is accelerated as we see the bridge ahead of us missing. This risks becoming a big uh oh, especially as the left also fails to aim for true solutions but futile games of patchwork. Nobody is really paying attention at the wheel, here. Many assume we have more time than perhaps we do to prepare, but human history has always shown us we wait too late to prepare for anything.

But maybe I expect too much reason and preparation. After all, the human experience is always one that makes problems, and that's how it promotes solutions in the first place. Maybe all of this just has to get worse, and I imagine it must and will. I don't feel comfortable saying that, but maybe people have to lose everything before we get our shit together, which I would hope we could avoid, but obviously won't.

 

[LostMyNarbles]

I hope the younger crowd that Bernie attracts doesn't decide to just skip the election when he drops out. Having those kind of people go out and vote for the House/Senate election could do a lot of good for the DNC.

 

[royalan]

You guys are really hosti!e.

Why do you guys keep fighting?

Nobody's really fighting...

 

[Aaron Strife]

Bernie polls better in general election match-ups right now because he hasn't endured negative campaigning for 25 years the way Hillary has. I don't think his numbers would hold up at all.

In fact there was a TPM story recently about some polling outfit who message tested the most likely attacks against Bernie and how it affected his head-to-head numbers. Bernie went from leading all of the Republicans to trailing all of them heavily. All that swing voters/soft conservatives know about him right now is that he's not Hillary and he's not part of the establishment. I'm not very confident they'd stick by him after finding out what his platform is.