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The South Carolina Primary & Nevada Caucuses |Feb 20, 23, 27| Continuing The Calm

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Touchdown said:
and I'd like to know where all these millenials were when we were in the thick of it during the mid-terms during Obama's early tenure. It blows my mind that Bernie Sanders woke them up over somebody like Obama. Or are all these Bernie supporters really just first time voters?
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Obama excited more of them during 2008. They were just not as excited in 2010. I think justifiably
 
Rez said:
I don't know much about how primaries have historically worked, so: does Bush actually have any reasonable chance of bouncing back from a >=4th place position here?
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No. He literally has less than 1% chance of winning this point. In fact, no Republican has won both New Hampshire and South Carolina and not got the nomination. Anyone but Trump winning would be historical.
 
SSAcbbn.jpg
 
plop said:
I agree on all of this, Roland. The continuation of surveillance is troubling, but to fault Obama for the rest if that is silly.

But again, it's indicative of so many Sanders supporters who see that everything isn't changing today and believe it's because our politicians aren't liberal enough, or they're liars, or they're just as bad as the GOP.

The truth is that these demonized Democrats are often forced to either compromise in order to pass something of greater importance to them or blocked completely. Because that's how our system of government was designed.

Progress takes time, which was my original point. We are inching left, ksharp. I get that it's frustrating that we can't be a progressive utopia today, but if we keep fighting, we can get there. Even if part of that fight is blocking the GOP from fucking us through the Supreme Court by voting for a Democrat who you hate. She may not be left enough for you, but she's a damn far sight better than what the GOP has on tap.
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Hillary's foreign policy stance would frankly give me pause to consider voting for Trump. I probably wouldn't, but Supreme Court justices aren't going to help us when she gets us into another damn war.

(another other GOP candidate would be worse though... well, I guess I don't know how Kasich feels about bombing things)
 
Those of us who predicted the rise of Trump back in the Fall were citing this kind of number:
Cbs0FOGWEAAq8Jr.png


That sentiment didn't fade before voting began. If anything, it seems to be as strong as ever.
 
Tubie said:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2016/feb/20/nevada-south-carolina-live-results-primary-caucuses?CMP=twt_gu

Pixel Trump gives me life.
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aspiegamer said:
The actual, actual, entirely real results page at The Guardian. It's like they hired Nintendo to do this. I approve. The Pixel Rubio even did the 3x repeat meme before rolling off the screen.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...lina-live-results-primary-caucuses?CMP=twt_gu
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Hahaha, thank you so much for this.
 
Inuhanyou said:
I want to ask you fairly, and this is a fair question so know i'm not trying to be condescending.

Why do you think Bernie Sanders is running? To support the Democrats, or to support the ideas he thinks best represents the people?

The GOP are already winning the messaging war. The Democrats have moved so far in their direction, the Dems themselves have no real message of their own besides 'yeah well on a few social issues...i guess we're not insane'.

They have already ceded the economic progressive angle, and have actively fought to dispel any possibility of there being a problem in that area to begin with, along with any notion of a crisis of corruption in the political system destroying democracy(one of the previous key economic messages they held against the GOP when Citizen's United was passed).

This needs to be addressed and its a simple fact; The Democratic party winning in 2016 if it is not Bernie Sanders, is not only never going to change that, but they are never going to acknowledge that again, because that influence is too great.

And so then the question for the citizen and those who still want to continue the fight only becomes, where does the challenge come from? Does it come from inside the party again, or does it come from beyond the party?

Bernie Sanders already has a groundswell of support, and although he may not have enough time to win the Democratic nomination, his support across the country is undoubtedly growing at a brisk pace, and he can give it the opportunity to grow himself if he runs independently.

His support structure and organizational structure will still exist, so he would need to make a decision quickly, but i think it would be the right one to consider.
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He can't even beat Hillary head to head, throw in the GOP and all he does is split the Democratic vote allowing the GOP easy access to winning the election.
 
Spica said:
I'd call them the "capitalist class" or simply bourgeois, but I figured my sympathy for Marxist analysis would put people off even more.
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Bringing up class analysis is going to send of alarm bells either way.

We gotta trade some of our dankest socialist memes.
 
aeolist said:
she'll need to do more than that though. it'd be best if he actively campaigns for her and if she has a position in her administration for him or someone like him. not sure if sanders would want that but she needs to embrace progressivism at least to some extent.

might be interesting to see a general election candidate have to tack away from the center.
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Honestly, if Elizabeth Warren wanted to be VP (or a high ranking cabinet official), I get the impression Hillary would pick her. But the truth is Warren doesn't want to be VP. She wants to either stay in Congress for her career and become the most important person there, or make her own presidential run sometime in the future.
 
I think it's still early to call a Trump win. It really depends on what happens with Kasich, Bush, and Carson dropping out if they do. I could see Trump plateauing around where he is now, maybe manage to get another 5-8%, but once this is a three or two way race I can see Rubio, MAYBE even Cruz beating Trump, but the later is unlikely.
 
Elfforkusu said:
Hillary's foreign policy stance would frankly give me pause to consider voting for Trump. I probably wouldn't, but Supreme Court justices aren't going to help us when she gets us into another damn war.

(another other GOP candidate would be worse though... well, I guess I don't know how Kasich feels about bombing things)
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Hillary has basically been advocating for a continuation of Obama's foreign policy. All of the Republicans, including Trump, have been much more hawkish.
 
Team Alucard said:
I still cannot believe that Donald Trump is going to be a major candidate for president. Unreal.
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How surprised are you going to be when he wins the general election?

Giant Panda said:
Hillary has basically been advocating for a continuation of Obama's foreign policy. All of the Republicans, including Trump, have been much more hawkish.
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It's not like Obama's foreign policy has been great. We're still illegally droning innocent people.
 
Ether_Snake said:
I think it's still early to call a Trump win. It really depends on what happens with Kasich, Bush, and Carson dropping out if they do. I could see Trump plateauing around where he is now, maybe manage to get another 5-8%, but once this is a three or two way race I can see Rubio, MAYBE even Cruz beating Trump, but the later is unlikely.
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Cruz/Rubio are killing each other's chances.
Hillary has basically been advocating for a continuation of Obama's foreign policy. All of the Republicans, including Trump, have been much more hawkish.
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Opening relations with Cuba. Deal with Iran. So Hawkish.
 
Zulithe said:
I don't have a lot of friends. And am bad at making them. Also, I rarely see them as we live on opposite sides of the country now. Just occasionally he messages me on Steam or whatever.

Trying not to fully shut people out for being wrong sometimes. Have had limited success in influencing them.

Ehh. Sorry if that's not good enough for you!
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I would never talk to anyone I knew from High School if I did what he suggests. Or my old Counter-Strike team that differs very heavily from my political opinions. The minute you stop listening to people who don't believe the same thing you do is the moment you've both lost.
 
Ether_Snake said:
I think it's still early to call a Trump win. It really depends on what happens with Kasich, Bush, and Carson dropping out if they do. I could see Trump plateauing around where he is now, maybe manage to get another 5-8%, but once this is a three or two way race I can see Rubio, MAYBE even Cruz beating Trump, but the later is unlikely.
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They've done these calculations before though. When candidates start dropping out, Trump still comes out ahead. Anything can change moving forward though.
 
Welp, I'm gonna end up voting for Hillary aren't I.

My head knew it was the likely (and quite possibly preferable in a long term game) destination, but hope sprang eternal from the wellspring of my heart.
 
Inuhanyou said:
I want to ask you fairly, and this is a fair question so know i'm not trying to be condescending.

Why do you think Bernie Sanders is running? To support the Democrats, or to support the ideas he thinks best represents the people?

The GOP are already winning the messaging war. The Democrats have moved so far in their direction, the Dems themselves have no real message of their own besides 'yeah well on a few social issues...i guess we're not insane'.

They have already ceded the economic progressive angle, and have actively fought to dispel any possibility of there being a problem in that area to begin with, along with any notion of a crisis of corruption in the political system destroying democracy(one of the previous key economic messages they held against the GOP when Citizen's United was passed).

This needs to be addressed and its a simple fact; The Democratic party winning in 2016 if it is not Bernie Sanders, is not only never going to change that, but they are never going to acknowledge that again, because that influence is too great.

And so then the question for the citizen and those who still want to continue the fight only becomes, where does the challenge come from? Does it come from inside the party again, or does it come from beyond the party?

Bernie Sanders already has a groundswell of support, and although he may not have enough time to win the Democratic nomination, his support across the country is undoubtedly growing at a brisk pace, and he can give it the opportunity to grow himself if he runs independently.

His support structure and organizational structure will still exist, so he would need to make a decision quickly, but i think it would be the right one to consider.
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His progress this far into a primary that was supposed to belong to Hillary wrapped up in a bow shows that people are sick of the status quo. There will be other mainstream politicians rising to carry his message in the future. He's made income inequality and Wall Street fuckery a part of the national dialogue.
 
neurosisxeno said:
Obama has tried his hardest NOT to intervene, and has been getting beaten over the head by Republican for it. If we had listened to the GOP we'd still be completely in Iraq, as well as have boots on the ground in Libya and Syria--possibly even Iran, Crimea, and Yeman for all we know. So increased Drone Strikes is hardly a bad thing compared to the alternative. It's also worth nothing Obama has scaled back in Afghanistan and Iraq a great deal compared to where we were in 2008, rather than what McCain and Romney wanted which was "another surge!". The mass surveillance programs were kept in place under Obama, but not really expanded.

How can we blame Guantanamo on Democrats? Obama has wanted it closed since he was a candidate in 2007--maybe even earlier. It's the GOP that keeps blocking it insisting it is necessary for national security or some other nonsense. If Democrats had their way it would have been shut down and the inmates would have faced trial on US soil.
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"Well, at least he tried"

What a legacy!

Tell that to all the innocent people whose houses we drop bombs on because we think their cell phone maybe might fit the profile of a terrorist. (maybe)

Syria is a clusterfuck, and not giving Obama's administration credit for how bad that situation is (not all the blame, there's plenty to go around) is laughable.

Mass surveillance has absolutely been expanded. Are you kidding? Under whose watch did this little thing get built? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center
 
Geo said:
Yes, and his chances of victory are a lot higher than many people want to believe. There seems to be this general "GO TRUMP HAHAHA" sentiment among many people on the Democratic side, because they think he will get obliterated in the general. It's very strange.
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You need the minority vote to be president.

Trump cannot get the minority vote.

Trump will not be president.
 
I still think he has no chance in hell winning the GE.

But if he does, can you imagine in 4 years, the people running against him? Movie stars? Book Authors??

Hell, Steve Harvey said he would run next if Trump were to win.
 
Geo said:
I wonder how quickly people will realize that Trump actually has a chance to win the whole thing, once a certain demographic on the Democratic side fails to show up to the polls.

Hmm...
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But the same could be said of demographics not showing up for the Republicans at the polls, which is why Trump's nomination is so odious to them - there are a lot of GOP demographics like "moderates", some evangelicals, etc. who would refuse to vote for Trump. The fear is that they'll either decide Hillary, who's been cast as a moderate this race, will be a more "responsible" vote to them than for Trump (Sanders might be a harder sell), or they'll simply just stay at home and refuse to vote... which will affect downticket races.

And there are certainly some Sanders supporters out there who are so far gone they've proclaimed they'll refuse to vote for Hillary, but also a number who've said that, given what's at stake, they'll vote for her even if they're not wild about it (especially given what's at stake with the GOP nominees and with the Supreme Court). So I wouldn't assume "youth" are some monolithic voting block.
 
RustyNails said:
Really are. Their headlines now read like drudge report.
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They became nonexistent to me when they started slagging off on Trump in every single article that mentions them. How anyone can go to them for "news" of any sort anymore is a joke to me. I'd say the same thing no matter who they did that to, it's ridiculous if it's Trump, Clinton, Cruz, Sanders, or anyone else.
 
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