This is exactly what will happen if people don't vote or vote Trump and he actually wins. It's happened before, and it'll happen again. People just don't learn.
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Does anybody really believe Trump has a chance of winning?
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This is exactly what will happen if people don't vote or vote Trump and he actually wins. It's happened before, and it'll happen again. People just don't learn.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
So how impenetrable does GAF think that electoral wall actually is? In my head space, I can only see the democratic party gaining momentum from here on out due to how many people are moving to huge cities and the general liberal lean that comes with it, but I'm totally underthinking it.
Not to rag on you, but the fact that they were all 20-somethings is exhibit A as to why their impact was limited, choosing to vote or no.
Sanders won over 60% of the under-45 vote in Nevada, and that still wasn't enough to gain even a simple majority. Not under-25, not under-35, under 45.
Maybe it's because older people have more free time or are retired and have an easier time voting, but youth voting participation rates are abysmal. So when you say there's a sizable number of people, "especially youth" who choose not to vote... well, yeah, pretty much everyone has already noticed that, and it's pretty much reason numero uno why Sanders isn't winning more primaries.
Disillusioned youth choosing not to vote in the upcoming election wouldn't be some monumental shift in voting patterns and a grand political statement against the Democratic nominee - it would just be a repeat and reinforcement of the same thing that's happened every election, which is why it's unlikely to have much of an effect on Clinton's election chances vs. Trump: because she has older people who show up for her, in both primaries and in the general, while the "disillusioned" youth are sitting at home (and other youth are stuck at work).
No really. Actual numbers that I've seen show that 80% of Bernie supporters will support Hillary. I guess "a lot" is just a vague enough of a word that if Hillary loses, it's because of Bernie supporters and not based on the strength of her candidacy.
I want to see the numbers where they actually vote for Trump. Because saying "people on the internet say it sometimes" is completely useless as a measure of just about anything.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
FinalStageBoss
Banned
Lol@ Bernie supporters voting for Trump out of spite. C'mon.
Some of yall are delusional, Trump doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell at winning.
Some of yall are delusional, Trump doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell at winning.
No one said it was a majority. But it exists. And frankly, Trump has so many crazies riled up that I don't feel comfortable with the idiot minority of Bernie supporters voting for Trump just to spite Hillary. Bernie supporters need to get their people in line, because they are fucking it up for everyone else.
Inspector Jones
Member
I'm in this camp as well.
For every one Bernie supporter who says something like that there's ten people who parrot the same sort of shit you just did. You guys are silly sometimes.
I wouldn't say the odds are good. I just don't think a democrat winning this year is a foregone conclusion anymore. That would mean 12 straight years of a democrat in the White House (haven't had d's in the house for that long since Roosevelt -> Truman, have we?). Republican primaries are breaking turnout records. Democrats are running two candidates with legitimate weaknesses (decades of being a Republican hate-magnet, perceived ethics issues, fringe-ish politics, old). I'm just really starting to doubt that we're in as good of a position as I thought we were a few months ago.
You might as well just vote for Trump then.
Not voting is the dumbest shit ever.
Again and again, people say this and dismiss the guy. At this point, I'd say he has a ~30% shot at getting in the white house.
As a lot of others have said in here, I think dems/minorities/moderates would turn out in record numbers to try and stop that from happening, but it still might not be enough. I think we should start treating him as a serious threat rather than a joke candidate.
HUELEN10
Member
It's a lot less dumb than voting for something on a whim, which i what a lot of people will do on Election Day on both sides.
I personally know a lot of republicans that are in this position as well. If it's between Trump and Hillary; they just won't vote for either of them. That's fine too, tbh. I don't agree with it, but blaming the voter is never a good idea. Why is it they responsibility to force themselves to vote for someone they don't like? It seems like it would be Hillary's responsibility to make people want to vote for her.
This isn't going to happen. If anything, the gop is the one that is bringing people to turn out in record numbers.
This isn't going to happen. If anything, the gop is the one that is bringing people to turn out in record numbers.
Trump will leave this country a lot worse off than Hillary, there's really no debating that. Especially if you're a Bernie supporter.
This is what I'm talking about, by the way. Complete lunacy.
Nah, fuck that. If people put an ounce of fucking effort into democracy and voted instead of being apathetic we'd be in a much better place than we are now.
Congress is fucking useless and state governments are going full fucking stupid because people don't vote in anything other than presidential elections.
SolidSnakex
Member
I couldn't say as I haven't really followed Hillary supporters all that much so I have no idea of how pissed they are aside from the Bernie-bro stuff. Obviously it's impossible to say how many supporters of Bernie will sit out. It may be a lot or it may be a tiny amount that won't really matter in the end. All i'm saying is that there are definitely people that are done if Bernie is done. And I don't get the impression that they'll go anywhere near Trump.
Anyway, I don't think Democrats should be so quick to dismiss the possibility of Trump winning. If he gets the nomination then he's literally one step away from the presidency. That's not something to be taken lightly at all. Even if you do think that it's a far shot, it's still a shot. People have been dismissing him since he started running and he hasn't slowed down.
LizardKing
Member
Crap I posted this in the other thread not realizing it was dead....
A message to the rest of the world:
I know you may think America is crazy (and we are) but you should know that Trump voters are currently a very small portion of the population. About 30% of the country identifies as Republican (eligible to vote in most Republican primaries/caucuses), less than half of those actually do (30-45%), so call it 50% to be generous, and that makes 15% of the population voting. If we take all four states so far and say about 40% of those voted for Trump (again generous) that means about 6% of the US population is voting for Trump at this point when you extrapolate that to the primary/caucus season being finished and all states voted.
Now we will see how many votes he gets in the general election, but we haven't all gone off our rocker.
A message to the rest of the world:
I know you may think America is crazy (and we are) but you should know that Trump voters are currently a very small portion of the population. About 30% of the country identifies as Republican (eligible to vote in most Republican primaries/caucuses), less than half of those actually do (30-45%), so call it 50% to be generous, and that makes 15% of the population voting. If we take all four states so far and say about 40% of those voted for Trump (again generous) that means about 6% of the US population is voting for Trump at this point when you extrapolate that to the primary/caucus season being finished and all states voted.
Now we will see how many votes he gets in the general election, but we haven't all gone off our rocker.
I guess I just don't understand the narrative of "because trump is the GOP nominee America is so screwed"
As a democrat, I'm stoked that Trump is winning, it goes against what Fox News wants, which is always good, and I do not see any path for trump to beat Hillary
I've seen a lot of liberal people on here and twitter be so distraught and I'm just super confused
Rubio being the nominee would be way worse for the liberal movement in America
As a democrat, I'm stoked that Trump is winning, it goes against what Fox News wants, which is always good, and I do not see any path for trump to beat Hillary
I've seen a lot of liberal people on here and twitter be so distraught and I'm just super confused
Rubio being the nominee would be way worse for the liberal movement in America
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Seriously, You all that are saying you are not going to vote if it is Clinton v Trump will have zero position to bitch about anything if trump were elected.
Like mods should give you guys a special badge or some shit so everybody knows that any grievances you have with policies or stacked conservative SCOTUS for the next 30 years can then be used to mock you.
Like mods should give you guys a special badge or some shit so everybody knows that any grievances you have with policies or stacked conservative SCOTUS for the next 30 years can then be used to mock you.
JinjoUnchained
Member
This all reminds me a lot of Schwarzenegger in CA gubernatorial race. Laughable celebrity caricature wins going away over a flawed field based upon name recognition. And like Arnie, I wouldn't be surprised if Trump goes centrist if elected and all of this crazy talk was only pandering.
At least I hope so! I don't want any of these awful Democrat/Republican candidates get elected, but I guess at least Trump's "I know a guy who knows a guy" foreign policy schtick is better then neocon warmongers like Hillary/Cruz/Rubio.
At least I hope so! I don't want any of these awful Democrat/Republican candidates get elected, but I guess at least Trump's "I know a guy who knows a guy" foreign policy schtick is better then neocon warmongers like Hillary/Cruz/Rubio.
I don't think they'll vote for Trump, I think a large chunk of them will stay home. Because a lot of them think Hillary is part of the problem too.
I'm a sanders supporter, but just going off of what I've seen, there has to be a decent amount of Bernie supporters who will stay home if he doesn't get the nom. Just look at the outcry over the super delegates.
Why do you say that?
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Well I'll be voting Hillary if Bernie doesn't get the nom. So put me on a tally somewhere lol.
Let's dispel with this fiction that Bernie supporters won't vote for Hillary in the general, if anything Bernies attracting many whom weren't interested to begin with, and as long as she keeps up with the ideas that are resonating with his audience she'll be in good hands.
Let's dispel with this fiction that Bernie supporters won't vote for Hillary in the general, if anything Bernies attracting many whom weren't interested to begin with, and as long as she keeps up with the ideas that are resonating with his audience she'll be in good hands.
ShironRedshift
Member
Why's that? Will you at least vote for Congress?
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
I wonder which states the GOP needs to take to win an election in general. And how much chance they have in winning those states.
The problem is that they're all crazy. There's nothing particularly out there about Trump, both Cruz and Rubio are in favor of the border wall or fence, regressive taxes, Cruz supposedly wants to get rid of the IRS and impose a VAT tax. And more than 2/3 of republicans want to stop Muslim immigration. I guess picking on Trump is fun but they're all nuts.
The problem with Rubio, for the republicans, is that he's actually a much worse candidate than Trump. He's an awful politician.
excelsiorlef
Member
Probably because the GOP is breaking turnout records while Democrats aren't. Perhaps because, as presidential candidates are wont to do, Trump may start playing towards the middle once it looks like he's got the nomination wrapped up.
No. To think it will even be close is incredibly cynical and shows a lack of understanding about this country's demographics.
Do you guys really expect moderate independents to side with him? Do you honestly think he'll have enough of the white vote to make up for the minorities he's alienated? Give me a break. Unless Bernie supporters are still salty in November and stay home, Trumpler won't be anywhere near the White House.
Just because a bunch of shitty old white people like him doesn't mean he's suddenly going to start gaining supporters from groups he's insulted.
Do you guys really expect moderate independents to side with him? Do you honestly think he'll have enough of the white vote to make up for the minorities he's alienated? Give me a break. Unless Bernie supporters are still salty in November and stay home, Trumpler won't be anywhere near the White House.
Just because a bunch of shitty old white people like him doesn't mean he's suddenly going to start gaining supporters from groups he's insulted.
I'm sorry, how?! He talks and acts like a child. He knows how to stir people up and attract attention, but I do not see leadership values.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
HUELEN10
Member
That exact remark is how many people, independent, republican, and even some democrats (like myself) view a certain other candidate of another major party.
Different people can see different things; doesn't make what they see any less valid than what you might see.
I feel like this a real possibility.
Either way, I don't want to leave anything to chance. Need to stomp this shit out right now.
excelsiorlef
Member
And you amd I both buried the lede. That post is implying Trump is more of a leader than Obama.... lmao
He can barely even lead his own company, swear to god I've been hearing about the financial issues of that company my whole life.
Flying Toaster
Member
America has had some bad examples of modern leadership... But seriously he is a school bully.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
He can't even keep his hair in line
excelsiorlef
Member
You think Clinton comes off as a child?!
Inspector Jones
Member
This. The Democrats should have ran more candidates.
As a Bernie supporter, I resent this post.
When it comes to Trump, yeah, it kinda does.
Unless we have widely different definitions of what we want in a leader. I certainly don't want a racist and delusional person leading me and I definitely don't want him to become one of the most powerful human beings on the planet.
HUELEN10
Member
Personally? Yes, yes I do.
If you think Hillary is as bad as Trump, you're part of the problem. I'm sorry.
Flying Toaster
Member
I wouldn't say child... But it's clear she is not happy having to deal with Sanders.
Lol that red head in the background.Women love Trump
I am surprised you are giving Huelen so much of your time. If he wants to cut off his nose to spite his face so be it.
I think the bigger question is where does the GOP go from here if/when Trump loses? The party apparatus itself knows that they cannot win without Hispanics at the very least going forward, and they've been trying - albeit incredibly badly and hamstrung by the Tea Party element - to get their foot in the door, but the white conservative base has gone completely insane and is not going to accept anything other than Trumpish politics from now on. Does the party collapse or simply become a regional party that clings on to the House for dear life until the boomers fade away in a few decades and the more libertarian-oriented younger Republicans take over the levers of power? Or has Trump done so much damage that even the younger Republicans are infatuated with alt-right/fascist/nationalist concepts now? The party machinery itself has an easy way of dismissing a 2016 loss as "Trump wasn't a real Republican anyway" but that's not going to make the base want to suddenly return to the fold. The voters will just find some way to pin the loss on McConnell and Ryan somehow - insufficiently supporting Trump or something. They will want blood until they are satiated or completely obliterated.
They're still very powerful locally and can win state elections but unless they somehow break the power of the base they can't win a general any more bar some sort of miracle.
They're still very powerful locally and can win state elections but unless they somehow break the power of the base they can't win a general any more bar some sort of miracle.
Because we're not seeing record turnout right now for Hillary. Bernie is bringing in a lot of new voters and even then, we're seeing lower numbers than in 2008.
I think a lot of people are apathetic to a Hillary presidency. She'll get the base support, but record numbers? I don't see it.
Will this become one of those things where people ask you to elaborate but then you bounce the fuck out and never come back? I call that pulling a HEULEN.
excelsiorlef
Member
Someone who stays home just because their ideal candidate didn't get the nomination is truly dumber than any republican. Teabaggers and other far-right scum are as smart as a bag of rocks, but at least they vote. I'm optimistic that Bernie's supporters are as smart as they think they are.
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