Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son

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1: The death scene was really half-assed in DoJ, but just assume it's because he was a child.
3: He's the god damn Batman.
4/5: People were in shock. It's kind of the bystander effect--nobody does anything because nobody else is doing anything.
7: This part makes little sense. They couldn't even come up with a clever place to describe where it was; "Somewhere in the Indian Ocean"? Seriously?
8/9: Jenny is the film version of Jimmy because diversity.
10/11/12: The whole Africa sequence is so they can start building a case to frame Superman and coax him into a Senate hearing where they can then blow up the Senate committee. The guy who finds the tracker is that Russian that Lex employs who keeps outsmarting Batman.
17: He wanted to get access to the Crash Site and get his chunk of Kryptonite approved for import. A better question is why he didn't just immediately smuggle the Kryptonite in and try and bribe his way to get access to the Crash Site.
18: This is quite literally explained throughout the movie. Lex is egomaniacal, and hates the fact that he has all the knowledge in the world but an alien by virtue of being born on another world is more powerful than he could ever hope to be.
25/26: The assumption is that she wanted to know what Lex had on her, and kind of fell down the rabbithole of finding out about other Metahumans.
27/28: Celebrity Cameos. What is Anderson Cooper doing in there!?
29: It's apparently a reference to a DC storyline where Superman becomes a dictator and Batman leads a rogue group of heroes to resist him (Injustice I think?)
30: This question is answer in such an on-the-nose way even the writer got it. This probably could have been a mid-credit scene or something.
31: As I said above, reference to a storyline they want to implement where Superman is tricked into killing Lois and goes nuts.
32: Death in the Family reference/Easter Egg.
33/34/35: Because Batman knew he might not be able to follow it, so he wanted redundancy, and just because Lex is behind it all doesn't mean it's going to Lexcorp.
39: This was literally the plot of the movie. Batman became increasingly displeased with Superman's presence, and Superman (Clark Kent talks about it all the time) becomes displeased with the escalation of Batman's tactics (the branding).
40: It's never stated that he was intercepting the checks, just that he was pulling the strings. In fact, Lex hadn't even met with Wallace until halfway through the film when he saw the news report of him defacing the Heroes Monument.
41: He wanted to turn public opinion against Superman to back him into a corner mentally.
43: He wanted them to fight each other and hopefully kill one another, or at least limit the number of powerful people that opposed him. As I said above he's ego-maniacal and hates anyone that could be seen as more powerful than himself.
44/45: Everything involving these characters should have been a post-move scene, but I imagine the branding is a chicken and egg scenario--maybe they chose that representation because WW shows them the files she/Bat had on them.
46: Varies based on storyline I believe. In this apparently her people weren't in touch with the Atlantians--or she was just surprised to see him pop up on there.
47: Probably will be addressed later on, but I imagine it's Alien Artifact X.
49: If you were paying attention he tried to but Batman kept luring him into traps and trying to kill him. Then he deployed the Kryptonite Gas and Superman was busy surviving.
52: She wanted to get rid of it because she's not psychic and didn't know a Kryptonian-based Doomsday was about to show up.
53: It was to humanize Superman in Batman's eyes. His own mother was named Martha and he figured Superman had no real attachments in the human world.
55: They tracked the Russian's phone. Batman had earlier synced it to his own at the underground fighting event.
56: He's better at saving people and Batman probably figured it was smarter to send the Kryptonian to a crashed Kryptonian Ship going nuts than dive right in himself.
57: He literally says "Entering Drone Mode".
60: Because Superman starts fighting him once he comes to. The AI in the ship warned Lex using the Genesis Chamber on Kryptonians had "unstable" results. Doomsday showed up and went crazy and then Superman and Batman (and eventually WW) started attacking him.
61: Batman stole his Kryptonite.
62: Doomsday is Zod mixed with foreign DNA from the Genesis Chamber, the result is a Kryptonian monster that absorbs energy the same way Superman\Zod did with Sunlight. Hence why the nuke supercharges him.
64: Yes it did, but for some reason he stayed in low orbit while Doomsday fell back to Earth. That part makes literally no sense.
65/66: He needed the Spear, but I also believe he said the port was abandoned as in it was never used, not that everyone was off work.
67: The superheroes were a bit busy with the super destructive hellmonster shooting lasers and shit.
68: He was the first one to realize it was a Kryptonian-based lifeform and went to rescue Lois so he was in immediate proximity of the spear. Also, it was part of the whole "this is my problem" thing he was going on about.
70: I found this funny. I guess they could have just said he died at Lexcorp for some reason.
71/72/73: It's an allusion at best. I think it's more like Lex sees Superman as Pandora's Box. When he showed up on Earth he brought the Cosmos to them, and other lifeforms throughout the Universe will be coming to challenge him.

I'm not sure if this article is trying to answer questions for people or confuse them more after number 60, because the questions start becoming rhetorical. A lot of them are silly anyway--hence why I skipped answering them.
 
That longer shot of Superman standing in the fire emoting after the court explosion had me picturing somebody charred on the floor like "hel... Superma... I'm still... alive... plea..."

*flies away*
 
Yea the very beginning was quite good. I thought maybe we all got majorly trolled
I agree. The opening Metropolis scene and the murder of Bruce's parents were very well done. It was truly terrifying seeing the Black Zero event from a bystander's perspective. It felt surreal actually.
 
The audience at the showing I went to straight up laughed when the Senator saw the jar of piss/peach tea. The movie tried for ominous or threatening during that scene, but it had a different effect for peeps watching with me.

Was it the same for everyone else?

In a way I feel that it's actually kind of more effective that way, in a morbid tonal whiplash sense. Make 'em laugh, then boom, go out for blood.

Had a whole lot of chuckles throughout the film in places where it shouldn't have been funny. The jar of piss, awkward pans to Superman's face, and Lex at the end going 'ding ding ding' were the ones I remembered.

There was a lot more exasperated sighs and throwing up of hands than anything.
 
It's apparent from Batman v Superman that Zack Snyder loves Batman, hates Superman, and doesn't understand either character.

The Superman in the DC Cinematic Universe is an awful interpretation of the character.

Superman in this movie is a symbol of hope so potent that it turns around a Batman who's gone way, way over the edge. He suffers from doubt and uncertainty, but he overcomes it, and makes the ultimate sacrifice.

Snyder (and/or Terrio) gets it.
 
Watched it today. This movie is just a mess. It really felt like three movies crammed in to one.

I'm on mobile but a few issues...

I'm almost certain Batman murdered people with the Batmobile and Bat plane.

Lex Luther was just all over the place. The performance, motivation, everything really went sideways.

So much going on that nothing really had time to develop.

And the biggest issue for me...We didn't get to see Batman suit up! Come on!

On the positive side....

Wonder Woman was great.
 
It's apparent from Batman v Superman that Zack Snyder loves Batman, hates Superman, and doesn't understand either character.

Superman in the DC Cinematic Universe is an awful interpretation of the character.

I don't think he understands Batman, either.

Let's be honest here. Snyder is not well suited for this.
 
Judging by how efficiently Batman was throwing guys through walls and floors, I just assumed everywhere just had very lax building codes.

Not surprising given how quickly they rebuilt the city after MoS.

"Guys, we've got a deadline to meet. Just throw up some balsa wood and we'll call it good."
 
To kind of go along with my previous post of how Batman v Superman is based in fear and paranoia, it reminded me of a Atop the Fourth Wall Review I saw.

For those that don't know, AT4W is a show run by Linkara kind of like Nostalgia Critic, but he reviews comic books. Now, he's reviewed other comic books, including Frank Miller Batman comics, but here is where he goes all out against the guy and his writing idealogy. Given how much of BvS is based on Frank's work, I think this rant really exemplifies what I find so nasty about this story. This is more directed toward Frank's Islamophobia, which really isn't present in BvS, but the idolization of fear and cruelty is certainly there.

https://youtu.be/iAty4uerJUI?t=1463
 
Superman still is the worst part of DC's Cinematic Universe. I hope they use Justice League as an opportunity to do a soft reboot on the character.

I fully expect Superman to remain dead for most of the film. Gives the Justice League time to demonstrate their powers and worth. Also allows for a climactic resurrection where Supes gets to crush the villain in the final scenes.
 
Superman in this movie is a symbol of hope so potent that it turns around a Batman who's gone way, way over the edge. He suffers from doubt and uncertainty, but he overcomes it, and makes the ultimate sacrifice.

Snyder (and/or Terrio) gets it.

I know you liked the movie, and opinions are just that, but MAN, do I disagree on this one.

I've never seen a more hopeless, lost, confidence-deprived, aimless, cynical, dark, dour interpretation of Superman. It was less "day vs night" and more "late evening vs. night".
 
To kind of go along with my previous post of how Batman v Superman is based in fear and paranoia, it reminded me of a Atop the Fourth Wall Review I saw.

For those that don't know, AT4W is a show run by Linkara kind of like Nostalgia Critic, but he reviews comic books. Now, he's reviewed other comic books, including Frank Miller Batman comics, but here is where he goes all out against the guy and his writing idealogy. Given how much of BvS is based on Frank's work, I think this rant really exemplifies what I find so nasty about this story. This is more directed toward Frank's Islamophobia, which really isn't present in BvS, but the idolization of fear and cruelty is certainly there.

https://youtu.be/iAty4uerJUI?t=1463

Again, this is missing the point of the damn movie. BvS is a refutation of Frank Miller's work, not a celebration of it.

I know you liked the movie, and opinions are just that, but MAN, do I disagree on this one.

I've never seen a more hopeless, lost, confidence-deprived, aimless, cynical, dark, dour interpretation of Superman. It was less "day vs night" and more "late evening vs. night".

He spends a lot of time down, yeah. But then he comes back. He comes back, and he's determined, he's going to save everyone. Lois, his mom, the Batman.

And then he willingly sacrifices himself for a people he wasn't even sure he was qualified to help! I mean, c'mon!
 
I agree. The opening Metropolis scene and the murder of Bruce's parents were very well done. It was truly terrifying seeing the Black Zero event from a bystander's perspective. It felt surreal actually.

Yea I was really impressed by the staging, scale and immediacy of it. Unfortunately the editing problems begin immediately after with the cut to Lois in Africa. I mean WTF
 
To kind of go along with my previous post of how Batman v Superman is based in fear and paranoia, it reminded me of a Atop the Fourth Wall Review I saw.

For those that don't know, AT4W is a show run by Linkara kind of like Nostalgia Critic, but he reviews comic books. Now, he's reviewed other comic books, including Frank Miller Batman comics, but here is where he goes all out against the guy and his writing idealogy. Given how much of BvS is based on Frank's work, I think this rant really exemplifies what I find so nasty about this story. This is more directed toward Frank's Islamophobia, which really isn't present in BvS, but the idolization of fear and cruelty is certainly there.

https://youtu.be/iAty4uerJUI?t=1463

Well, BvS is supposed to be based off The Dark Knight Returns, aka a book Frank wrote BEFORE Sin City, and where his writing style/ideology changed.
 
Superman in this movie is a symbol of hope so potent that it turns around a Batman who's gone way, way over the edge. He suffers from doubt and uncertainty, but he overcomes it, and makes the ultimate sacrifice.

Snyder (and/or Terrio) gets it.

lol what turns around batman is a stroke of chance - their mothers have the same first name.

Superman had nothing to do with Bat's turn.
 
lol what turns around batman is a stroke of chance - their mothers have the same first name.

Superman had nothing to do with Bat's turn.

Sure it does. Superman, at what looks like the very end of his life, has no thought for himself; he begs Batman to save his mother. That this plea gets through at all is because of the coincidence, yeah, but the reason he made it is because he really is the hero we want him to be.
 
Again, this is missing the point of the damn movie. BvS is a refutation of Frank Miller's work, not a celebration of it.

I disagree. It supposedly rejects it after superman is already dead, sure, but I don't think that makes up for the fact that 95% of the movie is driven by this fear and paranoia. That it rejects it at the end is pretty weak, especially when Batman's regret only extends to Superman alone because they share his mother's name. He has no problems cruelly brutalizing other criminals that he dehumanized.

And lets not forget, even at the end, Batman proposes the Justice League out of fear. He doesn't want to unite them because they can accomplish more good that way, or wants to reach out to them as a gesture of good will. Lex warned him of an oncoming threat.

Even at the end, his movements are motivated by his fear.

Edit: and really, even if you argue that this one part of his ideology is refuted, his work, TDKR, is pretty celebrated throughout most of the film. His beefchunk batman is the look they decided to emulate, like 80% of the plotpoints are lifted from it, etc.

Well, BvS is supposed to be based off The Dark Knight Returns, aka a book Frank wrote BEFORE Sin City, and where his writing style/ideology changed.

I know, but I just find that the elements mentioned in the video still ring too too in BvS.
 
Sure it does. Superman, at what looks like the very end of his life, has no thought for himself; he begs Batman to save his mother. That this plea gets through at all is because of the coincidence, yeah, but the reason he made it is because he really is the hero we want him to be.
That was pretty jarring to me.
 
Sure it does. Superman, at what looks like the very end of his life, has no thought for himself; he begs Batman to save his mother. That this plea gets through at all is because of the coincidence, yeah, but the reason he made it is because he really is the hero we want him to be.

How is that a symbol of hope? You literally described a guy seeped in despair.
 
I still don't know how Batman, who had been doing this for 20 years, couldn't figure out Clark Kent was Superman but Lois Lane did in like a day.
 
And then he willingly sacrifices himself for a people he wasn't even sure he was qualified to help! I mean, c'mon!
Yeah, at the end of the film, basically.

It's like saying that Squall in Final Fantasy 8 is a pretty happy guy because in the credits he's smiling and happy and has the love of his life with him and he totally isn't the emo, depressed guy he was before...

... But he spends the vast majority of that game as an emo, depressed, angsty guy, so him "learning his lesson" by the end of the adventure doesn't mean he's going to be known as a shining example of joy and hope and happiness. He had an arc too, but he was pretty well defined by his grumpy phase.
 
I still don't know how Batman, who had been doing this for 20 years, couldn't figure out Clark Kent was Superman but Lois Lane did in like a day.

I don't think Batman cared about who Superman was. He just wanted to stop him. Getting closer to him could've meant the other way around.
 
I disagree. It supposedly rejects it after superman is already dead, sure, but I don't think that makes up for the fact that 95% of the movie is driven by this fear and paranoia. That it rejects it at the end is pretty weak, especially when Batman's regret only extends to Superman alone because they share his mother's name. He has no problems cruelly brutalizing other criminals that he dehumanized.

And lets not forget, even at the end, Batman proposes the Justice League out of fear. He doesn't want to unite them because they can accomplish more good that way, or wants to reach out to them as a gesture of good will. Lex warned him of an oncoming threat.

Even at the end, his movements are motivated by his fear.

Batman's regret extends further; he doesn't brand Lex. And it's not as simple as "their mothers have the same name." It's the idea that Superman might have a mother, might be afraid for her, might experience the same things he did. He hadn't though of the world in terms of anything but victims and bullies for a while, with himself as just another criminal.

The movie is driven by its characters' fear and paranoia, and the whole point of it is that it's wrong. That Batman's actions and beliefs are misplaced at best. That Clark's fears of doing more harm than good are unfounded, because even his unpowered father's actions had consequences, because that's life, and you just have to do what you can.

And you can spin his last actions as a desire to protect rather than acting purely out of fear.

That was pretty jarring to me.

It was pretty jarring to Batman too. Here's this alien monster, under his heel, saying something about his mother? What?
 
I still don't know how Batman, who had been doing this for 20 years, couldn't figure out Clark Kent was Superman but Lois Lane did in like a day.

He's shown to be a pretty awful "world's greatest detective."

Considering he is manipulated with ease by luthor and he gets caught both times he tries to spy at Lex's place.
 
He's shown to be a pretty awful "world's greatest detective."

Considering he is manipulated with ease by luthor and he gets caught both times he tries to spy at Lex's place.

I really haven't seen "the world's greatest detective" on the big screen since Batman: Mask of the Phantasm.

All the other versions have someone else basically doing all the detective legwork while he just punches guys. This version has easily the most physically capable Batman we've seen yet, but he's still pretty big on the brawn-over-brain and easily gets stupefied in this film.
 
How is that a symbol of hope? You literally described a guy seeped in despair.

Yeah, at the end of the film, basically.

It's like saying that Squall in Final Fantasy 8 is a pretty happy guy because in the credits he's smiling and happy and has the love of his life with him and he totally isn't the emo, depressed guy he was before...

... But he spends the vast majority of that game as an emo, depressed, angsty guy, so him "learning his lesson" by the end of the adventure doesn't mean he's going to be known as a shining example of joy and hope and happiness. He had an arc too, but he was pretty well defined by his grumpy phase.

That's... okay, let's try to explain it this way.

Superman having a hard time of things doesn't take away from his message, his heroism. You can be a powerful force for good despite not living a charmed life. That's what his whole arc in the movie is about, coming to grips with the fact that he's not perfect, but he should still be a hero anyway. Overcoming hardship and fear and doubt, rather than succumbing to it.
 
That's... okay, let's try to explain it this way.

Superman having a hard time of things doesn't take away from his message, his heroism. You can be a powerful force for good despite not living a charmed life. That's what his whole arc in the movie is about, coming to grips with the fact that he's not perfect, but he should still be a hero anyway. Overcoming hardship and fear and doubt, rather than succumbing to it.
It was Lex's quote about God not being able to be good and all-powerful at the same time that finally made it sink in. Lex's best scene I think. But then he just plans on Doomsday assisted suicide. OK.
 
Batman's regret extends further; he doesn't brand Lex. And it's not as simple as "their mothers have the same name." It's the idea that Superman might have a mother, might be afraid for her, might experience the same things he did. He hadn't though of the world in terms of anything but victims and bullies for a while, with himself as just another criminal.

The movie is driven by its characters' fear and paranoia, and the whole point of it is that it's wrong. That Batman's actions and beliefs are misplaced at best. That Clark's fears of doing more harm than good are unfounded, because even his unpowered father's actions had consequences, because that's life, and you just have to do what you can.

Again, I am not really convinced of that when it's only Superman that is the recipient of that. He brutalized the thugs after the Superman fight like usual, and they even made a special point of having Batman willingly murder the guy with the flamethrower for being a threat. He's a batman who dehumanizes the people he deems criminals, and that Superman became the exception through the coincidence of having mothers named the same name doesn't change that. I'd be amazed if he was the first one who ever cried out for his mother when facing him down, and how many weren't lucky enough to have a mother named martha so that they could break through the wall of empathy to him?

I agree that they 'refuted' that in a limp, weak way at the end, realizing wow, superman was a hero all along. But it's not enough. It's a movie that oozes the celebration of fear and terror in 95% of it's facets, and it's turn around at the end is unconvincing.

And you can spin his last actions as a desire to protect rather than acting purely out of fear.

You say that as if those are mutually exclusive. Even before Batman's.....character development, lets say, I never doubted that he's atleast partially killing and crippling out of a desire to obstensively help his city. Of course he wants to protect, and he fears his enemy enough to go back to doing the same thing he did at the start of the movie: fearing the next superpower.

He's still afraid, and he's still gathering the largest arsenal he can find to murder the next threat, whatever it's going to be.
 
That's... okay, let's try to explain it this way.

Superman having a hard time of things doesn't take away from his message, his heroism. You can be a powerful force for good despite not living a charmed life. That's what his whole arc in the movie is about, coming to grips with the fact that he's not perfect, but he should still be a hero anyway. Overcoming hardship and fear and doubt, rather than succumbing to it.

all this sounds like you're trying to overthink what was, in truth, a really shallow explanation for batman's heel turn. Why should Superman having a mother change batman's opinion? His entire motivation is based on what he observed - superman demonstrating collateral damage and exterting power that could crush humanity. So he has a mother, who cares? Every villain in history has had someone close to them.

Hell, in their final battle, Superman demonstrates how easy it is to corrupt him by using human means - he was ready to go murder batman to save his mom's life. How is that heroic or noble or in any way not in line with batman's thought process that 'this guy could be dangerous."

You know what is scarier than the thought of an omnipotent god controlling our planet? Some omnipotent human controlling our planet.
 
I really haven't seen "the world's greatest detective" on the big screen since Batman: Mask of the Phantasm.

All the other versions have someone else basically doing all the detective legwork while he just punches guys. This version has easily the most physically capable Batman we've seen yet, but he's still pretty big on the brawn-over-brain and easily gets stupefied in this film.

Batman's a great fighter, but his key asset has always been his sharp mind, which he had none of in this movie. And really, it seems like he hasn't had any of in his 20 years of being Batman.
 
Again, this is missing the point of the damn movie. BvS is a refutation of Frank Miller's work, not a celebration of it.

You keep saying this but I don't understand why. It doesn't refute any of that, it pays homage to it constantly and reverentially. The only elements that that you could argue it refutes are ones the film itself added (like Bat-branding people).
 
I thought Eisenberg was all right as the Joker.

I was expecting to like this movie a lot more considering I enjoyed Man of Steel, and Zack usually nails the fighting, but the Knightmare sequence was really poor, and the Doomsday fight didn't have much weight to it.

It's jarring how bad the Knightmare sequence is considering how good the warehouse fight was with Batman. So many dudes awkwardly standing around and not shooting their weapons.

I still enjoyed it for the most part, but Snyder went overboard with his slow-mo again, and Lex's plot was all over the place.

Scoot McNairy was wasted too, Tao Okamoto for that matter as well.
 
all this sounds like you're trying to overthink what was, in truth, a really shallow explanation for batman's heel turn. Why should Superman having a mother change batman's opinion? His entire motivation is based on what he observed - superman demonstrating collateral damage and exterting power that could crush humanity. So he has a mother, who cares? Every villain in history has had someone close to them.

Hell, in their final battle, Superman demonstrates how easy it is to corrupt him by using human means - he was ready to go murder batman to save his mom's life. How is that heroic or noble or in any way not in line with batman's thought process that 'this guy could be dangerous."

He was unequivocally not ready to murder batman to save his mom's life. If he was the fight would have been over in the first 30 seconds. He spends the whole time trying to subdue Batman long enough to get him to help.

Batman had reduced Superman in his mind to a thing. A monster. That made him realize that he's not. Simple as that.

You keep saying this but I don't understand why. It doesn't refute any of that, it pays homage to it constantly and reverentially. The only elements that that you could argue it refutes are ones the film itself added (like Bat-branding people).

Men Are Still Good. Man says it himself. Superman realize it himself. Cynicism is not the way.
 
I really haven't seen "the world's greatest detective" on the big screen since Batman: Mask of the Phantasm.

All the other versions have someone else basically doing all the detective legwork while he just punches guys. This version has easily the most physically capable Batman we've seen yet, but he's still pretty big on the brawn-over-brain and easily gets stupefied in this film.

Batman had all day to prepare.

The only thing he had prepared was some stupid sound generator, some guns and a spear.

Batman should have lead Superman throughout that entire building, with traps he set up to slow Superman down. He shouldn't have had to struggle to reload his KryptoGasGun.
 
Batman's a great fighter, but his key asset has always been his sharp mind, which he had none of in this movie. And really, it seems like he hasn't had any of in his 20 years of being Batman.

I thought they did a great job showing off his key asset. Then again, I think his key asset is his money, so we might not be on the same page.

Seriously though, the movie basically skirted around that aspect of his character.
 
He was unequivocally not ready to murder batman to save his mom's life. If he was the fight would have been over in the first 30 seconds. He spends the whole time trying to subdue Batman long enough to get him to help.

As he flies away to fight batman he has already resolved that either he will reason with him or he will kill him. He spends 10 seconds trying to explain to batman what is going on before he is a-ok with using his super strength on a human.

He was totally going to kill batman if he had to, to save his mother.

Batman had reduced Superman in his mind to a thing. A monster. That made him realize that he's not. Simple as that.

Being human and being a monster are not mutually exclusive. How many human monsters do we have on this planet? That is why it's such a stupid, shallow turn - because it really doesn't quell any of his fears. It's convenient, and to make it worse, the movie immediately takes it to 11. Not only is he suddenly ok with the concept of an unstoppable, omnipotent creature patrolling the planet, he calls it his friend.
 
As he flies away to fight batman he has already resolved that either he will reason with him or he will kill him. He spends 10 seconds trying to explain to batman what is going on before he is a-ok with using his super strength on a human.

He was totally going to kill batman if he had to, to save his mother.

Then why didn't he do it when he first got his powers back? After the first dose of kryptonite had just about fully worn off?
 
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