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Fighting Game Headquarters |3| [Cinematic Title Expansion Coming Soon]

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Dahbomb said:
Karin and Nash have a lot of players on them too. Hard to say really.

Thing is that these stats are still important because this is what Capcom sees. In order to ensure balance parity across different skill types.. for them Sim is on the top of their nerf list right now.
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This I agree with. I am just saying even less than 10% difference is a significant enough stat. If you are seeing like 20% or 30% deviations from the 50% average the character is obviously broken and shouldn't have made it into the game in that state.

I'd also say there is a problem with Gief because he is one of the least used characters and still has a really low win rate compared to the ones in the bottom of the popularity list. So even for the more dedicated players the character is hard to use online.
 
The online environment exploit is a real factor when analyzing these online stats.

Hulk is one of the best characters in online UMVC3 with a reasonably high win % and even high up on the rankings but offline he's a Mid tier character. I believe for quite a while the best player online was a Hulk player. That's mostly because Hulk abuses the online environment and the one game format.

That's probably much less of a factor in SFV but I believe it's still a factor. However, I feel that would apply more to a character like Birdie than Sim.
 
One thing to add to the player skill argument, presumably Capcom should have a working matchmaking system that aims for a near to 50% win rate. That should be at least somewhat offsetting the deviation that would be caused by a lower average skill levels of players for specific characters.

The classic shoto playstyle is probably just not a good fit for the online meta.
 
Wow looks like Aquasilk is alive and is maybe even going to the next NLBC. He was sighted at Chris Hus stream chat, his twitter got deleted because it was deactivated for 30 days. If it is archived you can see it in the in his latest archive.
 
skLaFarebear said:
"Mago said that Nash isn't a good character"
Mago pls

American PSN tech too strong.
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straight up the Jounouchi of the FGC.

CT-4AFSVAAA1dQL.png
 
Line_HTX said:
This has to be a slap in the face. To be ranked below Naruto of all things...

Should've had some kind of arcade presence, but then I think about what Harada says about arcade operators and being beholden to them for as long as possible... It's a dilemma on revenue and console release.

=/
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I mean that's the thing it's Naruto. It's very popular regardless if you like the series or not. Honestly the only reason I won't play those games is because I haven't seen the end in the manga as I want to see it during the anime(Which really need to end these fillers btw.) Getting beat out by that digitally isn't even a bad mark like at all.
 
RellyRell28 said:
I mean that's the thing it's Naruto. It's very popular regardless if you like the series or not. Honestly the only reason I won't play those games is because I haven't seen the end in the manga as I want to see it during the anime(Which really need to end these fillers btw.) Getting beat out by that digitally isn't even a bad mark like at all.
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Luffy will find One Piece before this happens.
 
Lostconfused said:
Personal stats should at least be presented to players. Hopefully they will be once the march update and challenges and whatever else happen.

I'd be lobbying for Ken buffs first, third most popular character with the lowest win rate, and like way below 50% low, of them all is a bit concerning.
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Ranked stats carry literally no weight right now on both ends of the spectrum.

Dahbomb said:
Sim on the other hand is one of the least played characters yet has the highest win rate with the best match ups.

That tells me one of these things is going on:

*People haven't figured out how to play against Sim yet.
*Sim might exploit the online environment more than other characters.
*The few people who play Sim are specialists and if they pick him they are usually very good with him.


Thing is that these stats are still important because this is what Capcom sees. In order to ensure balance parity across different skill types.. for them Sim is on the top of their nerf list right now.
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#1 and #3 are truth, but the online environment is less kind to Dhalsim than most of the cast.

Balancing characters around different skill types to ensure parity for all is a hokey notion in itself because why influence the game's individual design (rather than universal tuning) for people who don't know any better for whatever reason in this context? Said reason could be one of many factors entirely unrelated to core mechanics.
 
Sayah said:
WOOOOWW!!
The detail on this dress is stunning.
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I think the original design had team ninja's input in the first game so it goes to say they'd do this well. This is a good part of the reason their dlc model works due to a pretty busy art team.
 
Crab Milk Mickey said:
Balancing characters around different skill types to ensure parity for all is a hokey notion in itself because why influence the game's individual design (rather than universal tuning) for people who don't know any better for whatever reason in this context? Said reason could be one of many factors entirely unrelated to core mechanics.
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I used to believe this myself. Until I started learning more about game design and how developers tend to balance their games. And more importantly what differentiates successful multiplayer games from unsuccessful ones.

You can't always balance for the highest level of skill. If you do then there is bound to be an easy to utilize noob killer strategy that makes it unfun for players at the lower end of the spectrum. And it has been done in SF4 as well, will probably happen in SFV too.

You have to make the game fun for millions of people, not just thousands of people.
 
Dahbomb said:
I used to believe this myself. Until I started learning more about game design and how developers tend to balance their games. And more importantly what differentiates successful multiplayer games from unsuccessful ones.

You can't always balance for the highest level of skill. If you do then there is bound to be an easy to utilize noob killer strategy that makes it unfun for players at the lower end of the spectrum. And it has been done in SF4 as well, will probably happen in SFV too.

You have to make the game fun for millions of people, not just thousands of people.
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This is what kinda killed SC2. They made that shit for pros and the game withered.
 
Shun said:
I guess you like our players then.

Hanzuki is great.
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Some of them are ok, some teams need a better teamwork lol.

This WZTV player tries to play smarter, better. But missing all those csA shots lol, so in the end just loses out to the more aggressive and easier spam from Norn and Dreadnaught. Lost so much health to just getting hit by stuff mid air.
 
Dahbomb said:
I used to believe this myself. Until I started learning more about game design and how developers tend to balance their games. And more importantly what differentiates successful multiplayer games from unsuccessful ones.

You can't always balance for the highest level of skill. If you do then there is bound to be an easy to utilize noob killer strategy that makes it unfun for players at the lower end of the spectrum. And it has been done in SF4 as well, will probably happen in SFV too.

You have to make the game fun for millions of people, not just thousands of people.
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Yup. It's an eyeopener once you see the implications of the mass casuals - balancing for both is a necessity.
 
I mean Nash's buttons are good obviously but he has bad walkspeed. Similar to Sagat in SF4 who had monstrous buttons but if you dont have the walkspeed to complement those buttons the character will struggle in the mid range.

I think once people get their neutral fleshed out a bit you'll see Nash struggle a lot more.
 
Line_HTX said:
This has to be a slap in the face. To be ranked below Naruto of all things...

Should've had some kind of arcade presence, but then I think about what Harada says about arcade operators and being beholden to them for as long as possible... It's a dilemma on revenue and console release.

=/
Click to expand...

Its not really.

CC2 Naruto games ain't exactly known for being great games purely on their mechanics, but being great at helping people relive their favorite battles and events in far better fidelity than the anime and manga could. Those games could be a lot worse than they are mechanically, but as long as they nail the presentation and content the sales will continue to be strong. Same goes with Budokai series DBZ games and burst limit might be considered "better" games than the tenkaichi budokai games, but the majority just cares about the Number of characters and transformations and the fact that the battles closely resemble the action they saw in the anime and manga.
 
The Naruto games are basically playable versions of a better told anime.

I'd play them now if I cared about the story that much. The gameplay is fluff but the rest is solid
 
CC2 Naruto games ain't exactly known for being great games purely on their mechanics, but being great at helping people relive their favorite battles and events in far better fidelity than the anime and manga could.
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So much truth.

tumblr_mcdtwdZQUE1qk87r6o1_500.gif


2jcwqvb.gif
 
Dahbomb said:
I used to believe this myself. Until I started learning more about game design and how developers tend to balance their games. And more importantly what differentiates successful multiplayer games from unsuccessful ones.

You can't always balance for the highest level of skill. If you do then there is bound to be an easy to utilize noob killer strategy that makes it unfun for players at the lower end of the spectrum. And it has been done in SF4 as well, will probably happen in SFV too.

You have to make the game fun for millions of people, not just thousands of people.
Click to expand...
I don't necessarily disagree with multiplayer games of a demanding genre needing a lower barrier of entry (without sacrificing overall depth) to help entice newcomers, but targeting any given character over others because that one happens to excel a little bit in an environment of ignorance (which again could be caused due to multiple different reasons not tied to gameplay whatsoever) is nothing more than a short-sighted band-aid solution which'll eventually repeat itself elsewhere.

There's better ways to assist players who aren't particularly skilled yet by providing intuitive methods that help them learn the ropes and it's this where the majority of fighting games typically fall flat on their face. Street Fighter V offers some of these through improved visual clarity and slightly altering input leniency for combos, but it still didn't follow this through with this concept far enough. The Street Fighter YouTube page provides detailed character guides evaluating strengths + weaknesses + strategies; why aren't these available inside the game? Same can be said about the concise character introductions. There's an actual tutorial now... except it contains virtually no substance. Why are frame data and basic information regarding move properties still omitted, potential money-grubbing business practice to sell the guide notwithstanding? The list goes on and on.

League of Legends, another game with a steep learning curve in a different way regardless of its balance being in a constant state of flux, faced similar fundamental problems at varying skill levels. More knowledgeable players in the same Ranked divisions (or not) could leverage key mechanical advantages far easier, but these weren't gradually removed or toned down. Controlling the jungle camps was hugely influential, so they added built-in timers so anyone could consult them rather than relying on memorization. Recognizing income discrepancies between both teams was crucial, so they implemented gold counters. Ward coverage is vital to asserting map control, so they created new items to streamline this process (and to provide more counter-play options) on top of adding visual markers visible to all as they expire. DOTA 2 took this one step further with specialized tutorials and coaching tools.

There's more between both titles, but you get the gist of it and that's the type of 'concession' that fighting game developers ought to be more mindful of to expand their demographic.
 
Crab Milk Mickey said:
I'm aware, hence why I brought up user-interface examples instead.
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All those tutorials, videos, interface changes are of course necessary for fighting games. The genre is still playing catch up. However, even when they get all those things in a fighting games... they will still be balancing towards the lower end of the spectrum. In fact, the more people play the games the more likely they are to balance towards that spectrum.

And of course I don't mean completely gutting a character/strategy because it stomps noobs. A good designer figures out a change that impacts low level play but has almost no impact at the highest level and vice versa.
 
VariantX said:
Its not really.

CC2 Naruto games ain't exactly known for being great games purely on their mechanics, but being great at helping people relive their favorite battles and events in far better fidelity than the anime and manga could. Those games could be a lot worse than they are mechanically, but as long as they nail the presentation and content the sales will continue to be strong. Same goes with Budokai series DBZ games and burst limit might be considered "better" games than the tenkaichi budokai games, but the majority just cares about the Number of characters and transformations and the fact that the battles closely resemble the action they saw in the anime and manga.
Click to expand...

I understand reliving the battles, especially if there's a twist to them, like how Xenoverse does it. I think that was the first DBZ game where I liked almost everything about it.

Well... except for the stupid RNG in quests where it doesn't give you what you need despite clearing the conditions.
 
Mr Naps is playing at FGTV and beating everybody up minus Champ himself. Took me a little while to figure out it was even him. SFV has KOF and 3S qualities so it's good to see players from those games playing it.
 
Angry Poongko didn't help him this time, he took his belt off that belt too. But Neo's Chun looked solid. Stuffed EX Cannon with Ex spinning bird it multiple times during the match. He also landed B.HP against ex cannon strike back to back in that last round.

MadKOF has a pretty slick Rashid. I always felt I should put some time to check out what he can do but I haven't gotten around to it.
 
So in regards to Korea tournament it seems like

Infiltration is gosu.

while

Poongko is gochu.

that is korea street 5 ranking you hear it here first.

Astarte please confirm korean.
 
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