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[TheBaldEmperor]

This is what i'm not understanding, was the 2nd job the modeling thing? She says she did it under another name, but anon found out and sent it to Nintendo.

But yet she posted teaser pics of her modeling on her tweeter, so was the 2nd job something else im confused.

She hasn't indicated what the second job was. I believe she would if it put her in a positive light. She probably would have used her real name also if she thought Nintendo would be cool with it.

 

[sturgboski]

OR:

Nintendo wanted to fire her but was looking to avoid the PR shitstorm that would come with firing her over that, and the second job thing worked as a convenient excuse so they didn't have to admit why they really didn't want her around anymore.

Well, if we take Allison at face value, moonlighting (ie the second job) is an ok thing at NOA and encouraged. Now, granted, I assume there are some rules and regulations around what that "moonlighting" can be. Unless he broke THOSE rules, this is pretty much NOA going "how do we fire her and make it look like a policy issue?" and bingo, you end up with this.

Now, there are definitely questions about why she did the moonlighting "undercover" and how NOA ended up finding out. I am sure that story is interesting.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Just imagine how big of a deal it would have been if Nintendo's response was to defend its employees instead of throwing Rapp to the wolves. What would GamerGate do, boycott Nintendo? And what if Valve, Sony, and Microsoft were to do the same against GamerGate? I guess have fun with Origin.

In its goal to protect its corporate infrastructure, GamerGate now knows that Nintendo is afraid of it, and thus we'll see many, many Nintendo employees facing harassment, creating an uncomfortable and unsafe situation for them. And they will either have to fire those employees too to escape the controversy, or actually stand up in defense of its employees.

 

[Vex_]

"not baseless" "just speculation" i don't think you know what those words mean. your theory is completely baseless, speculative and pretty much useless.

You're not following me.

Taking shots in the dark, speculating on matters, can only lead to detectivry, which this thread does not need.



Perhaps. The problem occurs when Nintendo's the one taking aim.

No detective work required. All any of us can do is speculate. No one knows anything outside of the OP. There is little room for discussion on anything else other than GG and their harassment campaign.

No one knows what her second job was. No one knows if that is the real reason why she was terminated.

 

[MasterHoodie]

That's a fact and GG is in the root of the situation because of it. Females are the ones under constant scrutiny so it doesn't matter if Nintendo's response to a male might've been different.

Disagree. We've seen dudes gone after by the same people.

 

[Eevee86]

And staying silent sure as worked out swell huh?

Seems to me they were going to keep her around until they found out she broke company policy.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Just imagine how big of a deal it would have been if Nintendo's response was to defend its employees instead of throwing Rapp to the wolves. What would GamerGate do, boycott Nintendo? And what if Valve, Sony, and Microsoft were to do the same against GamerGate? I guess have fun with Origin

Yes. Nintendo could have made a major stand against hatred and bigotry. Instead they chose the path of cowardice and further enabled harassers.

Disagree. We've seen dudes gone after by the same people.

Oh they'll complain about various men who criticize them or stand for things they don't like. But they don't try to ruin their lives the way they have for people like Alison Rapp, Zoe Quinn, Brianna Wu, Anita Sarkesian, and more.

 

[hey_monkey]

Disagree. We've seen dudes gone after by the same people.

Not at the same levels. Come on now.

 

[Kamina777]

If anything I'm awfully surprised NoA released a PR statement about the whole thing.

Because regardless of what really happened a narrative will be created that will make them look like monsters. They can't win but at least they have a counter statement rather than silence which twitter mobs see as an admission of guilt.

 

[El Odio]

You're not following me.




No detective work required. All any of us can do is speculate. No one knows anything outside of the OP. There is little room for discussion on anything else other than GG and their harassment campaign.

No one knows what her second job was. No one knows if that is the real reason why she was terminated.

Speculation should be the last thing any of us do if the previous incarnation of this thread is aby indication.

 

[Curufinwe]

Not their entire company. I'm sure all of the male employees are going to get out of this just fine.

But if I were a female employee at Nintendo with any sort of public presence, I would be very, very afraid right now.

You act like male employees have never been railroaded about of a gaming industry job by online harassment before.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/46...rassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups

 

[Neoleo2143]

Just imagine how big of a deal it would have been if Nintendo's response was to defend its employees instead of throwing Rapp to the wolves. What would GamerGate do, boycott Nintendo? And what if Valve, Sony, and Microsoft were to do the same against GamerGate? I guess have fun with Origin

At that stage, it would be easier to speak out against gamergate if all three big console manufacturers got in on it. On their own, competition is all too easy to kick in unless the individual already bought a console.

However, none of that matters because it's about internet Anonymity and basically the nightmare realization of the internet and the world of ours. Big Brother is here and he is of many.

 

[Quadraphonic]

It was something else.

Are we assuming this or has she said something to prove otherwise? I understand posting vague photos maybe contradict the purpose of using a pseudonym for the other job.

 

[charlequin]

I'm also unconvinced a company should be expected to support or step in over someone being harassed on their own social media accounts or through other means not accessed through the company or their property.

The alternative world (and which in some ways we are rapidly approaching) is one in which any one person can get any other one person fired from any job if they can get twenty people on the internet to help them do it.

I think the focus needs to be on what can be done to stop the harassment/GG going forward (and whether Nintendo being publicly supportive of Rapp earlier would have helped that), and not whether Nintendo should have fired her or not.

I mean, unfortunately, one of the things that helps stop this type of harassment is companies not reacting to it. If internet outrage is an effective economic weapon, people are incentivized to use it. (And yes, this does mean people need to restrain themselves from calling for people's heads for more unambiguously terrible things too.)

where I work, there are very specific rules about our social media presence. specifically, we can't make it appear in any way that something we say could be taken as being associated with our employer.

This is kind of its own problem, where people aren't actually paid to be walking billboards and lifestyle representatives of their employers but are still expected to act as such. Everyone having to be afraid to talk about injustices and touchy subjects because of the distant connection to their employer's brand has the ultimate effect of suppressing speech across society.

 

[MrCunningham]

After reading the OP, I have come to the conclusion that you should never go on a honeymoon while being employed within the videogame industry. It will lead to a demotion or public firing.

It seems like Nintendo didn't like her being connected to GamerGate through Twitter and then found a reason to fire her through her moonlighting gig. Am I getting this right?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Disagree. We've seen dudes gone after by the same people.

Yes, absolutely. We have indeed seen men receive literally 1/10 of the harassment that women receive from GamerGate.

At that stage, it would be easier to speak out against gamergate if all three big console manufacturers got in on it. On their own, competition is all too easy to kick in unless the individual already bought a console.

However, none of that matters because it's about internet Anonymity and basically the nightmare realization of the internet and the world of ours. Big Brother is here and he is of many.

GamerGate, really, it isn't shit. The only power it has is the power granted to it by cowardly entities and individuals. Caving to GG is as sensible a thing as caving to Breitbart over Star Wars. Imagine, Fire Emblem Fates might have sold 1,000 fewer copies if Nintendo stood up to GamerGate!

 

[dangeraaron10]

Ugh, fuck GG and everything it stands for.

I honestly feel this sets a bad precedent and is pretty telling about the current state of the industry at large. I really hope she lands back on her feet and finds a better company. Not much else needs to be said other than speculation. We could cease the discussion right now but the harassment would still continue. I think that needs to be a focus for the industry from here on out but...well, I don't trust they'll see it that way.

Best of luck, Alison.

After reading the OP, I have come to the conclusion that you should never go on a honeymoon while being employed within the videogame industry. It will lead to a demotion or public firing.

It seems like Nintendo didn't like her being connected to GamerGate through Twitter and then found a reason to fire her through her moonlighting gig. Am I getting this right?

The only thing I'm getting from this is to not work in the video game industry unless you're self employed.

 

[KingBroly]

Just imagine how big of a deal it would have been if Nintendo's response was to defend its employees instead of throwing Rapp to the wolves. What would GamerGate do, boycott Nintendo? And what if Valve, Sony, and Microsoft were to do the same against GamerGate? I guess have fun with Origin

The people bitching about localizations would've just bitched even louder than before. Like, this is where all that shit started. It's just something that would've continued on...and on...and on. Now these people will re-group and attack someone else, whether it be at Nintendo or someone else.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

Disagree. We've seen dudes gone after by the same people.

Two things about that. Whenever the hate group moves against men, the intensity is never quite as severe, and it only gets spun up when men speak up about feminism.

So, it's not just women, it's also men who speak up to advance the cause of women.

 

[Acerac]

Disagree. We've seen dudes gone after by the same people.

Yeah I'm pretty confident the men at the company have less to worry about than women when it comes to gater attacks.

 

[Nanashrew]

Disagree. We've seen dudes gone after by the same people.

Maybe men of color, but white dudes, nope. Not very.

 

[hey_monkey]

#butwhataboutthemen

 

[Kinsei]

Seems to me they were going to keep her around until they found out she broke company policy.

If they had kept her on (which no, it doesn't sound like they were going to do before finding out about her second job) then she would still be constantly harassed. The game industry has got to try and kill the monsters they've created.

 

[jmizzal]

And staying silent sure as worked out swell huh?



It was something else.

oh ok so if Nintendo didnt fire her for that, then it must have not been a real big conflict of interest. The modeling stuff alone seem like something Nintendo would freak out over.

 

[prwxv3]

How is it that there are still people that don't understand the first amendment? The first ammendment protects you from being punished by the government for something you say. I hope Alison gets a new job soon though.

 

[nephilimdj]

The alternative world (and which in some ways we are rapidly approaching) is one in which any one person can get any other one person fired from any job if they can get twenty people on the internet to help them do it.

We already had the Racists Getting Fired thread, In which people found it funny people would purposely get people fired from jobs on twitter comments.

 

[Meaty]

This is another worrying part. They just opened pandora's box without thinking.

My thoughts exactly, nintendo should have thought about this before.


Even if there were legit reasons to fire her (I dont believe that), doing so only makes people think they can just harass nintendo's female employees without no consequences. This wont be pretty.

 

[pupcoffee]

This is another worrying part. They just opened pandora's box without thinking.

As long as Nintendo's other employees aren't already behaving in a way that pisses off Nintendo... they should be okay. Gamer Gate basically snitched on her.

Gamer Gate couldn't have done it if Nintendo was okay with her behaviour in the first place. Gamer Gate basically used Nintendo to their own ends. They shouldn't be able to do that with any old, non-controversial employee.

 

[Sapientas]

Disagree. We've seen dudes gone after by the same people.

Yeah you're right, it's not a fact; GG have gone after a few males. My point still stands though since I very much doubt, given their recent history, that they would go after a male employee at Nintendo.

 

[Orin GA]

You're not following me.




No detective work required. All any of us can do is speculate. No one knows anything outside of the OP. There is little room for discussion on anything else other than GG and their harassment campaign.

No one knows what her second job was. No one knows if that is the real reason why she was terminated.

The funny thing is we all KNOW it was GG that brought on this shitstorm, yet without knowing the whole truth more people are blaming nintendo.

I no longer give a crap about what the big 3 do anymore, but people using this story for their continued fanboy agenda is what irks me the most.

 

[DR2K]

I hope another gaming company hires her on the spot, this industry needs to do a lot more to protect their employees.
The implications with this firing alone make for a much more hostile work environment for everyone at Nintendo.

 

[Vex_]

The people bitching about localizations would've just bitched even louder than before. Like, this is where all that shit started. It's just something that would've continued on...and on...and on. Now these people will re-group and attack someone else, whether it be at Nintendo or someone else.

It doesn't make sense why she was attacked in the first place. Like I've said earlier, she had nothing to do with those localizations, right?

Sometimes, people are so backwards.

 

[TheWorst]

Seems to me they were going to keep her around until they found out she broke company policy.

If you believe Alison, she didn't really break company policy.

 

[Laevateinn]

This thing is gross and makes me not want to buy Nintendo games for a while.

I feel so disconnected from modern gaming culture. How people get off on trying to destroy a person's personal life because a game didn't turn out the way they wanted to is beyond me. WTF is wrong with people. Fuck GG so much. I wish this cancer would get excised.

Seems to me they were going to keep her around until they found out she broke company policy.

Seems to me they were looking for a reason to get rid of her because a vile part of our community decided she needed to be sacrificed to Moloch.

 

[Funkyhamster]

Apologies if this is too off-topic, but I've been thinking about how in general, NoA's responses to cultural issues tend to seem much more tone-deaf than those of similar American or European game publishers/developers. It especially stands out considering NoA's location in Seattle, where a lot of other major corporations are outspoken about their progressive stances (e.g. Starbucks, REI, Costco, Microsoft). Is it because NoA itself is worried about avoiding controversy to maintain its family-friendly image, or because NCL dictates the messaging? And if it's the latter, is that a general cultural difference between Japanese and American companies, either in terms of political/social beliefs or messaging/PR approaches, or is it a quirk of NCL?

 

[partyphone]

if only women had as many advocates as the devil.

 

[TheOohChild]

I definitely understand why Nintendo doesn't want "do our age of consent laws make sense" to be a part of their public image. It just sucks this was all spurred on by the shit stains and their harassment. They are burning all this crazy energy fucking with her life for having an opinion on Twitter.

 

[A Link to the Past]

The people bitching about localizations would've just bitched even louder than before. Like, this is where all that shit started. It's just something that would've continued on...and on...and on. Now these people will re-group and attack someone else, whether it be at Nintendo or someone else.

Honestly, this whole thing made me care significantly less about the localization changes than I ever did (and I barely did). Is that perhaps unfair? Mildly sure, but allowing GamerGate to get a foothold in your movement is something that probably deserves such a response.

 

[obijkenobi]

Just imagine how big of a deal it would have been if Nintendo's response was to defend its employees instead of throwing Rapp to the wolves. What would GamerGate do, boycott Nintendo? And what if Valve, Sony, and Microsoft were to do the same against GamerGate? I guess have fun with Origin.

In its goal to protect its corporate infrastructure, GamerGate now knows that Nintendo is afraid of it, and thus we'll see many, many Nintendo employees facing harassment, creating an uncomfortable and unsafe situation for them. And they will either have to fire those employees too to escape the controversy, or actually stand up in defense of its employees.

The flip side of Nintendo ignoring the fact she broke their internal company policies would mean that other employees would know that Nintendo made an exception for an individual employee. That sets up a headache for them as well.

I'm not sure there was a 100% clear cut solution to this for these two parties. GamerGate is stupid, but I don't know if the answer for Nintendo in this particular case was standing up against GamerGate by keeping her on.

 

[magash]

Personally, I would love for the big 3 to all vocally and explicitly condemn this kind of harassment. They have the power to help sway and shape public opinion. By remaining mostly silent, gg and similar movements get to shape the narrative to their liking.

With all due respect your suggestion will not work. The reason being the perpetrators of these vile acts are psychopathic bullies. In my opinion, the only way that real and effective change can be recorded is by having far reaching cyber bullying laws. At the end of the day what these guys are doing is illegal and unless law enforcement can be allowed to effectively work I am afraid we will keep on having a repeat of this nasty event.

 

[x3sphere]

Honestly this would have got her fired from many jobs; especially leadership positions.

Hope she finds somewhere she can progress professionally.

Given how much more prevalent social media is in today's society I feel like companies need to start taking a more progressive stance on things like this. Nintendo may have been well within their rights to fire her, but it doesn't seem like they gave her any benefit of the doubt whatsoever. At least, going by what she said transpired in the events leading up to the firing.

 

[BrokenBox]

This whole story is really gross. Hope she finds work elsewhere soon, and at a place where she doesn't have to worry about GG fucking with her or a company scrutinizing her when this kind of harassment occurs.

 

[Nanashrew]

Honestly, this whole thing made me care significantly less about the localization changes than I ever did (and I barely did). Is that perhaps unfair? Mildly sure, but allowing GamerGate to get a foothold in your movement is something that probably deserves such a response.

Same for me. Though Operation Downpour was started by GG so the movement was terrible from the start.

 

[ibyea]

As long as Nintendo's other employees aren't already behaving in a way that pisses off Nintendo, they should be okay.

They won't be okay. This incident has proven Nintendo will not protect people from harassment, and furthermore harassers can get their way by digging into private information deep enough.

 

[KingBroly]

It doesn't make sense why she was attacked in the first place. Like I've said earlier, she had nothing to do with those localizations, right?

Sometimes, people are so backwards.

Her name was at the top of the credits for that stuff, or at least prominently to the point where people put the blame on her. That's basically it. Her name was high on a random totem pole that ticked somebody off.

There were SO MANY threads over the past several months about how people were blaming her specifically for localization changes to Fatal Frame 5, XCX and FE:Fates. It was ridiculous.

 

[A Link to the Past]

The flip side of Nintendo ignoring the fact she broke their internal company policies would mean that other employees would know that Nintendo made an exception for an individual employee. That sets up a headache for them as well.

I'm not sure there was a 100% clear cut solution to this for these two parties. GamerGate is stupid, but I don't know if the answer for Nintendo in this particular case was standing up against GamerGate by keeping her on.

What corporate policy exists that suggests that she cannot moonlight? She had a second job that she had anonymously. All we know is that Nintendo claimed that it created a conflict and that they don't condone harassment (while doing literally nothing of value to show this to be the case).

We already had the Racists Getting Fired thread, In which people found it funny people would purposely get people fired from jobs on twitter comments.

Which tweet by Rapp, exactly, is comparative to the first tweet in that thread?

Same for me. Though Operation Downpour was started by GG so the movement was terrible from the start.

Oh shit, I didn't even know that. I just thought it was co-opted by GG. Now I don't give two shits, lol. Every localization change only made Fates better!

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

If they had kept her on (which no, it doesn't sound like they were going to do before finding out about her second job) then she would still be constantly harassed. The game industry has got to try and kill the monsters they've created.

Everyone in the industry needs to be taking a lot of steps to fix these issues.

For starters, we need to have companies across the board coming out and directly condemning GamerGate by name, saying they don't want their business, and decrying all hate speech.

We also need a strong commitment to more female protagonists, games targeted at female gamers, games with broader diversity in their casts, and games from all genres getting focus, rather than just hyper violent games.

And I don't just mean token interest being shown, but games targeted at groups other than 18-24 year old dude bros getting big budgets, big E3 coverage, and being treated as "AAA" releases.

If the gaming industry is going to commit to ending this monster, they need to start treating all members of the gaming audience as being equally important.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Moonlightiing is generally allowed as long as it presents no conflict of interest with your primary employer. And generally unless its something very irrelevant to your main job (you work in a tech office weekdays and a farm on weekends) you are expected to disclose what it is to your employer. She isn't gonna win a lawsuit over this.

I agree. I'm sure that Nintendo had their lawyers involved in this process to ensure that they were completely covered legally for this termination.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

The flip side of Nintendo ignoring the fact she broke their internal company policies would mean that other employees would know that Nintendo made an exception for an individual employee. That sets up a headache for them as well.

I'm not sure there was a 100% clear cut solution to this for these two parties. GamerGate is stupid, but I don't know if the answer for Nintendo in this particular case was standing up against GamerGate by keeping her on.

They didn't have to terminate. Breaking company policy is not automatic dismissal. There is normally a discipline policy in place and depending exceptions can be made. Maybe according to discipline policy should needs to be fired but its all speculation on our part.

 

[Nanashrew]

Her name was at the top of the credits for that stuff, or at least prominently to the point where people put the blame on her. That's basically it. Her name was high on a random totem pole that ticked somebody off.

There were SO MANY threads over the past several months about how people were blaming her specifically for localization changes to Fatal Frame 5, XCX and FE:Fates. It was ridiculous.

Yep, and she even stated today that she was against removing the boob slider in XCX, no doubt she was also against other changes in those games too.