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[Randomizer123454444]

Atheist checking in.

But if you really take athiesm to it's logical conclusion, what are you left with? If everything is mindless atoms bumping into each other, with no guiding hand, then by definition there is no purpose in anything, no 'meaning of life'

Wrong, I decide what my purpose is. My meaning of life is whatever I decide it to be. And I have found my purpose, my answer to question "why am I here".

The athiest also loses any concept of a fixed morality. If different cultures have different (or even opposing) moral values, why should I follow any of them? Why not just make up my own morality where I can do whatever I want? It would be no more or less authentic than any other.

Because my set of rules leads to long term prosperity and happiness of as many people as possible. It is the right thing to do for the society. The society you and me owe our lives to.

So is there any logical way out of this nihilistic mindset where a person is ultimately no more important than a pile of mud? Sure you can set your own goals (get a promotion, have kids, own a Porsche) but in a godless universe those goals are as meaningless as everything else. Your job, children and shiny car are as meaningless as you are and everything else is.

Have you ever had the feeling that you have solved life? That feeling that hits you like a flash of lightning? You have realized something, and you see the road ahead clearly. Everything clicked, and you know you will be OK because you know exactly what you must do.

I don't think you understand just how wonderful it is to be able to change our own behavior in a universe where everything can be calculated with math formulas. You are in control of your own body. Placebo- and nocebo-effects prove just how strongly. I am in control of my body. Me, nobody else. If I want to do something, I can. I just have to be prepared to pay the consequences. And because I am in control, I decide what my purpose is. I decide, not you, not society, not universe, not the so-called "god". Because I have the power to, because I am a living being in universe where what happens is supposed to be set in stone.

Also, this:

nothing but a howling chaos.

Don't use this an excuse for your own ignorance. If all you see is chaos then there is something wrong with your understanding.

 

[SturokBGD]

Other great apes show compassionate behaviours and I don't think orangutans believe in god

I think they believe Shigeru Miyamoto is the creator.

 

[Concept17]

I've been an athiest for as long as I've thought seriously about the topic of god and religion, which followed a childhood that was pretty much secular anyway. I then went on to do physics at university and have followed a mostly scientific career path. I'm about as secure in my athiesm as I can be, basically, and I very much doubt that will ever change.

But if you really take athiesm to it's logical conclusion, what are you left with? If everything is mindless atoms bumping into each other, with no guiding hand, then by definition there is no purpose in anything, no 'meaning of life', nothing but a howling chaos.

The athiest also loses any concept of a fixed morality. If different cultures have different (or even opposing) moral values, why should I follow any of them? Why not just make up my own morality where I can do whatever I want? It would be no more or less authentic than any other.

So is there any logical way out of this nihilistic mindset where a person is ultimately no more important than a pile of mud? Sure you can set your own goals (get a promotion, have kids, own a Porsche) but in a godless universe those goals are as meaningless as everything else. Your job, children and shiny car are as meaningless as you are and everything else is.

Umm...discuss.

And the bolded is what's wrong here. We don't fully understand most of the universe. We think we know a lot, but we are incredibly limited in what we can actually see compared to with what is out there. It's not our fault, we evolved to survive Earth, not space.

Not knowing, to me, is the meaning to life, because we're always learning more and more about the universe, and claiming to know everything and filling in the blanks with 'belief' is just trying to make yourself feel comfortable and safe, rather than facing the truth: that we don't yet know.

 

[Red Hood]

No offense, but atheism has to be one of the most stupid things out there.

Like, I can understand being agnostic, I totally do. There's no tangible proof of God, gods, spiritual deities or whatever, so saying something like "hey, I don't know man, I don't think so" is normal and logical. But actively saying there's nothing of a higher power at all, firmly convinced of that, and actively advocating against that is absolutely idiotic. How can something come from nothing? I'm not even talking about human evolution or the existence of the universe, we can all agree on those points, but where was the start? What was before the big bang? Okay, that we know, a lot of particles compressed and very close to each other, which resulted in the big bang. I also know that time - as we know it - came to be because of the big bang, and that before it, time - as we know it - didn't exist. But how did all those particles end up there? Where did they come from? Etc. etc. And I don't even expect a scientific answer, it's so long ago and we don't have the answers to it (yet), but it's the thought that counts. Everything has to have a start, theist people have their God or gods, but what do atheists have? "Yeah, well, we human beings cannot phantom that without a sense of time, so there was nothing before the big bang". Then how different is that from believing in "invisible" stuff you're very much against at?

Basically my point is that the main reason for atheism is also its downfall: logical common sense. Agnosticism on the other hand is something much more logical.

 

[Deleted member 125677]

Nihilism does not follow logically from atheism, a lot of famous atheist philosophers (most famously so Nietzsche), detested nihilism, and rightfully so.

Nihilism, according to Nietzsche, is the philosophy of the man of ressentiment, a corrupted slave morality, based on a suspicion, weariness and detestation of humanity, of only being able to say 'No!' to everything outside of and different from one self.

 

[Manu]

No offense, but atheism has to be one of the most stupid things out there.

Like, I can understand being agnostic, I totally do. There's no tangible proof of God, gods, spiritual deities or whatever, so saying something like "hey, I don't know man, I don't think so" is normal and logical. But actively saying there's nothing of a higher power at all, firmly convinced of that, and actively advocating against that is absolutely idiotic. How can something come from nothing? I'm not even talking about human evolution or the existence of the universe, we can all agree on those points, but where was the start? What was before the big bang? Okay, that we know, a lot of particles compressed and very close to each other, which resulted in the big bang. I also know that time - as we know it - came to be because of the big bang, and that before it, time - as we know it - didn't exist. But how did all those particles end up there? Where did they come from? Etc. etc. And I don't even expect a scientific answer, it's so long ago and we don't have the answers to it (yet), but it's the thought that counts. Everything has to have a start, theist people have their God or gods, but what do atheists have? "Yeah, well, we human beings cannot phantom that without a sense of time, so there was nothing before the big bang". Then how different is that from believing in "invisible" stuff you're very much against at?

Basically my point is that the main reason for atheism is also its downfall: logical common sense. Agnosticism on the other hand is something much more logical.

So, basically "I don't know, therefore God" is more logical than not believing.

Sure.

 

[Zaptruder]

"No objective morality" means that morality is something completely reliant on circumstances such as society, time, other circumstances (if we're talking about morality of any particular action or situation) and personality.

There might be a common perception but there's absolutely not a single thing that can be deemed objectively moral or immoral- you can state that you will always be against the death penalty and that you think it is immoral, but that does not mean it is objectively the right thing.

Common perception is something else IMO.

Using this post as a jumping point for my own post;

Morality basically boils down to - societally accepted rules of conduct. No society, no morality.

What does society accept as their rule of conduct? Really depends on what the average person is trying to optimize for. For most of time, people haven't really thought much about the why of the rules they follow - only that they're the rules that they should follow. This sort of thinking still pervades us now. There's a certain evolutionary pressure to moral rules... the ones that work to allow people to pass them on will survive, the ones that do not will die off. i.e. morality inculcating behaviour against disease vectors will survive more readily than morality that fails to do so. This provides at least some of the mechanism for understanding why morality is how it is today.

Once you figure out what it is your moral system is optimizing for, then we can in fact (at least in theory) solve for the problem.

e.g. My moral system is optimizing for freedoms (also you should define this thing you're optimizing for - but I won't for this example). Does this action increase overall freedom or reduce it? Given that we can't predict the future, which rule of thumbs are most useful in reliably improving freedoms, and under what circumstances are exceptions made?

Now... people all have their individual conception of morality (just as we all have different understanding of the world and how it functions, even if we try to keep it relatively similar) - of the societal rules of conduct. The actual system of morality that is practiced by society emerges out of the conflict and conversation of all those different individual conceptions.

Law is the lagging enforcement of broader social morality. If you conflate law with morality then your understanding of law and morality is poor and conflicting.

 

[Astral/H3X]

I'm on mobile so I won't go too into depth, but essentially my thinking on the matter leads me to feel that the very fact that we are just a bunch of atoms that are capable of coming to that conclusion (or really any other conclusion for that matter) is exactly what makes us so special -- for an accident to come into something so amazing, it sort of gives us an obligation to make the most of it that we can... Simply because we can at all.

 

[Red Hood]

So, basically "I don't know, therefore God" is more logical than not believing.

Sure.

No, you should read my post more carefully. "I don't know, therefore I can't say whether or not there's a God/gods/deities etc." is much more logical than "no there's no God etc., up yours".

 

[Blackthorn]

No offense, but atheism has to be one of the most stupid things out there.

Like, I can understand being agnostic, I totally do. There's no tangible proof of God, gods, spiritual deities or whatever, so saying something like "hey, I don't know man, I don't think so" is normal and logical. But actively saying there's nothing of a higher power at all, firmly convinced of that, and actively advocating against that is absolutely idiotic. How can something come from nothing? I'm not even talking about human evolution or the existence of the universe, we can all agree on those points, but where was the start? What was before the big bang? Okay, that we know, a lot of particles compressed and very close to each other, which resulted in the big bang. I also know that time - as we know it - came to be because of the big bang, and that before it, time - as we know it - didn't exist. But how did all those particles end up there? Where did they come from? Etc. etc. And I don't even expect a scientific answer, it's so long ago and we don't have the answers to it (yet), but it's the thought that counts. Everything has to have a start, theist people have their God or gods, but what do atheists have? "Yeah, well, we human beings cannot phantom that without a sense of time, so there was nothing before the big bang". Then how different is that from believing in "invisible" stuff you're very much against at?

Basically my point is that the main reason for atheism is also its downfall: logical common sense. Agnosticism on the other hand is something much more logical.

I'm ok with reaching the extent of my understanding and accepting that I don't know what's beyond. Filling that void with something for which there is no evidence at all doesn't make sense to me, even if it's interesting to speculate.

 

[Audette]

As an Athiest I really put off when other people claim that Athiests have some god or belief to worship in place of God. There is no Athiest God nor is there anything Athiests worship. If an Athiest begins a path of Nihilistic behaviour that's a choice or result of a poor moral compass. Not from lack of God but from real life issues like abuse, neglect, mental illness of just lack of understanding of Athiesm

The key to the Athiest beliefs are that you can't prove God. Without proof why should I put it upon myself to believe in something you can't prove exists. Nothing Else is controlled by being an Athiest.

All arguments and beliefs about how Athiests get there morals or how they feel about their lives is useless. So many Athiests become so through different means, making every single ones moral compass different. Everybody is of different walks of life, if a newly made Athiest need help with morals, you have to look to the society you trying to fit in with. Learn the rules of life from fitting in and trying to live your life well.

You don't know what else you have other than life. Death is "the undiscovered country". Why waste your life being a dick to people and making your life harder?
Just love to be a better person and add to the greater good of humanity/society.

I'm ok with reaching the extent of my understanding and accepting that I don't know what's beyond. Filling that void with something for which there is no evidence at all doesn't make sense to me, even if it's interesting to speculate.

Absolutely Agreed.

 

[Manu]

No, you should read my post more carefully. "I don't know, therefore I can't say whether or not there's a God/gods/deities etc." is much more logical than "no there's no God, up yours".

No it's not.

Believing in a deity requires faith, while not believing doesn't. Faith being a factor makes it inherently less "logical" than not believing.

 

[SturokBGD]

So, basically "I don't know, therefore God" is more logical than not believing.

That's not what he said.

 

[Chezzymann]

No offense, but atheism has to be one of the most stupid things out there.

Like, I can understand being agnostic, I totally do. There's no tangible proof of God, gods, spiritual deities or whatever, so saying something like "hey, I don't know man, I don't think so" is normal and logical. But actively saying there's nothing of a higher power at all, firmly convinced of that, and actively advocating against that is absolutely idiotic. How can something come from nothing? I'm not even talking about human evolution or the existence of the universe, we can all agree on those points, but where was the start? What was before the big bang? Okay, that we know, a lot of particles compressed and very close to each other, which resulted in the big bang. I also know that time - as we know it - came to be because of the big bang, and that before it, time - as we know it - didn't exist. But how did all those particles end up there? Where did they come from? Etc. etc. And I don't even expect a scientific answer, it's so long ago and we don't have the answers to it (yet), but it's the thought that counts. Everything has to have a start, theist people have their God or gods, but what do atheists have? "Yeah, well, we human beings cannot phantom that without a sense of time, so there was nothing before the big bang". Then how different is that from believing in "invisible" stuff you're very much against at?

Basically my point is that the main reason for atheism is also its downfall: logical common sense. Agnosticism on the other hand is something much more logical.

I think you're misrepresenting what atheism is. This is really how it works.

Most atheists operate under the belief that they don't think a god exists until they are given evidence of such. To me the majority don't think that its 100% certain that a god exists, just that its unlikely. The people that are 100% certain no god exists and constantly mock religious people for believing so are in my view a small minority of atheists, generally the type of crowd you'd find on /r/atheism.

 

[News Bot]

a lot of famous atheist philosophers (most famously so Nietzsche), detested nihilism, and rightfully so.

Nihilism, according to Nietzsche, is the philosophy of the man of ressentiment, a corrupted slave morality, based on a suspicion, weariness and detestation of humanity, of only being able to say 'No!' to everything outside of and different from one self.

There's nothing right about this.

 

[Noirulus]

Meaning is a human invention created to cope with the realization of inevitable death. There isn't anything more to it than that. You can choose to view that with pessimism, which seems to be the lens of the OP (no meaning = what's the point), or you can create your own meaning to justify your existence.

No it isn't, meaning gives us something to live for. I don't search for meaning because I'm scared of or trying to cope with the fact that I will eventually die. Even if I was immortal, I would need meaning in my life in order to live.

 

[CornBurrito]

No, you can PRETEND there is a meaning to your life. Not quite the same thing.



The point is that athiests can only be moral or immoral within whichever code of ethics they follow, and you only need to look through the history books to see how varied those different moralities can be. The most upstanding ancient Roman citizen would be in prison within hours if he acted like that in modern day Italy.



Sounds delightful, but that squirrel, the flower and your garden table are as meangingless as each other.

There being a god doesn't automatically mean there is a purpose. Not every god humans have believed in have given a shit about humans, or created them for a magical purpose.

Unless you think that one religion is literally true, humans still just created some meaning to life (servicing god, whatever).

And morality is an evolved trait. Religion also doesn't fix it changing or being arbitrary. In the US, most Christians don't want to murder gays In Uganda, Christians want to murder gays.

 

[ACE 1991]

I think where you've gone wrong is that just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean they don't have morals. My morals just aren't dictated by God. They're dictated by the values I was brought up with (didn't go to church/synagogue growing up), and my love for those around me. I firmly believe that this is all there is, so we should make the most of it by being kind and just with one another. I don't believe there's a heaven after we die, so we need to do all we can to create harmony here on Earth.

This is missing OP's point.

 

[Trumpets]

And the bolded is what's wrong here. We don't fully understand most of the universe. We think we know a lot, but we are incredibly limited in what we can actually see compared to with what is out there

Unless scientists discover that there is a god after all, the exact nature of the mindless fabric of the universe is not the issue here.

You spelled atheist wrong.

Oops. Does anyone know how to get global spellcheck working again on Windows10?

 

[Red Hood]

I think you're misrepresenting what atheism is. This is really how it works.



Most atheists operate under the belief that they don't think a god exists until they are given evidence of such. If they The majority don't think that its 100% certain that a god exists, just that its unlikely. The people that are 100% certain no god exists and constantly mock religious people for believing so are in my view a small minority of atheists, generally the type of crowd you'd find on /r/atheism.

I apologise, atheism tends to have a reputation that fits the "gnostic atheist" description of your image, so my post was meant for that.

 

[Sushi Nao]

"No objective morality" means that morality is something completely reliant on circumstances such as society, time, other circumstances (if we're talking about morality of any particular action or situation) and personality.

There might be a common perception but there's absolutely not a single thing that can be deemed objectively moral or immoral- you can state that you will always be against the death penalty and that you think it is immoral, but that does not mean it is objectively the right thing.

Common perception is something else IMO.

Yeah, objective is probably the wrong word. I meant more like an inherent morality.

 

[Funyarinpa]

No offense, but atheism has to be one of the most stupid things out there.

Like, I can understand being agnostic, I totally do. There's no tangible proof of God, gods, spiritual deities or whatever, so saying something like "hey, I don't know man, I don't think so" is normal and logical. But actively saying there's nothing of a higher power at all, firmly convinced of that, and actively advocating against that is absolutely idiotic. How can something come from nothing? I'm not even talking about human evolution or the existence of the universe, we can all agree on those points, but where was the start? What was before the big bang? Okay, that we know, a lot of particles compressed and very close to each other, which resulted in the big bang. I also know that time - as we know it - came to be because of the big bang, and that before it, time - as we know it - didn't exist. But how did all those particles end up there? Where did they come from? Etc. etc. And I don't even expect a scientific answer, it's so long ago and we don't have the answers to it (yet), but it's the thought that counts. Everything has to have a start, theist people have their God or gods, but what do atheists have? "Yeah, well, we human beings cannot phantom that without a sense of time, so there was nothing before the big bang". Then how different is that from believing in "invisible" stuff you're very much against at?

Basically my point is that the main reason for atheism is also its downfall: logical common sense. Agnosticism on the other hand is something much more logical.

Faith is based on feeling and dogmatic conviction. Atheism, in comparison, is a constant state of self-questioning and reasoning, and conclusions being drawn from said reasoning. For a divine being to create, it would need to have a consciousness and a will. Thus, personally, I conclude that theism necessitates the existence of another conscious being beyond humanity. I personally view the universe as something that is able to exist without a deity, and thus, I deem that theism hasn't met a burden of proof and that thus, it doesn't exist. Do I constantly reevaluate that stance? Absolutely, but I've always come to the same conclusion: That a god, given our knowledge of the universe, does not exist. It's not possible to conclude that there is possibility of a deity existing beyond speculation.

Change the reason for my conclusion, what we know of the universe, and my logical answer will change.

To me, that is atheism.

 

[CornBurrito]

No offense, but atheism has to be one of the most stupid things out there.

Like, I can understand being agnostic, I totally do. There's no tangible proof of God, gods, spiritual deities or whatever, so saying something like "hey, I don't know man, I don't think so" is normal and logical. But actively saying there's nothing of a higher power at all, firmly convinced of that, and actively advocating against that is absolutely idiotic. How can something come from nothing? I'm not even talking about human evolution or the existence of the universe, we can all agree on those points, but where was the start? What was before the big bang? Okay, that we know, a lot of particles compressed and very close to each other, which resulted in the big bang. I also know that time - as we know it - came to be because of the big bang, and that before it, time - as we know it - didn't exist. But how did all those particles end up there? Where did they come from? Etc. etc. And I don't even expect a scientific answer, it's so long ago and we don't have the answers to it (yet), but it's the thought that counts. Everything has to have a start, theist people have their God or gods, but what do atheists have? "Yeah, well, we human beings cannot phantom that without a sense of time, so there was nothing before the big bang". Then how different is that from believing in "invisible" stuff you're very much against at?

Basically my point is that the main reason for atheism is also its downfall: logical common sense. Agnosticism on the other hand is something much more logical.

On the other hand, do you apply this thinking to leprechauns and invisible dragons? To Thor? Odin?

 

[Condom]

No it's not.

Believing in a deity requires faith, while not believing doesn't. Faith being a factor makes it inherently less "logical" than not believing.

Not believing requires faith too. You have faith in that 'x' religion is not true for example. Exception being agnostics.

Checkmate atheist

 

[cereal_killerxx]

This is one of the reasons I Believe.

My experience indicates that there is meaning and purpose in life.

Atheism is antithetical to this

Same!

I've found so much freedom, comfort, and love in my belief in Jesus. But most of all hope.

 

[Sorc3r3r]

But if you really take athiesm to it's logical conclusion, what are you left with? If everything is mindless atoms bumping into each other, with no guiding hand, then by definition there is no purpose in anything, no 'meaning of life', nothing but a howling chaos.

Flawless.
But in all this there is the human consciousness,your consciousness, that doesn't act randomly that follow very precise steps to understand and manipulate the surrounding reality.
That makes order in your supposed chaos with its will and intellect.

The athiest also loses any concept of a fixed morality. If different cultures have different (or even opposing) moral values, why should I follow any of them? Why not just make up my own morality where I can do whatever I want? It would be no more or less authentic than any other.

That's almost true, even the bible says that the moral laws are inscribed inside the human hearts so even if you think that there is no God, for the bible you can act just fine.
On the other side a moral system should necessarily come from the Truth, from a undoubtedly Truth that religions have in God.
It's rather obviuos that scaling back from that Truth makes every other moral system just a human convention, that states and communities lock in constitutions and laws but that in the end are arbitrary.

So is there any logical way out of this nihilistic mindset where a person is ultimately no more important than a pile of mud? Sure you can set your own goals (get a promotion, have kids, own a Porsche) but in a godless universe those goals are as meaningless as everything else. Your job, children and shiny car are as meaningless as you are and everything else is.

Umm...discuss.

A lot of Atheists have written about your last paragraph, some thinks like you, others have different opinions.

Opinions, without God, there are a lot of opinions, none of them more true than the other.

 

[adj_noun]

On the other hand, do you apply this thinking to leprechauns and invisible dragons? To Thor? Odin?

That's why I love Pascal's Wager so darn much.

 

[astroturfing]

as an atheist i wish i was religious, i wish it so much.. i could be very happy. but i'm just a miserable atheist and i think everything is absolutely pointless. we're just gonna suffer horribly and die (many of us before even growing old), dissolve into eternal nothingness without end, and will never exist again.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

I have definitely contemplated the relationship between atheism and nihilistic behaviors and thoughts.

If I were ever atheist, I would be a piece of garbage with no moral compass, because such a thing would be meaningless. I guess in that sense, being a believer in a higher power makes me a better person.

You really want to go down this path?

 

[ThusZarathustra]

Religion and the paternalist god did wonders for basic tribal suvival for marking out people as the other, as not part of the tribe, and so a threat. In a globalized world this a myopic perspective with horribly faulty logic at best. At worst, it leads to existential crisis of conscious to the point of psychopathy. Not what the OP is doing of course, but he's feeling the same old disconnect of his agency feeling hamstrung by his worldview.

Though be fair, all the mentions of "I'm my own god" are more deeply frightening to me than the OP's bullshit. It's really easy to let that thought warp under pressure and become "Fuck you I got mine." Though maybe I'm using the same faulty "Athesim=Nihilism" shortcut to get there, the placing of the self on the pedestal of god has never seemed like a good idea to me. You have to consciously maintain empathy or you get narcissist sociopaths via another route entirely.

 

[dabig2]

Not believing requires faith too. You have faith in that 'x' religion is not true for example. Exception being agnostics.

Checkmate atheist

Let's go even deeper. Atheists are actually more faithful than the devoted religious, because they have faith that "x+1" religions aren't true compared to said religious guy who just believes x religions aren't true.

Game over fedoras.

 

[Soriku]

The idea of an afterlife as reward/punishment that comes with it I assume.

What happens when you get to the afterlife? If there's no after-afterlife to strive for, is the afterlife meaningless?

The idea that God is the only way to have meaning in your life is really shallow.

 

[CornBurrito]

That's why I love Pascal's Wager so darn much.

Eh I don't mean that as a counter to Pascal's Wager.

But there's a growing subset of agnostic atheists who just call themselves agnostic. And then they play the "atheists are so dumb, you can't disprove god. We can only say we aren't sure they exist."

Of course this logic is never applied to "Is magic actually real?" "Do leprechauns exist?" "Is Thor real and just in hiding?" "Did the devil plant fossils and is the world really 60 years old and we all have false memories?"

I've never seen a smug agnostic "Oh I'm so much better than gnostic atheists" play the "but we can't REALLY know" card when it comes to evolutionary theory or germ theory. Who knows, maybe it really is evil spirits and germs dont make us sick. You can't really disprove that.

 

[Chezzymann]

Same!

I've found so much freedom, comfort, and love in my belief in Jesus. But most of all hope.

And you can find just as much comfort and hope as an atheist. I honestly find it insulting when people think they are better off than others in terms of happiness or self fufillment depending on what you believe in. That their religion somehow makes them a better person than someone who is non religious. Everyone can find purpose in life no matter what you believe in. Don't get me wrong, its great that your religion makes you happy and works for you as a person, but don't act like it somehow gives you a source of happiness or purpose thats greater than someone who is non religious.

 

[Raist]

If I were ever atheist, I would be a piece of garbage with no moral compass, because such a thing would be meaningless. I guess in that sense, being a believer in a higher power makes me a better person.

I guess maybe you should have a good think about yourself if that's really the case. Irrespective of religion.

 

[Abstruse Moose]

The universe is 13.7 billion years old. You get to exist once for about 80 or so years if you're lucky. Enjoy it.

 

[Mr Waluigi]

No offense, but atheism has to be one of the most stupid things out there.

Like, I can understand being agnostic, I totally do. There's no tangible proof of God, gods, spiritual deities or whatever, so saying something like "hey, I don't know man, I don't think so" is normal and logical. But actively saying there's nothing of a higher power at all, firmly convinced of that, and actively advocating against that is absolutely idiotic. How can something come from nothing? I'm not even talking about human evolution or the existence of the universe, we can all agree on those points, but where was the start? What was before the big bang? Okay, that we know, a lot of particles compressed and very close to each other, which resulted in the big bang. I also know that time - as we know it - came to be because of the big bang, and that before it, time - as we know it - didn't exist. But how did all those particles end up there? Where did they come from? Etc. etc. And I don't even expect a scientific answer, it's so long ago and we don't have the answers to it (yet), but it's the thought that counts. Everything has to have a start, theist people have their God or gods, but what do atheists have? "Yeah, well, we human beings cannot phantom that without a sense of time, so there was nothing before the big bang". Then how different is that from believing in "invisible" stuff you're very much against at?

Basically my point is that the main reason for atheism is also its downfall: logical common sense. Agnosticism on the other hand is something much more logical.

How can something come from nothing? Maybe that's simply how the universe works. If quantum physics are a fucking mess, anything goes as far as what we can't know yet.
For all we know, the universe could simply be pulsating, in a cycle of Big Bangs and Big Crunches, and it has always existed and always will. Who knows?

Atheism simply denies the existence of any deity or higher power. Not all atheists strictly insist they know God doesn't exist, not all atheists are nonspiritual. Atheism denies the notion of a God because they find that the idea of there being a higher, supremely intelligent power is pure nonsense and completely irrational if there is no concrete proof and if it all comes down to personal feelings.

It doesn't help that the Christian God in particular displeases rationalists, who find no understanding of the Christian doctrines (Jesus was God but not God and he was sacrified to forgive humanity's sins? Bread and wine become flesh and blood? What?) and there is a sizeable portion (at least on GAF) that considers the idea of "do good and you go to heaven, do bad and you go to hell" to be a mere tool used by a greater organization to control the masses (and it doesn't help that such doctrines have been used as justification for terrible actions by religious men).

So, not only is the idea of God unappealing to the rationalist philosophies that have become more and more commonplace since we've realized technology and science could let us control our destiny, the notions regarding the Christian God are even more unappealing - and Christianity is the world's biggest religion.

 

[ThusZarathustra]

It's not about what you can prove or disprove, its about what you can reliably test.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

And you can find just as much comfort and hope as an atheist. I honestly find it insulting when people think they are better off than others in terms of happiness or self fufillment depending on what you believe in. That their religion somehow makes them a better person than someone who is non religious. Everyone can find purpose in life no matter what you believe in. Don't get me wrong, its great that your religion makes you happy and works for you as a person, but don't act like it somehow gives you a source of happiness or purpose thats greater than someone who is non religious.

Bingo! There is no gaping hole that Jesus needs to fill if you are truly satisfied in life as a atheist, agnostic, etc.

 

[CornBurrito]

I have definitely contemplated the relationship between atheism and nihilistic behaviors and thoughts.

If I were ever atheist, I would be a piece of garbage with no moral compass, because such a thing would be meaningless. I guess in that sense, being a believer in a higher power makes me a better person.

Is stoning homosexuals to death moral or immoral? If the latter, why?

Even if you pick a religious book to get your moral teachings from, you're still making an arbitrary choice of which moral code to follow.

Also we know that the capacity for morality is an evolved trait like any other.

 

[kinggroin]

This is one of the reasons I Believe.

My experience indicates that there is meaning and purpose in life.

Atheism is antithetical to this

Same here. It's how I've come to define "life".

YMMV, but I prefer this way than the aetgeist way and then try to be like, " it's all.about the awesome journey". Was never able to make those two things match up.

Good luck OP.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I think you're misrepresenting what atheism is. This is really how it works.

That's really a misrepresentation of gnosticism that makes it apply to way more religious people than it should. Gnosticism is a belief in that secret knowledge given to you mystically by the universe is more important than teachings handed to you by humans. In reality something like approximately 100% of atheists are agnostic atheists. Conversely many people who claim to be Agnostics are actually Gnostics because they don't believe in the teachings of religions but just "know" that there is some divine force out there.

 

[Red Hood]

Faith is based on feeling and dogmatic conviction. Atheism, in comparison, is a constant state of self-questioning and reasoning, and conclusions being drawn from said reasoning. For a divine being to create, it would need to have a consciousness and a will. Thus, personally, I conclude that theism necessitates the existence of another conscious being beyond humanity. I personally view the universe as something that is able to exist without a deity, and thus, I deem that theism hasn't met a burden of proof and that thus, it doesn't exist. Do I constantly reevaluate that stance? Absolutely, but I've always come to the same conclusion: That a god, given our knowledge of the universe, does not exist. It's not possible to conclude that there is possibility of a deity existing beyond speculation.

Change the reason for my conclusion, what we know of the universe, and my logical answer will change.

To me, that is atheism.

I can respect that reasoning, but my point was largely whether or not something can come from nothingness. In this example, our universe prior to the big bang - when it was still in a dense and hot state. Has it always been there, or did it come to be? And how? Why? There has to be a cause and effect. Of course we don't know the answer, but something existing from nothing goes against common sense, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Itaremustbedangeres]

Why do people need to believe in a god for a meaning in life?

Life is what you make of it, not what is dictated by a book.

I'm an atheist and I live happily without religion. I'm not in fear of an afterlife in hell due to me misbehaving during my time on earth, because I know that when I die there will be nothing. I will cease to exist and that's the end of it. No shiny gates where I have to answer for all the things I did wrong in life and that's actually a great thing as it makes me value my life a lot more.

 

[Soriku]

I have definitely contemplated the relationship between atheism and nihilistic behaviors and thoughts.

If I were ever atheist, I would be a piece of garbage with no moral compass, because such a thing would be meaningless. I guess in that sense, being a believer in a higher power makes me a better person.

I wonder if you truly believe you be like that. What would the benefit be? Just be an asshole for the hell of it? Make people hate you on purpose? That's stupid.

If you need a higher power (fictional or not) to be a better person, it just means that deep down inside you're a piece of shit.

Same here. It's how I've come to define "life".

YMMV, but I prefer this way than the aetgeist way and then try to be like, " it's all.about the awesome journey". Was never able to make those two things match up.

Good luck OP.

I struggle to understand what qualities you get when you look to a god for meaning.

 

[Fenderputty]

And you can find just as much comfort and hope as an atheist. I honestly find it insulting when people think they are better off than others in terms of happiness or self fufillment depending on what you believe in. That their religion somehow makes them a better person than someone who is non religious.

That's because it is insulting.

 

[CornBurrito]

I can respect that reasoning, but my point was largely whether or not something can come from nothingness. In this example, our universe prior to the big bang - when it was still in a dense and hot state. Has it always been there, or did it come to be? And how? Why? There has to be a cause and effect. Of course we don't know the answer, but something existing from nothing goes against common sense, wouldn't you agree?

"common sense" is a crap argument.

Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Noirulus]

as an atheist i wish i was religious, i wish it so much.. i could be very happy. but i'm just a miserable atheist and i think everything is absolutely pointless. we're just gonna suffer horribly and die (many of us before even growing old), dissolve into eternal nothingness without end, and will never exist again.

Read "I Am That" by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

The problem with these threads is that everyone is fixated on the Western interpretation of god.

 

[80s Bad Guy]

I just like to think of it all as a happy accident and try to enjoy the moment-to-moment experience of being alive.

I'm also glad I won't be around when humans eventually discover/implement immortality because without the threat of death we will truly become monsters.

 

[Aikidoka]

How does the existence of a god get rid of any arbitrariness? Statements like "serve God is morally right" and "my purpose is doing what God planned" are utterly arbitrary and often circular and rest on unfounded assumptions.

Essentially, the premise is flawed in that a god existing (whatever that means) does absolutely nothing to make the world less subjective or arbitrary. It has no more to say on the matter of morals than the existence of the moon does.