Necessary to put out the Kryptonian flames from Doomsday's beam vision. I'm joking. Maybe.
Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
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Necessary to put out the Kryptonian flames from Doomsday's beam vision. I'm joking. Maybe.
DerZuhälter
Member
It's not a good movie. Divisive at best if you like action and don't care about the Superman and Batman interpretation you know and care about.
I actually don't know if I rate it higher or lower than MoS, because that was a huge disappointment to me. This is not so much a disappointment but a continuation of bad choices made for Superman's direction, moral compass or lack thereof.
First thing first.
Since we are in the spoiler thread I guess everyone seen it or doesn't care about major plot details. I'm not going to talk about non-sensical parts of the plot, or Supermans utter incompetence, because I've already accepted that shit.
The movie starts off, with Bruce parents getting killed and I knew right then "I'm not going to like this Batman." Thomas Wayne gets shot right before he was about to throw a punch at the mugger. Not trying to give his money, of which he has a bunch of, no he tries to defend himself and gets him and his wife killed and utters his final words to Bruce: "Martha..."
Great. I hate you Snyder. Like seriously.
Bruce is wreckless, gives no shit about him, civilians, right or wrong, he just gets shit done. No moral compass. He's an angry Batman. An old Batman. He's seen some shit. Good guys turned bad, crime never stops it keeps spreading like weed. Doesn't seem like the philantropist Bale Wayne that tried to stop crime at it's roots.
He's more of blunt brute force Batman. Baleman seems like a fucking brain surgeon in contrast. That's why positive reviews describe him as badass and the best Batman ever. Well if that's your cup of tee, sure. Why not.
Superman on the other hand lacks such clear direction. You see him save some people here and there, but you get no real sense of what he is actually doing. Seems like he's doing this whole Superman thing part-time. Sometimes he just doesn't care and wants to bang Lois, sometimes he saves a few people from drowning. But for a movie that gets awfully political I expected that we would see how he handles war and petty crime, instead he is more of a faster firebrigade sans firetruck.
But Sack Zynder masterfully makes sure to capture him in glory shots doing these things. Emphazise the otherworldiness and divinity of space jesus. Angels, crosses, resurrection. It's all still there to drive the point home that this unfocussed angsty person has trouble connecting with humanity and finding his place. Kevin Costner even makes a comeback to tell him more ambivalent shit that doesn't offer clear direction. He would have needed Jor-El more, he had the right idea. Remember his trailer speech, the one that didn't make sense in the context of the Man of Steel movie.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time you will help them accomplish wonders"
Yeah. It's not really there, which is why the ending felt so unearned. Not to mention that it completely devalues the entire first act. He destroyed a city at the beginning of the movie and wrecked chaos in the end of the movie. Wait. Why did we have this big ol political first act, if in the end we take no real position to answer these questions. Congress got blown up .... and yeah, that's it. But he's dead anyway so let's talk about taxes or something.
I'm actually fuming, while writing this. And I haven't even written a bit about Michael Cera's nonsensical ass. He's bad. Like terrible. No redeeming qualities, not actingwise, not in terms of dialogues, monologues, motivation, smart ideas, villainous behavior, nothing. He felt like a goon from TV series that turns up once and disappears after 2 episodes. This is fucking Lex Luthor? Genius super villain? Utter disappointment.
Well, I guess I'll go to bed now. It's late, I gotta get up to work and this movie was exactly what I expected. Not worth it. It hurts me, because Batman and Superman are by far my favorite superheros, but I knew I had to watch it.
I actually don't know if I rate it higher or lower than MoS, because that was a huge disappointment to me. This is not so much a disappointment but a continuation of bad choices made for Superman's direction, moral compass or lack thereof.
First thing first.
Since we are in the spoiler thread I guess everyone seen it or doesn't care about major plot details. I'm not going to talk about non-sensical parts of the plot, or Supermans utter incompetence, because I've already accepted that shit.
The movie starts off, with Bruce parents getting killed and I knew right then "I'm not going to like this Batman." Thomas Wayne gets shot right before he was about to throw a punch at the mugger. Not trying to give his money, of which he has a bunch of, no he tries to defend himself and gets him and his wife killed and utters his final words to Bruce: "Martha..."
Great. I hate you Snyder. Like seriously.
Bruce is wreckless, gives no shit about him, civilians, right or wrong, he just gets shit done. No moral compass. He's an angry Batman. An old Batman. He's seen some shit. Good guys turned bad, crime never stops it keeps spreading like weed. Doesn't seem like the philantropist Bale Wayne that tried to stop crime at it's roots.
He's more of blunt brute force Batman. Baleman seems like a fucking brain surgeon in contrast. That's why positive reviews describe him as badass and the best Batman ever. Well if that's your cup of tee, sure. Why not.
Superman on the other hand lacks such clear direction. You see him save some people here and there, but you get no real sense of what he is actually doing. Seems like he's doing this whole Superman thing part-time. Sometimes he just doesn't care and wants to bang Lois, sometimes he saves a few people from drowning. But for a movie that gets awfully political I expected that we would see how he handles war and petty crime, instead he is more of a faster firebrigade sans firetruck.
But Sack Zynder masterfully makes sure to capture him in glory shots doing these things. Emphazise the otherworldiness and divinity of space jesus. Angels, crosses, resurrection. It's all still there to drive the point home that this unfocussed angsty person has trouble connecting with humanity and finding his place. Kevin Costner even makes a comeback to tell him more ambivalent shit that doesn't offer clear direction. He would have needed Jor-El more, he had the right idea. Remember his trailer speech, the one that didn't make sense in the context of the Man of Steel movie.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time you will help them accomplish wonders"
Yeah. It's not really there, which is why the ending felt so unearned. Not to mention that it completely devalues the entire first act. He destroyed a city at the beginning of the movie and wrecked chaos in the end of the movie. Wait. Why did we have this big ol political first act, if in the end we take no real position to answer these questions. Congress got blown up .... and yeah, that's it. But he's dead anyway so let's talk about taxes or something.
I'm actually fuming, while writing this. And I haven't even written a bit about Michael Cera's nonsensical ass. He's bad. Like terrible. No redeeming qualities, not actingwise, not in terms of dialogues, monologues, motivation, smart ideas, villainous behavior, nothing. He felt like a goon from TV series that turns up once and disappears after 2 episodes. This is fucking Lex Luthor? Genius super villain? Utter disappointment.
Well, I guess I'll go to bed now. It's late, I gotta get up to work and this movie was exactly what I expected. Not worth it. It hurts me, because Batman and Superman are by far my favorite superheros, but I knew I had to watch it.
Poodlestrike
Banned
There's also a Sharknado about halfway through the second act, Superman gets eaten by a Megalodon and rips his way out while singing America the Beautiful.
Piss is shown. Not his.
Roberto Larcos
Member
Just left the cinema, I really enjoyed it. Way darker than the Marvel films - I respect that the writers didn't feel the need to pad it with jokes (a la Star-Wars and Avengers, because it wouldn't have fit here. Score was excellent I think too.
Maybe worth noting that I've not seen all that many comic book films - and all of those but Avengers 2 were through TV / Netflix. I've also never read a comic from either universe in my life, so I'm not all that invested in or knowledgeable about any of the universes. Maybe that helped my enjoyment - reading just a bit of this thread seems to imply it.
Maybe worth noting that I've not seen all that many comic book films - and all of those but Avengers 2 were through TV / Netflix. I've also never read a comic from either universe in my life, so I'm not all that invested in or knowledgeable about any of the universes. Maybe that helped my enjoyment - reading just a bit of this thread seems to imply it.
I hope it could improve it like it did for Alien 3.
Just saw it.
I really liked it. Much, much more than Man of Steel, and a lot of the Marvel films. But granted I'm a huge DC fan.
A lot of the stuff didn't work, but the things that did were fucking awesome.
Some pacing/editing problems, none of them took me out of the movie though.
Biggest issue for me - Jessie Eisenberg as Lex Luthor Jr.
That wasn't Lex Luthor. Just a crazy, rich kid that for some reason has a problem with Superman. His motivations are still not clear to me.
The creation of Doomsday - bad, bad, bad.
Doomsday should not have been in this film.
Scoot Mcnairy did not work I think.
Death of Superman - still not sure how I feel about that.
Gal Gadot, except for one line delivery that didn't sit right with me, was awesome as Wonder Woman. Her fight scene was definitely a highlight.
Justice League members introduction was good.
Batman was great.
My favourite thing in the movie, and what I think is worth the ticket price alone, is the Knightmare scene and ESPECIALLY what follows it. I was in total shock.
I would defiantly recommend you to watch it in cinema.
I really liked it. Much, much more than Man of Steel, and a lot of the Marvel films. But granted I'm a huge DC fan.
A lot of the stuff didn't work, but the things that did were fucking awesome.
Some pacing/editing problems, none of them took me out of the movie though.
Biggest issue for me - Jessie Eisenberg as Lex Luthor Jr.
That wasn't Lex Luthor. Just a crazy, rich kid that for some reason has a problem with Superman. His motivations are still not clear to me.
The creation of Doomsday - bad, bad, bad.
Doomsday should not have been in this film.
Scoot Mcnairy did not work I think.
Death of Superman - still not sure how I feel about that.
Gal Gadot, except for one line delivery that didn't sit right with me, was awesome as Wonder Woman. Her fight scene was definitely a highlight.
Justice League members introduction was good.
Batman was great.
My favourite thing in the movie, and what I think is worth the ticket price alone, is the Knightmare scene and ESPECIALLY what follows it. I was in total shock.
I would defiantly recommend you to watch it in cinema.
Creating a weapon against superman.
Roberto Larcos
Member
That is one thing that struck me as out of place. He hates Gods, so he created a second one which he couldn't reason with. Unless the blood thing meant he could? I don't know...
I get that part, but what do you do when your monster has killed Superman? Like, I assume he just didn't think this through, but on the other hand he planned the whole ordeal for a long time.
NealMcCauley
Member
Go after the other metahumans, unroll the red carpet for Darkseid.
OK, you have a point. I have no idea.
greendomo's ghost
Member
This is so true. If they could just let him smile and be charming, he would be a great Superman. That promo video where he's talking to kids about who they prefer, you can see what a great Superman he could be, but I think he only smiles once in the whole film, the rest of the time he's grimacing or frowning.
Roberto Larcos
Member
I think the only logical conclusion is that Lex went absolutely batshit insane, and even he didn't know what he was going to do.
DerZuhälter
Member
If man can't kill a god, he'll create a devil.
You didn't think he risk losing the battle for Metropolis and Gotham's soul betting on a fist fight between Batman and Superman. No you need an ace in the hole. And his was Doomsday.
He didn't think beyond that point I guess. But that's because he's like a dog chasing cars, he wouldn't know what to do with them when he caught one. He's not a guy with a plan you know. Not a schemer.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Just let it rampage, I guess. Maybe eventually use some Kryptonite on it after the military asks you very very nicely.
I've always wondered what people who think a movie like this is "good" or "really good" are using as a barometer. Like, what books do they read? What music do they listen to? Taste is subjective, but I think it's formed around what you've been exposed to, how well you understood it and how developed your critical-thinking skills are.
And your age.
And your age.
DerZuhälter
Member
You're right, I didn't want to write about non-sensical stuff, like a millionaire not wanting to giveaway a wallet with a couple hundred bucks.
He's been controlled by Darkseid. Who knows, maybe he would kill it in person.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Even if that's the case that's awfully reductive for Lex's role as a villain, no? Just a henchman for Darkseid?
Is there any indication for that in the entire movie besides the little 'The bell has been rung' speech at the end?
How does that relate to Darkseid?
The drawing on the wall?
Glass Shark
Banned
That is literally exactly what happens. Supes whispers something about "Martha" and Batfleck goes nuts "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME???" and stops and then Lois comes in and says, "It's his mother's name." and they are bros.
It sounds stupid but it was actually one of the better parts of the movie for me.
NealMcCauley
Member
More like controlled or corrupted. Personally I think its a combo of that and insanity.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Why was Lois even there? Was she rushing to find where they were fighting and got there in the nick of time?
Fair, though I don't think it does the character justice IMO.
BronsonLee
Member
Aaaaaaabsolutely
Yes. The location was very obvious, and Lois knew because Lex told her. She got there right before Bat speared Supes with his kryptonite spear
When they show Luthor's home again at the end? There's the symbol somewhere? I must have missed that. If so, that is a part where the movie should have given a clearer indication.
DerZuhälter;199055366 said:
You say that like you know what was said in that scene, which was drowned out by music. Maybe Thomas didn't have his wallet, maybe he wanted to kidnap Bruce, maybe he wanted too love.
The point is you don't know. All we know is that he killed them. The why is 100% in your head.
Glass Shark
Banned
Precisely.
DerZuhälter
Member
I understood the quote as reference to the atomic explosion in space. Considering he asked the kryptonion ship for all its data (surely even he can't process all of it in such a timeframe) he might have some knowledge about other planets and/or Darkseid.
NealMcCauley
Member
I agree with you.
Snyder's not exactly known for understanding characters afterall.
Nor exactly. It's a close up of the demon and the camera pans up to a world on fire. Hell the symbol might actually be a border around the world. Thing is you won't notice it unless you're looking, maybe even seeing it in imax.
StoppedInTracks
Member
Can anyone point me to some plot synopsis with spoilers and all? It is not up on Wikipedia yet. I want a short summary of the whole movie - who dies and how it ends etc.
Please.
Please.
SporeCrawler
Member
Okay so I watched the movie and I think the critics are being too harsh with it. It has some flaws but overall i think it is a good movie and it was a great movie up until the iron batman vs. Superman fight. The "martha" thing was stupid and remains the biggest flaw of this movie. It just wasnt plausible that batman un that universe would just let superman go because he has a mother. also I think that the spoilerific trailer that revealed wonder woman and doomsday was one of the reasons why the movie tanked critically. With basically the whole movie revealed there was no element of surprise. I imagine that I would have been thrilled to see wonder woman against doomsday with that awesome music kicking in, had I jot beeen spoilered before.
I would say overall they succeeded in character depictikn though. Batman was obviously the best. I did not mind the depiction of batman as a ruthless brutal fighter (he says it himself, that he considers himself a criminal). Superman came of as. A goodie two shoes with too mich power. It is less a movie about him as a character but more about the concept of supermans power. Lex luthor was amazing as the actor played a very fresh version of it that had elements of the joker but also of loki. I also did not mind that we didnt get to know the motivations of lex luthor, the actor did a great job and the script was succesful in depictim him as a schemer with multiple back ups.
Overall Id give it a 7.5 without the marta thing it could have been a 9 in my opinion.
I would say overall they succeeded in character depictikn though. Batman was obviously the best. I did not mind the depiction of batman as a ruthless brutal fighter (he says it himself, that he considers himself a criminal). Superman came of as. A goodie two shoes with too mich power. It is less a movie about him as a character but more about the concept of supermans power. Lex luthor was amazing as the actor played a very fresh version of it that had elements of the joker but also of loki. I also did not mind that we didnt get to know the motivations of lex luthor, the actor did a great job and the script was succesful in depictim him as a schemer with multiple back ups.
Overall Id give it a 7.5 without the marta thing it could have been a 9 in my opinion.
So I just got out of the cinema. I liked the movie, maybe Snyder's best (take that as you wish), and I really can't understand all the criticism around it. Yes, some things are a bit weird, and pacing is inconsistent in the first half, but it's a good movie. It would probably be better if it didn't try to establish so many things of the DCU. I'm watching it again tomorrow, I guess I'll have a clearer impression by then.
Lex was great, maybe one of my favorite things from the movie. Wonder Woman kicks ass with the little screentime she has, and Ben is great. Cavill does a good job considering his character is still looking for his place in the world.
Also, I didin't mind Batman going full beast mode and not giving a damn about killing. It fits how the character is portrayed here.
Lex was great, maybe one of my favorite things from the movie. Wonder Woman kicks ass with the little screentime she has, and Ben is great. Cavill does a good job considering his character is still looking for his place in the world.
Also, I didin't mind Batman going full beast mode and not giving a damn about killing. It fits how the character is portrayed here.
freethoughtbubble
Member
Same. Have a friend who's an awesome guy, and smart, but who really likes White Chicks. And the Star Wars prequels. And the new Ninja Turtles flick, Dumb and Dumberer To, and the Hobbit trilogy. I don't know if he dislikes any movie.
I've concluded that some folks enjoy movies the same way I listen to pop music: half paying attention, perking up for the good bits and ignoring the rest. And not really caring all the while.
The flash got caught on camera, I guess he wasn't that fast? and aquaman gave his best modeling pose before he destroyed something but the camera
Wonder woman back to her apartment, then take a bath, a bath not a shower and then she was on airplane.
Really weird, but then again I don't read comic books. So I don't know if it's a thing or not.
Wonder woman back to her apartment, then take a bath, a bath not a shower and then she was on airplane.
Really weird, but then again I don't read comic books. So I don't know if it's a thing or not.
I loved the "Martha" part. It's maybe my favorite part of the whole movie. It's horribly written, generally nonsensical but it hits both the characters in a really visceral way and a stroke of genius to link the two (has it been done in the books?). On paper it's awful, but the acting and Bruce and Clark's history with their parents sold it.
The acting? Really? Cavill was terrible in that scene.
Just saw it and I'm a little split. There were some great scenes but overall the story just felt too convoluted for me. Then there were also some really unelegant scenes like the way all the other superheroes were introduced. That felt almost like a videogame "select your character" screen.
Yeah, didn't like that at all. It felt like the whole conflict could have been solved if Superman had spent a little more time trying to talk with Batman.
Initially I thought he might be able to control Doomsday because he was created with his blood, but apparently was he about to smash him to a pulp if Superman had not intervened.
He was Kryptonite fucked and his mother was about to die, seemed pretty good to me.
Some of those movies aren't bad? TMNT was fun, the first two Hobbit movies weren't bad. White Chicks is fucking offensive.
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