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[User 463088]

Someone asked for the Democratic totals with Supers?

Hillary 1001
Bernie 371

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

damn...

 

[excelsiorlef]

I think they deserve to be called out because I think they are wrong, but I disagree with something fundamental here.

It is NOT about privilege. It is not. Millennials are the first generation of Americans that will do worse than their parents in a very long time. They are DROWNING in student debt. The jobs are not paying enough. They cant buy houses. They cant have kids without it ruining their lives. Blue collar Democrats are in a similar position. Underemployed, no careers. All the wealth going upward.

This is what white Hillary supporters (which are generally richer) dont get. People are fucking DESPERATE FOR CHANGE because the current situation is NOT working for them. Hillary is basically campaigning as continuing the past 8 year of the rich still getting richer plus a sprinkling of slow, 5% change.

It is the people that can tolerate, slow 5% change while everyone else gets fucked that are the privileged ones.

Again, I don't agree with these people, but I understand them. For Hillary supporters it is a complete whoosh. How about you listen and try to understand why someone would prefer Trump over Hillary and try to address it instead of dismiss it?



look at this shit. Exactly what I said!!! ^

Exit polls showed yet again low youth turn out.... so they might be desperate but they aren't showing up to vote.

 

[metalslimer]

It is not about stated views or teaching her a lesson. Read my post above. It is about someone backed into a corner with two options. One option you know what you get. The other is a gamble. You cant afford to not gamble.

So they'll gamble with minority lives instead. Seems reasonable.

And by this logic you can excuse any group of desperate people over the centuries that have turned to evil men because they felt it was the only way out.

 

[RPS37]

If there are Bernie supporters willing to switch from Bernie to trump then they must think your views align more with trump then Hillary.

That's problematic.

Or they just want an "outsider" and don't actually care much about substantive issues.

Or they just want to vote as a protest about how they didn't get their way.

All of these are really problematic traits.

I was talking to some people about it the other day. They said "would you rather vote for a liar or a racist?"
They picked racist. (Trump, obvi..even though he's lied plenty of times)
They're totally wrong about everything, but that's how they felt.

 

[boiled goose]

It doesn't matter if they call everyone unreasonable - it matters whether the electorate believes it. With Sanders, that case would be much easier to make given his radical policies.

Tell me one policy from Sanders that a majority or significant chuck of Americans actually dont agree with him on.

 

[MThanded]

Yes, we already knew that the new crowd of voters Bernie's campaign is attracting is generally apathetic towards politics. Now that they've finally found a candidate that engages them, a vocal portion of Hillary supporters are actively talking down to them for being delusional, immature kiddies.

I'm fine with either democratic candidate. Sad to see some people don't actually care about the issues their candidate is rallying behind.

Especially sad for me as a black male. Knowing that people who are supposed to be my compatriots are willing to go vote for trump is disheartening. Those people aren't progressives. I'm sorry if that offends you but it's the truth. And it's a scary one. What are their true intentions? Smile in your face and act like they care about some social issues but honestly they are swept up in the hype?

 

[DeviantBoi]

I know it's popular to say that GAF isn't a hive mind, but there's definitely a kind of groupthink or consolidation of opinions that takes place. It's why people are able to say that GAF is very liberal. There's more opposition when voicing conservative opinion that pushes those people away from political discussions. Similarly, it's easier to voice a liberal opinion and meet agreement so those people are encouraged to participate more. Over time you get these groups which each circle around a single predominant narrative. For example, we have BernGAF and HillGAF as people like to say. There's definitely a tone that each group has, and a particular set of talking points that resonates within each group, giving the group an identity beyond the sum of the individual members.

As you mentioned, I think the big reason that there's a hostility to Bernie's campaign is because people care a lot about winning. People who follow the political process on a regular basis probably do so because they have some interest in the horse race. Bernie is an obstacle to winning, clear and simple. This is the argument that gets repeated frequently, that Hillary is the better choice because she's more electable. It ignores that politics happens on a social level, outside of seats in government.

I don't actually think Bernie Sanders would make a very good President. He, like Elizabeth Warren, is an ideologue with a narrow view of how the world works. He probably wouldn't do well in a position of power when reality tends to deviate from expectations. Much like the Republicans (and GAF), he tends to try to fit reality into a preconceived ideological framework.

But I'm rooting for his candidacy because his success, even if he doesn't win, is able to bring change to the political discourse and the Democratic party. This is where I'm somewhat disappointed, that others seem to be so hostile to his movement when I feel they should be glad that he's able to do so well. And that's where I start to suspect that some aren't as on-board with socialism as they would like to believe.

What are some of those conservative opinions that get shot down by GAF?

 

[excelsiorlef]

That is the thing, what exactly was he supposed to do?

He started the race very far behind Clinton when it came to minorities, he was pretty much doomed from the onset.

There is very little that he could have done to close that gap. Especially since he was selling a theoretical, while Clinton was an essential certainty.

Clinton had South Carolina in the bag but she was still there meeting with community leaders. Sanders flew over on his way to Minnesota. He didn't even try.

 

[GuessMyUserName]

This shit again. Condemn their actions but please remove this racial framework. Sanders polling better with liberal whites doesn't mean all Bernie supporters are fucking white-people. Jesus Christ.

The post isn't talking about "Sanders supporters" but about ones that would specifically support Trump should Sanders bow out which would contradict being a Sanders supporter in the first place.

If you'd move to Trump then you don't actually care about Sanders's policies, period.

 

[Striek]

I was talking to some people about it the other day. They said "would you rather vote for a liar or a racist?"
They picked racist. (Trump, obvi..even though he's lied plenty of times)
They're totally wrong about everything, but that's how they felt.

Really amazing voxpop here. Makes you think. Deep. Meaningful. Wow.

 

[dallow_bg]

Has to have been posted already but I liked this enough I'll repost it.

http://twitter.com/albz/status/704907566040653826

 

[Maitiú]

...Are we in the same fucking universe? Of all things to say, you say that?

What a waste of time your post is.

 

[Prodigal Son]

A ton of college age students are yik yakking about how they and many of their friends straight up forgot to register to vote.

loldammit millennials.

The post isn't talking about "Sanders supporters" but about ones that would specifically support Trump should Sanders bow out which would contradict being a Sanders supporter in the first place.

If you'd move to Trump then you don't actually care about Sanders's policies, period.

Nothing you said here has anything to do with the racial-framing that I've been criticizing.

I think they are referring to the privilege of voting for Trump rather than people voting for Sanders. There is a lot at stake with a GOP President, and granted, Trump could be anything. He's a wild card. But that privilege isn't just race. It's also LGBT individuals that will have a lot more obstacles to face as well. A lot of people's lives could potentially get worse with Trump and a completely GOP dominated Congress (not to mention Supreme Court). I'm not saying anything one way or another but it is something to look at.

I don't consider voting for a Trump a privilege. His policy would be especially bad for minority groups and LGBT people. It'd also be bad for everyone. People voting for Trump are a lot of things, but the idea that they'd necessarily 'privileged' is silly.

 

[Meowster]

This shit again. Condemn their actions but please remove this racial framework. Sanders polling better with liberal whites doesn't mean all Bernie supporters are fucking white-people. Jesus Christ.

I think they are referring to the privilege of voting for Trump rather than people voting for Sanders. There is a lot at stake with a GOP President, and granted, Trump could be anything. He's a wild card. But that privilege isn't just race. It's also LGBT individuals that will have a lot more obstacles to face as well. A lot of people's lives could potentially get worse with Trump and a completely GOP dominated Congress (not to mention Supreme Court). I'm not saying anything one way or another but it is something to look at.

 

[Nerokis]

Exit polls showed yet again low youth turn out.... so they might be desperate but they aren't showing up to vote.

This idea that Bernie supporters are being driven by desperation into Trump's arms is almost painfully ridiculous, and I can't believe someone is making that case with so much passion.

 

[SneakersSO]

Just wanna throw in my voice with the others that will be voting for either Bernie or Jill Stein in the GE, regardless of who wins the nomination. It's been discussed in other threads - I just wanted the other Bernie supporters who can't bring themselves to vote for Hillary to know that you aren't alone.

I know many on GAF will dog pile on you when you share this, but don't let that discourage you. You havr your reasons, whatever they may be. Just make sure you do go out and vote - I don't care who it's for, just do it.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

Has to have been posted already but I liked this enough I'll repost it.

http://twitter.com/albz/status/704907566040653826

too bad vines aren't a couple seconds longer. still great.

 

[Downhome]

I'm starting to think Carson stays in until the 15th, drops out that night finally, and straight away endorses Trump to do all he can to ensure his supporters go to him and not Cruz.

 

[Officerrob]

Nate Silver ‏@NateSilver538 2m2 minutes ago
Super Tuesday winners:
Democratic race: Hillary Clinton
Republican race: Hillary Clinton

 

[boiled goose]

Exit polls showed yet again low youth turn out.... so they might be desperate but they aren't showing up to vote.

True and sad yes. They are both desperate but also completely dis-empowered and unengaged. They trust in the process at all.

So they'll gamble with minority lives instead. Seems reasonable.

You keep wrapping yourself in the minority blanket and missing the entire point. In their perspective, not gambling is near certain condemnation of these lives. Again, minorities HAVE NOT done well under Obama.

And again to clarify, I dont think they would do better under a republican, but the choices you are painting are not accurate.

 

[Plumbob]

Just wanna throw in my voice with the others that will be voting for either Bernie or Jill Stein in the GE, regardless of who wins the nomination. It's been discussed in other threads - I just wanted the other Bernie supporters who can't bring themselves to vote for Hillary that you aren't alone.

I know many on GA WILL dog pile on you when you share this, but don't let that discourage you. You havr your reasons, whatever they may be. Just make sure you do go out and vote - I don't care who it's for, just do it.

Enough people doing this could elect Donald Trump. No reason is good enough to justify that outcome.

 

[Striek]

Nate Silver ‏@NateSilver538 2m2 minutes ago
Super Tuesday winners:
Democratic race: Hillary Clinton
Republican race: Hillary Clinton

Hes holding that L so tight.

 

[Maitiú]

Tell me one policy from Sanders that a majority or significant chuck of Americans actually dont agree with him on.

$15 minimum wage
Nationalizing health-care
Free College tuition

 

[metalslimer]

Just wanna throw in my voice with the others that will be voting for either Bernie or Jill Stein in the GE, regardless of who wins the nomination. It's been discussed in other threads - I just wanted the other Bernie supporters who can't bring themselves to vote for Hillary to know that you aren't alone.

I know many on GA WILL dog pile on you when you share this, but don't let that discourage you. You havr your reasons, whatever they may be. Just make sure you do go out and vote - I don't care who it's for, just do it.

Also vote in all your local elections. They can affect people a lot more immediately than the presidential election. While I disagree with voting 3rd party in the US right now I can at least understand it

 

[Box]

What are some of those conservative opinions that get shot down by GAF?

There are a number of Trump supporters on GAF. They don't really have their own in-depth discussion about it. It's hard for them to fit in here. Staking out an opinion for Trump and trying to defend it is difficult because there are a lot of people who will challenge you and few who will agree with you. I'm not saying that's anyone's fault. That's just how things tend to happen. Agreeing is easier than disagreeing.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Enough people doing this could elect Donald Trump. No reason is good enough to justify that outcome.

but woah man wait. as a straight, white, middle-class male, i have to stick to my principles!

 

[MThanded]

Also I'm willing to vote for whoever is nominated. Too much is at stake here. Your write in candidate can't nominate a Supreme Court justice.

 

[RPS37]

Really amazing voxpop here. Makes you think. Deep. Meaningful. Wow.

I can't tell if you're talking down to me or the people I was talking about.
I'm not too worried about them though. They were young people I doubt will even vote when the time comes.

Edit: I guess I thought you were being sarcastic and you weren't. My bad.

 

[DeviantBoi]

It is not about stated views or teaching her a lesson. Read my post above. It is about someone backed into a corner with two options. One option you know what you get. The other is a gamble. You cant afford to not gamble.

Well, Trump is a gamble, yes.

For example, he said he was pro choice and now he's pro life.

He agreed with a ban on assault rifles and now he doesn't.

You never know which position he'll stick to.

Are you willing to bet nuclear codes on a gamble such as Trump?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Enough people doing this could elect Donald Trump. No reason is good enough to justify that outcome.

If that's what happens, it's entirely Clinton's fault for weak messaging. Don't pass the blame on to voters for an issue her camp couldn't address.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Mark Harris ‏@MarkHarrisNYC 14m
Tonight's actual vote totals:
Clinton: 3.381M
Trump: 2.839M
Cruz: 2.358M
Sanders: 2.158M
Rubio: 1.818M

Call him Marco Polo, because he's underwater.

 

[GuessMyUserName]

Nothing you said here has anything to do with the racial-framing that I've been criticizing.

I'm not talking about that? I'm pointing out your misdirected argument.

Your response was in defense of Sanders supporters, the person you quoted was referring to Trump supporters. The "racial-framing" that you're talking mentioning (in a post that didn't actually mention *race*) was perfectly valid when it comes to Trump.

 

[pigeon]

I know it's popular to say that GAF isn't a hive mind, but there's definitely a kind of groupthink or consolidation of opinions that takes place. It's why people are able to say that GAF is very liberal. There's more opposition when voicing conservative opinion that pushes those people away from political discussions. Similarly, it's easier to voice a liberal opinion and meet agreement so those people are encouraged to participate more. Over time you get these groups which each circle around a single predominant narrative. For example, we have BernGAF and HillGAF as people like to say. There's definitely a tone that each group has, and a particular set of talking points that resonates within each group, giving the group an identity beyond the sum of the individual members.

As you mentioned, I think the big reason that there's a hostility to Bernie's campaign is because people care a lot about winning. People who follow the political process on a regular basis probably do so because they have some interest in the horse race. Bernie is an obstacle to winning, clear and simple. This is the argument that gets repeated frequently, that Hillary is the better choice because she's more electable. It ignores that politics happens on a social level as well, outside of seats in government.

I mean, I don't think it ignores that at all? You can very easily argue that Hillary is a better choice for the presidential nomination and that Bernie's campaign is a good thing. I certainly would! Equating supporting Hillary with wanting Bernie not to even have run is not well considered.

Characterizing it as a horse race is also really inaccurate. I care a lot about winning because I want to advance progressive policies. To do that, you have to win. That's just how elections work. So wanting to win is, like, kind of a requirement for wanting anything progressive to actually happen.

If your goal is to express how progressive you are, rather than to get progressive policies in place, then Sanders is probably a better choice.

I don't actually think Bernie Sanders would make a very good President. He, like Elizabeth Warren, is an ideologue with a narrow view of how the world works. He probably wouldn't do well in a position of power when reality tends to deviate from expectations. Much like the Republicans (and GAF), he tends to try to fit reality into a preconceived ideological framework. I'll get nervous if these are the only voices we get on these issues, but this isn't the predominant criticism of Sanders.

I'm rooting for his candidacy because his success, even if he doesn't win, is able to bring change to the political discourse and the Democratic party. This is where I'm somewhat disappointed, that others seem to be so hostile to his movement when I feel they should be glad that he's able to do so well. And that's where I start to suspect that some aren't as on-board with socialism as they would like to believe.

I mean, I think the problem is that Sanders is a terrible advocate for socialism. I prefer my socialism not married to isolationism and protectionism, and to be intersectional.

I am certainly hopefully for socialist candidates in the future who can avoid the trap of white populism and who can actually win a general election.

 

[MThanded]

True and sad yes. They are both desperate but also completely dis-empowered and unengaged. They trust in the process at all.



You keep wrapping yourself in the minority blanket and missing the entire point. In their perspective, not gambling is near certain condemnation of these lives. Again, minorities HAVE NOT done well under Obama.

And again to clarify, I dont think they would do better under a republican, but the choices you are painting are not accurate.

These are republican talking points.
Sad to see them using them to prop up your point.
Obama isn't running for a third term.

 

[Plumbob]

If that's what happens, it's entirely Clinton's fault for weak messaging. Don't pass the blame on to voters for an issue her camp couldn't address.

Voters choose who they vote for, though. The responsibility is in their hands to act responsibly.

 

[Necrovex]

$15 minimum wage
Nationalizing health-care
Free College tuition

NPR's Planet Money had a great episode using 20 different economists explaining why some of these ideas were awful. It was intriguing to hear how many economist disagreed with free college and a 15/hr minimum wage.

 

[excelsiorlef]

True and sad yes. They are both desperate but also completely dis-empowered and unengaged. They trust in the process at all.



You keep wrapping yourself in the minority blanket and missing the entire point. In their perspective, not gambling is near certain condemnation of these lives. Again, minorities HAVE NOT done well under Obama.

And again to clarify, I dont think they would do better under a republican, but the choices you are painting are not accurate.

Show up...vote. That's their power. Instead those that don't will just post on reddit about it being a conspiracy.


Also you can't have it both ways. Either Sanders is inspiring the youth or he isn't. Reality is showing that he isn't. Youth love him but they're voting on reddit instead of at the polls.

 

[TyrantII]

Why? What does that achieve?

Ensuring 0% of his platform gets enacted. Instead of the parts Clinton adopts. Total logic!

I mean, look at the GOP. They didn't spend 40 years building something so influential that even the zodiac killer has a better than remote shot at the presidency! Nope. It's was done with unicorn farts and magic practically overnight with protest voting.

Politics probably isn't for people that aren't in it for the long haul. Its also why politicians ignore them and their issues don't find a footing.

 

[BrutishMrFish]

Yes, we already knew that the new crowd of voters Bernie's campaign is attracting is generally apathetic towards politics. Now that they've finally found a candidate that engages them, a vocal portion of Hillary supporters are actively talking down to them for being delusional, immature kiddies.

That's because a vocal group of Bernie's supporters are actively demonstrating that they are immature - to the point where they're wasting his resources when his staff have to tell such people to back off. There's a difference between being enthusiastic about a candidate and being such an ass that you make your candidate look worse by association, which is something that a lot of his supporters in threads like this one seem to forget. Do some Hillary supporters do the same? Sure, but Bernie's supporters have proven to be far more media-savvy, and far more noticeable as a result.

I still want him to do as much as he can to get his message across, and hopefully Bernie 2.0 will do even better.

 

[boiled goose]

$15 minimum wage
Nationalizing health-care
Free College tuition

Show me polls.

This idea that Bernie supporters are being driven by desperation into Trump's arms is almost painfully ridiculous, and I can't believe someone is making that case with so much passion.

Hey maybe I'm wrong. It is simply my interpretation based on my own personal perspective, the facts I have available, and what I have seen and heard from those around me.

Talk to some blue collar workers about why they might support Trump over Hillary.

And Again, I disagree with their conclusion. they have the wrong boogie man, but they know that the system is rigged against it and more of the same aint gonna cut it.

These are republican talking points.
Sad to see them using them to prop up your point.
Obama isn't running for a third term.

Oh FFS.
come on now.
It is not my fault that things are not great and Hillary is campaigning as Obama 3.0.

Are they talking points or are they facts??? I'm not trying to drive a specific agenda. I'm trying to explain to you guys why some people dont like the idea of voting for Clinton.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

If that's what happens, it's entirely Clinton's fault for weak messaging. Don't pass the blame on to voters for an issue her camp couldn't address.

actually i would put the blame on those sanders supporters not realizing the two are 93% or whatever similar, and listening to the sanders driven rhetoric instead of her voting record, over her not being a socialist democrat herself

 

[Prodigal Son]

I'm not talking about that? I'm pointing out your misdirected argument.

Your response was in defense of Sanders supporters, the person you quoted was referring to Trump supporters. The "racial-framing" that you're talking mentioning (in a post that didn't actually mention *race*) was perfectly valid when it comes to Trump.

I wasn't defending all Sanders supporters. I was attacking the idea that Sanders supporters who do and say stupid things are white men.

They're not. That's it.

 

[Soyongdori]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3blH1i5OyTE

 

[Tesseract]

Just wanna throw in my voice with the others that will be voting for either Bernie or Jill Stein in the GE, regardless of who wins the nomination. It's been discussed in other threads - I just wanted the other Bernie supporters who can't bring themselves to vote for Hillary to know that you aren't alone.

I know many on GAF will dog pile on you when you share this, but don't let that discourage you. You havr your reasons, whatever they may be. Just make sure you do go out and vote - I don't care who it's for, just do it.

hell yeah

 

[MThanded]

If that's what happens, it's entirely Clinton's fault for weak messaging. Don't pass the blame on to voters for an issue her camp couldn't address.

Nothing Clinton would say could change some people's minds. They would find it a positive to undermine the party's chances. Ultimate revolt for not getting what they wanted.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

One thing I'm interested in watching is, if it seems like Trump is going to pull away with it and the attention cools down on the GOP, I wonder if more attention on DNC will lead to higher voter turn outs.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Voters choose who they vote for, though.

And they're either engaged with the party's messaging, or they aren't. It's the candidates job to galvanize their base

 

[Crosseyes]

damn...

It's really awful how the situations reflect each other. Sure Hillary seems to have the advantage over Trump but nothings ever set in stone. If Trump convinces enough people that incremental same old same old isnt the way and his way is... I'll start to feel sympathy for resistance and terrorist groups if we have Donald "kill their families" Trump as the leader of the Western world.

 

[MThanded]

Why? What does that achieve?

Electorate not understanding compromise. And willing to gamble on serious social issues and a SCOTUS nomination to make a point.