peaceiscloser
Member
If anything I'm awfully surprised NoA released a PR statement about the whole thing.
Alison Rapp Fired By Nintendo Discussion Thread -- Read Ground Rules in OP
- Thread starter charlequin
- Start date
- Status
LudicrousSpeed
Member
OR:
Nintendo wanted to fire her but was looking to avoid the PR shitstorm that would come with firing her over that, and the second job thing worked as a convenient excuse so they didn't have to admit why they really didn't want her around anymore.
It's all about sales, man.
Imagine if a conservative mother sees her child making gay marriages in Tomodachi Life, and goes viral with it, to spark outrage among those that oppose gay marriage or don't want their children to be exposed to that kind of thing. That makes Nintendo look bad, and results in lost game sales.
Nintendo protects their bottom line, first and foremost.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Honestly this would have got her fired from many jobs; especially leadership positions.
Hope she finds somewhere she can progress professionally.
Hope she finds somewhere she can progress professionally.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I'm toying with that idea as well. I could entirely see Nintendo sacrifice an employee to avoid controversy (while being entirely ignorant of just how much more of a target it has become solely because of its actions) and twisting facts in order to justify it.
Nope. Didn't once defend child porn in her thesis. She talked about Japanese culture and how we in the west can be so imperialistic to their culture and demanding changes which would also force them into the same situation the west is in with demonizing people who need help and wasting efforts on the the current happenings rather than the root of the problems.
She actually wanted the west to be less imperialistic to them and also keep Japanese culture in tact.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I'm 99% sure this is what happened.
charlequin
Banned
At-will law explicitly doesn't protect an employer against contractual or statutory requirements outside its scope, so any company is going to have an alternate story on hand (however accurate it may or may not be to the real decision process behind the firing) if it could otherwise be interpreted as gender discrimination.
Keep this kind of baseless speculation to yourself, probably.
stump sock
Member
why wouldn't it be? when has that kind of political angle ever been something Nintendo as a company has ever addressed? when you have an employee who acts as a public face to your company, you want to make sure that anything they say can't be misinterpreted as a company line.
where I work, there are very specific rules about our social media presence. specifically, we can't make it appear in any way that something we say could be taken as being associated with our employer. so, in effect, I can't put my job on my twitter bio and then just carry on as normal. by her even displaying her job title/employer in her twitter bio would be enough to raise concern where I work, and in many other companies these days. it's just smart practice to separate your private life and views from your work life at any and all times
even if that seems dumb
Glitchesarecool
Member
Man this is conspiratorial.
LudicrousSpeed
Member
The point is that statement is insulting as fuck. Choosing not to include gay marriage is 100% a political statement. Casting only variations from the status quo as "political" is a way to attempt to marginalize and erase minority identities and views.
Nintendo of America came back a week later and issued the statement that Nintendo should have issued from the jump, but they got pilloried over it for the entire week intervening because they issued a statement that was at least as insulting as the original change/bug fix.
Yes to both these points. Even without the firing, the resurgence of GG is depressing. I really didn't think we'd see them pulling off anything of this magnitude again.
And yeah, a well-managed would not be having to give statements to IGN about the firing of a midlevel employee, but that's the position they've put themselves in.
A Link to the Past
Banned
This is the worst idea ever
NormalFish
Banned
This is well put. At this point it isn't "GamerGate" that's the issue. It's the tacit acceptance of harassment as a normal attribute of gaming culture that's so appalling. As I said in my first post, the day law enforcement finds a means to crack down on such vile behaviour is a day I'll dance through the streets.
You clearly do not share my -- or any other -- definition of inflammatory.
A Link to the Past
Banned
It's ordinary. Companies make excuses to fire people all the time. Nintendo, as people have pointed out, is a conservative company that doesn't like to get involved in political messes, like GamerGate.
No, this is how Corporate America works. It's a very cold thing that occurred here, but it's all within company guidelines and policies, there's really no heart or emotion to what's considered the "Professional" relationship with the company. It's often very black and white. This goes for most jobs, I don't know what idealistic place you work for or want to work for, but most of them operate in this manner.
stump sock
Member
yeah, and that's why I said it's weird they made a statement on it. like, they could have fired her for anything, and kept a whole pack of trump cards in their back pocket if it came down to it. I know very well how this stuff works. Actually naming a reason to the public somewhat locks them in to that particular reason
believe that if you want, I guess. at no point did I ever say my own personal opinions on the matter. But I know very well what subjects many companies would rather not breach, and I'd be willing to bet "rape culture" is on the list of many of them.
hey_monkey
Banned
Truth. Compare the shit that's been said across platforms on her to what's been said about Nich Maragos.
Not baseless. As you can see. Not claiming to be a know it all either. As I've stated, just speculation. Just like anyone else here.
Her ideals were different from what treehouse was trying to do with their localizations.
Once again, not stating this is a fact. I'll leave it at that.
Thanks????
Perhaps this was their line of thinking, but they've hardly avoided the PR shitstorm, have they? Honestly, if they wanted to avoid backlash, they should have kept her on board. There was certainly controversy surrounding her before, but it was mainly from GG, an extremely loud minority. I truly don't believe that anything she did or said in the past was a good enough reason to terminate her.
MasterHoodie
Member
What kind of statement should Nintendo have put out to get in front of this? Something like
"Our employee has been the victim of online harassment and bullying, we stand by her and denounce the harassment she has been undergoing. However, there have been claims brought to our attention that we are in the middle of investigating"
There had to have been something they could have made to soften the blow, right?
"Our employee has been the victim of online harassment and bullying, we stand by her and denounce the harassment she has been undergoing. However, there have been claims brought to our attention that we are in the middle of investigating"
There had to have been something they could have made to soften the blow, right?
This seems like it just kept escalating until it reached a tipping point for them to me. Was it the wrong call? I think so, because it sets some kind of bad precedent and stigma, like the Pranger situation, because them being silent is what led this to continue and boil over without people waiting for a proper response from them. They did a lateral move, but I feel like they could've taken the 'don't moonlight like this anymore' approach pretty easily here. Maybe they felt that those images would've been brought to light and cause more harm to them as well and got spooked.
Now an important question is how is Nintendo going to deal with this kind of thing going forward to ensure that it doesn't happen again? Because them continuing to do the same thing simply won't work.
I agree. Who the hell is the piece of shit who hated her so much as to say to Nintendo that she is anonymously moonlighting? Why would someone even fucking care?
Alpha Phoenix
Member
Whatever the reason, I wish her well.
Tallshortman
Member
There are essentially zero companies that allow "freedom of speech". Speech is protected against certain legal consequences, companies do not and have never been expected to allow freedom of speech to any employees. What you're allowed to say in public without being fired is entirely dependent on the code of conduct and terms laid out in your employment contract.
I really don't know if she was wrongly terminated or not although obviously I condemn the harassment. However, I'm not sure where you have worked that you think she or anyone else is afforded "saying what they think without fear of punishment". Of course that's not the case, any company retains the right to terminate employees for speech if it hurts their image or causes unwanted controversy (in Nintendo's opinion).
Regardless, Nintendo claims the termination was not a speech issue so whether you believe them or not is up to you.
For the people who think Nintendo did the right thing here:
How many employees currently at NoA will be able to survive this level of scrutiny? After seeing their tactics succeed, why would the abusers NOT try to repeat their success? Nintendo has just opened their entire company up to full-blown harassment.
How many employees currently at NoA will be able to survive this level of scrutiny? After seeing their tactics succeed, why would the abusers NOT try to repeat their success? Nintendo has just opened their entire company up to full-blown harassment.
NormalFish
Banned
No one thinks this. What people do think, however, is that Nintendo's silence and subsequent firing of an employee targeted by a harassment campaign points to some vile facets of the industry.
"Not within the company message" and "inflammatory" are not the same. "Rape is bad" is only inflammatory if your audience is rapists and rape apologists. I doubt that Nintendo includes such individuals as pillars of their target audience.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
I hope Allison lands on her feet. I hope Nintendo will do more to help its employees that face harassment in the future. I hope anyone engaging in online harassment grows up and sees the harm they are doing to others. I really hope there will be better ways to combat brigades like this in the future.
I still believe Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, EA, Activision, and all the others should make a statement to oppose gamergate in name and not in general that they're against harassment of any kind. So far there is still silence about the issue in the industry.
They are already a target.
This is what i'm not understanding, was the 2nd job the modeling thing? She says she did it under another name, but anon found out and sent it to Nintendo.
But yet she posted teaser pics of her modeling on her tweeter, so was the 2nd job something else im confused.
And staying silent sure as worked out swell huh?
It was something else.
Honestly I have also been scratching my head about that one. Some are of the opinion that Nintendo should have done something. The question is what could Nintendo have done? also are we sure that Nintendo hasn't done anything behind the scenes
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
That level of scrutiny is the norm for many industries. If Nintendo feels like enforcing those standards that is their decision.
To which I say with a wholesome heart realistically, good luck in America. At least with Justice Scalia gone that's one step of the way.
Nobody is asking them to. We just want them to do or say something significant about it. You think they shouldn't because GG is something to be feared? That's absurd.
Yes. Freedom of speech relates to the government, not your employer.
"not baseless" "just speculation" i don't think you know what those words mean. your theory is completely baseless, speculative and pretty much useless.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Taking shots in the dark, speculating on matters, can only lead to detectivry, which this thread does not need.
Perhaps. The problem occurs when Nintendo's the one taking aim.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Not their entire company. I'm sure all of the male employees are going to get out of this just fine.
But if I were a female employee at Nintendo with any sort of public presence, I would be very, very afraid right now.
There are too many reasons why this would get threads dedicated to it.
This is entirely possible, but without knowing what the moonlighting position was no one can say. This could have been an easy out for Nintendo, or it could have been totally valid. For conversation's sake let's say it WAS valid and she was doing something drastic like working for a competitor or something ridiculous; GG bringing it to Nintendo's attention shifts blame to them, but at the same time that's like stealing money at your work and it being okay only because they didn't know about it. To be clear I doubt this is the case and I'm more inclined to agree with you, but because we don't know the nature of her second position it's just going to lead to roundabout speculation.
I think either way we can all agree that Nintendo handled this poorly from the get-go, and we probably wouldn't be here right now otherwise.
SneakersSO
Member
I'm just gonna go over your points one at a time, since its one of the posts that has me intrigued the most on having a discussion.
If we're talking about the games industry, or any industry with an active, engaged consumer face, then this isn't something that applies to just women - few people who have even a slight amount of public presence are allowed full freedom of speech on what they say without fear of any of it coming back to their employer. This has occurred a multitude of times to both men & women in a variety of instances in various other contexts.
The hate movement don't like her or her friends. People within that movement brought various things to Nintendo's attention that they thought Nintendo might find unfavorable, including a side-job that they didn't agree with, and terminated her as a result. Yes, she's absolutely the victim of an internet mob, but that doesn't automatically shield her from corporate consequence or evaluation. Nintendo did try to push her out of the public light, and that may have been to both parties benefit; with her having less public presence, the target on her back might've been lessened, who knows. This was an ongoing process covering years, apparently. I imagine, at a certain point, Nintendo must've gotten tired of being thrown into the middle of an online culture war. Cowardly? Sure. But they clearly just want to focus on selling software/hardware and not much else, and have been this way for at least the last decade.
Yes, while there aren't really a standard for 'workers rights' in the games industry, the condition of the workplace both fluctuates, and is heavily documented to be kinda shit in the game's industry. However, I don't think that necessarily has anything to do with this story, unless you're talking about your first point & how she isn't allowed to really speak her mind, which we've already established is the norm for people in positions that deal with the public.
Hang on - we've had several game companies & figures within game companies come out & lambaste the GG community since its inception. By name. Some even during their own conventions. We have companies in the game's industry that not only are actively against these aspects of the game's industry, but are actively conducting research to try & create better online play spaces for all players. Nintendo was caught between a rock & a hard place. They do seem to have tried to make it work to an extent between themselves & Allison for a time, but ultimately decided that moving on would probably be best (admittedly after people within that opposing group brought negative aspects of her life to her employer's attention).
There are some outlets that don't want to get more involved in the online culture wars that rage across social media than others. IGN has been one of the outlets that has turned away from reporting on these kinds of stories, choosing to focus solely on game news. They did come out and bemoan GG back when it first got underway. But this is clearly not a thing they want to get involved with. Thats their prerogative. Other outlets, like Kotaku, reveal in kicking over the hornet's nest that is this topic. Its okay that not everyone wants to cover something with the exact tone or fervor that you hold - it doesn't mean their bad people, it just means they don't care about it as much as others do.
Those photos that she herself published are fine. In fact, many outlets have & use female models to advertise their products. Heck, Nintendo did a cross-promotional shoot with Playboy for Bayonetta 2. This isn't about sex-negativity from Nintendo - this is about them protecting their corporate image, which they are absolutely entitled to do. We already know those photos weren't the cause for why she was fired, but we learned that after those photos came to light. Everything at that point was pure speculation. Those people weren't slut-shaming, they were empathizing in why a company would find that actionable cause for termination, which it absolutely could be, if those kind of photos were released for someone considered a public face for your company.
The previous thread proved that waiting for more information in this story was absolutely needed before making any rash judgement. Knee jerk reactions tend to just make these situations absolutely worse. Keep in mind - no one wants GGs side in all of this. That last thread proved that this group is held in contempt on this forum. Instead, users here wanted to try & gleam Nintendo's side of this story before publicly crucifying the company. The ones who waited on more information wound up winning out.
Fix what? The internet? You do realize that you're essentially asking people to 'fix' the internet? Like, I get it, you blame GG for ruining things, but how do you think anyone would go about fixing it? It's not like there is some solution that The Internet is plainly refusing to utilize. This is a social culture war waged across social media. Many things have been attempted and nothing has gotten better. This is the politicization of our sub-culture - the games industry We opened this can of worms by bringing in more & more political discourse into the medium. You didn't really think opening up these conversations in this medium would go unchallenged by other political interests? Look what its done to every other medium that gets politicized. Politics is more divided now than its ever been. There is no 'fixing' this.
This is another worrying part. They just opened pandora's box without thinking.
pirateluigi
Member
Personally, I would love for the big 3 to all vocally and explicitly condemn this kind of harassment. They have the power to help sway and shape public opinion. By remaining mostly silent, gg and similar movements get to shape the narrative to their liking.
That's a fact and GG is in the root of the situation because of it. Females are the ones under constant scrutiny so it doesn't matter if Nintendo's response to a male might've been different.
- Status