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[SneakersSO]

GamerGate members have a very, very sordid history of using Twitter to communicate death threats, doxxing, and hate speech. Twitter has a very sordid history of ignoring this. So no, they are not going to lose a discrimination lawsuit, no more than Reddit would if they got sued by coontown members.

You could say the same thing about Republicans discriminating against <insert gender, sexual orientation, or race here> and it still wouldn't work out. The fact is, you can't ban a group of people like that unless they are breaking your ToS or committing a crime. Guess what, you're going to find members of GG, or GG sympathizers, who have never broken the Twitter ToS, nor have they ever harassed anyone, and yet they'd be affected by this label-wide ban.

Btw, do you realize you could use this mentality to oppress any group of people that have really ugly members in their ranks? Religions or any other organization? Food for thought before you go off the deep end.

 

[Vinland]

An organized hate group that has on multiple occasions put people at risk of death does not have normal free speech protections. Publishers are not required to grant a hate group access to their services.

So what you are saying is that Twitter and any other social media outlet needs to not be anonymous. They have to have more people on staff to process reported hate speech. All social media integration are mandatory to use online services. They need to be tied into government systems to validate state and federal documentation is valid and not worked up for anonymous side accounts. Just to play call of duty and post cat pics and to be able to freely publically express themselves without any criticism from any other perspectives that might clash.

Yep. That that is going to end well.

 

[manfestival]

I don't mean this as a drive by comment, but it really does seem to be the cool thing to hate on Ninty. Mix even a hint of GamerGate nonsense and you have yourself a NeoGaf lake of fire.

I see a lot of people hungry for some sort of justice regarding GG and this topic is a convenient excuse to tackle that issue.

Yeah that is pretty much what I have gotten. She got herself in a case of bad business and this other stuff is brought up because she was a victim of it and now it is being treated as if it is the leading cause without knowing for sure. People on here are always looking for an argument.

 

[jonno394]

Seems like a couple if indie devs have "cancelled" their eshop titles in protest of this. What a mess.

 

[SneakersSO]

I think banning actual harassers is what people are actually asking for.

Some are. But if you read my reply to A Link To The Past, they want to go after anyone who identifies with the GG label, not just individual harassers.

I am 1000% with you on banning actual harassers.

 

[A Link to the Past]

You could say the same thing about Republicans discriminating against <insert gender, sexual orientation, or race here> and it still wouldn't work out. The fact is, you can't ban a group of people like that unless they are breaking your ToS or committing a crime. Guess what, you're going to find members of GG, or GG sympathizers, who have never broken the Twitter ToS, nor have they ever harassed anyone, and yet they'd be affected by this label-wide ban.

Btw, do you realize you could use this mentality to oppress any group of people that have really ugly members in their ranks? Religions or any other organization? Food for thought before you go off the deep end.

Banning people for being members of an organization created literally to harass and threaten people is not akin to banning people who are from an organization that has people who may harass or threaten people.

 

[fernoca]

I'd prefer to keep the discussion on the silence on harassment in the industry, but to clarify on that point: Even before Gamergate became a thing, there was a very toxic group of individuals withing gaming that people should have spoke up about but didn't because that's just the status quo. Nintendo may not have intended to contribute to this stagnant situation when they fired Alison, but they also didn't intend "to make any form of social commentary" with Tomodachi Life denying same-sex marriages which, apology issued or not, their actions speak much larger than whatever their PR puts out, to say nothing of the problems surrounding Fire Emblem Fates' handling of its gay characters and same-sex relationships

Spoiler

also Radiant Dawn with Heather, what a strawwoman

. Nintendo of America willingly decided to hire someone whose homophobic views were known prior to Gamergate which, to me, sends the wrong message and goes against what they've stated in the past about inclusiveness in regards to their audiences, that their gameplay experiences should reflect the diversity of the communities in which they operate. Nintendo is not some obscure, new developer, they're one of the largest video game companies in the world and they should know better. They can't claim ignorance about that or their termination of Alison and the motivations behind the anonymous individuals who contacted them in regards to her second job.

Mostly focusing on the Baldwin-bit..
But still doesn't change that Adam's idiotic and myopic stance and homophobia were even unknown to his closest people and coworkers. Joss Whedon, Alan Tudyk and Sean Maher even after Sean admitted been gay.

Plus in some cases, voice acting is handled by a separate company while the game is worked on (Japan in this case). So that may've had an effect on things and then realizing..."oh..so that guy is in the cast..ugh".

And seeing how in 2015 he worked on Steam and did Infinite Crisis as Green Lantern...but not much since then, he may not be getting as many offers as he did; and what was in 2015 was the result of earlier contracts.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

Yeah, that would never go well. Discrimination lawsuits and all that. The most Twitter can do is make a strict ToS regarding harassment & particularly policies, and strictly enforce it whenever its broken, which is their current solution.

If you think Twitter strictly enforces it's ToS in regards to harassment, you haven't been paying attention to Twitter. There's practically a running joke of people getting responses from Twitter reports of harassing behavior where death threats are coupled with a message that says "We have determined this is not in violation of Twitter's policies."

 

[mjp2417]

Seems like a couple if indie devs have "cancelled" their eshop titles in protest of this. What a mess.

Good on them

 

[The Wheel of Fortune]

Seems like a couple if indie devs have "cancelled" their eshop titles in protest of this. What a mess.

Anything noteworthy? I can't even think of any interesting indie games coming to WiiU/3DS this year.

 

[openrob]

Ultimately, whether or not GG or Nintendo were first to discover the second job (and it seems that GG was the ones who uncovered that particular bit) it's pretty clear they wanted her gone and just didn't want to deal with it, and so they took the firable offense they had and used it. They could have offered her the opportunity to quit the second job and face some internal discipline or something, but they opted to terminate, and given the current environment, it's hard to disentangle that decision from GG.

That's a good point.
Just because the second job was why she was fired, it does not mean that was the reason she was wanted out.

 

[Nanashrew]

Anything noteworthy? I can't even think of many noteworthy indies coming to WiiU/3DS this year.

Devs that never put anything on a Nintendo system ever. Either way still bad but also not exactly threatening.

 

[SneakersSO]

If you think Twitter strictly enforces it's ToS in regards to harassment, you haven't been paying attention to Twitter. There's practically a running joke of people getting responses from Twitter reports of harassing behavior where death threats are coupled with a message that says "We have determined this is not in violation of Twitter's policies."

I've seen tons of bans on twitter, especially against GG members. In fact, theres a pretty prominent person who is against GG (I forget his name. He has a Kirby avatar) who makes a habit of posting whenever one of his reports of a harasser does result in a ban.

I will agree, Twitter, and no one in social media really, has good enough tools to combat online harassment. This is one of those things that must continue to be worked on. But the most effective tool is the one that punishes those who are actually harmful, not just those who subscribe to an ideology.

 

[A Link to the Past]

So what you are saying is that Twitter and any other social media outlet needs to not be anonymous. They have to have more people on staff to process reported hate speech. All social media integration are mandatory to use online services. They need to be tied into government systems to validate state and federal documentation is valid and not worked up for anonymous side accounts. Just to play call of duty and post cat pics and to be able to freely publically express themselves without any criticism from any other perspectives that might clash.

Yep. That that is going to end well.

That's an impressive fantasy you've spun.

I've seen tons of bans on twitter, especially against GG members. In fact, theres a pretty prominent person who is against GG (I forget his name. He has a Kirby avatar) who makes a habit of posting whenever one of his reports of a harasser does result in a ban.

I will agree, Twitter, and no one in social media really, has good enough tools to combat online harassment. This is one of those things that must continue to be worked on. But the most effective tool is the one that punishes those who are actually harmful, not just those who subscribe to an ideology.

I've had a person circumvent a block and for the longest time retweet everything I said, while gloating about it on his timeline. Even as the TOS is pretty clear that this would constitute harassment, I got nothing but the same canned response that a lot of other clear harassment receives. Twitter is really, really bad about this kind of shit.

 

[hey_monkey]

She sure is airing a lot of dirty laundry since the termination. That could be really bad for her; if she's got a strict NDA then it could be lawsuit. Also, large companies really tend to avoid people and situations like this so she may end up limited to career options in the indie scene for the next couple of years.

She may be screwed anyway unless a potential employer is sympathetic thanks to the spread of all the pedo shit.

 

[jonno394]

Good on them

I disagree. Nintendo fired an employee for what appears to be a valid reason.

Anything noteworthy? I can't even think of any interesting indie games coming to WiiU/3DS this year.

A company called necrosoft and another called midboss

 

[RomanticHeroX]

If you think Twitter strictly enforces it's ToS in regards to harassment, you haven't been paying attention to Twitter. There's practically a running joke of people getting responses from Twitter reports of harassing behavior where death threats are coupled with a message that says "We have determined this is not in violation of Twitter's policies."

By their own admission Twitter has done a shameful job at dealing with harassment, and it remains a virtually open platform for hate and attacks. Seeing Twitter actually do something to discourage harassment would be great, but even that would still do nothing to address the hateful, cancerous mentality that exists in gaming culture. As annoying as the Goober Grumps have been since coming under a specific banner, it's still just a manifestation of the intolerance and bigotry and hate that's been with us long before then.

 

[Brakke]

Banning people for being members of an organization created literally to harass and threaten people is not akin to banning people who are from an organization that has people who may harass or threaten people.

But GamerGate are not an organization. It's not like people who comment on KiA are paying monthly dues or attending steering committee meetings... What constitutes "membership"? What's the test here?

 

[Brinbe]

Seems like a couple if indie devs have "cancelled" their eshop titles in protest of this. What a mess.

Good, I hope more follow suit. If Nintendo want to react this way, Devs/Consumers can/will react accordingly too.

 

[SneakersSO]

Banning people for being members of an organization created literally to harass and threaten people is not akin to banning people who are from an organization that has people who may harass or threaten people.

1. GG isn't an organization. And while you feel they exist solely & explicitly to harass and threaten people, they feel the things they discuss are of merit, and they would have zero issues having a judge see that if a discrimination suit would ever to go to court. Heck, if the political right-wing of the US, an institution that has plagued minorities for decades, have gotten away with it without being labelled a hate group, and get sided with regularly in courtrooms, what makes you think GG, which is often called the right-wing of the social media culture wars, wouldn't be able to?

2. There is no way you can say with zero doubt of error that ALL of GG has participated in the abhorrent behavior that many of them have. To be clear, i'm not sticking up for GG here - just saying that a blanket ban on a group of people would never go down as easily as you make it seem, and here are the reasons why.

 

[antonz]

But GamerGate are not an organization. It's not like people who comment on KiA are paying monthly dues or attending steering committee meetings... What constitutes "membership"? What's the test here?

Espousing their talking points is a pretty clear indicator of their ideological leaning.

 

[jonno394]

Good, I hope more follow suit. If Nintendo want to react this way, Devs/Consumers can/will react accordingly too.

React what way? Nintendo have already said she was fired due to the nature of her second job, so people should boycott for a company following their disciplinary process?

 

[DealWithIt]

While it doesn't take a genius to see why Nintendo would choose to fire her, that doesn't make it a good decision and it certainly doesn't change the fact that the circumstances that led to it are ugly.

I can't shake the feeling that none of this would've happened if she wasn't a woman, in a visible place in the gaming industry. She is outspoken, she is pretty, she is liberal and she's at a company that "censors" Japanese video games. Despite the fact that I would generally describe her as anti-censorship, she's an obvious target and the forces of evil got ugly on her quick.

To me, no amount of saying that she said "things she shouldn't say on Twitter," or complaining about a second job will change the fact that she got axed in response to a brutal and vile harassment campaign. No amount of "Nintendo was well within its right to fire her" will make this acceptable. Nintendo gave a win to the most aggressive and repugnant portion of its user base. I'm not sure how quickly that damage can be undone. I'm not sure how much I can forgive them for that.

 

[TheBaldEmperor]

Good, I hope more follow suit. If Nintendo want to react this way, Devs/Consumers can/will react accordingly too.

Come on. Unless you know what her second job under a fake name was I'm not sure how you can say this.

 

[SneakersSO]

I've had a person circumvent a block and for the longest time retweet everything I said, while gloating about it on his timeline. Even as the TOS is pretty clear that this would constitute harassment, I got nothing but the same canned response that a lot of other clear harassment receives. Twitter is really, really bad about this kind of shit.

I'm NEVER going to argue that what we have is perfect nor ideal. Its not. Better tools and manpower is the only way Twitter stands a chance at being able to properly vet & deal with the harassment issue it faces. They could easily drive themselves into bankruptcy trying to hire the manpower required to tackle the sizable userbase they have that i'm sure is constantly reporting stuff.

The fact is, we just don't have any sort of automated tool that could help with this sort of reporting situation. Community management is an absolute cluster-fuck in all online spaces. The most you can try to do is segregate ideological opponents into spheres of influence only they can see, and hope that mitigates negative interactions between the opposing parties.

So yes, Twitter is terrible about this. But its not like their choosing to be bad about this. There just isn't a whole lot they can do with what they have available at their disposal.

 

[Vinland]

Because she was specifically targeted for her position in the company, as a scapegoat to take the blame for the perceived censorship of Nintendo games. And rather than refuting their attacks or doing anything to defend their own, Nintendo let her deal with it alone. She was attacked because people were mad about anime titties, and being a woman working at Treehouse surely it must be her fault.

I am not saying that didn't happen but is that speculation or irrefutable fact based on evidence? I didn't glean that from the info in the OP. Sure I get that someone got her fired but you make it sound like a tactical strike, not a grumpy sociopath of the likes get people swatted or domed cause they can't take someone else being happy in their own skin.

 

[Yoshi]

Good, I hope more follow suit. If Nintendo want to react this way, Devs/Consumers can/will react accordingly too.

Well, I won't and I doubt many Indie deve will do this. Their corporate policy still is their sole discretion and as much as I would not want any of my partners (in this case: Nintendo) to tell me how to run my business, it is not my business to tell them how to run theirs. I'm not happy that Rapp was let go, but Nintendo seems to be within their right here, it's at least consensual between her and Nintendo that she did have a secret second job, which most companies would not accept.

 

[Chichikov]

She sure is airing a lot of dirty laundry since the termination. That could be really bad for her; if she's got a strict NDA then it could be lawsuit. Also, large companies really tend to avoid people and situations like this so she may end up limited to career options in the indie scene for the next couple of years.

I don't know what they make people who work there sign, but there is no way such NDA if required is enforceable.
The right to discuss working conditions is explicitly protected by the NLRA and the National Labor Relations Board ruled that this right extend to social media.

Now of course, the US court system being what it is, the side with the deeper pocket can usually bleed the poorer one dry, but legally she should be protected.

I seriously doubt Nintendo would go after her though, that would achieve nothing but bad publicity and a Streisand effect.

 

[element]

They could have offered her the opportunity to quit the second job and face some internal discipline or something, but they opted to terminate, and given the current environment, it's hard to disentangle that decision from GG.

Realistically from a company perspective you best have put someone on a verbal and official warning. Since she even admits that she has previous issue starting pretty much the month she started at Nintendo, I'd find it shocking that if Nintendo didn't offer her some plan to remain employed. Firing someone typically happened when all options have been exhausted.

I don't know what they make people who work there sign, but there is no way such NDA if required is enforceable.
The right to discuss working conditions is explicitly protected by the NLRA and the National Labor Relations Board ruled that this right extend to social media.

Actually if she signed a separation agreement that is tired to a severance package, that typically has NDA on both sides to prevent the employee and employer from damaging either party. If she breaks that, they could go after the severance package, and financial damages if large enough.

 

[Corpekata]

She won't face a lawsuit, it's not like she's throwing a party featuring Pokemon characters or anything.

Spoiler

Yes I know Nintendo does not equal TPC.

 

[Orca]

The problem with this boycotts/stance is that in many cases it ends as the "it thing". The "cool thing to do".

If it was about boycotting companies for not taking stances in similar situations. Ubisoft, EA, Bioware would've been through the same years ago when employees even had to quit because of the harassment. Yet things are actually worse.

So people are going to boycott one company out of many that have done and continue doing the same.

And even if the boycotts do work for Nintendo and they issue a huge PR response and start creating movements and everything what about the others?

Jennifer Hepler had to quit Bioware because of the harassment and threats towards her family in 2013. Yet Dragon Age Inquisition and the upcoming Mass Effect are the thing to talk about.

Jade Raymond went through a lot of things while at Ubisoft during Assassin's Creed. Yet most were worried at Ubisoft kiling the franchise.

This IS a serious situation that should be handled accordingly and not by selective boycotts to Nintendo while playing on Sony/Microsoft devices games from EA/Ubisoft/etc. that also "did nothing" for their employees.

Except those companies DID act on their employee's behalf, strongly condemning the actions taken against them. There's a HUGE difference between employees receiving support and still choosing to resign or move on and that employee being fired.

 

[charlequin]

Better, but we're not there yet. I don't care for your or Tron's generalizations of what GG is

I am not about to give any time to your weird and suspicious nitpicking of my accurate and factually supported generalization about Gamergate.

Lame analogy time - Imagine a bully revealing to a couple of parents that their daughter skipped school. The parents are only parents to the girl, so they punish her and the bully walks away unscathed. While the bully is a horrible person, the parents can't do anything to the bully because they are not his parents and he technically didn't do anything but tell on the girl. Everyone knows the bully is an asshole and everyone hates him, but he gets away with it because he doesn't live with his parents and being an asshole isn't against the law.

I actually agree that this is a good analogy, it's just that it's a good analogy by virtue of comparing to another situation in which authority figures have failed in their responsibility to push towards a just outcome because they're too busy looking out for their own narrowly-defined interests.

but if there is no rule breaking no one gets fired.

I think it's important to take a close look at this framing -- "rule breaking." There are some things that employees can do which are very straightforwardly violations of work policy and should result in discipline -- hitting another employee, leaking secrets to a competitor, taking a dump in the office pool, sexually harassing people in the office. These things aren't truly controversial or ambiguous, if the facts of the events that occurred are known -- they're pretty straightforward.

Many other policies, however, are much less clearcut. When someone "spends too much time slacking," or says something off the clock that "doesn't properly reflect the company's values," or any number of other such things, the degree to which it's a real offense is very subjective. If you ever look at the history of HR actions at a big company, you'll see things like this being used in wildly different ways -- sometimes to get rid of someone other staff don't like, sometimes to keep the boss's nephew out of trouble, sometimes because of national politics or office politics or just an HR person in a bad mood.

The point is: given the type of offense we're talking about, most possible moonlighting jobs that could violate it are going to fall into this ambiguous area, not into a realm of instant termination offenses. The very fact that the HR response is to escalate that to termination is, in and of itself, at some level a statement of the company's views of the harassment campaign and the public image effect thereof.

 

[kiryogi]

I don't know what they make people who work there sign, but there is no way such NDA if required is enforceable.
The right to discuss working conditions is explicitly protected by the NLRA and the National Labor Relations Board ruled that this right extend to social media.

Now of course, the US court system being what it is, the side with the deeper pocket can usually bleed the poorer one dry, but legally she should be protected.

I seriously doubt Nintendo would go after her though, that would achieve nothing but bad publicity and a Streisand effect.

Only under the pretense of concerted activity. Of which I doubt she was trying to organize.

 

[A Link to the Past]

1. GG isn't an organization. And while you feel they exist solely & explicitly to harass and threaten people, they feel the things they discuss are of merit, and they would have zero issues having a judge see that if a discrimination suit would ever to go to court. Heck, if the political right-wing of the US, an institution that has plagued minorities for decades, have gotten away with it without being labelled a hate group, and get sided with regularly in courtrooms, what makes you think GG, which is often called the right-wing of the social media culture wars, wouldn't be able to?

2. There is no way you can say with zero doubt of error that ALL of GG has participated in the abhorrent behavior that many of them have. To be clear, i'm not sticking up for GG here - just saying that a blanket ban on a group of people would never go down as easily as you make it seem, and here are the reasons why.

While a ban is somewhat extreme, my point is that ultimately, considering oneself a member of GamerGate is in and of itself unacceptable. GamerGate has never been an acceptable organization, only ever existing for the sake of harassment. They've not accomplished thing one in terms of their stated goal, and have actually tried to get people to kill themselves. Like, not even flippantly telling someone to kill themselves - actual "operations" where people in GamerGate plotted (and in fact succeeded) in jamming a trans suicide hotline, and where people in GamerGate plotted to befriend trans people for the sake of eventually pushing them to suicide. GamerGate is rotten to its core, and it may suck for the ignorant person, but ignorance at this point can't be an excuse.

 

[lifa-cobex]

Someone wanna fill me in on why GamerGate are the monsters to point the finger at?

It Looks pretty self evident on why she was sacked.
Given that Nintendo is the most family friendly gaming company going and she's posting shit like that!?

I don't think many company's will go near her with a ten foot barge pole.

 

[sir_kevith]

So working at Nintendo is like every other corporate job Ive worked where you can't express yourself and it slowly wears you down.

I'm sure she'll find a better fit somewhere.

 

[Vinland]

That's an impressive fantasy you've spun

Your fantasy not mine.

Ps Facebook already attempts to tie an account to a real person and if their bot detects to accounts with like names on a similar ip they will disable one and ask for your state ID to verify you are unique. So.....

 

[A Link to the Past]

Someone wanna fill me in on why GamerGate are the monsters to point the finger at?

It Looks pretty self evident on why she was sacked.
Given that Nintendo is the most family friendly gaming company going and she's posting shit like that!?

I don't think many company's will go near her with a ten foot barge pole.

What is she posting that is so unacceptable?

Your fantasy not mine.

Ps Facebook already attempts to tie an account to a real person and if their bot detects to accounts with like names on a similar ip they will disable one and ask for your state ID to verify you are unique. So.....

Oh, didn't realize I hacked your account lol.

Is it a difficult task to identify accounts operated by GamerGate supporters? Sure, probably. Is it inherently wrong to ban people for being a GamerGate supporter? Given what they've done, especially with their Twitter accounts, I'd reckon not.

 

[RyuKanSan]

Just want to add my two cents if I may,

While I am disappointed with Nintendo's response Rapps GG fiasco, I cannot say I'm surprised. I still love Nintendo, will continue to buy their products, because let's face it, I live in America, have been raised in a video game culture and capitalists economy and their products are really good. We still buy loads of brand name merchandise knowing the horror stories behind child labor and the like, and because we've been indoctrinated on a subconscious level, we'll continue to do so.

I want to give to the benefit of the doubt to Nintendo, and if the same thing happened to a Microsoft or Sony employee I'd give them the same benefit of the doubt that on the surface nothing is happening, but underneath they're doing something. Taking measures and learning lessons from this in case a situation like this arises again, and if history is any indication most likely will. But again I'm not surprised that they haven't said anything or essentially "fought back" against it. In my own personal view, I've never seen a company in corporate American society to back up an employee and take a political stance on any hot topic issue that undercuts their bottom line.

I believe the issue is us. We as not as just the gaming community but as people to stand up en masse and collectively do something against the bigotry and etc that's running rampant within the industry. We are the majority here not the minority. To expect huge business conglomerates to stand up for the little guys/girls I believe is taking the responsibility off us and putting it solely on them. Time and time again the community at large has come together to put a stop to things, the biggest example coming to mind is when Microsoft first announced the X1 and the whole no used games thing. Be mad at Nintendo for not sticking up for their employee but ultimately ask yourself what are you going to do now with this newfound awareness of prevalent issues within a community you're an active participant in.

We created this industry to be what it is. A big lesson for me in this is now asking what I can do as a male who plays video games to make the not just the industry but the perception of women in the industry and women in general who just like playing video games a safer environment and practice. I'm aware many people will discredit my post based off the first paragraph, but hey I'm human and just because I continue to buy Nintendo products doesn't mean I can't use the microphone, as the Kotaku guy, Kelpek (think I spelled his name right) in ways to address the heart of the issue which is in my view, the elimination of these kinds of things.

 

[Hard]

I would say technically you're not wrong. But when those ideals are most often attached to women and feminist issues, or other issues of representation, then the overlap between groups and ideals seems to me to be mainly a distinction of semantics.

The backlash is because she is a woman who holds a certain point of view. If you seek perspectives of men who have been targets of GG, even the most prominent ones will likely tell you that men get away with saying just as "SJW" of things without getting a GG hatemob after them than women do.

A backlash against ideals... until they harass someone with a given justification of that person being against the same ideals that they are against.

Whatever ideals GamerGate possesses are demonstrably less important than ensuring the ongoing harassment of women. You could frame it as them holding the ideal that women do not belong in the video gaming industry and thus they hold the ideal that women in gaming should always be harassed - but saying that someone holds an ideal of harassing others because of their gender is the same as saying that they harass others because of their gender.

Correlation doesn't imply causation. Yes, There is a strong correlation of those who get harassed by GG and what their gender is. However, one can't just make the jump between the two and conclude that a causes b, so a causes c. Then we could assume that every notable person in the video game industry that has anti-GG views and gets harassed in some form will be female.

GG is a backlash against progressivism in video games, with such topics including cultural diversification, censorship, feminism/sexism (especially), and how they are influencing video games today. I think it's reasonable to believe that the average person with strong feminist/sexist views in the gaming industry is most likely female. In line with my previous post, as GG is against those ideals previously stated, they're subsequently against the people that supposedly propagate those ideals, who happen to be most likely female. Yes, it may be semantics, but saying that this is a movement targeted specifically at women in the video game industry is stretching the cord a bit too far.

Spoiler

This is not a justification for GG's actions. I'm trying to defend my reasoning of what GG is and what are its motives and goals, as illustrated in post #512. Please don't put words in my mouth when replying.

 

[antonz]

There is no gentle cuddly version of GamerGate hidden within gamergate. People need to stop trying to act like there is some noble cause somewhere.

 

[jonno394]

Just a hypothetical for people, what if the second job was not a GG tip off. What if another employee accidentally stumbled across the job and informed a supervisor? Is boycotting Nintendo the answer then?

Yes, she may have been the target of a campaign, but that does not mean said campaign is why she was fired.

 

[SneakersSO]

While a ban is somewhat extreme, my point is that ultimately, considering oneself a member of GamerGate is in and of itself unacceptable. GamerGate has never been an acceptable organization, only ever existing for the sake of harassment. They've not accomplished thing one in terms of their stated goal, and have actually tried to get people to kill themselves. Like, not even flippantly telling someone to kill themselves - actual "operations" where people in GamerGate plotted (and in fact succeeded) in jamming a trans suicide hotline, and where people in GamerGate plotted to befriend trans people for the sake of eventually pushing them to suicide. GamerGate is rotten to its core, and it may suck for the ignorant person, but ignorance at this point can't be an excuse.

I'm sure that you will find people within GG who aren't ignorant of their group's badside, who do not agree with the actions they have seen those people do, and who want to stand for their stated mission statements or whatever the fuck they want to accomplish or whatever ideological leanings they subscribe to.

We can find analogous situations to what you're suggesting in a multitude of different contexts. We all hate them. The political rupture they've caused within the industry is one that likely won't ever go away, not as long as we keep political conversation within the gaming community.

And now that our discussion has gotten to this point, and how its basically gone in circles, can you see why a company like Nintendo & other publishers want to stay out of this as much as possible? Cause there is no answer they can pursue. No option that will fix this. Nothing they can do or say that will relieve this political situation, and not make them a target - either by GG or by GG's ideological opponent. No one wins.

 

[fernoca]

Except those companies DID act on their employee's behalf, strongly condemning the actions taken against them. There's a HUGE difference between employees receiving support and still choosing to resign or move on and that employee being fired.

But we don't know if Nintendo did. Maybe they did ,maybe did mothing. She always described Nintendo as a safe place. Openly saying anything will result on the same as even today's message did: seen as a canned PR response to throw a topic under the rug.

A problem and part of this situation is that Nintendo always remains silent. Which sucks from an outside perspective. No matter what. Like with the yearly "green companies" that they get a 0 because they don't talk about it.

Alison has been the target of this threats before she worked at Nintendo even. And she admitted that things got worse in the last months to the point ahe had to contact authorities and advise her family.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Nathan Grayson is a video games journalist.

Zoe Quinn is a video game developer.

GamerGate's ideology, allegedly, is that they care about ethics in games journalism, and generally focus on that (many GG members used that excuse to justify why they did not go after Warner Bros. over their Shadows of Mordor YouTube fiasco).

Zoe Quinn is one of the most mentioned people in the GamerGate hashtag - I think last year she had like 20,000 more mentions than Nathan Grayson. Meanwhile, dozens upon dozens of women, many of them also not journalists, received far more attention than Nathan Grayson ever did.

It's really weird how staunch you are about defending the idea that GamerGate's goals are to harass women

I'm sure that you will find people within GG who aren't ignorant of their group's badside, who do not agree with the actions they have seen those people do, and who want to stand for their stated mission statements or whatever the fuck they want to accomplish or whatever ideological leanings they subscribe to.

We can find analogous situations to what you're suggesting in a multitude of different contexts. We all hate them. The political rupture they've caused within the industry is one that likely won't ever go away, not as long as we keep political conversation within the gaming community.

And now that our discussion has gotten to this point, and how its basically gone in circles, can you see why a company like Nintendo & other publishers want to stay out of this as much as possible? Cause there is no answer they can pursue. No option that will fix this. Nothing they can do or say that will relieve this political situation, and not make them a target - either by GG or by GG's ideological opponent. No one wins.

First off, no. I shall say it again and again, the simile to GG isn't Republicans, it's KKK. You don't just join the KKK and say "well I don't approve of their tactics, but I just think that white people get a bad wrap." You take on the baggage that goes along with being in the KKK. And I'll say now, it's not an unfair comparison, not after the shit that GG has done against members of the LGBT community.

Secondly, there is absolutely something that can be done, and Nintendo hasn't nearly done it. Simply offering the common sense answer that they do not condone harassment (because if they did that'd be pretty fuckin' awful am I right) is not enough - Nintendo MUST make a hard, clear stance that GamerGate members are bad people, and that they are not the kind of customers that they care to serve. Because if they can't do that much, GamerGate is going to keep at it, finding any ways they can find to get one employee fired, and the next, and the next, and...

 

[Corpekata]

Just a hypothetical for people, what if the second job was not a GG tip off. What if another employee accidentally stumbled across the job and informed a supervisor? Is boycotting Nintendo the answer then?

Yes, she may have been the target of a campaign, but that does not mean said campaign is why she was fired.

Is her second job a hitman?

 

[jonno394]

Is her second job a hitman?

It could be anything, but I doubt that

 

[lifa-cobex]

What is she posting that is so unacceptable?

Dancing around the discussion of the age on consent.
I remember something about her tweeting on not hating prostitutes, boobs and guys who like kids?

 

[Jelly Rajah]

October of 2011. About 5 years ago. So basically standard fare for an undergraduate student thinking they know the answers. If this were consistent behavior throughout the years, then you'd have a point. But I'd guarantee you that I could find something baffling you said 5 years ago or in your college days. And, like she says, she's trying to link it to her thesis which is on the subject.

Did you read the article in question (it's not very long)? I tried my hardest to give her the benefit of the doubt and see if the man in question was being unfairly judged somehow, but there was nothing there to indicate any wrongdoing by those who prosecuted him. I'm more baffled than anything else to be honest.

A central California man has been arrested for possession of child pornography, thanks to a tip from burglars who robbed the man's property, authorities said.

Last month, a juvenile and a 19-year-old illegally accessed the property of Kraig Stockard, 54, of Delhi, California, according to a statement from Deputy Tom MacKenzie of the Merced County Sheriff's Department. They broke into Stockard's barn and stole about 50 CDs they believed were blank.

Stockard filed a police report on the incident on September 12, according to MacKenzie.

But the young people who stole the CDs were in for a surprise. When they began putting the discs into their computer, they discovered that some of them contained pornographic images of children, the statement said.
Despite having obtained the CDs under decidedly shady circumstances, the pair decided to report Stockard to the police.

A search warrant was served and three more computers and three laptops were taken from Stockard's home, along with several external hard drives. Police said there were thousands of pictures and movies on the CDs -- more than 30 of the 50 discs had child pornography on them.

Investigators said Stockard has been downloading indecent images of children since 2004. He has admitted possessing the pornography on the CDs but has refused to say whether there is pornography on the computers, they said. Stockard was booked for possession of child pornography and posted $25,000 bail.
The two burglar suspects who reported Stockard have not been arrested.
Their case has been sent to the Merced County District Attorney's Office for review. When reached for comment, a press officer told CNN the office could not comment on the case because one of the informants in question is a juvenile.

How can you read that and say that there's a problem somewhere, let alone be pissed off by it?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Dancing around the discussion of the age on consent.
I remember something about her tweeting on not hating prostitutes, boobs and guys who like kids?

Why should you hate prostitutes?? It's not like they're doing horrible crimes. The only reasons prostitution is illegal are:

1. Public safety
2. Moral standards

#1. does not stand because criminalization of prostitution doesn't make anyone safer - it makes STDs more common, it puts clients and prostitutes at greater risk, and it creates a cycle of poverty. #2. is just whatever, who cares