googleplex
Member
It's not a problem when people don't vote for Bernie because the don't believe his pie in the sky promises with no real plan to follow through on any of the things he's putting forth.
That the system working the way it should.
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The South Carolina Primary & Nevada Caucuses |Feb 20, 23, 27| Continuing The Calm
- Thread starter NeoXChaos
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It's not a problem when people don't vote for Bernie because the don't believe his pie in the sky promises with no real plan to follow through on any of the things he's putting forth.
That the system working the way it should.
Yep. This twice Obama voter is now supporting Trump. Come at me gaf. COME AT ME!
Speaking in generals is dumb, so let's walk that back a bit.
But given how a lot of Hillary supporters have acted in this thread alone, it's not that far of an exaggeration.
And what plan has Hillary come up with this month that's somehow pragmatic and able to pass through congress?
gutter_trash
Banned
so the stupid lame stream media is already pushing the Rubio front runner narrative bullshit after Jeb quit
eeeessh
Neocons now have the media pushing their neocon warmonger Rubio
eeeessh
Neocons now have the media pushing their neocon warmonger Rubio
Never thought Id be sad seeing Jeb go, grew to like him as Trumps awkward punching bag..
Now who will be Trumps punching bag
Rubio.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Never thought Id be sad seeing Jeb go, grew to like him as Trumps awkward punching bag..
Now who will be Trumps punching bag
Hopefully Rubio. I would enjoy seeing that.
Basileus777
Member
0 delegates, tied for 2nd place. Time for a victory lap!
Is it perhaps that it's tempting to conflate claims that she is inevitable and has the nomination locked up with ideas that these same people believe that anyone who feels otherwise is somehow inferior?
Because I don't really see many posts that suggest that. At absolute worst, I would perhaps characterize the attitude some Hillary diehards have toward Bernie supporters as... a feeling that the other party might be a bit naive. But not that they're ideologically un-Democratic or that they're inferior for their opinion. Just that it's more about sending a message then actually getting anything done.
Never thought Id be sad seeing Jeb go, grew to like him as Trumps awkward punching bag..
Now who will be Trumps punching bag
Rubio or Cruz and maybe even both.
Anyway, I wouldn't worry about rubio getting the nomination yet for the republicans.That will be determine months from now It is not guaranteed. He may also stumble like he did in NH in future primaries and caucuses.
Wait until he loses in Nevada. Their facade is crashing hard.
Would you be more comfortable with an outsider airline pilot who never went to flight school?
Except for Hannity lol.. I was astounded tonight watching his program as he and Gingrich were insulting the pundits and establishment alike for making a big deal about Rubio. He even defend ed Trump on Obamacare..
gutter_trash
Banned
exactly! and the media is pushing this guy to the Top with zero results
fuck Rubio and his desire to keep the Embargo on Cuba ongoing.
The people of Cuba need a relief. Rubio is their worst nightmare
balladofwindfishes
Member
It's going to come crashing down eventually. They can't keep going with this narrative when the results keep saying otherwise.
It must be frustrating for them that they haven't been able to sway this election much at all.
The GOP peddles lies with their anti-big government approach. They say that big government is bad and the individual needs to make their own destiny, but then they finish their sentence and move on to how the government needs to expand and hurt individual rights. How can you say the government needs to shrink down to "as little as possible" and then talk about expanding the army, our prison systems, giving police weapons for war, etc? The GOP seems to pick and choose what apparatuses of the government it wants to inflate, and then tries to spit shine what we currently have. Ironic how they try talking about how the government needs to keep out of our lives when they show open support for the branches of government and policies that repress people the most.
The more right-wing these people get the worse it has become. Talking about religious liberty for the 83% that have been "oppressed" while telling the 3.8% that they shouldn't get married. Focusing on the "struggles" that Christians go through every day for their faith while ignoring the real struggles that ethnic minorities go through. I hear Ted Cruz and others making up stories about how hard his class of rich white Christians have it in America, and he pretends like the GOP is for the individuals. When you focus on the individual you don't focus on the majority that you are apart of, you focus on each person.
Strangely enough Hannity seems the one of the few ones from Fox buying into Trump. O'Reilly is kind of there as well. Everyone else is an establishment Roboto tool.
I really hope Rubio is next for Trump as a punching bag, he should definitely call Christie on how to push his "buttons".
Considering we have to deal with a Republican congress, I don't see Hillary getting anything done. If anything I see more congressional hearings over whatever bullshit thing they can hook her on further wasting our tax money.
With Sanders winning it could mean people actually showing up to midterm elections and possibly more liberal options. With Hillary it's going to be the status quo.
I'm a Bernie supporter, and I for one wouldn't expect him to be able to enact those goals as President. It would have been enough that I knew he was fighting for them, though. I've never interpreted his message as guaranteeing those things either.
As for aspirational goals, the Republicans have been running on an (unpopular) aspirational platform since 1980 designed to appeal to a minority of Americans. Nevertheless, they've generally succeeded because those aspirations tend to mobilize their base.
That's somewhat true, but it's also somewhat of an oversimplification. In the past, the Republican and Democratic parties were fairly ideologically diverse coalitions of interests from different regions of the country. That diversity enabled the parties to compromise. Starting in 1994 with the retirement of a lot of the southern democrats in congress and their replacement with Republicans, the parties began to become much more ideologically polarized. They now more resemble ideologically organized parties in parliamentary democracies than political parties as they traditionally existed in America. That is a problem because, as you suggest, our political system wasn't set up for political parities to behave this way.
What you state is all true, but to be fair, the technocratic answer would be to mitigate the negative effects of free trade on the distribution of incomes in the U.S. with re-distributive policies exactly like those Sanders supports. Unfortunately, the same moneyed interests that disproportionately benefit from free trade agreements fight the enactment of those programs. I don't support protectionism, but the answer of Democrats to this problem can't be to tell voters to "suck it up". That's one of the reasons why the Democrats are losing ground in the Midwest.
Prodigal Son
Member
Trump is Teflon.
Roland_Gunner
Member
Woodrow Wilson was only in office for a year as the governor of New Jersey before running for President. That's the closest I can think of.
He's going to crumble like Bush eventually even if it's not before the general election part of the race.I wouldn't worry about what the media says about him now.
That is true but the SC at least tries to adhere to the doctrine of stare decisis, still like you said nothing could prevent them from looking the issue over again.
Lol...Bernie is a guaranteed loser against Rubio.
Hillary has a solid change against him despite Rubio being the best contender against her.
Everyone else, including Bush (drop out), Trump, Cruz, Kasich etc are dead vs. Hillary.
For Bernie to be the better candidate (from a liberal pov) - either Trump or Cruz has to be the GOP candidate GUARANTEED. Heavy emphasis on guaranteed. Rubio will demolish Bernie in a general. You better believe the GOP establishment will bring hell on hearth before Trump or Cruz wins.
Really weird to see from Hannity, i figured he'd be riding Cruz all day.
Maybe it doesn't make people idiots, but abstaining from voting because your chosen guy gets beat fair and square definitely sends the message that you never cared about Bernie's message in the first place. Bernie's message never has, and never will be, "Lets just fuck shit up if we don't get precisely our way." And while I've never been a Bernie supporter, I can acknowledge that getting people out there to vote and participate in the process REGARDLESS, has been at the forefront of his message.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Yes.
Around last year I said it was Hillary's. But given the crazy popularity of Trump and the fact that a lot of the youth vote supports Sanders it's very likely that Trump beats Hillary if the youth vote becomes disenfranchised and abstains or worse votes for Trump.
If Sanders won, I just don't see minorities voting for a Republican. Rubio maybe but his immigration policies has kinda stung on fellow Latinos.
The problem is that I shouldn't have to be forced to vote for someone I don't want to vote for, just because the opponent is worse than they are. This is about supporting a platform, and when none of those options are viable to you, then what do you do? Isn't it a bit disingenuous to support something you really don't because their opposition's even worse?
Ideally I'd want Elizabeth Warren.
I want candidates that understand that government occasionally has to step in to help the poor, provide healthcare to all, enhance education opportunities for all, accept proven science as fact, and protect the environment.
I want candidates that understand that modern corporations exploit their workers and financial institutions practice in fraud. I'm not asking for a Communist nation, but a nation that has the balls to tell someone like Wal-Mart that they can't keep paying people below the standard of living.
nitekrawlwer
Member
No president is ever gonna assure that. It's something only we can do for ourselves. By remaining a part of the political process even when it's not popular aka during presidential elections. There is no silver bullet candidate for that kinda change.
The turnout for Obama in 2008 was much higher than it is for Sanders this year, and most of those voters never came back for the midterms in 2010. What would be so different about 2018?
Officerrob
Banned
A guy who has yet to win a state, and has no clear win coming-up
Which is why Bernie has been turning in unbelievable showing during the Democratic primaries.
Come on man, it is a fairy tale scenario.
EatinOlives
Member
I dunno, why don't you listen to Bernie's thoughts on this very matter? Because he's one of the people who very solidly proclaims "whoever the Democratic candidate ends up being, VOTE for that person. The stakes are too high" in nearly every debate.
Iunderstoodthatreference.gif
He's just saying that because he's the latest in a long line of ESTABLISHMENT politicians who...
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I think a part of Trump was unhappy tonight. Jeb has been his foil for 8 months and he's been liking it. Seeing him go must have been bitter sweet. I know it was for me.
Crimson_Fate
Member
Actually Democrat turnout is down 30% from 2008
Democratic turnout in the Iowa Caucuses
2008 239,000
2016 171,000
Republican turnout in the Iowa Caucuses
2008 119,000
2012 122,000
2016 182,000
I get what you're all saying. And I agree that it's easy to be jaded. But I'd rather put my hopes in something evolving rather than support someone who has shifted their ideals whenever it was slightly more politically beneficial to them.
We don't have to agree with everything Bernie says either.
Forcing us to vote for someone we fundamentally disagree with because the stakes are too high is very difficult to do, as we've been constantly told to suck it up.
Or, alternatively, politics is about settling for legislation in which one must by nature by willing to sacrifice ideological purity for the sake of pushing the ball forward a little instead of none at all.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
I apologize. I really do. This is just so extremely important. I know you know that. But it's literally something that can affect the lives of millions. So I get amped up. I really am sorry if I come across as a self-important or haughty asshole.
I have to get to sleep anyway, but I wanted to leave with one final plea to anyone, whether Hillary or Bernie supporter, who thinks about skipping the election or voting third party or whatever if their chosen candidate doesn't win the primary.
Right now, both houses of Congress are Republican. We may get a Republican president. That president would then nominate whatever extremely conservative Supreme Court justices he wishes, which the Republican Congress will confirm right away. Every branch of government will be Republican, and the dismantling of what we've fought so hard to build will begin in earnest, with nothing to slow it down.
Every non-rich man, woman, and child in the country would be affected. Hell, children who won't be born for another decade or two will feel the effects of a hard right judiciary. Please don't let that happen. Do your part. Yes, it sucks to see your perfect candidate lose. But do you really want to be fucked by the devil if you can't kiss Jesus? There's no middle ground?
Finally, a personal appeal:
My older brother suffers from a few emotional and developmental disorders. He's got Aspberger Syndrome, he's OCD, and has severe Social Anxiety Disorder. He doesn't work, can't leave the house (except to see his doctor, and only because that's become part of his routine). He relies on government assistance for his antidepressants and most everything else, which he's openly told me are the only things preventing him from suicide. He feels he's a burden on society and doesn't think he has anything worth living for because he adds nothing to anyone's life and stares at the same walls day in and day out.
The thing is, he's a good person. He's loving and caring and has an amazing heart. And he does have a purpose. He loves and is loved by his family. He didn't ask to be born as he is, but he gets by. And he means the world to me. Besides just by being my brother, he was my rock growing up. We had an abusive father (I'm talking closed fist punches and being choked unconscious before I turned 12). We weren't allowed to have friends growing up, and were required to be indoors with the curtains drawn at all times (which I believe led to my brother's Social Anxiety because I also have that, but to a much lesser degree). We were each other's friends. We were our only emotional support. We had each other. Now that we're adults, I don't want to lose him. I can't. He's my best friend.
Why am I brining this up? He's one of the "takers" the Republicans are always talking about. He can't work, so he collects government benefits (he's hardly living large. He's 38 and lives with my mom in the single-wide trailer we grew up in). But these benefits (mostly the drugs and access to a doctor) keep him fighting. And he's always somewhat hopeful (despite the odds) that some miracle drug will come along and clear away the fog and make him okay.
If Republicans take the presidency and hold every other branch of government, I'm scared they'll take away what little he has. I know how alarmist it sounds to say "vote for _______ or they'll kill my brother," but I literally feel as if his life may depend on the outcome of this election. Particularly if we get someone like Cruz, who wants to demolish damn near every social safety net in existence.
I'm not asking you to care about my brother. That's my job. But please realize that there are millions of others out there like him who are stuck in situations they didn't ask for and didn't create, and for whom a Republican win in November may literally mean the end of everything.
Not good news for the general.
You guys remember when Obama went on WTF described being president as steering big giant ship?
I think about that a lot when people completely shit on Hilary.
I'm coting for Sanders the in the primary, but when Clinton gets nominated I'll suck it up and vote for her.
I don't want any of those other goons steering the ship and taking our future of course.
I think about that a lot when people completely shit on Hilary.
I'm coting for Sanders the in the primary, but when Clinton gets nominated I'll suck it up and vote for her.
I don't want any of those other goons steering the ship and taking our future of course.
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