Let's wait for them to actually lose before we speculate.
I used to think the same thing until I started reading some of the bullshit Bernie supporters put out on the internet.
Does anybody really believe Trump has a chance of winning?
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Let's wait for them to actually lose before we speculate.
I used to think the same thing until I started reading some of the bullshit Bernie supporters put out on the internet.
Abinash117
Member
So murder- suicide ?
People saying Trump has a chance of winning the general aren't paying attention. Well he might have a chance as much as Ben Carson being partially coherent during a debate.
Trump is dislike by a overwhelming majority of the electorate, the reason he is succeeding now is because a large portion of the GOP primary is anti-establishment and hate their own party, especially since the GOP is really fractured and currently the GOP is not rallying behind a person that is not Trump. It is the classical divide and conquer strategy. To addition is that Donald Trump has the party by the BALLS, if he thinks they are being unfair towards him he will attack and have a chance of going independent. They might anger the voters how back Trump and it might cost them a ton of money which could be used against them. If they go after him Donald will press the nuclear button and everything goes to complete shit. They simply don't want to risk it and so they put the kids gloves on him. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/donald-trump-megadonors-219690
This gives Trump basically free reign to do what he wants and with addition the primary electorate basically being geared towards Trump, it allows him to get huge amount of support. The Democrats do not have to hold back whatsoever and they so much material to use against him. To his stances on immigration, pro-police, anti-abortion, his bankruptcies, tax plan, pro-gun, his lack of specifics, defunding on PP, etc some of which harm him with important demographics and all of which can make look racist, unprofessional, and a blowhard. All they really need to do is keep nailing him on that he either defends those positions, dismisses them, or flip-flops.
So his views make him unsuitable in the general considering it is more diverse, he simply can not back down in the general because the Democrats will most likely keep bringing up his extremely racist like views. Also he is very well known any pull back will be noticed.
Hillary Clinton has very favorable demographics working for her and Trump needs to increase a percentage to make that up. Many consider Hillary to be center, but in comparison to Trump she will be liberal to moderate because based on her policies all of it are to the left of him or share the similar goals. The biggest things he can hit her on is her untrustworthy behavior, her ties to wallstreet, and the Iraq vote. The problem with the last two is that he has no specific son how to deal with that himself, he is no Bernie Sanders, and he is a Billionaire himself. Iraq vote won't be effective because Republicans either don't care much or were for it and the Democrats already overwhelming support her. The Iraq vote is basically old news now.
Attacking her for being untrustworthy and using SuperPacs will probably be a little more effective.
Demigod Mac
Member
With Hillary, not much will change (at worst), but if Trump wins, all of the issues Bernie cares about will switch gears to full-speed reverse. Doesn't Bernie repeatedly tell you the campaign is all about the issues? Is that nothing but empty rhetoric to you?
I don't think you non-voters appreciate the immense damage any of these Republican clowns would inflict upon this country if they were elected. Think Supreme Court nominations and generations of hard-won civil rights they'd strip away. Then tell us if your hatred of Hillary is worth all that.
I don't think you non-voters appreciate the immense damage any of these Republican clowns would inflict upon this country if they were elected. Think Supreme Court nominations and generations of hard-won civil rights they'd strip away. Then tell us if your hatred of Hillary is worth all that.
minor effort
Banned
Even the GOP's own 2012 postmortem acknowledged not making inroads into growing demographics like Hispanics played a significant role in their losses that year.
With candidates like Trump you have to wonder how they'll ever make inroads.
excelsiorlef
Member
Gordon Shumway
Banned
HUELEN10
Member
Yeah, I think she would have been able to keep her cool better if there were either more demmys in the primary, or no Bernie.
I think at the end of the day, it will always be a 2-party system, but those parties will change over time. Think today's democrat and republicans would agree with everything from their counterparts 40 years ago? Just look at American history, parties and people's voice will continue to evolve, it is the one constant.
I think In Time, the republican AND democratic parties will share the same fate. They will grow in to something the reflects the populace of their time and change.
Colonel Nasty
Member
It blows my mind that people would potentially doom this country socially because their side of the same coin didn't land. But then again people this dumb are voting for Trump so nothing should surprise me.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Yup to all of this..fucked..
tearsintherain
Member
Why would Mac Miller make a song named Donald Trump if he is not a leader? Its also got over a 100m views and prophesies the rise of Trump, 5 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74TFS8r_SMI
Honestly, it reeks of people getting involved in politics for the first time, people that never had skin in the game. They think taking their ball and going home is an acceptable outcome because it helps their hurt feelings, and they'd rather fuck everyone else over because misery loves company.
Maybe I am an optimist but much like Obama Clinton in 08. I refuse to think people would be that petty.
excelsiorlef
Member
It blows my mind that someone like Trump who has spewed toxic crap towards Hispanics and Muslims is received with open arms in the numerous cable channels and his bullshit is not called out. That along with Bernie supporters vowing to do everything they can to shit on minorities, immigrants, gays and Muslims just because their guy didn't get the nomination....fuck me
The amount of infighting that I've seen between democratic voters is really saddening. I, personally, am a Bernie supporter but if he loses the nom (which I'm positive he will) I have no issues supporting Hillary. Both of them seem like very capable and reasonable human beings.
HUELEN10
Member
Not helping someone doesn't equate to directly screwing them over. Can't have involvement if you don't play the game.
For the record, this is my 3rd presidential election.
I am a Clinton supporter and I feel the same if she loses. Especially with 1+ Supreme Court seats on the line.
Right. He's bringing first time voters out and also that's not enough is what I'm saying.
He's leading by large margins with young voters and first time voters.
Not helping someone when the only alternative is screwing them over, is in fact screwing them over.
There's no draws here. If Bernie loses, it's Trump or Hillary, and not voting is a tacit approval of Trump potentially winning.
Fuck.
That.
HUELEN10
Member
I disagree as I do differentiate between lack of involvement, indirect involvement, and direct involvement, but I know not everyone does; I do respect your option though, it is valid.
How do you disagree? If Bernie loses, by every reasonable stretch of the imagination you're looking at Hillary vs. Trump.
If you don't vote for Hillary in that scenario, you're saying you're okay with Trump potentially winning.
You can disagree all you want, but the fact is that someone is going to get elected whether you vote or not. If you don't care that the wrong person gets elected, you're part of the problem.
You're in a political thread arguing about politics, are over 18 years old and can legally vote. You're already involved.
HUELEN10
Member
"Right and wrong person" are in the eye of the beholder in a case like this, aren't they? If the country didn't have millions of people with millions of needs and millions of differing views, what's the point in choice and elections? And is it not possible that in the eye of the beholder, both choices might be right, or both might be wrong? people aren't light switches after all, and views don't have to be binary.
Like it or not, the man has a strong chance of winning should he make it to the general. That's not a crazy or unfounded statement.
It's honestly easier to say that American politics have rarely been civilized. We're just reaching a new height of absurdity now because our media-driven culture makes outrageous stuff get more attention whereas before it was cloaked in veneers of intellectualism.
Then again, this is the same country where politicians used to get people drunk to get their support, we had duels and would tar and feather people, Charles Sumner got caned in the middle of Congress, McCarthy went on a red-baiting witch hunt, Reagan and Bush Jr. got into the white house at all, Sarah Palin was once a VP nom, etc. etc.
That's not even touching the really bad stuff.
You're not wrong, but if you think Trump winning is equally as desirable as Hillary winning as a Bernie supporter, I wonder why you're even voting for Bernie in the first place.
Seems like blind idealism that refuses to take into account the reality of the situation.
You're treating like it is in this comment. You're saying that either candidate is either the right or wrong choice, but there is also the possibility that one candidate is better than the other. So both can be bad, but one is worse.
And also it also does't actually matter who you personally vote for. It won't make a difference in the grand scheme of things, unless you go third party.
Colonel Nasty
Member
I love Bernie and have never been a Hilary person but I wouldn't be able sleep at night if I didn't vote and Trump won. I'm not voting FOR Hilary I'm voting against minority, gender and sexuality oppression that comes from a Republican presidency.
Flying Toaster
Member
Why is it bad to vote for Trump? The Republicans don't even want him.
/s
/s
This train of thought is how shitty people get elected.
SaviourMK2
Member
There'd be argument that always shoots my opinion out of the water.
When you get down to it, I'd rather have a list in office than someone who would make our own allies turn on us
HUELEN10
Member
Wow. Though this sentiment can apply to various people and groups, I think that is a great way to explain it.
Can Trump move back to the centre? I'm not as dialed into American politics, is "flip-flopper" still something that resonates, or is it as outdated as "where's the beef?" He'd have to go more to the centre after securing the nom to get any shake in the gen, right?
Wow, so people really think the supreme court vacancy will go unfilled? That's ultra toxic. But yeah, seems like that's a possibility.
Demigod Mac
Member
If you knew in advance of an incoming disaster that you could lend a small part in preventing, would you not feel even the slightest bit obligated to? If not for yourself then for the people who would suffer deeply from such a disaster. Is the individual raindrop not responsible for the storm?
Don't vote for "Hillary". Vote for her future Supreme Court nominees.
ShironRedshift
Member
Not really. Mitt Romney tired the moving back to the center thing after he said some crazy stuff in the primaries, back in 2012. Didn't work well for him. And that was Romney, who has nothing on some of the stuff Trump has said. Hispanics, Muslims, Blacks, and other minorities aren't going to forget the stuff he's said--they can't afford to. Moving to the center isn't an option for him. I mean, he could try... but it wouldn't do anything for him, at this point. Much too late to step it back.
Being labelled a flip flopper is still a bad thing but Trump is uniquely positioned compared to other Republicans for shaking it off. The public already knows that he hasn't always been a Republican and that he has historically supported certain policies, like universal health care (although he no longer does), that go against the party line. He's the only Republican outside of the Pauls, really, to criticize George Bush for 9/11, he frequently says and does things that are unorthodox/racist/sexist/would be death for anyone else running a campaign so simply calling him a flip flopper would be a weak argument in comparison. He'd just shake it off and say all he wants to do is Make America Great Again, however that needs to be done. He calls himself conservative these days but doesn't toe the party line when it comes to a lot of ideology, so he doesn't have to consistently support everything that the party would tell him to - he's free to say whatever he wants, and clearly that hasn't hurt him so far.
If he wants any sort of hope with minorities though he'll have to tone down the rhetoric somehow, but I don't know how that's possible when one of his major proposals is a Great Wall of Mexico.
eBay Huckster
Member
still waiting on what states a trump/omarosa ticket is going to flip from obama's 2012 map that make up for clinton/
castro winning a minimum of Kerry 2004 plus NM/NV/CO/FL
e: actually, NM/NV/CO alone get her to 266, at which point literally any one of IA/OH/VA/NC/FL clinches it
fidel
e: actually, NM/NV/CO alone get her to 266, at which point literally any one of IA/OH/VA/NC/FL clinches it
If he fails I have to assume it'd be due to RNC mutiny (anti-mutiny actually?)
What follows will be fascinating to behold.
Hopefully he runs as an independent and completely fucks them over.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
People can't really believe this. I mean, 6-7 months ago people were laughing at Trump being a candidate. And he kept getting more and more popular, farther and farther into the race. Dismissing him is just as ridiculous as saying that Bush wouldn't get re-elected a 2nd time
Mushroomer25
Member
Honestly, I still have my doubts that Trump even takes the GOP nomination. Once it's a two-man race, I think Rubio is capable of beating him. It's just a matter of Cruz pulling out in time for Rubio to win the delegates. Trump's supporters are vocal, I just don't think they make up enough of the conservative base to take the nomination. Especially when every establishment member is rallied against the man.
I have no doubt he'll be on the national ballot, though. Either he gets the GOP slot, or runs independently. Both paths to a Democratic president, so I can't complain.
Honestly, the later is probably the worse scenario (since it'd motivate more conservatives to vote and impact down-ticket elections) - but I don't see Trump having any clear path to actually winning.
My main question is, where to US politics go from here? The GOP has been completely split from its electorate, the Democrats are starting to get antsy over a lack of progress, and it seems like everyone is becoming totally fine with the idea that absolute obstruction is a valid bargaining tactic. The two-party system seems like it might be on the way out.
I have no doubt he'll be on the national ballot, though. Either he gets the GOP slot, or runs independently. Both paths to a Democratic president, so I can't complain.
Honestly, the later is probably the worse scenario (since it'd motivate more conservatives to vote and impact down-ticket elections) - but I don't see Trump having any clear path to actually winning.
My main question is, where to US politics go from here? The GOP has been completely split from its electorate, the Democrats are starting to get antsy over a lack of progress, and it seems like everyone is becoming totally fine with the idea that absolute obstruction is a valid bargaining tactic. The two-party system seems like it might be on the way out.
HUELEN10
Member
Why did you quote yourself? I don't get it.
I think the 2-party system is not going away, but it will have a major change within the next 12 or so years, as it has in decades past.
Stop being obtuse. I quoted myself because what I posted applied.
HUELEN10
Member
Oh, you misunderstand; he took the words out of my mouth. Do apologize for the confusion. Edited my prior post.
Abinash117
Member
Because 6-7 months ago people didn't know know how the primary voters are and if Trump is going to be serious. It could have been anyone, Trump is the one to take advantage of it. He got more popular in a overwhelming white primary that is anti-establishment and he is unpopular among everyone else. Do you have something that suggest otherwise ?
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