Should Microsoft be given a third chance with PC Gaming ?

With the recent commitment from Microsoft to be meaningful on PC Gaming, there's been a lot of reactions. Some positives, some negatives, the reality is that Microsoft seems to be eager to bring their IPs to Windows... but with a catch: The Windows Store, their new ecosystem. Which raise the question, since this is Microsoft third attempt after two unsuccessful one with GFWL: Should Microsoft be trusted again and given a third chance ?

First of all, I'd like to say what I mean by 3rd chance or two first attempts. GFWL first released with games being exclusives to the Live Marketplace. And online play was under a paywall with Xbox Live Gold. The reception was really negative on that one. After that, Microsoft commited to more PC support again, and brought GFWL games to Steam and other storefronts, and made online play free.

But despite major 3rd parties using this service, most of the people would get these games elsewhere than the marketplace, which led to Microsoft purely and simply shutting GFWL down.

As of today, any GFWL game that hasn't been patched won't have working online component. Worse than that, any of your games bought on the Marketplace are lost if you didn't downloaded them. Ironically, if you bought these games on Steam, you can still download them and some of them also have been patched to use Steamworks service. Microsoft didn't thought of bringing any solution to that....

Which bring us to the 3rd attempt: The Windows Store. Microsoft is basically announcing a new service which this time, isn't only about gaming, but everything. Of course, the chance of this being shutdown are really low... but many issues are already raising:

-UWA or Universal Windows Apps. Basically, Microsoft new apps standard, which makes your programs more akin to smartphone app, with no access to files and limited gaming options (forcing borderless fullscreen, vsync, no support for dual GPU or 3rd party overlays like FRAPS/Rivatuner/NVidia Inspector). The service is just lackluster and is basically late on fonctions we have in every other clients.

-Windows Store only: Every content, especially games, are sold exclusively on the Windows Store. No Amazon, no Greenmangaming, no Steam, nothing. Basically, there's only one place to get your games, at one price. It's especially infuriating since GFWL issues has yet to be fixed (which may never be fixed in fact) when the Marketplace and GFWL have been shut down. It's even more of an issue when the only reason some GFWL games are still playable is because of more reliable services

As for me, after making such a disaster, Microsoft should comply to the standards already in place. I know some people would just say "it's part of their ecosystem" "there's no gain for them" but I disagree. I think the best thing for Microsoft is to keep making Windows a good place to use, especially when the solutions in place are contributing to make Windows such an amazing OS for gaming.
 
They can have as many chances as they want. It doesn't mean we have to believe them without waiting for solid results.

Though I will say their latest effort is really starting on the wrong foot. Much like all their other "chances" and those went further downhill from there.
 
Its a cautious wait and watch for me right now.

The only thing I have bought on the W10 store is Minecraft, but till recently that was the only decent thing available. I am not one of those "NO STEAM NO BUY" kinda people so I am definitely open to getting stuff from there.
 
The 2007 Microsoft isn't even idencital to the 2016 Microsoft in terms of leadship and such, so yea.
Well they are already out the gate failing. Windows Store DRM which forces V-Sync, Windowed Mode, and Restricts user control. In fact they are already doing worse than before.
 
Its a cautious wait and watch for me right now.

The only thing I have bought on the W10 store is Minecraft, but till recently that was the only decent thing available. I am not one of those "NO STEAM NO BUY" kinda people so I am definitely open to getting stuff from there.

I'd rather buy from GOG/Steam/Origin right now, or just get discs ordered online for games e.g. for Blizzard games or older games.

There's too many caveats going to W10 store/DX12 right now that frighten me as a PC gamer. Why they are trying to wrestle control away to consolize the PC? Maybe it works for some, but definitely not for me.

Still on Windows 7 here and no plans to upgrade.
 
Its a cautious wait and watch for me right now.

The only thing I have bought on the W10 store is Minecraft, but till recently that was the only decent thing available. I am not one of those "NO STEAM NO BUY" kinda people so I am definitely open to getting stuff from there.


I don't think it's about being open or not. I don't think people are close minded or tied to a brand or anything. But there's no denying that not every ecosystems are equal on fonctionnalities or even policies. The reasons I'm not getting anything on W10 store is basically tied to Microsoft past and present policies.
 
They can have as many chances as they want. It doesn't mean we have to believe them without waiting for solid results.

Though I will say their latest effort is really starting on the wrong foot. Much like all their other "chances" and those went further downhill from there.

Yup. I'm all for giving Microsoft another chance. Yes, I will be skeptical because of their past, but that doesn't mean I'm automatically against Microsoft. But they aren't exactly winning me over with their moves this time around.

I don't mind their games being Windows 10 store exclusive. It's their game, they can sell it however they want. But their moves with DX12 and UWA are worrying, and has me in a wait and see mode regarding their games. For now, I'll stick with other digital platforms.

The problem isn't about being W10 exclusive, but W10 store exclusive.

Oops, edited. I don't mind Windows 10 store exclusives, it's really their other moves (DX12, UWA) that make me wary.
 
Well, if the games are good as people are saying they certainly have the killer apps.

Here's the thing though, if the intention is to compete with Steam directly, they've already failed. On top of being 10 years late, the games on their platform are being released with less features than their Steam and Origin versions. That is unacceptable.

You can't really use the excuse that Steam was like that in the beginning either. Steam was one of the early digital distribution storefronts, they could've afforded to make mistakes because they were the first. Trying to compete we the Steam without trying to implement some of its most basic features would be like a new car company going head to head with GM by releasing a car without airbags.
 
Yup. I'm all for giving Microsoft another chance. Yes, I will be skeptical because of their past, but that doesn't mean I'm automatically against Microsoft. But they aren't exactly winning me over with their moves this time around.

I don't mind their games being Windows 10 exclusive. It's their game, they can sell it however they want. But their moves with DX12 and UWA are worrying, and has me in a wait and see mode regarding their games. For now, I'll stick with other digital platforms.



The problem isn't about being W10 exclusive, but W10 store exclusive.
 
No. Just because actually it's impossible to download from GFWL the games I BOUGHT with REAL money on GFW store.
I tried to ask help to the support (a Steam key for Fable 3, in example), I got nothing.
I tried to ask some kind of refund, I got nothing.
I gave them money and I have nothing.
Luckily some games got a Steamwork passage to I have them on Steam, now, but I'm plenty of games and dlcs I can't use. Why this time should be different?
 
They can have as many chances as they want. It doesn't mean we have to believe them without waiting for solid results.

Though I will say their latest effort is really starting on the wrong foot. Much like all their other "chances" and those went further downhill from there.

The wrong foot? Why?
 
They own Windows, that equals infinite chances. But we as consumers shouldn't give them the time of day until they get it right. Got GFWL stuff in my library that is effectively useless because they couldn't be bothered.
 
UWAs show that Microsoft hasn't changed. They're selling you the same shit they tried 10 years ago

This is just a lie.

I bought Lost Planet 2 during a sale last week and played co-op with my friend.

I can't even access my purchases on GFWL and haven't for 3 weeks. They're still "looking into it"
 
they can earn trust if they want too but sadly its going to take a very long time.

i see only pain and frustration in trusting them on the pc side. if they keep it up for 5-10 years and i will reconsider but they were bad for decades in many markets they have a lot of work to do to earn trust.
 
I read that as "Should MS go third party with PC". I was confused.

Well yeah, they should be given another chance. They seem to be doing good this time around and we don't have someone like Mattrick in charge of gaming at MS anymore.
 
It's Microsoft's move honestly. They have to, at the very least, make their product as usable as others. I'm not talking communities, overlays, and all the other nice little things Steam/Origin/GOG have added/adding to themselves over the years - both have had to come a long way for that - just simply make games outside of the UWAs would be a nice start. Anything really to show they actually care. Paying more for an inferior product, economics say what?

Damn, I just realised I've gotten to the stage of using Origin in a positive form.
 
I love everything MS is doing but I just can't let the UWP store with it's limitations on mods, no overlay and injections slide.

Until they fix it I won't upgrade.
 
I can't even access my purchases on GFWL and haven't for 3 weeks. They're still "looking into it"

Yeah, but that is another issue. Online gameplay still works.

But if I login on the marketplace client, it won't show my gamerpic, gamescore or purchases.
 
As long as the game released on Windows store holds great performance, why not?
I don't trust Microsoft less than Valve or any other big company just because GFWL (different times, different leaders).

I intend to use Windows store, as well as keep using Steam, Origin and any other service that interest me enough.
 
As long as the game released on Windows store holds great performance, why not?
I don't trust Microsoft less than Valve or any other big company just because GFWL (different times, different leaders).



Different times where 2 years ago. :p
XBox One was released when GFWL was still a thing :p
 
I'm all good with giving chances - but MS have failed previously, spectacularly, and as such I will wait several years to watch how things go and if they can earn enough trust through consistent support and stability of their service over those years. Not to mention I was burned with the Xbox 360 as well and its services.

Right now, MS fail categorically due to the limitations of UWA and the reduced functionality I expect for PC applications I purchase - part of the reason I enjoy PC gaming in the first place. Now because of that, even if they correct it, it is more of a reason to not have faith in their intentions and products, so I'll do more waiting.
 
It's already DOA for me as of right now. The dumb restrictions for stuff on the windows store is terrible. The fact the new forza game wont be compatible with pc wheels is completely crazy to me.
 
They can have as many chances as they want. It doesn't mean we have to believe them without waiting for solid results.

Though I will say their latest effort is really starting on the wrong foot. Much like all their other "chances" and those went further downhill from there.

First post nails it.

TL;DR: If Microsoft ever wants to succeed with their own store they have to trust the consumer first, for the consumer to trust Microsoft.

Let me explain
Microsoft basically blew all consumer trust they could have had with Windows Store Day 1, just like Origin did back then with their intrusive license agreement on launch. Nobody trusts Microsoft gaming stores, since GFWL was such an annoying failure. Getting rid of this lockin to GFWL was huge for the gaming community.

Now they start again with even more lockin to the ecosystem. They have to trust the consumer and let him enjoy the games on the platform in a way he likes.

Possible solutions:
  1. optional Steamworks library integration
  2. even DRM-Free distribution
  3. Moddability
  4. Free Multiplayer
 
Here's my take:

Yes, there's room for everyone. But MS is already trying to ignore the way PC gaming has evolved and is trying to force their way of thinking on an open platform.

Say what you want about Valve, Ubi, EA, GOG etc, but they are all pretty good at making sure their stores and software play nicely with each other.

I don't want to have multiple launchers, friends lists, chat etc. So for my needs, Steam is currently the most developed and complete application so that's my launcher. I'm happy to buy games from Origin and uPlay because I can integrate everything under one program and play all my games from the couch using nothing but my controller to get everything going. I can use fraps or any other program I like in conjunction because those other companies actually seem to be amenable to the specialist nature of PC gamers. We want to tinker, we want to mod, we want to benchmark, it's part of the fun and they generally don't try to stop us.

UWAs are set up poorly in this respect. They are very tough to add to another launcher, limit user control and allow no other programs to run in conjunction. It's really annoying and fundamentally ignores the preferences of a significant percentage of PC gamers. They've stated that "we're looking into it" but that simply shows that they don't yet have an understanding of PC gaming. Those features should've been there on day one and as long as they are absent, I'll pass on their games. (as an aside, Win 10s store currently won't even let me download any apps of any kind, just keeps throwing up the same connection error. Been happening for months, so again it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence)

But for now, of course they are welcome to come and convince the PC crowd. It would just be nice if they didn't immediately seem to be half-assing it.
 
No, the new Store is alredy the same as GFWL or worse in my eyes, just look at how much restrictions it has.
 
They should have tried to make some kind of meaningful partnership with Valve and had Steam integrated right into Windows, much the same way that things like Skype and Bing are (for better or worse). Obviously Steam would remain its own thing, usable on other devices, but it would work "natively" on Windows 10 and be incorporated right into the OS. I'm not a diehard fan of Valve's or anything, but you it would be silly to deny that Steam is the most used, most popular digital storefront for games.

Trying to start their own storefront this late in the game is frankly just an irritation. Couple that with the fact that the games have kind of gimped functionality for enthusiast users (no SweetFX, Fraps, stuff like that) and it really just doesn't make a good impression. I'm not saying I'll never buy a game on the W10 store, it's not enough to stop me, but it will never be my go-to place to get games and see what's available, so in that regard it's a failure from the get-go.
 
The fact the new forza game wont be compatible with pc wheels is completely crazy to me.

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Seriously Microsoft? Seriously?
 
It's not about giving chances. Provide a product I want and I'll buy into it.

They aren't there yet, and I suspect UWA might be their undoing this time around. I understand what they're trying to do (see: iOS app store) but I think trying to apply enthusiast level gaming to it will leave everyone with the worst of both worlds in the end.
 
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